Maine residents are allowed open carry without any type of permit you just have to be 21 and a resident of the state of Maine. I have to wonder how that makes us look.
Steve
I was specifically talking about conceal carry... but yeah, people in Florida open carry too...
Originally posted by twofatguys: It makes you look like your lawmakers haven't stolen all your rights yet. This isn't supposed to be a gun discussion but when did open carry become a bad thing? Brad
It became that when he started the white guy was carrying a gun post. Lots of people carry guns, most are concealed to keep people from knowing. This guy seems to think just because someone carries a gun they are out to kill someone.
Originally posted by madcurl: Another point. If the Father is saying that his son was making a errand to the store then why is carrying a loaded weapon?
A short time back, if I went to a particular 24 hour discount store after dark, I would be approached in the parking lot and hustled for money 8 out of 10 times. I am smart enough to know that with those odds, eventually I was going to get mugged and possibly injured. After being backed against my vehicle by a gentleman much larger than myself, and fearing for the safety my wife, son and myself, I reached into my pocket and cocked the hammer on a .357 Derringer. The distinct sound of the weapon being readied for use sent the gentleman on his way, quickly. I did not leave the house that night with the intention of defending my life, but because of another man's decision, he put into play the sequence of events that could have ended his life. Since then, I refer to my firearm as my "American Express Card", because I don't leave home without it. I don't carry my firearm to go out looking for trouble any more than having a fire extinguisher means that I am looking for my house to burn down. It simply means that I plan on coming home.
Originally posted by Cooter: A short time back, if I went to a particular 24 hour discount store after dark, I would be approached in the parking lot and hustled for money 8 out of 10 times. I am smart enough to know that with those odds, eventually I was going to get mugged and possibly injured. After being backed against my vehicle by a gentleman much larger than myself, and fearing for the safety my wife, son and myself, I reached into my pocket and cocked the hammer on a .357 Derringer. The distinct sound of the weapon being readied for use sent the gentleman on his way, quickly. I did not leave the house that night with the intention of defending my life, but because of another man's decision, he put into play the sequence of events that could have ended his life. Since then, I refer to my firearm as my "American Express Card", because I don't leave home without it. I don't carry my firearm to go out looking for trouble any more than having a fire extinguisher means that I am looking for my house to burn down. It simply means that I plan on coming home.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but aren’t you also a teacher? Not that I care but I think it does show the person who thinks anyone carrying a gun is just looking for someone to shoot.
You don't think someone making a documentary has a message they want to get across and film and edit the movie to tailor that message? Do you think Fahrenheit 911 was a truthful and unbiased depiction of reality?
Did you see the post where I said that I have a black godson? How prejudice do I look now?
Steve
Honestly? Saying something like that makes it look worse.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Sorry if that sounds racist but I am tired that only black people use the race card, god forbid an American Indian does or a white man.
Steve
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
First of all he isn’t white; he is mixed just like most of the people in this country. So that right there sounds racist to me, not white against black but the opposite.
Steve
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
It may very well been men of color who were responsible for the brake ins all along, it may not. That fact has yet to have been proven, we are getting bits and pieces as they come out. We can only comment on what we hear in the news, good bad, indifferent.
So far from what I have seen on the news this kid disserved what he got, he thought he was a big tough guy. The only tough guys I know are in the jail house or the graveyard. Steve
Just looking through your recent post on the subject tells a story of how you really feel and I think it's sad.
You don't think someone making a documentary has a message they want to get across and film and edit the movie to tailor that message? Do you think Fahrenheit 911 was a truthful and unbiased depiction of reality?
Nope,Same for the news media. But my point was some movies attempt reality and are NOT just fictional movies as someone suggested
A short time back, if I went to a particular 24 hour discount store after dark, I would be approached in the parking lot and hustled for money 8 out of 10 times. I am smart enough to know that with those odds, eventually I was going to get mugged and possibly injured. After being backed against my vehicle by a gentleman much larger than myself, and fearing for the safety my wife, son and myself, I reached into my pocket and cocked the hammer on a .357 Derringer. The distinct sound of the weapon being readied for use sent the gentleman on his way, quickly. I did not leave the house that night with the intention of defending my life, but because of another man's decision, he put into play the sequence of events that could have ended his life. Since then, I refer to my firearm as my "American Express Card", because I don't leave home without it. I don't carry my firearm to go out looking for trouble any more than having a fire extinguisher means that I am looking for my house to burn down. It simply means that I plan on coming home.
Advice for anyone that feels uncomfortable about their chances of making it out of a situation. Used in real life by me.
As soon as you notice a group of guys etc. that you think might try to rob you walk up to them and ask for a cigarette, it doesn't matter if you smoke or not, they don't know you. People who can not afford cigarettes are not going to get robbed. 99.999% of the time you will be told that they don't have anything to spare etc so no worries about having to smoke. (If they do give you one just stick it behind your ear, say "thank you" and walk off.) This is not convincing if you are wearing a suit, getting into/out of a nice car, or holding a sixer of beer.
You have a right to THINK anything you want, you have been wrong so far so why change your streak now.
Steve
Agreed, but you did ask me a question. I'm not saying what is in your heart as I don't know. I did comment based on how your posting. If you don't want to LOOK a certain way then don't say things that create a certain impression.
Originally posted by nosrac: Nope,Same for the news media. But my point was some movies attempt reality and are NOT just fictional movies as someone suggested
Please let me point you in the direction of a seasoned vet in your state. Maryjane is in Texas. Why don’t you pm him and ask him about what happens when someone is shot. Would you believe him? Steve
Originally posted by nosrac: Agreed, but you did ask me a question. I'm not saying what is in your heart as I don't know. I did comment based on how your posting. If you don't want to LOOK a certain way then don't say things that create a certain impression.
You seem to have a knack of not understanding what someone says or posts and you just keep proving that with every post. I don’t care if you are Black, White, Red, Yellow or purple I treat everyone the same no matter what color their skin is or where they come from but I do know what happens when the race card is used and who it is used by. Ever here of a white man using it?
Please let me point you in the direction of a seasoned vet in your state. Maryjane is in Texas. Why don’t you pm him and ask them about what happens when someone is shot. Would you believe him? Steve
I believe you! I didn't know before you made your comments about the gunshot. They made sence so I changed my position. I tried to explain why I came to my original though of No blood on Zimmerman based on what I thought happens when you get shot but I guess I didn't communicate well enough that your explanation made more sence.
You seem to have a knack of not understanding what someone says or posts and you just keep proving that with every post.
Ok, if you say so.
quote
I don’t care if you are Black, White, Red, Yellow or purple I treat everyone the same no matter what color their skin is or where they come from but I do know what happens when the race card is used and who it is used by.
Really, are you trying to prove that to me or yourself?
Finally, there might have been some transfer of blood but it would be hard to distinguish from Zimmerman's own blood. His bloody nose could easily bleed onto the front of his jacket just as much or more than any transfer from Martin.
I can't see any blood spatter on Zimmerman's clothes from the video of when he was brought in for questioning. If he had been beaten for a minute, like his father claims, I would have expected some of his own blood on his clothes, even down the front of them. There seems to be none seen in the police video.
I can't see any blood spatter on Zimmerman's clothes from the video of when he was brought in for questioning. If he had been beaten for a minute, like his father claims, I would have expected some of his own blood on his clothes, even down the front of them. There seems to be none seen in the police video.
Do we really have to go through all this again or can you go back a page or two and just read it all again?
Do you have a fact or something I missed, glossed over or something? I'm very open to changing my mind here.
Just keep in mind that I'm trying to point out that nobody knows exactly what happened here during certain parts of the story, yet despite not knowing, a group of people have told us what Zimmerman was thinking, how racist he was, how he was "looking to kill" etc. Then they call for Zimmerman's death. DEATH! Tell me where I am misjudging here, please.
Brad
I don't know Zimmerman nor do I know how he thinks, but I suspect he was looking for suspicious behavior in his neighborhood. That behavior apparently was found in the person of Martin. I suspect Zimmerman would have likewise done the same thing if he thought a white kid was acting the same way. I don't see Zimmerman as being racist at all.
..There is a lot of misiformation in the national media Zimmermans house address was spread all over the internet,unfortunately it was the wrong address & an elderly couple have been threatened and had to go into hiding.. Trayvon caught Zimmerman,s attention because he was walking BEHIND BUILDINGS,not on street,,his activity was supicious..National media is hiding or ignoring the truth ..all witnesses are under great threat of harm.. ..black community leaders have come forward to say Zimmerman was a productive citizen who helped disavantaged black children. ..Zimmerman was active in the community ,unlike most of us, who sit on our azz.. ..Zimmermans father is a retired Judge & Vietnam vet,,He had to speak with hidden profile on T V,, all witness are under threat by black loudmouth scum ..Sanford florida has a very large police force,,there is a LOT of black crime. there have been many blacks killing whites lately, a police officer was killed. ..bounties are being offered to GET Zimmerman ..In the video with Zimmerman cuffed,he had been cleaned up by medics. ..a grand jury has not been covened,because it looks like Zimmerman is not guilty under the law,,But extreme pressure is being brought to bear to convict him of something the intelligent blacks in this county have backed off when confronted with the truth, but want Zimmerman arrested for something.. Zimmerman was watch patrol for many many years with out problem. ..the reports of 46 calls from Zimmerman to 911 & police are over 6 years or more period.. Travon is dirty,a budding 6'3"criminal,,he was caught with stolen jewelry he was caught with burglary tools ,,he was caught defacing property he was supected of many break ins,, he was not charged ,with the guy was a creep & stupid to boot this is a tragedy,Trayvon is by far the creepier of the 2 Zimmerman did not pull the weapon untill he was under assault many people are scheming to charge Zimmerman with something this is making white people hate blacks,absolutely nothing good will come of this. Jesse Jackson and racist Sharpton called for War at churches 25 miles away from Sanford ,,local pastors thought Sharpton & Jackson were just racist trouble makers ,HOW ABOUT THAT !! Sharpton spoke at a Eatonville church in Winter Park,Maitland florida area Eatonville is a blacktown,,much safer than Sanford..
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-29-2012).]
Show me please one case recently, please. Seems to me you have spent way too much time watching movies and reading books and not enough out in the REAL world.
..There is a lot of misiformation in the national media Zimmermans house address was spread all over the internet,unfortunately it was the wrong address & an elderly couple have been threatened and had to go into hiding.. Trayvon caught Zimmerman,s attention because he was walking BEHIND BUILDINGS,not on street,,his activity was supicious..National media is hiding or ignoring the truth ..all witnesses are under great threat of harm.. ..black community leaders have come forward to say Zimmerman was a productive citizen who helped disavantaged black children. ..Zimmerman was active in the community ,unlike most of us, who sit on our azz.. ..Zimmermans father is a retired Judge & Vietnam vet,,He had to speak with hidden profile,, on T V all witness are under threat by black loudmouth scum ..Sanford florida has a very large police force,,there is a LOT of black crime there have been many blacks killing whites lately a police officer was killed. ..bounties are being offered to GET Zimmerman ..In the video with Zimmerman cuffed,he had been cleaned up by medics. ..a grand jury has not been covened,because it looks like Zimmerman is not guilty under the law,,But extreme pressure is being brought to bear to convict him of something the intelligent blacks in this county have backed off when confronted with the truth, but want Zimmerman arrested for something.. Zimmerman was watch patrol for many many years with out problem. ..the reports of 46 calls from Zimmerman to 911 & police are over 6 years or more period.. Travon is dirty,a budding 6'3"criminal,,he was caught with stolen jewelry he was caught with burglary tools ,,he was caught defacing property he was supected of many break ins,, he was not charged ,with the guy was a creep & stupid to boot this is a tragedy,Trayvon is by far the creepier of the 2 Zimmerman did not pull the weapon untill he was under assault many people are scheming to charge Zimmerman with something this is making white people hate blacks,absolutely nothing good will come of this. Jesse Jackson and racist Sharpton called for War at churches 25 miles away from Sanford ,,local pastors thought Sharpton & Jackson were just racist trouble makers ,HOW ABOUT THAT !! Sharpton spoke at a Eatonville church in Winter Park,Maitland florida area Eatonville is a blacktown,,much safer than Sanford
When you are right you are right dude, every single thing you posted is true.
You know I consider you and friend and I believe you know me pretty well but your comment kinds pisses me off a bit. I carry a concealed firearm everywhere I go. I even carry it when I walk outside to check my mail. Does this make me a racist who is out looking to kill someone? As to why he didn't notify the police dispatcher (he did NOT call 911) that he had a weapon, he is not required to and at the time there was no need to.
The other thing that is pissing me off is everyone keeps saying he (Zimmerman) is white. If he is considered white then history is wrong and we have not elected a black president. Obama is half black and half white. Zimmerman is half black and half latino. So if Zimmerman is white then so is Obama.
I don't recall me every saying, "You or all gun owners are racist" did I?
I will ask you these questions. Would you have followed Martin even though the 911 dispatcher instructed you not too? Would you tell the dispatcher you're carrying a concealed weapon and disregard the 911 dispatcher and follow him anyway?
As Dr. Phil once said, "You can't ride two horse with one ass." A person can't claim "Stand your Ground" and then claim innocent because they followed a innocent person that is now dead.
This case kind or reminds me of the 1996 Richard Jewell Atlanta Olpymic bomber case. Everyone had him tried and convicted. Turned out he was just an honest guy. I think he even collected damages,
I am not saying Zimmerman is innocent, but lets not jump to conclusions.
I see it this way....Dipshid Zimmerman calls the Po-Po about the kid walking down the road. This was one of 46 calls that he has made to the police over the months....Po-Po tells him not to follow the kid but being the retard he is he does anyways. Kid comes up to retard wanting to know why he is following him, retard gets scared and shoots the kid. This may not be exactly how it happened but sounds good.....Point is if retard would have done as told and not followed the kid then the kid would still be alive...End of story....
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 03-30-2012).]
I try to think of myself as a reasonable human being, but this gentlemen makes me wish we were locked in a room and I could beat the dumb@$$ and bigot out of him
I'm following this case with great interest, but the racial fallout and the way the media has reported in this case disgusts me every time I hear that wannabe gangsta's name on the news. Regardless of who started what at this point, a pot dealing thief has been put in his rightful place.
This country has a long way to go, too bad its probably just going to fall apart in a decade or two.
I see it this way....Dipshid Zimmerman calls the Po-Po about the kid walking down the road. This was one of 46 calls that he has made to the police over the months....Po-Po tells him not to follow the kid but being the retard he is he does anyways. Kid comes up to retard wanting to know what he is following him, retard gets scared and shots the kid. This may not be exactly how it happened but sounds good.....Point is if retard would have done as told and not followed the kid then the kid would still be alive...End of story....
Originally posted by 84fiero123: That has been explained before it ain’t like in the movies. I buried a utility knife in my arm one time at work and didn’t even feel it, new blade.
The girl next to me who saw it happen turned white as a ghost, I looked down at my arm and saw no blood just muscle and the bone. It took 36 stitches to close it up, 18 inside and 18 outside. There was no blood until I started to wrap a tourniquet around my upper arm. They guy was shot it ain’t like in the movies blood doesn’t just gush out as soon as the hole is made. The man shot him and he pushed him off as soon as he did, there would have been no blood at that point. Have you ever seen anyone shot in real life? I had, a friend in front of a bar and he didn’t start bleeding until he hit the sidewalk, he was standing in front of the bar and someone drove by and shot him.
Steve
Since my name was brought up in relation to this, I'll answer. It depends. I don't know "where" he was shot at. Where exactly the bullet impacted (entered the body) and the body position of the person being shot at that moment and in the seconds following are all factors that would have to be considered. If shot in the upper chest, and the person is sitting upright, the chest cavity is large and will hold a lot of blood, with perhaps only a minimum showing at the entrance site. Depends also whether the heart was hit and immediately stops beating. In that case, with the victim mostly upright, and so much of the body's blood down in the lower chest--abdomen-hips and legs, there wouldn't be a huge amt of blood until the victim was laid down. If the heart is not hit and still beating, it will pump blood out IF not hit where there is a large enough cavity to contain most of it. IOW, shoot someone in the head, and there will most likely be a LOT of blood, regardless of the position at the time of entrance. Shoot someone in the arm, and the bullet hits a big vein or artery-lots of blood. Hit just muscle and bone--not so much. Punctured lung wounds produce a lot of bleeding but again, it's not always external and in view--the lung itself will contain a lot as will the chest cavity. IOW, there may or may not be a lot of blood--it just depends on too many factors. Being shot in the lungs (sucking chest wound) or any artery feeding the brain will result in a loss of blood flow to the brain. Because there is no blood going to the brain (no oxygen) the brain speeds the heart up significantly, thus increasing the amt of blood pouring from the affected area, but not neccessarily on the exterior of the body. From my personal experience, face and neck wounds bleed a lot externally, as do head wounds. Madcurl, having a medical background-- can probably add addittional insight to this.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-30-2012).]
Here's something else to ponder over. When does Martin's right to claim, "Stand Your Ground" apply? There's a stranger following him and according to what Trevon's stated to his girl friend, "He looks creepy" and as we all know the creepy guy is carrying a loaded weapon. It's the perfect recipe for disaster.
One person with a gun following and ignoring the orders of the dispatcher while at the same time another person is being followed by a "creepy" guy. I'm sure in Zimmerman's mind that was going to work at just fine.
The only other possible outcome worst than what has already happened would be if Zimmerman was following another person with a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
Here's something else to ponder over. When does Martin's right to claim, "Stand Your Ground" apply? There's a stranger following him and according to what Trevon's stated to his girl friend, "He looks creepy" and as we all know the creepy guy is carrying a loaded weapon. It's the perfect recipe for disaster.
One person with a gun following and ignoring the orders of the dispatcher while at the same time another person is being followed by a "creepy" guy. I'm sure in Zimmerman's mind that was going to work at just fine.
The only other possible outcome worst than what has already happened would be if Zimmerman was following another person with a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
The law is pretty clear if you read it. If you feel you are in danger of being killed or seriously injured, you are allowed to defend yourself with deadly force. The *only* difference the "stand your ground" law made was it removed the requirement to try and flee first. Before you had to prove you tried to get away before you had the right to defend yourself.
The exception is if you initiate an altercation, you forfeit the right to use deadly force to defend yourself if the altercation goes bad for you. You regain the right if you make an attempt to withdraw and make your intention to stop fighting known to the other party. If they continue to attack you, you can then defend yourself with deadly force.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 03-30-2012).]
Just to add that Zimmerman did not 'initiate an altercation'. He was part of neighborhood watch. Asking someone what they are doing in your neighborhood isn't 'initiating an altercation', nor is it an excuse to deck someone, nor is following someone. Zimmerman also lost sight of Martin, and Martin returned to him, and pounced on him. THAT was initiating an altercation.
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
The law is pretty clear if you read it. If you feel you are in danger of being killed or seriously injured, you are allowed to defend yourself with deadly force. The *only* difference the "stand your ground" law made was it removed the requirement to try and flee first. Before you had to prove you tried to get away before you had the right to defend yourself.
The exception is if you initiate an altercation, you forfeit the right to use deadly force to defend yourself if the altercation goes bad for you. You regain the right if you make an attempt to withdraw and make your intention to stop fighting known to the other party. If they continue to attack you, you can then defend yourself with deadly force.
I see it this way....Dipshid Zimmerman calls the Po-Po about the kid walking down the road. This was one of 46 calls that he has made to the police over the months....Po-Po tells him not to follow the kid but being the retard he is he does anyways. Kid comes up to retard wanting to know why he is following him, retard gets scared and shoots the kid. This may not be exactly how it happened but sounds good.....Point is if retard would have done as told and not followed the kid then the kid would still be alive...End of story....
Well lets analyze this. Kid was not walking down the road, he was walking thru yards between houses. Zimmerman lost sight of him and was returning to his car when kid jumped him from behind according to his story. Ill give you he should not have followed him in the first place, but you would do the same thing if you saw someone walking around between your neighbors houses that you didnt know.
I call cops on suspicious people several times a week. There is nothing in my yard anyone needs to be near at midnite. Ill say over the years, thats hundreds of times. The business next door closed up and went out of business. I call them whenever I see cars back there in the middle of the nite, in the pitch black dark. Its suspicious to me anytime someone is in a closed car wash at 2am and there are not lites at all there, and all the hoses, vacuums are all gone. Ya they catch drug dealers and thieves all the time when I call. I dont go after them myself because its not my property to guard. They come on mine, I will be out and confront them. I have no qualms about shooting them if I feel threatened doing so. Ive done it before.
So its not case closed till all the real facts come out................last I looked a person is innocent here till a jury finds him guilty. Otherwise all the racists calling for Zimmermans head are nothing but a lynch mob. All these yokels like Sharpton and the NBPP leaders should be in jail for inciting people to commit a felony.
Just to add that Zimmerman did not 'initiate an altercation'. He was part of neighborhood watch. Asking someone what they are doing in your neighborhood isn't 'initiating an altercation', nor is it an excuse to deck someone, nor is following someone. Zimmerman also lost sight of Martin, and Martin returned to him, and pounced on him. THAT was initiating an altercation.
ALLEGEDLY as is the story we are hearing about T. Martin doing nothing to escalate the encounter.
Just to add that Zimmerman did not 'initiate an altercation'. He was part of neighborhood watch. Asking someone what they are doing in your neighborhood isn't 'initiating an altercation', nor is it an excuse to deck someone, nor is following someone. Zimmerman also lost sight of Martin, and Martin returned to him, and pounced on him. THAT was initiating an altercation.
So you buy Zimmerman's account hook, line, and sinker? Or are you one of the 5 wintness that saw the encounter and know for a Fact who started the altercation.
