Are you saying that the "bounty" is a bluff? If it is, do you think that everyone in the Black community who might otherwise be "motivated" will recognize it as such?
Please pardon me for being naive. Serious questions.
I'd be shocked if you could get cab fare if you showed up at Shabazz' front door with Zimmerman's head in a ziploc bag. It's hyperbole, inflammatory rhetoric designed to get their faces on TV, make them feel relevant in a political and sociological environment that has left them behind and get easily-hyped up people talking about an antiquated political movement again.............You guys are doing it, aren't you?
It's like going to a Stones' concert and watching Jagger sing about being a "Street Fighting Man" or The Who talking about dying before they get old. That ship has left the dock already.
As far as "everyone" in the Black community is concerned, I can't speak for everybody. But we have our share of racist nutjobs as do you (e.g. "Keep America American.....Join the Klu Klux Klan!") so I can't say that one of them wouldn't theoretically do something incredibly stupid and spend the rest of his natural life with his ass behind bars. There are 35 million Black people in America and no one person speaks for all of us....not Jesse, not Sharpton (who I have yet to hear call for the death of George Zimmerman, BTW) and CERTAINLY not the "New Black Panther Party." We're just as heterogeneous as everyone else. Is there any one man who speaks for the whole of the White community?
Think beyond the bubble for a second. How would someone collect on the bounty without immediately becoming a matter of interest to LEO? This isn't the inner-city version of Weekend at Bernie's, after all. Also, whoever collected it certainly wouldn't be the "hero to the Black diaspora" that some of you guys would like to think. If you've been listening closely (or really at all), you would've noticed the overwhelming majority of the statements made have been for Zimmerman's arrest and trial, not his head on a spike.
The obvious sarcasm isn't directed at you, Raydar. I respect you too much for that. But, as I said, some aspects of this conversation have become so absurd......pardon my saying so but now it's simply a bunch of predominately White guys telling each other what Black people think.....or would like to THINK we think.
Nice work if you can get it.
Again.....as you were, Gentlemen.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 03-28-2012).]
That is why I said in "Florida, not sure, but we will just have to see how this all plays out in the long run."
As for my instructor knowing the self defense laws in Florida better then the Florida DA, I'm going out on a limb and say more then likely. For what it is worth, my instructor, Tim Oliver along with Kevin Jamison, a lawer from Kansas City wrote the paperwork up for the Missouri laws for conceal carry that had to go through the senate. This after reviewing the current laws in other states and was 13 years in the making. So yes, I will stick with he knows what the Hell he is talking about.
If what your instructor told you is true then he is mistaken on a number of grounds. First he is wrong about using deadly force to defend another person as Bullet bolded.
Also he is wrong when it comes to defending yourself with deadly for even if you initiated the encounter:
quote
(1) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his or her use of force is nevertheless justifiable provided:
(a) He or she has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened use of unlawful force; or
That bold part above is common to all of the self defense laws that I have seen. It is specific to the Zimmerman case because even if Zimmerman initiated the encounter, he clearly communicated his withdrawal when he was pinned and calling for help.
Your instructor is wrong on all accounts.
[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 03-28-2012).]
Thought I'd jump back in here just for a second...
All this talk about the political/community might and supposed wealth of the "New Black Panther Party" is absurd.
I mean REALLY absurd.
Since the deaths of Fred Hampton in 1969 and finally Huey P. Newton in 1989, you could probably fit all of today's Black Panthers (new OR old for that matter) in a Chrysler minivan and I can't think of anyone stupid enough to fund a few Black guys in military garb to the tune of $1K.....much less $10K or 1 MIL....not in this day and age. A lot of people who grew up in the community during that time giggled when they saw the tape of the same two guys in front of the polling place in Philly (which was in a predominately minority public housing development, BTW....I can assure you....Black folks weren't intimidated by them in the least) played over and over again while some talking head babbled on about the "vast" number of men that comprised the "New Black Panthers."
Hell, Chaka Khan used to distribute newsletters for the Black Panthers when she was 15......she's 58 now....and she'd be the 1st to tell you that movement died in the early 80's. US Congressman Bobby Rush WAS a Black Panther in the 60's and I doubt HE would even believe the hype. The plain and simple fact is "assimilation overtook revolution" a long time ago, fellas...regardless of the guys you see on Fox.
Okay, pardon the interruption........carry on.
I've heard that the New Black Panthers are comparable to the Westboro nuts and are using this youngsters killing as a way to garner attention similar to how the Westboro gang uses funerals.
Saw a clip of Anderson Cooper interviewing this group and making a mockery of them the other night.
I'd rather concentrate on what actually happened the night T. Martin was gunned down and hopefully the truth will come out, no matter what it might be.
As I and others have said before until those 5 witnesses statements are posted somewhere we are at the mercy of the media reports. And those 5 witnesses are hiding out just like Zimmerman for good reasons. Mob rule is no way to do anything in this case or any case, we have a legal system and it is slow so wait for it to work before we have a lynching because some of extremists on both sides.
I suppose it's a case of, as it is in any cross-section, the loudest and most off-the-wall "participants" getting all the attention. (And by God... it worked!)
I'm going back into "lurk" mode, here.
Take care.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-28-2012).]
i haven't thoroughly read all 4 pages of intervening posts (i'm just not obsessed by this story, or the underlying subtexts),
but just say, for the sake of argument...
sure, you smoke a little pot. you get the munchies, go to the fridge, nothing looks good. so you go out to the quick mart and pick up some junk food, but on the way home you see someone following you in the dark. you cut a few corners hoping to evade, to no avail, the guy keeps closing. (we don't know at what point the gun comes out)... what would you do?
i have a great deal of respect for law enforcement. you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. i have friends who are cops. i've also personally experienced cops lying, roughing people up because they could and saying BS for effect on the tapes. we need to wait to see what all the witnesses have to say.
Thought I'd jump back in here just for a second...
All this talk about the political/community might and supposed wealth of the "New Black Panther Party" is absurd.
I mean REALLY absurd.
You make good points, but it doesn't matter if they can pay the bounty or if they're a million men strong or it's just 1 guy. What matters is if the empty rhetoric convinces someone to kill Zimmerman for the bounty.
I've heard that the New Black Panthers are comparable to the Westboro nuts and are using this youngsters killing as a way to garner attention similar to how the Westboro gang uses funerals.
That is probably correct. Imagine the response if Westboro put a $1 Million bounty for the capture of Al Sharpton, Dead or Alive. (or any other person of color currently in the news)
You make good points, but it doesn't matter if they can pay the bounty or if they're a million men strong or it's just 1 guy. What matters is if the empty rhetoric convinces someone to kill Zimmerman for the bounty.
Is that a fair statement?
Yeah, that's completely fair...it's kind of a play on the H.L Mencken quote "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
Not in my community....and, respectfully, not in yours either IMO.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 03-28-2012).]
That is probably correct. Imagine the response if Westboro put a $1 Million bounty for the capture of Al Sharpton, Dead or Alive. (or any other person of color currently in the news)
The problem wouldn't be if they offered the bounty. The problem would be if it were treated with the same lackadaisical attitude as this present bounty has been.
That is probably correct. Imagine the response if Westboro put a $1 Million bounty for the capture of Al Sharpton, Dead or Alive. (or any other person of color currently in the news)
I haven't ever thought of WBC as being racists, they seem to hate everyone equally. But if they can get away with the vile things they say every day, do you really think they couldn't get away with flapping their beaks about bounties. I get why you are offended, but it's a very poor example.
I haven't ever thought of WBC as being racists, they seem to hate everyone equally. But if they can get away with the vile things they say every day, do you really think they couldn't get away with flapping their beaks about bounties. I get why you are offended, but it's a very poor example.
Well, not so much I don't think. Asserting one's 1st Amendment rights to free speech is one thing, even if it is 100% offensive. But from what I understand, putting out a contract on someone is conspiracy to commit murder. And given they're doing it nationally I would imagine there are some federal mandates to be considered. Why every last one of them isn't already in jail is a mystery to me.
I haven't ever thought of WBC as being racists, they seem to hate everyone equally. But if they can get away with the vile things they say every day, do you really think they couldn't get away with flapping their beaks about bounties. I get why you are offended, but it's a very poor example.
I'm not offended, per se, but I can see it inciting violence. WBC is a poor example of just about anything. It was offered as a follow-up to newf's comparison of them to the New Black Panthers. I draw a distinction between a whack job screaming "You're going to hell!" and a whack job screaming "I'll pay you to capture this person - dead or alive."
I'm posting this from another site, as it is good information, with corroborating links to the sources.
quote
I think once you see the facts, they are clear.
The person heard screaming for his life was George Zimmerman. FACT
He was wearing a RED sweatshirt. Two eyewitnesses reported that the person screaming for their life was MAN wearing a RED top. And that he was being assaulted. FACT
According to the ONLY eyewitness who saw the entire incident said the person who was wearing a GRAY hoodie was the ATTACKER. The man in RED was the victim.
The "Stand your Ground" law allows people to protect themselves from bodily harm. So here are the facts. IF ANYONE CAN DISPUTE ANY FACT BELOW, PLEASE TRY...
1. Sanford, FL neighborhood has had a rash of burglaries. According to recent statistics, a Sanford resident is almost twice as likely to be a victim of theft/burglary as the rest of the state.
Source/(s): News story, Property crime stats, and Sanford Burglary reports
5. On the 911 call, Zimmerman when first asked wasn't sure the race of the person, then as the person started walking to him; he indicated that the person was black.
Source/(s): (911 call, tape 1 – George Zimmerman’s call)
7. On one of the 911 calls, for 45 seconds a person is heard screaming "help" over and over, until the shot was fired. From the sounds of the screams, it sounds like the person is being attacked.
9. Another eye witness said "The guy on the bottom, who had a RED sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," . He also said that the person in the gray hoodie was the attacker, going after the man in red. This witness didn't know either party.
Source/(s): (Original News report on 2/27/2012, before the Race baiters got involved.)
11. When police arrive seconds later, they find George Zimmerman with a bloody face, a broken nose, lacerations on the back of his head, and grass stains on his back. Zimmerman was given first aide at the scene.
15. About 12 hours later, Police identified the body as Trayvon Martin, after his father contacted them. He thought that Trayvon may have been arrested because he had not returned to his house.
16. Trayvon Martin, 17, was 6'3", did NOT live in the Sanford neighborhood, he lives in Miami. He was visiting his father, who lived at his girlfriend’s condo. George Zimmerman is 5'9' and is a homeowner within the development.
17. Trayvon had been suspended from his Miami High School for 10 days for undisclosed reasons at this point. According to Trayvon’s school’s policies, to be suspended for 10 days, a SERIOUS violation must have occurred. See page 24 and 25 for that list.
Source/(s): News story and Miami-Dade student handbook
Originally posted by twofatguys I know this game, it's childish and gets old.
I'll be more than happy to discuss this with you if you can keep it to a discussion, and not a friggin novel I have to read to reply.
Brad
So I try to have a real discussion with you by asking some valid questions and stating some facts. You then decide to that this is a game and call me childish. You can't even bring yourself to read my "novel" after having typed one yourself, so you just give up? Who is acting childish now? You are making allegations with no facts to support them. I live here in Florida and this news story is the top story all day long. If you need to get some facts look up a local news source. Here are a couple. http://www.clickorlando.com/ http://www.wesh.com/trayvon...-coverage/index.html You will find links to the latest coverage, timeline, who's who, and overview of the story in the second link. You won't get the hand picked parts of the story the national media is spinning and you can read about the impact this story is having locally because of the way outsiders are spinning it. http://www.wesh.com/trayvon...30783338/detail.html http://www.wesh.com/trayvon...30783110/detail.html http://www.wesh.com/news/30698714/detail.html The local 6 news this morning reported that he police interviewed six witnesses, but no one actually saw the confrontation begin or the shooting.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-28-2012).]
Transcript of the police call Zimmerman made. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/326700/full-transcript-zimmerman.pdf
quote
Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. … Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring… Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area… Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses. Dispatcher: OK… Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me. Dispatcher: OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111? Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse… Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now? Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me. Dispatcher: OK. Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male. Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks? Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens. Dispatcher: Late teens ok. Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is. Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here? Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else. Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse. Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse? Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** he's running. Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running? Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards? Zimmerman: The back entrance…****ing [unintelligible] Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that. Zimmerman: Ok Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name? Zimmerman: George…He ran. Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name? Zimmerman: Zimmerman Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from? Zimmerman: [redacted by Mother Jones] Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there? Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at? Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck...[unintelligible] Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of? Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address. Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area? Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible] Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number? Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is. Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then? Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine. Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay? Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem. Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it? Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted by Mother Jones] Zimmerman: Yeah you got it. Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when you’re in the area. Zimmerman: Thanks. Dispatcher: You’re welcome.
It sounds to me like he was telling the police that he would meet them by his truck and had agreed not to follow Martin. Zimmerman also had a habit of calling 911 on Black suspects. http://www.dailykos.com/sto...immerman-to-Call-911
quote
On April 22, 2011, Zimmerman called to report a black male about “7-9” years old, four feet tall, with a “skinny build” and short black hair. There is no indication in the police report of the reason for Zimmerman’s suspicion of the boy. On Aug. 3 of last year, Zimmerman reported a black male who he believed was “involved in recent” burglaries in the neighborhood.
And on Oct. 1 he reported two black male suspects “20-30” years old, in a white Chevrolet Impala. He told police he did “not recognize” the men or their vehicle and that he was concerned because of the recent burglaries.
Despite the frequency of his calls to the police, Zimmerman had only become a member of the neighborhood watch in September 2011. In fact, Twin Lakes’ neighborhood watch itself did not exist before then, according to Wendy Dorival, volunteer coordinator for the Sanford Police Department.
George Zimmerman son of judge with sealed closed arrest record in Fla. 27 Mar 2012 'Now we know why George Zimmerman didn't get arrested... No Words... According to court records, George Zimmerman is the son of retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert J Zimmerman, his mother Gladys Zimmerman is a court clerk... He has three closed arrests: 7/18/05 for resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer div 10... 8/9/05 for domestic violence div 44... And again on 8/10/05, domestic violence div 46 ***'
The father of George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin’s murderer, is retired Orange County Magistrate Judge, Robert Zimmerman. As stated in a previous article, “Who Is George Zimmerman“, we detailed his criminal history of domestic violence arrests and resisting an officer with violence. The arrest for resisting an officer with violence is a felony charge. This case was closed.
See ZIMMERMAN ARREST RECORD via RollingOut.com
Robert Zimmerman has been at the forefront leading the PR campaign to polish George Zimmerman’s image from the start, even going so far as to write a letter to the Orlando Sentinel defending his son. George’s mother, Gladys Zimmerman is reportedly a court clerk.
There is also new evidence that the original investigating arresting officer for the Trayvon Martin shooting wanted Zimmerman arrested, but was instructed by Norman Wolfinger “not to press charges against Zimmerman.” At the time of Trayvon Martin’s killing, Wolfinger was head of the State Attorney’s office. He has convenient stepped down from the investigation.
Robert Zimmerman’s influence as a former Judge has far-reaching tentacles. It seems he may have a larger role in the injustice now being witnessed by the family and advocates of deceased Trayvon Martin. The Zimmermans’ influence with the Judicial system in the state of Florida may be circumventing due process and shielding George from prosecution…as appears to have been the case in the past.
Something is rotten in the state of Florida.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-28-2012).]
So I try to have a real discussion with you by asking some valid questions and stating some facts. You then decide to that this is a game and call me childish. You can't even bring yourself to read my "novel" after having typed one yourself, so you just give up? Who is acting childish now? You are making allegations with no facts to support them. I live here in Florida and this news story is the top story all day long. If you need to get some facts look up a local news source. Here are a couple. http://www.clickorlando.com/ http://www.wesh.com/trayvon...-coverage/index.html You will find links to the latest coverage, timeline, who's who, and overview of the story in the second link. You won't get the hand picked parts of the story the national media is spinning and you can read about the impact this story is having locally because of the way outsiders are spinning it. http://www.wesh.com/trayvon...30783338/detail.html http://www.wesh.com/trayvon...30783110/detail.html http://www.wesh.com/news/30698714/detail.html The local 6 news this morning reported that he police interviewed six witnesses, but no one actually saw the confrontation begin or the shooting.
Dude, you are doing the same thing, unless you were right there watching you know as much as I do, and everything you say is an assumption. I don't care where you live, or what you hear. This isn't the 1800's, thanks to technology it's just as likely I could hear about the things your neighbor does as you.
The police report shows 5 witnesses, until this case becomes clearer we don't know what they saw, or didn't see. The news is just as reliable as talking to Joe the plumber about it.
The police report shows 5 witnesses, until this case becomes clearer we don't know what they saw, or didn't see. The news is just as reliable as talking to Joe the plumber about it.
Brad
Read the last two lines from my post you quoted.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-28-2012).]
As I said in a PM last night, I had been up for over 30 hours and needed to sleep before I could fully reply to your novel. Bear with me while I give you material to twist around or ignore.
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:
There are NO, NONE, NADA, NADIE, NO ONE who saw the original confrontation. Show me a link to a story or quote of anyone who actually saw them first come together. This is the most important part of this event and can decide who is innocent or guilty of what. All witnesses presented themselves after this moment and not before. ...
In that case there is not enough evidence to prosecute Zimmerman, and he is innocent by default. If you are going to "lock in" this answer, you cannot ask for "justice" as there is no way to get it with zero evidence.
quote
The call was recorded and I havent seen this reported in the news here. Again I ask for a link to show this.
"again", don't start that bullshit, you haven't asked me before for the link, that was the first time I mentioned it, and I said I saw it on TV and that nothing was a fact until it was proven.
quote
So his girlfriend is not a reliable witness. This could be true because she was his girlfriend, but first stories are usually the truer ones.
She's not a reliable witness, and her talking about what she heard over a phone is not admissible as evidence in a court of law as far as I know, and can never be judged as "fact". (remember, this was about you posting FACTS.)
quote
The body was face down on the ground with the victims arms folded under it. Zimmerman was seen seemindly holding the body down.
Once again, not in the Police report, still not fact unless you can prove it as such.
quote
You mustn't be a gun owner nor a responsible one if you don't know what the answer to that question is. You don't carry a gun with the safety off unless you intend to shot right away. Your not even supposed to put your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to discharge the weapon. If the safety was off, Zimmerman was ready to shoot to kill as soon as possible.
So now it's personal attack against me? Good show Mr. Avengador. Are you able to have a discussion without attacking?
That's as far as I'm going with you until at least an apology for the comment above, remember, the entire reply I made was because you posted a line of "facts" and all I said was that nothing can be a fact unless it's proven.
Above is the iconic picture we’ve been become accustomed to seeing everywhere in the media, used to represent the recent Trayvon Martin shooting in Sanford, Florida. From everything the public has been told, Trayvon Martin was a fresh-faced, innocent looking teenager and the visage of the man who shot him, George Zimmerman, is right out of a booking photo.
The media narrative being sold is quite clear, Trayvon Martin is the innocent victim here and George Zimmerman is a horrible bigot who attacked the young man for doing nothing more than buying skittles while being black. Even Barack Obama seems to accept the fresh-faced innocence of Trayvon, stating, “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon.” More on that later.
It’s becoming more and more clear however that the innocent appearance the mainstream media is so desperate to apply to Trayvon isn’t at all accurate. The picture we’re used to seeing to represent Trayvon Martin appears to be a far cry from how he actually looked once he was a few years older.
Extended School Suspension
There has been a lot of analysis about the character of George Zimmerman in the media, and surprisingly little about Trayvon Martin.
For instance, a few days before he was killed, Trayvon was suspended from school for ten days.
Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade. “He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” Martin said, declining to offer more details. Before that, Trayvon attended Miami Carol City High School near his mother’s home in Miami Gardens.
There has been very little follow-up in investigating exactly why Trayvon was suspended for such a long period of time for what seems to be the relatively minor offense of “being in an unauthorized area.” In most schools, something like that would be a detention, or one-day, in school suspension at most. Not ten days.
Of course, this is why Trayvon was staying as his Father’s house, so far away from school. And it also explains why George Zimmerman, who by all accounts seemed to stay on top of everything that happened in his neighborhood, didn’t recognize him that evening, Trayvon didn’t really live there, and was only in town because of the suspension.
It seems we may not find out more anytime soon, as a lawyer representing Trayvon’s family has sealed his school records.
Multiple Tattoos
To learn more about Trayvon’s character, we have to look to his friends and family to offer clues. Unfortunately, it seems as if most people who knew him are intent on cleaning up his image, rather than discussing what Trayvon was really like.
Even though Trayvon was only 17, he already was sporting gold teeth, and several large tattoos. This one was on his wrist, apparently of his girlfriend’s mother’s name.
This photo, taken from Tray’s MySpace page, shows another large tattoo that took up most of his upper arm.
Twitter
It seems that Tray was also on Twitter, but his account seems to have been recently deleted by his family or friends.
His screen name was “@NO_LIMIT_NIGGA, as you can see from the twitpic account screenshot above. He was also a member of a twitter hash group #team4dat.
At first, I was skeptical that anyone would maintain an account with that sort of derogatory slur in the title, but after doing some research, it’s apparent that it was Trayvon’s account.
The account was in existence long before the shooting occurred a few weeks ago, and was deleted only recently, there are still dozens of references to @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA in google’s cache.
The associated twitpic account matches the account name and is still online at the time of publication. Most of the pics were uploaded months ago, so this account was associated with Trayvon long before the shooting took place.
Several of Tray’s friends have been very open about referring to Trayvon using that account as well. His cousin, who is quite active on Twitter, refers to Trayvon more than a dozen times using the @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA nickname.
Violence & Gang Activity
There seem to be several allusions to violence on Tray’s Twitter account.
His friends posted supportive messages using it as well, about how happy they were that Trayvon whooped Zimmerman’s ass before he died.
@NO_LIMIT_NIGGA IMA MISS YU TILL I DIE DOG I KNOW YU WHOOPED HIS ASS DOE.. CUZ I PRAY GOD HELP ME AND WATCH YU LOVE YOU CUZZ REST ETERNALLY.
Another post makes reference to Trayvon having “swung on a bus driver” a few days before he died.
Did that have something to do with his ten-day suspension?
On Trayvon’s MySpace page, at least one of his top friends, Romario305, is featured making a gang sign towards the camera in his default profile picture.
Almost all of this is in stark contrast to the media’s central narrative that Trayvon was a normal, happy, well-adjusted teenager.
Instead of that, we are seeing long suspensions from school, tattoos, racially-charged epitaphs, and violence.
Drug Culture
Several of his friends have posted pictures of rolled blunts to twitter in memorial to Trayvon.
There is also fairly direct evidence that Trayvon may have been a small-time drug-dealer.
On Facebook on February 5th, his friend posts on his wall asking to talk business. Trayvon says he doesn’t have a phone available and his friend says, “Damn were u at a nigga needa plant.”
That Facebook url should still work, if anyone is intrepid enough to check it out.
Unless Trayvon was selling Orchids, it seems fairly reasonable to posit that he may have been somewhat well-known among his friends for selling marijuana.
Conclusions
Hopefully this info paints a somewhat different picture of Trayvon than the one the media has been forcing down our throats for the last several weeks.
This is a complex case, and while all the facts are not in yet, we do know that Zimmerman was well within his rights to make verbal contact with someone he didn’t know or recognize in his neighborhood.
In fact, that’s exactly what Neighborhood Watch groups are for, to be the “eyes and ears” of the community. It appears that Zimmerman was very good at this job.
No matter how offended someone might be to have a stranger come up and ask what they are doing there, it doesn’t give anyone a license to commit assault.
From what I can tell, Zimmerman was doing a routine neighborhood watch, called in someone he considered suspicious, and was maintaining a visual on him until the police came.
Then he was attacked, had his nose broken and was in a prone position while crying out for help.
Zimmerman was pinned to the ground, according to a witness, and was still being beaten by someone much younger than him.
Many people are reading a lot into the weight difference between Martin and Zimmerman, but Zimmerman was also 5’9 and out of shape. I’m pretty sure many tubby thirty-year-olds wouldn’t do well against a fit, 6’3, 17-year-old.
This is a textbook self-defense case, and I’d urge anyone reading to look at the full set of facts before drawing conclusions.
As I said in a PM last night, I had been up for over 30 hours and needed to sleep before I could fully reply to your novel. Bear with me while I give you material to twist around or ignore.
Take your time and make sure you can back up what you say.
There are NO, NONE, NADA, NADIE, NO ONE who saw the original confrontation. Show me a link to a story or quote of anyone who actually saw them first come together. This is the most important part of this event and can decide who is innocent or guilty of what. All witnesses presented themselves after this moment and not before. ...
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In that case there is not enough evidence to prosecute Zimmerman, and he is innocent by default. If you are going to "lock in" this answer, you cannot ask for "justice" as there is no way to get it with zero evidence.
So now you are a judge, lawyer, or the District Attorney? You also are taking the word of a admitted murderer over that of his victim. The call was recorded and I havent seen this reported in the news here. Again I ask for a link to show this.
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"again", don't start that bullshit, you haven't asked me before for the link, that was the first time I mentioned it, and I said I saw it on TV and that nothing was a fact until it was proven.
You may have seen it on TV but there should also be a link. I am still trying to find one from Local 6 about this mornings report and I will post it once it appears. Did you really need to use profanity to get your point across? How civil is that? So his girlfriend is not a reliable witness. This could be true because she was his girlfriend, but first stories are usually the truer ones.
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She's not a reliable witness, and her talking about what she heard over a phone is not admissible as evidence in a court of law as far as I know, and can never be judged as "fact". (remember, this was about you posting FACTS.)
This may be true, but sometimes even hearsay can be admitted into a case. Her conversation should still be taken into account in the investigation and not totally discarded. The body was face down on the ground with the victims arms folded under it. Zimmerman was seen seemindly holding the body down.
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Once again, not in the Police report, still not fact unless you can prove it as such.
This was reported by an eye witness. Maybe one of the ones the police refursed to take a statement from. You mustn't be a gun owner nor a responsible one if you don't know what the answer to that question is. You don't carry a gun with the safety off unless you intend to shot right away. Your not even supposed to put your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to discharge the weapon. If the safety was off, Zimmerman was ready to shoot to kill as soon as possible.
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So now it's personal attack against me? Good show Mr. Avengador. Are you able to have a discussion without attacking?
That's as far as I'm going with you until at least an apology for the comment above, remember, the entire reply I made was because you posted a line of "facts" and all I said was that nothing can be a fact unless it's proven.
Brad
I asked a relevant question about the weapon and I questioned your knowledge on gun safety. These are relevant questions because they are key factors in Zimmerman's innocence or guilt. Now you take them as a personal attack and insult. You will not get any apology from me, as I don't think there is anything for me to apologize for. Do you in fact know anything about gun safety? Have you taken any gun or hunting courses that would have taught this? If you haven't then there is no shame in admitting so. It's better than acting indignant. Unless you can show something that shows my "facts" aren't facts, they shall remain so. Go get some sleep and get some real facts of your own to dispute mine. I even gave you some good links above that you can search through to find some.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-28-2012).]
Lets look at this a different way. You posted a long comment and included these 7 "facts"
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Originally Posted by Avengador The facts are: 1-Zimmerman was following Martin in his SUV through the neighborhood. He made a 911 call to make them aware of what he was doing. 2-Zimmerman was armed with a 9mm hand gun. 3-Zimmerman left his SUV to continue his pursuit of Martin on foot. He was told to not follow Martin by the 911 operator when he admitted doing so. He can be heard running after being told not to pursue. 4-Martin was aware that he was being followed and told his girlfriend about it. He had been on his cellphone with her the whole time this was happening. He was using an ear bud device to talk on his cellphone. It somehow became disconnected just before the confrontation and their communication is cut off. 5-911 calls started pouring in about someone crying and screaming for help until a shot is heard. 6-Martin is dead from gun shot to his chest. He has no identification on him.(It took police 24 hours to report his death to his father because of that) 7-Zimmerman is seen with his hands on the back of the body. He then stood up and seemed to be grabbing his head in disbelief and shock. He did not respond when asked several times what he was doing there. Finally he tells the witnesses to call 911.
RED= Not proven facts. GREEN= Facts as we know them.
Only a couple of them are actually facts at this point and time. Calling them all facts does not make them facts. Brad
[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 03-28-2012).]
Originally posted by avengador1: This was reported by an eye witness. Maybe one of the ones the police refursed to take a statement from. You mustn't be a gun owner nor a responsible one if you don't know what the answer to that question is. You don't carry a gun with the safety off unless you intend to shot right away. Your not even supposed to put your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to discharge the weapon. If the safety was off, Zimmerman was ready to shoot to kill as soon as possible.
My Glock doesn't have a safety to turn on or off, so does that make me a irresponsible gun owner?
Originally posted by Avengedor1[/b] I asked a relevant question about the weapon and I questioned your knowledge on gun safety. These are relevant questions because they are key factors in Zimmerman's innocence or guilt.
Well first off my knowledge of gun safety has zero bearing on Zimmermans innocence or guilt. Nothing we discuss has any bearing on that in the end, and certainly not anything I do.
As for my personal use rules, I don't typically share them with the Forum if you haven't noticed, and I don't care to discuss whether I own or use any weapons of any sort.
I will say that traditional training dictates leaving the safety on, however Police and Security personnel typically disengage their safety if they think they are about to need the weapon.
I also know people that make it a habit to disengage the safety as they unholster the weapon, as the only reason to pull it out of its holster is to use it.
avengador1, I see why you usually just cut and paste.
123, Your ability to actually change your opinion on this tragedy after reading the facts gives me a new respect for you. Glocks though confortable in the hand, straight shooting and reliable are the worst guns out their because of the “trigger safety” stupidest thing I have seen on a gun. If we were in a world without idiots and children might be OK. Flame away Glock owners! just my opinion.
George Zimmerman son of judge with sealed closed arrest record in Fla. 27 Mar 2012 'Now we know why George Zimmerman didn't get arrested... No Words... According to court records, George Zimmerman is the son of retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert J Zimmerman, his mother Gladys Zimmerman is a court clerk...
Gawd Dam... I guess the DA will be stepping down next.
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Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is. Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here? Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else. Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse. Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse? Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** he's running. Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
I'll bet that Mr Z flashed his weapon as I too would have ran like my life depended on it. And if the S.O.B. chased me and somehow cornered me off I would have to "stand my ground" and beat him down until he isn't moving any more.
This was reported by an eye witness. Maybe one of the ones the police refursed to take a statement from. You mustn't be a gun owner nor a responsible one if you don't know what the answer to that question is. You don't carry a gun with the safety off unless you intend to shot right away. Your not even supposed to put your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to discharge the weapon. If the safety was off, Zimmerman was ready to shoot to kill as soon as possible.
I carry a gun with me the vast majority of my waking hours and when asleep its within arms reach. I wouldn't carry a gun unless I was "ready to shoot to kill as soon as possible". I wouldn't recommend anyone carry a gun unless they were "ready to shoot to kill as soon as possible". If you are ever in a situation where you have have to defend your life you only have a split second and you better damn be "ready to shoot to kill as soon as possible" or you'll be dead.
Weather a safety is on or off does not say one thing about his intentions. Many guns don't even have safeties. Using safeties is a personal choice based on many factors. The same as choosing what condition you carry the firearm in, loaded or not, hammer cocked or not....so on. There are to many variables to list here. To suggest its known what somebody was thinking because the safety of their firearm was off is ridiculous.
I'll bet that Mr Z flashed his weapon as I too would have ran like my life depended on it. And if the S.O.B. chased me and somehow cornered me off I would have to "stand my ground" and beat him down until he isn't moving any more.
Nice theory but the account from Martin's girlfriend, who was speaking to him up to the point of the scuffle, gave no indication that Martin knew that Zimmerman had a gun on him.
Originally posted by Doug85GT: Nice theory but the account from Martin's girlfriend, who was speaking to him up to the point of the scuffle, gave no indication that Martin knew that Zimmerman had a gun on him.
If I recall correctly T-Martin dropped his phone ear peice shortly after he told his GF that someone was following him and he said he wasn't going to run. I also think there was a peorid of 5 minutes after that and before the altercation. A time line would be helpful. I also read that Zimmerman said that Martin went for his gun indicating that Zimmerman either showed it to him or it wasn't very concealed.
In your opinion what would make a 6.2 Football player posing as Gangsta Gangsta on his FB page run? After...(not sure on timeline) he told his GF he wasn't going to run?
If anyone is to take anything from this entire story, it should be that anyone on neighborhood watch needs to be recording everything they do while on duty in every way possible.
It would be wise to have video, and there is probably a market for a simple wearable camera that doesn't look horrible (stick out like a sore thumb), and can record for a few hours at a time.
There would be no argument either way if Zimmerman was wearing a camera, and either he would be in jail, or free without the mobs, and protesters looking to kill him.
If I recall correctly T-Martin dropped his phone ear peice shortly after he told his GF that someone was following him and he said he wasn't going to run. I also think there was a peorid of 5 minutes after that and before the altercation. A time line would be helpful. I also read that Zimmerman said that Martin went for his gun indicating that Zimmerman either showed it to him or it wasn't very concealed.
In your opinion what would make a 6.2 Football player posing as Gangsta Gangsta on his FB page run? After...(not sure on timeline) he told his GF he wasn't going to run?
ooowww, ooowww ...I know I know...
The only hole in that theory (assuming you're suggesting that Zimmerman brandished his weapon) I don't know *ANYONE* who would run from someone wielding a weapon, and then go back to confront that person. I've spent years learning to disarm someone with a weapon, including firearms, and if I have half a chance, I'm hauling ass. Only a complete moron would escape from someone holding a gun, and then decide to go back and start some stuff with that person.
[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 03-28-2012).]
There are hundreds of them Brad, and very cheap, and work brilliantly. With an 8 GB microcard, you can get 5 hours filming...and just switch a new card in when you need to. Or just have 2, and alternate between them (I know you know...you've got one in your car, I believe )
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 03-28-2012).]
If anyone is to take anything from this entire story, it should be that anyone on neighborhood watch needs to be recording everything they do while on duty in every way possible.
It would be wise to have video, and there is probably a market for a simple wearable camera that doesn't look horrible (stick out like a sore thumb), and can record for a few hours at a time.
There would be no argument either way if Zimmerman was wearing a camera, and either he would be in jail, or free without the mobs, and protesters looking to kill him.
Brad
It would have been wise to watch and report. Not chase with a loaded handgun. Would be no Mob, Media storm, Protesters if he was taken in for questioning and the police performed proper investigation. The DA didn't allow the manslaughter arrest...Why....maybe because zimmerman's father was a Judge??? maybe there was NOT enough evidence because the police didn't collect any???
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