Originally posted by twofatguys: Please note that I don't agree with these terms, or descriptions. It's a dance, and not racist at all unless you call someone by this name. That's when it becomes racist. Calling yourself by this name, the way I define it makes it a racist term. Brad
The key question will come down to whether or not Zimmerman started the fight. Talking to Martin doesn't qualify as starting an altercation. So, how did Zimmerman approach Martin, what was said or done and who made the first physical attack? That will be up to the court to decide. Race has nothing to do with it.
Now, race very well may play a part of the police's lazy handling of the investigation, which should be investigated. I think their treatment of this incident is potentially more tragic than Martin's death. If they are at fault, how many other cases have there been that didn't make the news?
But I see Obama has now weighed in on this, of course because Martin is black. (if you think Obama would have gotten involved if Martin were white, please hold your breath until he calls Bristol Palin to console her for the attacks she's received by the media - which was more than being called a "slut" by Limbaugh). President Obama has made it very difficult for there to be an impartial trial and increased the chances that Zimmerman will walk no matter what evidence is presented. It's one thing to be on the news, but when the president weighs in on the topic and it's carried by every news agency in the nation, just try and find an impartial jury.
If you listen to the complete response to the question posed to Obama by the reporter, you may notice it's less about race and more about the process of law than perhaps you'd like to admit. He did make the statement that "If he had a son, he's look like Trayvon." Well, melanin being such as it is, there's little to debate about that. If I had a son by an African-American woman of similar skin tone, my son would look like him too in a general sense.
If you can stand to do so, listen to the entire response. For your convenience, I've posted it unedited.
If you listen to the complete response to the question posed to Obama by the reporter, you may notice it's less about race and more about the process of law than perhaps you'd like to admit. He did make the statement that "If he had a son, he's look like Trayvon." Well, melanin being such as it is, there's little to debate about that. If I had a son by an African-American woman of similar skin tone, my son would look like him too in a general sense.
If you can stand to do so, listen to the entire response. For your convenience, I've posted it unedited.
I also found it to be a very cautious and impartial statement by Obama.
Originally posted by twofatguys: Please note that I don't agree with these terms, or descriptions. It's a dance, and not racist at all unless you call someone by this name. That's when it becomes racist. Calling yourself by this name, the way I define it makes it a racist term. Brad
Brad...I'm shocked!
You of all people are now defining what others besides yourself should find offensive? Are you truly looking out for African-American sensitivities??
I applaud you....the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
You were almost there. Just needed to go a bit further.
KRS § 503.060 Improper use of physical force in self-protection. Notwithstanding the provisions of KRS 503.050, the use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is not justifiable when: (1) The defendant is resisting an arrest by a peace officer, recognized to be acting under color of official authority and using no more force than reasonably necessary to effect the arrest, although the arrest is unlawful; or (2) The defendant, with the intention of causing death or serious physical injury to the other person, provokes the use of physical force by such other person; or (3) The defendant was the initial aggressor, except that his use of physical force upon the other person under this circumstance is justifiable when: (a) His initial physical force was nondeadly and the force returned by the other is such that he believes himself to be in imminent danger of death or serious physical injury; or (b) He withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so and the latter nevertheless continues or threatens the use of unlawful physical force. Effective: January 1, 1975 History: Created 1974 Ky. Acts ch. 406, sec. 31, effective January 1, 1975
If you listen to the complete response to the question posed to Obama by the reporter, you may notice it's less about race and more about the process of law than perhaps you'd like to admit. He did make the statement that "If he had a son, he's look like Trayvon." Well, melanin being such as it is, there's little to debate about that. If I had a son by an African-American woman of similar skin tone, my son would look like him too in a general sense.
If you can stand to do so, listen to the entire response. For your convenience, I've posted it unedited.
I've seen it. And if you're honest with yourself and the world, you'll acknowledge that the comment, "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," was more than just a comment on the melanin content of his skin and will have a larger emotional impact. People who support Obama will feel sympathy for Martin, and Obama's opposition may be swayed just the opposite. The point is because Obama has made these comments it's going to be virtually impossible to find a jury of impartial people. Media coverage is bad enough normally, but add presidential involvement tugging at the parental heartstrings and nobody who has access to radio, TV, or internet would be able to sit on a jury for Zimmerman and be impartial.
Do you want him to have a fair and impartial trail even though you're already convinced Zimmerman is a cold blooded murderer? If not, you might as well lynch him now. (and yes, I used the word "lynch" and before you claim racism, I mean it as it's defined: "to put to death, especially by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority.")
If the defense can show the jury isn't impartial, Zimmerman will walk. If convicted, he'll get acquitted on appeal. President Obama has not helped the cause of justice in this case.
We are now truly entering the "silly season" with this incident. Fox News' Geraldo Rivera says that Martin's hoodie was to blame for his death.
Interesting perspective.
At present, I'm sitting in a local Starbuck's dressed in sweatpants, gym shoes, a white t-shirt and, of course, an Abercrombie & Fitch hoodie. Does that make me a target...or a "threat?" I've got shoulder-length dreadlocks so I'm certain I really stand out here. Should I be concerned? What's next? White socks? Should I toss all my son's casual clothes in the dumpster and replace them with Polo shirts and Dockers? Maybe we should establish a "walk safe dress code."
Even Rivera's son "tweeted" that he was embarrassed by his dad's declaration. Personally, I just find it curious....and kind of sad that we've come to this. http://www.washingtonpost.c...gIQAdA65VS_blog.html
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 03-24-2012).]
In the state of Florida, under Florida statute 775.082, you are subject to up to a year in jail and a $5000 fine if you kill a dog.
828.12. Cruelty to animals (1) A person who unnecessarily overloads, overdrives, torments, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter, or unnecessarily mutilates, or kills any animal, or causes the same to be done, or carries in or upon any vehicle, or otherwise, any animal in a cruel or inhumane manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or both.
775.082. Penalties (a) For a misdemeanor of the first degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 1 year.
BUT, in the same state, it appears that if you kill an unarmed child, you can go home with your gun, no problem. http://www.self-defender.net/law2.htm
"It used to be that the burden was on the person who shot to prove they were in danger and needed to use deadly force. The Florida law shifts the burden: it's the prosecutors' burden to prove a negative."
Under the law in Florida and other states, it appears to make little difference that someone in Trayvon's situation was unarmed."
Something's SERIOUSLY wrong with our priorities. It appears that being guilty of CWH (Child Wearing a Hoodie) is now punishable by death in Florida.
Sorry, Boonie....I just couldn't resist. Let the games begin.
For the record... the problem here is not the law, but the individuals.
For that matter, I know that South Florida tends to have more aprehension between blacks and other races than I've certainly felt in Maryland. I actually didn't even realize it until I came back to the metro area. Growing up in the DC Metro area... no one really cares or thinks about the fact that people are of different races... but there tends to be an animosity towards blacks in Florida (from all other races), and an animosity from blacks to everyone else, including other "types" of blacks if you will. One thing that struck me as weird is that native born American blacks in South Florida absolutely DETEST blacks that come over from Haiti. I mean... it's like the 1950s all over again.
I think I've explained this before... but coming from the DC Metro area, I never really thought anything of it... but did always notice that there was a difference in the way that black people were looked upon in South Florida. It's very subtle... it really is, but it's in the way that we all react to eachother. Black people kind of keep to themselves for the most part, and everyone else kind of keeps to themselves from blacks generally also. I'm not trying to make it sound as bad as it is... because people are still normal. I mean, at work, I had co-workers that were black, and I was good friends with some of my neighbors who were black... but there was an apparent "wall" that had to come down in almost every social meeting or initial friendship.
Like I said, I never really noticed it until after I came to Maryland and then kind of realized how there was no "wall."
I don't think it has anything to do with "the south"... I actually believe (based on my perception) that it comes from South American culture that affects South Florida (mostly in a good way, but this is an example of the bad way). Most of the South Americans that move to South Florida are ultra-wealthy. These are people who are used to having people serve them hand and foot at every step. Most of the people who serve them are either black, or of native indian descent Hispanic (Mexicans that venture to South America looking for work). The Cubans are kind of indifferent. The South Americans kind of just treat everyone like that, but I think the blacks tend to be more affected by this probably because of America's history. It's sort of water under the bridge for the other cultures here.
The black on black racism (native born American blacks vs Haiti immigrants) tends to be that the native born American blacks feel as though the Haiti blacks are "trash" and make them look bad. This is how it's been explained to me. I've had more conversations with my black friends and co-workers about how they hate Haitians than I've had about anything else... even than the fact that I was working for the Dolphins at the time which was almost always the discussion down there (who are we going to trade, what's going on, etc...).
Anyway... just throwing that out there because htat has been a preception that I've kind of gotten having lived in South Florida for the past 17 years and then moving back to the metro area.
Still, I love South Florida...
EDIT: I'd also like to mention that I think this whole thing has been very "manufactured"... this kind of stuff happens all the time in America, but many different people, to many different races, and no one bats an eye. The fact that the Obama Administration and the DNC is using this as a way to further the reelection campaign is either brilliant, or completely ridiculous. I also found it totally ridiculous that the media is conveniently leaving out the fact that the shooter is Hispanic. Somehow, I would guess that the overwhelming vast majority of the people in America have absolutely no idea that the shooter is Hispanic and probably just assume it's a white male of European descent. As a matter of fact, the only place I actually see the picture of the shooter is on Fox News. The rest of the news agencies I guess would prefer to keep the outrage going. It's more inciteful to Democrats when it's presumed it's a white guy of european descent that killed a black teen.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 03-24-2012).]
in 1970 there were still bars and restaurants with separate black and white water fountains. the colored entrance was around the back. an interracial couple was noteworthy, and if the man was black mayhem could result. yes, racism lingers and it's not just a southern thang. we've made a lot of progress in my lifetime, but there's still a long way to go.
I'm thinking I'll wait until a grand jury or DA charges Zimmerman with a crime and then just maybe wait until I see some real evidence or hear/read a jury's decision before I hang anyone. I don't trust the media and folks like Al Sharpton aren't going to give us the real story. Mr Sharpton has his own agenda and I don't really believe it has a lot to do with this teenager, more like how Sharpton can use this trajedy to further Al Sharpton.
Yes, this is obviously a trajedy and shouldn't have happened but, it did. What I don't know is what really happened. OK, I've got my fllame retardent suit on, go fer it.
------------------ Ron The key thing is to wake up breathing! All the rest can be fixed. (Except Stupid - You can't fix that) Always remember these words of wisdom.
"The Lord must truly love fools, for he made them in abundance."
in 1970 there were still bars and restaurants with separate black and white water fountains. the colored entrance was around the back. an interracial couple was noteworthy, and if the man was black mayhem could result. yes, racism lingers and it's not just a southern thang. we've made a lot of progress in my lifetime, but there's still a long way to go.
Just curious, but were you aware that the shooter was Hispanic?
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Just curious, but were you aware that the shooter was Hispanic? Todd
does it matter? no, i wasn't aware. i've read several reports and heard the 911 tapes. from what i can tell a man in the neighborhood watch pursued and killed a kid who had some food items and wearing a hoodie. it looks like murder to me. i'm unclear why the kid was in that particular neighborhood. did he live there?
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: the Obama Administration and the DNC ...
may be because the press asked obama to comment.
florida, particularly south and central florida, has gone to hell in the last 20-30 years. i grew up in florida, go back to visit about once a year, but have no desire to live there.
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 03-24-2012).]
does it matter? no, i wasn't aware. i've read several reports and heard the 911 tapes. from what i can tell a man in the neighborhood watch pursued and killed a kid who had some food items and wearing a hoodie. it looks like murder to me. i'm unclear why the kid was in that particular neighborhood. did he live there?
I didn't ask you if it mattered and I wasn't giving an opinion either way, I just asked you if you knew.
And I'm not surprised that you were unaware... no one seems to be. Everyone presumes it was a white of european descent that did this based on pure racism... that's what the media wants you to assume, and that's what everyone with a special interest in this wants you to assume also.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I didn't ask you if it mattered and I wasn't giving an opinion either way, I just asked you if you knew.
And I'm not surprised that you were unaware... no one seems to be. Everyone presumes it was a white of european descent that did this based on pure racism... that's what the media wants you to assume, and that's what everyone with a special interest in this wants you to assume also.
Todd
it obviously matters to you. i don't really care. a kid is dead. why?
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 03-24-2012).]
it obviously matters to you. i don't really care. a kid is dead. why?
It does matter to me. It changes the whole dynamics of the argument and proves to me that people are trying to profit politically in this child's death in ways that I find to be absolutely disgusting. Teenagers and young adults die like this every single day, and no one cares. But now suddenly you, as well as the rest of the politically motivated world, seems interested in it only because of the perception that it was racist?
What's more important here, that racism might have occured, or that a kid is dead?
In every huge news story, I always try to figure out what the underlying goal is... it's almost never in fact what actually happened, but why it was allowed to happen, what can be done about it, what it means, and who stands to profit from the tragedy. Just like the news up in arms about SOPA. There have been dozens of identical bills that have passed (some not) just like SOPA. Suddenly, for whatever reason, SOPA is a huge story... and that's because one organization stood to lose money. Just like the oil pipeline... there are at least 40 some odd pipelines going in between the US and Canada... some for natural gas, and some for crude oil. Some of them were built recently and even Obama blindly voted for as a Senator and no one made a big deal. Suddenly, this one becomes a story because someone stands to lose money.
Why are you interested in the story, or are you a lemming?
I'm thinking I'll wait until a grand jury or DA charges Zimmerman with a crime and then just maybe wait until I see some real evidence or hear/read a jury's decision before I hang anyone. I don't trust the media and folks like Al Sharpton aren't going to give us the real story. Mr Sharpton has his own agenda and I don't really believe it has a lot to do with this teenager, more like how Sharpton can use this trajedy to further Al Sharpton.
Yes, this is obviously a trajedy and shouldn't have happened but, it did. What I don't know is what really happened. OK, I've got my fllame retardent suit on, go fer it.
Take the suit off, Ron...at least for the time being.
I too want to see this case go before a jury (or at the very least investigated thoroughly and professionally) prior to making a judgement. As I've said from the very beginning, my personal objection to all this was the seemingly summary determination made by the officers at the time of the incident. The guy shot someone (a kid, my kid, your kid, you, me, whatever) and walked away with his reputation intact and his gun in his pocket.....under what has been revealed to be rather confusing circumstances and conflicting reports.
I'm repeating myself again but here goes.....Cuff the guy, let him post bail, send the case to trial and let a jury decide. If he's innocent beyond any reasonable doubt and can honestly invoke "self-defense" as a reason for shooting Martin, then let him go on his merry way. But to allow Zimmerman to simply walk based upon his word, a cursory police investigation of the event at best and the determination of a couple of street officers who may or may not have an agenda of their own to adhere to seems unfair to the family, the community at large and, most specifically, Trayvon Martin himself.
Race notwithstanding, age notwithstanding, clothing notwithstanding....there are questions yet unanswered here and we're not talking about a fender bender. A kid lost his life and, as long as there's a shadow cast over the subsequent events, the uproar will continue to increase, I guarantee that. I say clear up the cloudy areas and let justice take it's course.
The only additional point I would add, Doni, is that the fact that there was a shooting doesn't mean the shooter must be arrested and it must go to trial. If it's a clear cut case of self defense, they're not going to arrest him. If someone breaks into your home and starts attacking you and your family with a lead pipe and you shoot and kill him, the police shouldn't have to arrest you and make you prove your innocence in court. Yes, that's an extreme example that's much more clear cut, but the point remains the shooting itself doesn't make you guilty. The situation determines if there's cause to arrest and go to trial.
Again, that does go back to whether or not the police did their job. It is my fervent hope that ALL of the evidence comes out so that justice can be done. If Zimmerman was acting in self defense, he should be left alone. If not, he should go to jail. If the police did a piss poor job because it was a black kid who was shot, they need to be held accountable. If it was just shoddy police work because they are a shoddy department, they need to be replaced. Then there's the issue of Zimmerman being armed while on community watch, which isn't allowed from what I hear. I don't know if that's a legal statue or not, but there could be a weapons charge against him regardless of how the shooting plays out.
There's so much emotion tied up in this I don't know if justice is going to be done. I'm certain no matter what happens some people will still claim justice wasn't done.
I still need more facts to judge either way. Was the kid doing anything or acting suspicious ? Was it dark out...hard to tell whats in someones hands in the dark ? Call it racist if you want, but the fact is more blacks commit crimes. Simply listening to a police scanner or reading the days police reports backs that up. Whats the percentages in jails and prisons ? Im not racist because if I catch you stealing or vandlizing stuff at my place, I shoot whether your black, white or green. Am I more suspicious of a black kid in a hoodie than a white one, sorry to say yes I am for the above reasons.
Any who names a person Trayvon. Do they just make them up out of the blue these days ?
Dude, you seriously have issues. What percentage of Whites do you represent here? Do you fear White wearing hoodie's at the Carlisle show when it rains? Do you go out your way to judge those whose names are Billy Joe, Cootier, Bobby Joe, Clint, and Preston too? What is your view on white collar crimes? What's the percentage of those committing those crimes? Oh that's right; you don't hear those types of crimes over the police scanners.
Here's a percentage thought for you roger. I'm suspicious of any elderly person whose life evolves around hitting on young Hooter girls is a border line pedophile and might have child pictures on their computer. I would certainly not want to live next door to such a person especially if I have young female kids who are blonde and white.
It has been at least a week now that the Feds, state investigators, the DA and media have had their magnifying glass on this case. Still no arrest. Still no charges
I don't know what exactly is going on behind closed doors but I can take a guess from what the arrest report and witnesses statements. Martin was the aggressor, plain and simple. He beat on a guy that was carrying and he got killed. Law enforcement is having a hard time trying to charge Zimmerman because he has such a strong legal defense. The worst outcome would be to try him and he gets off. It would be better if he was not charged at all.
As far as I'm concerned, this is now an exercise in media bias. How far will the media go to get their sensationalized story and figuratively hang Zimmerman in the court of public opinion.
In case anyone missed my earlier post with the arrest report. Also there is a local news clip from the day after the shooting before the race baiters and el Presidente got involved.
SANFORD — Members of the New Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for the "capture" of George Zimmerman, leader Mikhail Muhammad announced during a protest in Sanford today.
When asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly saying: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."
quote
Muhammad said members of his group would search for Zimmerman themselves in Maitland and Jacksonville -- where the 28-year old worked before the shooting, employees there told the Orlando Sentinel. But he declined to say when they will begin their hunt.
quote
The group called for Zimmerman's arrest and threatened to find and detain him if police were not willing to do so. But group members didn't call for the mobilization of thousands until Saturday.
Muhammed led the group in chanting "Justice for Trayvon!" and "Black Power!"
"If the government won't do the job, we'll do it," Muhammad said, leading his group of eight party members in chants like "freedom or death" and "justice for Trayvon" while making the iconic gesture of raising their fists into the air.
I don't hear the media or president decrying this racism. I'm sure they will in time. Whether or not Zimmerman is alive at that point remains to be seen.
I too want to see this case go before a jury (or at the very least investigated thoroughly and professionally) prior to making a judgement.
quote
Originally posted by Doni Hagan:
I drove my parents to the airport this morning for a flight to Orlando. They're meeting with representatives from civil rights organizations from across the country who are there to rally in support the kid's family. I would've gladly gone with them but my schedule just won't permit it at such short notice.
But I'll certainly be there in spirit.
There's just SO MUCH wrong about this entire incident....horribly wrong.
So you will not make a judgment, but seemed all too proud to announce you were helping to support (or willing to help support) Civil Rights organizations for Martins family.
Have you actually read any of the facts surrounding the case.....or was the ethnicity of the people involved sufficient enough for you to make an "informed" determination? Just curious.....
Well, first off, to think that anything the press puts out is unquestionable "fact" is naive. I know what I've been spoon fed just like everyone else. Unlike many I don't think there's some sinister racist coverup going on. I have no doubt the media is releasing just the right info injust the right way so as to make it as sensational as possible. Hardly credible sources for drawing an intelligent educated conclusion, but plenty to make stupid convenient assumptions.
And If you haven't, you should take an objective look at the way certain groups (blacks in this instance) tend to get their ass in the air when something like this happens, and even though they don't really know SQUAT about the *facts" they jump to the conclusion about who is guilty, and demand "justice". Generally, as long as that "justice" is issued to the most convenient white person (or Hispanic in this case). Well, that's just crap in my mind. Maybe, just MAYBE once in a while they may have a legitimate complaint, but how many times are they wrong? How many times has a white person been wrongly convicted in the public eye by mobs jumping to conclusions? Is it worth it to falsely publicly convict ten innocent people in order to rightfully convict one? And of course Jesse and Al have to get their face time. You don't even want to know what I think if those two self serving asshats. They're the first on the scene to protest, and when proven wrong, their cowardice asses are no where to be seen issuing any kind of apology. And you know I'm right about that.
And before you accuse me of being some kind of racist, I'll tell you I can't stand morons of any color, race, creed, religious affiliation or nationality, and that includes white people. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who jumps to a conclusion without full FACTUAL knowledge of a situation, is a moron. I also refuse to mince words and walk on eggshells when the subject turns to race or racial matters, it's just not my way.
[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 03-24-2012).]
So you will not make a judgment, but seemed all too proud to announce you were helping to support (or willing to help support) Civil Rights organizations for Martins family.
Mind if I ask which Civil Rights organizations?
Brad
Yes, actually I do as I think it's a pretty presumptuous question to ask.... but I'll answer it THIS way.
I support my parent's efforts because I deeply respect their 50+ year long commitment to civil rights.....EVERYONE's civil rights. Having said that however, I sincerely don't see where that's any of your damn business....I mean....who are YOU to ask me that? ......or where it's at all relevant to the broader discussion thus far. If you want to make this discussion about you and me specifically, I'm sure we can do that either via PMs or in another thread.
This one was moving along just fine without it.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 03-24-2012).]
Well, first off, to think that anything the press puts out is unquestionable "fact" is naive. I know what I've been spoon fed just like everyone else. Unlike many I don't think there's some sinister racist coverup going on. I have no doubt the media is releasing just the right info injust the right way so as to make it as sensational as possible. Hardly credible sources for drawing an intelligent educated conclusion, but plenty to make stupid convenient assumptions.
And If you haven't, you should take an objective look at the way certain groups (blacks in this instance) tend to get their ass in the air when something like this happens, and even though they don't really know SQUAT about the *facts" they jump to the conclusion about who is guilty, and demand "justice". Generally, as long as that "justice" is issued to the most convenient white person (or Hispanic in this case). Well, that's just crap in my mind. Maybe, just MAYBE once in a while they may have a legitimate complaint, but how many times are they wrong? How many times has a white person been wrongly convicted in the public eye by mobs jumping to conclusions? Is it worth it to falsely publicly convict ten innocent people in order to rightfully convict one? And of course Jesse and Al have to get their face time. You don't even want to know what I think if those two self serving asshats. They're the first on the scene to protest, and when proven wrong, their cowardice asses are no where to be seen issuing any kind of apology. And you know I'm right about that.
And before you accuse me of being some kind of racist, I'll tell you I can't stand morons of any color, race, creed, religious affiliation or nationality, and that includes white people. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who jumps to a conclusion without full FACTUAL knowledge of a situation, is a moron. I also refuse to mince words and walk on eggshells when the subject turns to race or racial matters, it's just not my way.
Thanks for your views.
BUT....who of all that have posted on this thread thus far have I accused of being racist?? Before I accuse you?? Why would I? Perhaps you know something I don't about what I think. I haven't accused anyone else.
I hope this thread isn't headed to the trash like so many others. It's been a particularly intelligent and enlightening discussion thus far.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 03-24-2012).]
I hope this thread isn't headed to the trash like so many others. It's been a particularly intelligent and enlightening discussion thus far.
The Second Coming ~ William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)
Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand. The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand; A shape with lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Some of those guys really knew what they were talking about.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 03-24-2012).]
..No pupeteers in the confrotation ,,Zimmerman has hispanic black relatives!! how about that ?? he should have listen to 911 talker ,but dead creepazoid seems to have attacked Zimmerman good riddance to another rat fornicator..listen to tape & witnesses florida jails are full of black vermin Ive done jail time ,,there is a lot of black scum who hate whitemen ,they want to kill you, a lot of you have a fools version of life,a few nights spent in in the unit with the burglar ,thiefs,scammers,assaulters would open your stupid fools eyes & possibly your anal tract with the solar power unit..
Yes, actually I do as I think it's a pretty presumptuous question to ask.... but I'll answer it THIS way.
I support my parent's efforts because I deeply respect their 50+ year long commitment to civil rights.....EVERYONE's civil rights. Having said that however, I sincerely don't see where that's any of your damn business....I mean....who are YOU to ask me that? ......or where it's at all relevant to the broader discussion thus far. If you want to make this discussion about you and me specifically, I'm sure we can do that either via PMs or in another thread.
This one was moving along just fine without it.
That's cool, but you didn't answer my last PM. I figured that option was off the table.
I asked because if you have already made your mind up on how this will end because you have a vested interest in the case, then this is no longer a discussion, you are not willing to change your mind. (for instance) I think someone could post a video of Martin attacking Zimmerman suddenly, them fighting for the gun, and Martin getting shot and you would likely find a way to say it was either fake, or edited to not show something.
We are now truly entering the "silly season" with this incident. Fox News' Geraldo Rivera says that Martin's hoodie was to blame for his death.
Interesting perspective.
At present, I'm sitting in a local Starbuck's dressed in sweatpants, gym shoes, a white t-shirt and, of course, an Abercrombie & Fitch hoodie. Does that make me a target...or a "threat?" I've got shoulder-length dreadlocks so I'm certain I really stand out here. Should I be concerned? What's next? White socks? Should I toss all my son's casual clothes in the dumpster and replace them with Polo shirts and Dockers? Maybe we should establish a "walk safe dress code."
Even Rivera's son "tweeted" that he was embarrassed by his dad's declaration. Personally, I just find it curious....and kind of sad that we've come to this. http://www.washingtonpost.c...gIQAdA65VS_blog.html
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Originally posted by Doni Hagan:Something's SERIOUSLY wrong with our priorities. It appears that being guilty of CWH (Child Wearing a Hoodie) is now punishable by death in Florida.
Full circle?
The media is drivng now--will the FBI investigation follow their lead or follow protocol for a full and untainted ivestigation and disclosure based solely on the facts of the case?
We'll see.
It's 2012 and I am pretty sad that so much attention has been placed on skin color of both the persons involved. What's next--bringing up the race of the 911 operator?
When--WHEN will it no longer friggen matter? God but this nation has a long way to go.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: In every huge news story, I always try to figure out what the underlying goal is...
it's not that obscure. right wing, left wing: stir us up, stimulate sales, generate revenues.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Why are you interested in the story, or are you a lemming?
as i'm seeing it, an armed man, despite instructions from LE to the contrary, pursues and kills an unarmed man. the rest is conjecture, and most of it irrelevant. why am i interested? it appears that a young man was gunned down in the street for no particular reason. i'd like to know why.
And before you accuse me of being some kind of racist ...
No need to. Your words speak for themselves, and you have revealed yourself for all to see.
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Originally posted by lurker:
... an armed man, despite instructions from LE to the contrary, pursues and kills an unarmed man. the rest is conjecture, and most of it irrelevant.
Well summarized. Regardless of the remaining details, it was Zimmerman who pursued Martin and initiated the confrontation, and he did so while in possession of a deadly weapon. That alone is enough to sustain an aggravated assault charge in Kansas, and probably in many other states as well. Martin's death as a result of the assault, even if unintended, escalates the offense to murder.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-25-2012).]
Originally posted by Doni Hagan: A kid lost his life and, as long as there's a shadow cast over the subsequent events, the uproar will continue to increase, I guarantee that. I say clear up the cloudy areas and let justice take it's course.
You're right about that. The question then becomes who's casting the shadow? I've seen enough reports supporting Zimmerman's self defense explanation to give me serious doubt about what really happened. Should Zimmerman have been armed while working as community watch? I don't think it's allowed, so that would be a "no." However, going by the stories of him on the ground with this "child" beating his head against the ground leads me to wonder if he hadn't been armed, would he be the dead one today?
Zimmerman has already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. He gunned down a "child"... it must be repeated over and over... a CHILD who only had some Skittles with him. SKITTLES for goodness sake! And this Skittle carrying CHILD was gunned down in COLD BLOOD because he's BLACK!!!!
That's the narrative. The facts - whatever they end up being - won't matter. The uproar will continue until Zimmerman is dead.
BUT....who of all that have posted on this thread thus far have I accused of being racist?? Before I accuse you?? Why would I? Perhaps you know something I don't about what I think. I haven't accused anyone else.
I hope this thread isn't headed to the trash like so many others. It's been a particularly intelligent and enlightening discussion thus far.
Having not read every word of every post in this thread, I had no idea what you may cull from my response. The statement was mainly just to emphasize I'm an equal opportunity critic. While you may refrain from making such accusations, drawing such conclusions or resorting to such tactics to accomplish an agenda, obviously some others aren't quite so capable of handling an honestly stated and unvarnished response. Let's face it, it's the popular thing to do these days.
The media is drivng now--will the FBI investigation follow their lead or follow protocol for a full and untainted ivestigation and disclosure based solely on the facts of the case?
We'll see.
It's 2012 and I am pretty sad that so much attention has been placed on skin color of both the persons involved. What's next--bringing up the race of the 911 operator?
When--WHEN will it no longer friggen matter? God but this nation has a long way to go.
My initial statement about the whole hoodie thing was definitely a flight deep into the land of Sarcasm. I never intended it to be taken seriously.....but maybe that's where Geraldo Rivera got the idea.
I think his statement was heartfelt and completely devoid of intended irony......and utterly ridiculous.
..No pupeteers in the confrotation ,,Zimmerman has hispanic black relatives!! how about that ?? he should have listen to 911 talker ,but dead creepazoid seems to have attacked Zimmerman good riddance to another rat fornicator..listen to tape & witnesses florida jails are full of black vermin Ive done jail time ,,there is a lot of black scum who hate whitemen ,they want to kill you, a lot of you have a fools version of life,a few nights spent in in the unit with the burglar ,thiefs,scammers,assaulters would open your stupid fools eyes & possibly your anal tract with the solar power unit..
Oh, oh....Dad's home....
Welcome aboard, Stan. I was wondering where you were on this and when you would join the discussion.
That's cool, but you didn't answer my last PM. I figured that option was off the table.
I asked because if you have already made your mind up on how this will end because you have a vested interest in the case, then this is no longer a discussion, you are not willing to change your mind. (for instance) I think someone could post a video of Martin attacking Zimmerman suddenly, them fighting for the gun, and Martin getting shot and you would likely find a way to say it was either fake, or edited to not show something.
PM sent again though.
Brad
Brad....check your PMs. Sorry about the delay.
I honestly didn't read them and wasn't ignoring you.
in 1970 there were still bars and restaurants with separate black and white water fountains. the colored entrance was around the back. an interracial couple was noteworthy, and if the man was black mayhem could result. yes, racism lingers and it's not just a southern thang. we've made a lot of progress in my lifetime, but there's still a long way to go.
Agreed dude...my ex is black, my 2 sons are mixed race, and it has nothing to do with race.....we broke up because of personal issues, not because of race...I loved her enough to have 2 kids with her, and race never once entered my mind.....would I ever again date a black woman???....dunoo....same as every other woman, it would depend on her attitude.
