You're right about that. The question then becomes who's casting the shadow? I've seen enough reports supporting Zimmerman's self defense explanation to give me serious doubt about what really happened. Should Zimmerman have been armed while working as community watch? I don't think it's allowed, so that would be a "no." However, going by the stories of him on the ground with this "child" beating his head against the ground leads me to wonder if he hadn't been armed, would he be the dead one today?
Zimmerman has already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. He gunned down a "child"... it must be repeated over and over... a CHILD who only had some Skittles with him. SKITTLES for goodness sake! And this Skittle carrying CHILD was gunned down in COLD BLOOD because he's BLACK!!!!
That's the narrative. The facts - whatever they end up being - won't matter. The uproar will continue until Zimmerman is dead.
I've purposely avoided the whole "Skittles & iced tea" thing because I personally view them as emotional props and not at all relevant to the broader issue. As far as I'm concerned. he could've been carrying a copy of Hustler magazine and a fifth of Jack Daniel's. My concern is as I've said over and over again in this thread. I have some questions about the events leading up to and subsequent to the shooting, what I view as a distinct vagueness in the wording of the Florida law and the equity of the law's application in this specific instance.
IMHO, anything beyond that is showbiz.
Thanks to Tyler's post, a comparison between KY's law and Florida's application of the same law reveals IMO a lack of ambiguity in how the state of Kentucky worded the statute. I will not retract my statement that Florida needs to reformat the law to make it more concise if they want to avoid this kind of confusion in the future. I fervently believe that, as written, it's an open invitation for misunderstanding about the intentions of the statute.
Originally posted by Doni Hagan: I fervently believe that, as written, it's an open invitation for misunderstanding about the intentions of the statute.
This is a much more rational statement than what you opened with.
quote
Originally posted by Doni Hagan: BUT, in the same state, it appears that if you kill an unarmed child, you can go home with your gun, no problem.
(emphasis on "child" from original post)
When the emotion dies down and reason returns, maybe the facts of the case will come out and justice can be determined for all involved. If we're lucky, there won't be any violence due to that unbridled emotion before that happens, but I'm not betting on luck.
PROGRESS.,enlightenment THE 7:30 national news reported the youth was gun down by zimmeman,,Zimmerman is so screwed!!
Still waiting for first report THAT a 13 year old white boy was doused in gasoline ON THE FRONT PORCH of his home by some black MONSTER scum and set on fire IS MY REPORT RACIST??
I've purposely avoided the whole "Skittles & iced tea" thing because I personally view them as emotional props and not at all relevant to the broader issue. As far as I'm concerned. he could've been carrying a copy of Hustler magazine and a fifth of Jack Daniel's. My concern is as I've said over and over again in this thread. I have some questions about the events leading up to and subsequent to the shooting, what I view as a distinct vagueness in the wording of the Florida law and the equity of the law's application in this specific instance.
IMHO, anything beyond that is showbiz.
Thanks to Tyler's post, a comparison between KY's law and Florida's application of the same law reveals IMO a lack of ambiguity in how the state of Kentucky worded the statute. I will not retract my statement that Florida needs to reformat the law to make it more concise if they want to avoid this kind of confusion in the future. I fervently believe that, as written, it's an open invitation for misunderstanding about the intentions of the statute.
The three things that come to my mind here is:
1 - What was the purpose of the president making comments on a local crime? Why this one in particular, and no others?
2 - These kinds of things happen every day, not only in Florida, but all over the United States. Although each is clearly tragic, why has this one suddenly become so important where all others are insignificant?
3 - Florida is one of the most free states in the union. I've learned a lot more about Florida after having left it, than I knew while I lived there... and I will tell you this. I would not change any of the Florida laws. Bad things happen, and each one has to be investigated... but I'm not willing to change a law that will restrict the freedom of others because one person abused it.
The KID attacked Zimmerman,, this is why the police did not arrest Zimmerman Blacks are trying to hunt down Zimmerman down some witnesses are hiding ,there involvement hidden because many do not want the truth they want vigilante justice the kid got what was comming to him ,now the truth is being twisted listen to the tape the kid came after Zimmerman .. nothing good about this situation,,do not alter what you hear are the cops only morons & incompetent when you disagree with them??
This is a much more rational statement than what you opened with.
Rational....or more measured? Eye of the beholder, I guess.
I was unaware I was among those disallowed from utilizing hyperbole to garner a response on PFF.
I stand corrected.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The three things that come to my mind here is:
1 - What was the purpose of the president making comments on a local crime? Why this one in particular, and no others?
2 - These kinds of things happen every day, not only in Florida, but all over the United States. Although each is clearly tragic, why has this one suddenly become so important where all others are insignificant?
3 - Florida is one of the most free states in the union. I've learned a lot more about Florida after having left it, than I knew while I lived there... and I will tell you this. I would not change any of the Florida laws. Bad things happen, and each one has to be investigated... but I'm not willing to change a law that will restrict the freedom of others because one person abused it.
(1) As far as I can tell from video of the press conference during which he made the statement, he was asked a question about it by a reporter present. Whether or not one feels that the reporter was motivated to ask the question for some unknown agenda is a matter one would have to decide for themselves....though without knowing for certain, that would simply be supposition on one's part. But, be that as it may, the question was asked....he answered it.
(2) I personally don't think any life is "insignificant" so I find it difficult to answer that based upon the premise you put forth. As far as this particular incident is concerned, I've heard it proposed that it happens to "pigtail" onto what has been an ongoing discussion about inner-ethnic relations in recent years and also feeds into a larger discussion about self-defense laws and possibly the ongoing gun control debate. That's just my impression, mind you...which carries about as much weight as any other. Also, it could be as simple as election year politics. You decide.
(3) A clearer definition of the law would not in principle impinge on any law-abiding citizen's right to cite the law as justification for a self-defense response. IMO, the law is vaguely composed and leaves room for such controversy as this when employed in its present language. I'm not proposing that the state repeal it. I'm simply proposing that the state refine the language of it.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 03-25-2012).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The three things that come to my mind here is: 1 - What was the purpose of the president making comments on a local crime? Why this one in particular, and no others?
Because, he was asked about it in an unrelated (unfortunately) press conference. At least he was prepared for the question. I wonder though..you have made comments on it, why are you ( or I for that matter) more or less appropriate to make commentary on a story that is getting national attention? You even made commentary without anyone bringing it up directly to you. http://thecaucus.blogs.nyti...von-martin-shooting/
I'm weighing in now:
I believe this issue could be racially charged. I grew up with a lot of racist hispanics (he was part hispanic, right?) who did not like blacks and were very insulting toward them. It happens, Zimmerman could very well fit into that category... the black community should be careful however, it is still murder first and foremost, regardless of skintone.
Still, if he wants to patrol the street he should do so without a gun as is the law, if he wants to harass someone who is minding their own business, he should be prepared to fight (coward), and if he wants to shoot a minor who was unarmed, regardless of who got physical first, he should go to jail.
I don't really support the death penalty, but I would have no problem seeing this guy get life without possibility of parole.
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 03-25-2012).]
Murder is murder, regardless of color. What sickens me is the obvious "Piling On' of activists like Jesses and Sharpton. Without keeping the crisis alive, they have no power base. Those two guys have absolutely nothing to do but scour the news for an opportunity to agitate the black community. The President did this same thing a few years back and had to have a beer summit. I'm sure his handlers instructed him to make a statement to drive home some left wing point.
Again, Murder is illegal and if Zimmerman is guilty, he should swing from a tree.
$10,000 bounty on Zimmermans head,by black group smaller bounty,s are offered by local blacks,young blacks are hunting Zimmerman
Local blacks that know Zimmerman,say no way is Zimmerman racist one prominent black(Jordan) has come forward to defend Zimmerman on live talk radio(Is he is deep kimchee) I am listening/monitoring local talk radio for the forum !! all the black callers want Zimmerman PROSECUTED. NATIONAL MEDIA HAS AN ANTI GUN ,ANTI WHITE SPIN LOCAL NEWS COMMING FROM WITNESS & POLICE IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU HEAR & READ. ..I live in the area where this happen,,The national media & Al Sharpton are spinning this
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-26-2012).]
A local T.V. & radio black news anchor,Joe Oliver who knows Zimmerman has come forward to defend him.. My bad, I did not listen to his reports I do not give a crap about this story,,I am local to it & listen to a lot of news & news talk radio ,station 540 am has a former prominent regional T.V. anchor as an early morning host,Bud Heddinger,a liberal who has become moderate to gain audience,his 3 hour show has 50% Trayvon /Zimmerman another big local rally today I will follow for Fiero forum
Originally posted by Doni Hagan: I was unaware I was among those disallowed from utilizing hyperbole to garner a response on PFF.
No one has disallowed you from doing anything. You may comment as you like - just as others may reply to those comments. You used hyperbole to garner a response. You got many.
Over the weekend here we had two white women working in a tire store robbed and killed by a black male assailant. They gave him the money he demanded, and then he killed them before leaving.
There was a small mention of it on the news. There's a rally here tonight for Trayvon, though.
Over the weekend here we had two white women working in a tire store robbed and killed by a black male assailant. They gave him the money he demanded, and then he killed them before leaving.
There was a small mention of it on the news. There's a rally here tonight for Trayvon, though.
There have been 100 homicides in the City of Chicago thus far this year. http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/ It's an extremely sad, troubling and unfortunate aspect of modern life in America that gun deaths happen far too often. Hopefully, they caught the assailant. If they haven't as yet, here's praying that they do.
There have been 100 homicides in the City of Chicago thus far this year. http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/ It's an extremely sad, troubling and unfortunate aspect of modern life in America that gun deaths happen far too often. Hopefully, they caught the assailant. If they haven't as yet, here's praying that they do.
That's a lot of vigils. How does the City of Chicago find the time?
So, what elevates Martin's death from an unfortunate aspect of modern life to national vigils? Each of those deaths is just as tragic to the families. In the case of the tire store murders here, there isn't even any controversy over what happened - two people were murdered in cold blood AFTER complying with the robber's demands for money. He had the money, all he had to do was leave. Trayvon Martin was someone's child and looked like Obama's son might have looked like. Naomi Wright was someone's mother, and looked like what Obama's mother might have looked like. But I haven't heard the president speaking about soul searching after her death.
Even in our local news, Martin's death is still on the front page, and Wright's death has already disappeared into obscurity. I had to do a search on the website just to find her name and it happened 3 days ago.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 03-26-2012).]
That's a lot of vigils. How does the City of Chicago find the time?
It's to the point in Chicago (as I would imagine in most major cities) that to "vigil" each gun-related death individually would be a 24/7/365 affair. What local churches, civic organizations, community leaders and victim's families do in the alternative is to hold events for all of the victims of gun violence. Hardly a week passes where there isn't a meeting, rally or march happening somewhere in the city with the goal of not only drawing attention to the problem in a general sense or offering community support to the victims and their families but also to urge city fathers to try to reduce the number of guns on our streets.
Unfortunately, gun-related deaths (at least in Chicago) have no boundaries. They can happen everywhere, to anyone, at any time. Anyone who lives in an urban area would likely tell you it's easier to get armed on the streets of our major metropolitan areas than it is to get fed.
Perhaps that's another issue we may discuss at some later date.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 03-26-2012).]
It's to the point in Chicago (as I would imagine in most major cities) that to "vigil" each gun-related death individually would be a 24/7/365 affair. What local churches, civic organizations, community leaders and victim's families do in the alternative is to hold events for all of the victims of gun violence. Hardly a week passes where there isn't a meeting, rally or march happening somewhere in the city with the goal of not only drawing attention to the problem in a general sense or offering community support to the victims and their families but also to urge city fathers to try to reduce the number of guns on our streets.
Unfortunately, gun-related deaths (at least in Chicago) have no boundaries. They can happen everywhere, to anyone, at any time. Anyone who lives in an urban area would likely tell you it's easier to get armed on the streets of our major metropolitan areas than it is to get fed.
Perhaps that's another issue we may discuss at some later date.
Looks like Martin's father is saying one thing to the police and another to everyone else. The lead detective played the 911 tap to Martin's father and he said the voice crying for help was NOT his son's voice.
You will have to go to the video because embedding was disabled.
Over the weekend here we had two white women working in a tire store robbed and killed by a black male assailant. They gave him the money he demanded, and then he killed them before leaving.
There was a small mention of it on the news. There's a rally here tonight for Trayvon, though.
That is exactly what the black community seems to have wanted Zimmerman to do: just let "little" Trayvon kill him by bashing his skull into the ground. Then "little" Trayvon could have gone on with his life, possibly going on to become a successful gang banger, and the black activists wouldn't have said a peep on the issue. Either way you look at it, Zimmerman is screwed. The media and black community including the president have already declared Zimmerman guilty, and the courts wouldn't dare state otherwise for fear of retaliation. If the Nike Air Jordan riots are any indication, there are a lot of black youths out there who would love nothing more than to see their cities burn. They killed for bloody running shoes, they will certain use "little" Trayvon to kill again.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 03-26-2012).]
SANFORD, Fla. (AP) — Trayvon Martin had been suspended from school for marijuana when the unarmed teenager was shot to death by a neighborhood watch volunteer, a family spokesman said Monday.
Martin, 17, was suspended by Miami-Dade County schools because traces of marijuana were found in a plastic baggie in his book bag, family spokesman Ryan Julison said. Martin was shot Feb. 26 by George Zimmerman while he was visiting Sanford with his father.
Looks like Martin's father is saying one thing to the police and another to everyone else. The lead detective played the 911 tap to Martin's father and he said the voice crying for help was NOT his son's voice.
You will have to go to the video because embedding was disabled.
On March 21st, he and the mother directly contradict the statement given by the Sanford Police by the father dated March 16th.
Police department officials and representatives from the Justice Department have reportedly been meeting privately. Personally, I'm extremely anxious to hear what develops and what information is subsequently released from those conferences.
I LIVE IN COUNTY WHERE THIS HAPPEN ..Eyewitness was on Orlando T.V. (I did not see this), but junkie scum TRAYVON was banging Zimmerman head against ground,pounding him as Zimmerman cried for help.luckily zIMMERMAN got his gun out and sent this slithering scum POS TRAYVON to hell !! ..Blacks trying to raise $1,000,000 to hunt down Zimmerman & hang him police release tape so people will know the truth,,trayvon attacked & was assaulting Zimmerman Big rally here in front of courthouse , liberals of course deny the truth, Most lawyers & public prosecuters in Sanford are left wing & black protesters hope to alter the facts, THE TRUTH SEEMS TO INFURIATE THEM !! Jackson & Sharpton stirring trouble,,thousands are marching to change the truth,AT 4:30 pm,,THIS IS A CLEAR CASE OF SELF DEFENCE Zimmerman works with minority children Zimmerman has black relatives every one involved with this case who told the truth has to hide from liberal vigilantes,they have vowed to get them the LOCAL News WHERE I LIVE,from where it happen is different from what I hear on national broadcast..
the boy was the first one who did the hitting, now I am 5’ 8” tall and 144 lbs. by my last doctor’s appointment 2 days ago and I can tell you if someone his size hit me first and had me on the ground and continued hitting me I would have pulled the trigger myself.
All the pictures we have seen so far of a 13 year old not this 17 year old football player. I don’t care what color he was if he hit me first I would have defended myself in any way I was able to.
This pulling the race card is just gone a little bit too far. We have had a few, more than a few juvenile delinquents here for everything from assault and battery to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I tell them all the same thing when they get here, “I hit back and I am to old to get in a street fight so my first hit will be a death blow.”
They all think twice before giving me any crap here, my house, and my rules. We have had kids that think they are all that and try to get away with crap but learn it doesn’t get far here.
This kid now sounds like one we had here in particular who his PO said if we could get some animal to neuter him it would be the best this for him. He had 3 kids and another on the way at 17.
Now getting a few more facts I can understand why the guy shot him.
It's one thing for not all the facts to be available, but I have to ask why the media continues to use photos of a much younger Martin instead of one showing what he looked like the day he was shot? Would showing Martin was a 6'2" 17 year old football player on suspension from school for marijuana possession sell as well as the pictured 13 year old CHILD who was "armed only with Skittles and Iced Tea"?
the boy was the first one who did the hitting, now I am 5’ 8” tall and 144 lbs. by my last doctor’s appointment 2 days ago and I can tell you if someone his size hit me first and had me on the ground and continued hitting me I would have pulled the trigger myself.
All the pictures we have seen so far of a 13 year old not this 17 year old football player. I don’t care what color he was if he hit me first I would have defended myself in any way I was able to.
This pulling the race card is just gone a little bit too far. We have had a few, more than a few juvenile delinquents here for everything from assault and battery to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I tell them all the same thing when they get here, “I hit back and I am to old to get in a street fight so my first hit will be a death blow.”
They all think twice before giving me any crap here, my house, and my rules. We have had kids that think they are all that and try to get away with crap but learn it doesn’t get far here.
This kid now sounds like one we had here in particular who his PO said if we could get some animal to neuter him it would be the best this for him. He had 3 kids and another on the way at 17.
Now getting a few more facts I can understand why the guy shot him.
Steve
Off course the media won't show a current picture of the 6'2 Martin, that wouldn't go along with their version of the story that he was just an innocent Cosby-esque kid on his way to the market when Zimmerman maliciously gunned him down.
Also, BTW, the "Stand Your Ground" law does not apply here. Zimmerman was pinned to the ground being beaten as he yelled for help. It was impossible for him to retreat.
It's one thing for not all the facts to be available, but I have to ask why the media continues to use photos of a much younger Martin instead of one showing what he looked like the day he was shot? Would showing Martin was a 6'2" 17 year old football player on suspension from school for marijuana possession sell as well as the pictured 13 year old CHILD who was "armed only with Skittles and Iced Tea"?
Rhetorical question? Let's play this game anyways.
Why would the media/"civil rights people" use an old photo of Martin looking like a little kid instead of the obviously available current photos of what Martin actually looked like a the time of the incident, AND why would the media continue to say that he has Skittles and and iced tea?
To make it look like this was a small child who could pose no threat, therefore there would be no reason for Zimmerman to use self defense.
Why would the media/"civil rights people" want to make it look like this was a little child who could pose no threat? Why would they want to try to discredit Zimmerman's self defense story?
To perpetuate the story and get more viewers and supporters, more airtime, and more $$. Imagine all the airtime and $$$ if they can wrangle this unfortunate event into going to trial. MY OH MY!
BONUS!
Why would the media/"civil rights people" first not report the race of the shooter (but report the race of the victim deceased.) AND then when they do report the shooter's race say "white-hispanic"?
To perpetuate race division and to get more backs upset about the situation (demonstrations, vigils, ect).
Why would the media/"civil rights people" want to perpetuate race division and cause demonstrations/protest/vigils?
To get more viewers, airtime, and $$$$.
EXTRA BONUS
Why would the President of the United States of America say of the alleged victim/attacker of an ongoing investigation "if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon'?
?? I honestly don't know.
THESE CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS AND MEDIA ARE %100 spinning this story for their own advantage.
I LIVE IN COUNTY WHERE THIS HAPPEN ..Eyewitness was on Orlando T.V. (I did not see this), but junkie scum TRAYVON was banging Zimmerman head against ground,pounding him as Zimmerman cried for help.luckily zIMMERMAN got his gun out and sent this slithering scum POS TRAYVON to hell !! ..Blacks trying to raise $1,000,000 to hunt down Zimmerman & hang him police release tape so people will know the truth,,trayvon attacked & was assaulting Zimmerman Big rally here in front of courthouse , liberals of course deny the truth, Most lawyers & public prosecuters in Sanford are left wing & black protesters hope to alter the facts, THE TRUTH SEEMS TO INFURIATE THEM !! Jackson & Sharpton stirring trouble,,thousands are marching to change the truth,AT 4:30 pm,,THIS IS A CLEAR CASE OF SELF DEFENCE Zimmerman works with minority children Zimmerman has black relatives every one involved with this case who told the truth has to hide from liberal vigilantes,they have vowed to get them the LOCAL News WHERE I LIVE,from where it happen is different from what I hear on national broadcast..
Junkie scum? Slithering scum POS? Sounds like you have some more background than the rest of us, please share but try to keep the usual bigoted hate speech to a minimum. I've heard it will get one banned.
(The following is my opinion based on what I have seen and read) Zimmerman had 80 pounds on this CHILD, a gun and he is still alive as far as I can tell. I would hope that this CHILD was beating the living **** out of Zimmerman for Zimmerman to have feared for his life and thought it necessary to "defend" himself with deadly force. Profile, follow, disregard professional advice, confront and kill a kid. Way to go big "man" Zimmerman.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 03-26-2012).]
THESE CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS AND MEDIA ARE %100 spinning this story for their own advantage.
Not only the Civil Rights Group and Media, but also Trayvon's own mother who trademarked his name, and is hoping to cash in on her son's death. It's kind of sad that one of the first things that apparently went through his mothers head was "How can I get some $$ out of this?". I wonder if this is what she was occupied with while "little" Trayvon's body lie in a morgue for three days unclaimed. One thing for sure is that she is going to be up against several other black rights groups similarily looking to profit from this event.
At least now we get a glimpse of where "little" Trayvon got his morals from. As the old saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Off course the media won't show a current picture of the 6'2 Martin, that wouldn't go along with their version of the story that he was just an innocent Cosby-esque kid on his way to the market when Zimmerman maliciously gunned him down.
Funny you mentioned that. I was just noting yesterday that the media keeps showing the same pictures over and over- of Zimmerman looking like some scraggly prison inmate, and Martin as this tiny helpless little kid. People are really playing into the hands of the media on this, like everything else.
Originally posted by newf: Junkie scum? Slithering scum POS? Sounds like you have some more background than the rest of us, please share but try to keep the usual bigoted hate speech to a minimum. I've heard it will get one banned.
(The following is my opinion based on what I have seen and read) Zimmerman had 80 pounds on this CHILD, a gun and he is still alive as far as I can tell. I would hope that this CHILD was beating the living **** out of Zimmerman for Zimmerman to have feared for his life and thought it necessary to "defend" himself with deadly force. Profile, follow, disregard professional advice, confront and kill a kid. Way to go big "man" Zimmerman.
How about this, if someone swings at me and misses I can kill them with my bare hands in one blow. But if someone the kid’s size hits me first he will knock me down and if I am down I am at a disadvantage. So I will use any means I have at my disposal to take whoever it is down. Did you read my post above?
When someone knocks you down and that is the story we are getting now you are at a disadvantage as to what you can do to defend yourself.
In the beginging I thought this was simply a racist thing now I think it is the kids fault and the mother who still thinks she has a defenses little 13 years old. This is the age many kids were in Vietnam when I was his age, they weren’t defenseless. There is a reason we put kids in the service his age, because they are in the best shape they will ever be.
This man was not, he was an older man who was hit by a kid, I don’t care if he was black. My godson is black and I am white, I just am so tired of the race card being played here it is ridicules’. The kid was wrong to hit the man and then when he hit him to the ground kept hitting him.
Here is another recent arwhich talks about the precious snow flakes past history of being in trouble. I'm sure the usuals will run to Trayvon's defense saying that he was framed for all of the below.
Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin
Hmm, don't suppose at all the little angle was scoping out Zimmerman's neighbourhood looking for other goodies to rob? Also, I can't believe more people aren't talking about Obama's admission of infidelity in admitting Trayvon could have been his son! I wonder what Michelle has to say about this?
Also still waiting for Obama's comment on the shooting of John Sanderson by three black males. I have a feeling I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to comment...
Here is another recent arwhich talks about the precious snow flakes past history of being in trouble. I'm sure the usuals will run to Trayvon's defense saying that he was framed for all of the below.
Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin
Hmm, don't suppose at all the little angle was scoping out Zimmerman's neighbourhood looking for other goodies to rob? Also, I can't believe more people aren't talking about Obama's admission of infidelity in admitting Trayvon could have been his son! I wonder what Michelle has to say about this?
Wow. Martin's parents are something else. While they are doing everything they can to show Zimmerman as a racist loose cannon, they say anything negative about their son is "character assassination".
If Zimmerman's background can allegedly make him stalk and kill Martin, then Martin's background can make him start a fight, pin Zimmerman down and beat him even as Zimmerman was yelling for help.
I like how the parent's lawyer said the stolen jewelry in their son's backpack was just "rumor" even though it was written in the school's report. What are the odds that someone find the jewelry at the sheriff's office evidence locker later? The big screwdriver that Martin had in his backpack can be used to steal cars, break padlocks, pry open windows, doors and do other acts of thievery.
He is sounding more and more like a kid that was on the path to turning completely bad. Or he was already bad and just was not caught enough yet.
Also, BTW, the "Stand Your Ground" law does not apply here. Zimmerman was pinned to the ground being beaten as he yelled for help. It was impossible for him to retreat.
This is a case of old fashioned self defense.
I hate to jump in on your post, but I guess I will. If Zimmerman did not place himself into this predicament by following Martin (who was clearly not breaking any laws), I'd agree with you 100%. But, since Zimmerman took himself from a place of safety and injected himself into this situation (against the advice of the dispatcher and common sense that was falsely fortified with the fact he was "packing"), I have a hard time accepting a pure "I was just defending my life" theory. Had Zimmerman been minding his own business and Martin approached him and picked a fight, then I'd accept the situation as self-defense.
(1) As far as I can tell from video of the press conference during which he made the statement, he was asked a question about it by a reporter present. Whether or not one feels that the reporter was motivated to ask the question for some unknown agenda is a matter one would have to decide for themselves....though without knowing for certain, that would simply be supposition on one's part. But, be that as it may, the question was asked....he answered it.
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:
Because, he was asked about it in an unrelated (unfortunately) press conference. At least he was prepared for the question. I wonder though..you have made comments on it, why are you ( or I for that matter) more or less appropriate to make commentary on a story that is getting national attention? You even made commentary without anyone bringing it up directly to you.
The reason I'm so angry with the president making a comment on this, is not because I think the president shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion, but that he needs to have better judgement in the statements he makes. Crimes that are comitted at the local level between two individuals like this really have nothing to do with federal politics. The president, whether it was intended for this or not, is in a position of authority. By making the statement he did, that did nothing but inflame the situation further. At the last white house press conference, it was stated that the president was prepared for the question, and that they had actually discussed it previously. This comment didn't make a lot of news (for whatever reason), but it was considered that the question might be asked.
The comment that the president made, only served to inflame the situation further. I'm quite sure that making a statement was probably recommended to him by one of his white political aides... they probably figured somehow that it could be used to help the re-election campaign. Never the less, things really became enflamed at that point, and there's a very good possibility that Zimmerman will get murdered, and Obama only helped to indirectly encourage it by his comments.
How about this, if someone swings at me and misses I can kill them with my bare hands in one blow. But if someone the kid’s size hits me first he will knock me down and if I am down I am at a disadvantage. So I will use any means I have at my disposal to take whoever it is down. Did you read my post above?
When someone knocks you down and that is the story we are getting now you are at a disadvantage as to what you can do to defend yourself.
In the beginging I thought this was simply a racist thing now I think it is the kids fault and the mother who still thinks she has a defenses little 13 years old. This is the age many kids were in Vietnam when I was his age, they weren’t defenseless. There is a reason we put kids in the service his age, because they are in the best shape they will ever be.
This man was not, he was an older man who was hit by a kid, I don’t care if he was black. My godson is black and I am white, I just am so tired of the race card being played here it is ridicules’. The kid was wrong to hit the man and then when he hit him to the ground kept hitting him.
What would you do?
Steve
I did read your post above and you put yourself in the situation of fighting a young strong individual. Do know the facts of this case or are you just saying that you are a shoot first ask questions later kind of guy because of your small stature? Sounds like you are talking about a hypothetical attack on you as a person, do you know that that's what happened here?
I don't know what happened here and neither do most people by the sounds of it. On the surface it sounds like the youth was profiled (maybe racially maybe due to his demeanor and/or dress,,,whatever it was) then he was followed, confronted and then killed. By all accounts he didn't set out to do anything wrong that night in fact it seems that he was just going to the store to pick up some food, yet it turned into his last night on earth. Either way it's an end of a young young life.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 03-26-2012).]
Originally posted by carnut122: I hate to jump in on your post, but I guess I will. If Zimmerman did not place himself into this predicament by following Martin (who was clearly not breaking any laws), I'd agree with you 100%. But, since Zimmerman took himself from a place of safety and injected himself into this situation (against the advice of the dispatcher and common sense that was falsely fortified with the fact he was "packing"), I have a hard time accepting a pure "I was just defending my life" theory. Had Zimmerman been minding his own business and Martin approached him and picked a fight, then I'd accept the situation as self-defense.
You do realize that Martin didn't just punch him. He broke Zimmerman's nose, knocked him to the ground, bashed his head against the ground, pinned him and continued beating him as Zimmerman yelled for help.
If Martin had stopped at just punching, shoving and knocking Zimmerman down, then I would agree with you. I would have said that Zimmerman made bad decisions and Martin is blameless since Martin was defending himself. Martin crossed the line when he pinned Zimmerman down and was beating him.
Even if I assume that Zimmerman started it, Martin's self defense ends when the threat is gone. When Martin knocked Zimmerman down and Martin could walk away, that was the end of the threat. When Martin pinned Zimmerman down and continued beating him, that is when he became the aggressor and Zimmerman had every right to defend himself.
This is the same kind of situation with the pharmacist that just got convicted of murder 1.
Trayvon was exercising his right to stand his ground and face Zimmerman, that didn't give Zimmerman the right to kill him, especially since Zimmerman is the one that was aggressively following him, even as Trayvon tried to elude him and run away. If Zimmerman had just kept his distance, and discontinued his chase, there wouln't be a story. What was Zimmerman expecting would happen because of his chasing Trayvon? Too bad Trayvon wasn't able to get the gun away from Zimmerman. Trayvon Martin Death: Police Say Witnesses Back Zimmerman's Story http://www.newsmax.com/US/t...al&promo_code=E855-1
quote
The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that Trayvon Martin decked George Zimmerman with one punch and then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk, according to a newly released version of the events that led up to the 17-year-old’s death.
The neighborhood watch captain was left “bloody and battered,” according to the version Zimmerman told investigators. Witnesses have corroborated his version, authorities told The Orlando Sentinel. And ABC News reports that Zimmerman told police that Martin knocked him down and attempted to take his gun.
Zimmerman, 28, shot Martin to death on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla., and the case has become a lightning rod for activists who claim the killing was racially motivated. Activists, including Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and NAACP leader Ben Jealous, have addressed rallies in the Orlando suburb.
Another is planned for Monday afternoon attended by Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis and basketball legend Patrick Ewing.
Zimmerman claimed self-defense, but his version of what occurred has been slow in coming out. Both Republican and Democratic politicians have joined the activists querying why Zimmerman has not been arrested, especially as a 911 dispatcher specifically told him not to follow Martin.
Zimmerman told police he got out of his SUV, but lost sight of Martin. As he walked back to his vehicle, he said Martin approached him from behind and asked him if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, the Sentinel reports.
Martin said something like “well you do now,” and punched him in the nose, Zimmerman told police. There has been no report of witnesses to that alleged initial blow.
As the older man fell to the ground, Martin jumped on him and started slamming his head into the sidewalk. In a 911 call from a neighbor, a man can be heard calling for help. Police say they believe it was Zimmerman’s voice, although Martin’s attorney insists it is the teen’s.
The Sentinel reports that one witness told police he was certain he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Martin on top, pounding him.
Zimmerman shot Martin once in the chest “at very close range,” police told the Sentinel. When they arrived, they found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and head. He was treated at the scene but refused to go to the hospital.
The case has caused a national furor centering on race and on Florida’s Stand Your Ground law that allows a person to use deadly force if he feels he is being threatened. Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee has stepped down temporarily.
Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, hit back at the new reports on Monday. “They killed my son, and now they're trying to kill his reputation," she said.
Sanford mayor Jeff Triplett told ABC News he was worried about violence breaking out. “The city today is a tinder box,” he said.
Florida Gov. Rick Scott has appointed a task force headed by special prosecutor Angela Corey to investigate whether Zimmerman’s case should go before a grand jury.
Zimmerman has been in hiding since the debate about the killing ramped up. The New Black Panthers put out a $10,000 bounty on his head after its leader Mikhail Muhammed told a rally on Saturday “He should be fearful for his life. You can’t keep killing black children.”
Movie director Spike Lee revealed Zimmerman’s home address in a Twitter message he retweeted to his quarter of a million followers at the weekend. Last week President Barack Obama jumped into the case saying if he had a son “he would look like Trayvon.”
The Black Panthers should not be offering a dead or alive reward for Zimmerman. That is taking the law into their hands and that isn't right either nor does it help the situation.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-26-2012).]
Trayvon was exercising his right to stand his ground and face Zimmerman, that didn't give Zimmerman the right to kill him, especially since Zimmerman is the one that was aggressively following him, even as Trayvon tried to elude him and run away. If Zimmerman had just kept his distance, and discontinued his chase, there wouln't be a story. What was Zimmerman expecting would happen because of his chasing Trayvon? Too bad Trayvon wasn't able to get the gun away from Zimmerman. Trayvon Martin Death: Police Say Witnesses Back Zimmerman's Story http://www.newsmax.com/US/t...al&promo_code=E855-1
The Black Panthers should not be offering a dead or alive reward for Zimmerman. That is taking the law into their hands and that isn't right either nor does it help the situation.
Standing your ground is one thing, knocking someone down and repeatedly smashing their head to the ground is another.
From your own quote
The neighborhood watch captain was left “bloody and battered,” according to the version Zimmerman told investigators. Witnesses have corroborated his version, authorities told The Orlando Sentinel. And ABC News reports that Zimmerman told police that Martin knocked him down and attempted to take his gun.
The witnesses that have come forward so far have said Zimmeman’s version is true.
And the media seems to be totally ignoring reports that it was Martin who chose to escalate things by following Zimmerman to his vehicle, and also making the choice to assault him after Zimmerman did the right thing by phoning the police on the youth. Would be interesting if the coronoer releases what all drugs the kid had going through his body at the time to make such a collasally stupid decision that ultimately cost him his life. I'll bet you dollars to donuts he had more than skittles in his system.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 03-26-2012).]
I wonder if this is what she was occupied with while "little" Trayvon's body lie in a morgue for three days unclaimed. One thing for sure is that she is going to be up against several other black rights groups similarily looking to profit from this event.
