.. TRAYVON IS A CRIMINAL PUNK,A SLEEZBAG & THE SOONER YOU REALIZE THIS,,You will know the truth Trayvon is a low life thief,,,A THIEF,do you understand ??
And for this, he deserves to die at the hands of a self-appointed neighborhood block vigilante?
quote
Originally posted by uhlanstan: ..Blacks are trying to get out of central Sanford,they branch out & bring crime with them,sorry if you think this is racist,,it is the truth.
**** you man. You've been ranting all through this thread, and yes, I think you are an ignorant racist ****.
Neo-Nazis are currently conducting heavily armed patrols in and around Sanford, Florida and are "prepared" for violence in the case of a race riot. The patrols are to protect "white citizens in the area who are concerned for their safety" in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting last month, says Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement. "We are not advocating any type of violence or attacks on anybody, but we are prepared for it," he says. "We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over."
Because nothing diffuses racial tension like gun-toting racial separatists patrolling an already on-edge community.
Schoep, whose neo-Nazi group is based in Detroit, tells Riptide the patrols are a response to white residents' fears of a race riot.
A group called the New Black Panther Party recently offered $10,000 for a citizens' arrest of George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter. Schoep said the bounty is a sign that "the possibility of further racial violence... is brimming over like a powder keg ready to explode into the streets."
The patrols are comprised of between 10 and 20 locals and "volunteers" from across the state, including some from Miami, he added. He couldn't go into specifics on what kind of firepower, exactly, the patrols had with them.
"In Arizona the guys can walk around with assault weapons and that's totally legal," Schoep said, referring to the group's patrols of the US-Mexico border. "What I can tell you is that any patrols that we are doing now in Florida are totally within the law."
Asked if the patrols wouldn't just make things worse -- spark a race riot, for instance -- Schoep insisted they were simply a "show of solidarity with the white community down there" and "wouldn't intimidate anybody."
"Whenever there is one of these racially charged events, Al Sharpton goes wherever blacks need him," Schoep said. "We do similar things. We are a white civil rights organization."
He went to great lengths to contrast his organization with the New Black Panther Party, who he blamed for scaring local whites and spurring the need for NSM patrols. Schoep admits that the NSM and the Black Panthers are actually alike in that they are both racial separatists. But he sees a double-standard in the government's treatment of the two groups.
"The Black Panthers have been offering bounties and all that," he says. "But if we called for a bounty on someone's head, I guarantee we'd be locked up as quick as I could walk out of my house."
Schoep was also quick to clarify that he isn't taking sides in Trayvon Martin's controversial shooting. "That's for the courts to decide," he says. Besides, Schoep says, Zimmerman's not even white.
"I think there is some confusion going on," Schoep says. "A lot of people think that this guy who shot Trayvon was white... but he's half Hispanic or Cuban or something. He certainly doesn't look white to me."
To some, sending in the storm troops seems like a sure way to incite -- not prevent -- a race riot. But Schoep says that's way off base.
"We don't wish for things like that," he says. "But there have been race riots in Detroit and L.A... So we know those types of things happen."
"You can either be prepared or you can be blindsided," he adds. "This way, if something were to touch off a race riot, we'd already be in the area."
How reassuring.
And the white guys will be called racists, but the black ones putting bounties on people's heads, posting their addresses to public forums and screaming "No Justice, No Peace" are just concerned citizens.
But at least the author was careful to call them Neo-Nazis and avoid using their "National Socialist Movement" moniker as much as possible - since people might somehow think that's tied to Obama's Socialist supporters like the Communist Workers Party or Democratic Socialists of America.
.................................................................................................................................................................................................... I guess now, if you do an illegal left turn, and are black, you are being profiled. ?! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Police probe Tyler Perry racial profiling...
..
A US police force is investigating two of its officers after Tyler Perry accused them of racial profiling for stopping him in his car and questioning him in a "hostile" manner, a spokesman said.
The African-American writer-director made the allegations regarding an incident in Atlanta, Georgia, in which he performed an illegal turn as a precaution to evade someone possibly tailing him.
In a statement alluding to a high-profile case in Florida fueling debate over racism nationwide, Perry described how he was pulled over by two white officers after turning left from the right lane, while driving home from work.
"Most times when I leave the studio I have an unmarked escort. Other times I constantly check in my rear-view mirror to be sure that I'm not being followed. It's a safety precaution that my security team taught me," he wrote.
After he stopped, an officer told him he had made an illegal turn. He told the officer he did it because he had to be sure he was not being followed. The policeman asked him why he thought someone would follow him.
"Before I could answer him, I heard a hard banging coming from the passenger window," he said. He wound down the window, which was tinted, and another officer asked him "What is wrong with you?" he said.
A "tense" moment then ensued when Perry reached to get a key from a cup-holder, only to realize they might think he was reaching for something else -- at which he recalled his mother's advice when stopped by a white policeman.
"My mother would always say to me, 'If you get stopped by the police, especially if they are white policemen, you say 'Yes sir" and "No sir,' and if they want to take you in, you go with them. Don't resist, you hear me?'"
He decided to step out of the car, at which point another car, with a black officer, pulled up.
"He took one look at me and had that 'Oh No' look on his face. He immediately took both officers to the back of my car and spoke to them in a hushed tone.
"After that, one of the officers stayed near his car while one came back, very apologetic," he said,
"Now I know that there are many great officers, patrolmen and security guys out there... But although we have made significant strides... the world needs to know that we are still being racially profiled.
"And until this situation has improved greatly, I'm not sure how a murder in Florida can be protected by a 'stand your ground law'," he said, referring to Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teen shot by a neighborhood watchman.
The Atlanta Police Department said it was looking into the alleged incident. "Mr. Perry's concerns... will be the basis for referral of the matter to the department's Office of Professional Standards," a spokesman said by email.
"OPS has opened an investigation to determine if Mr. Perry's claims can be substantiated, and whether any departmental policies or procedures were violated during the stop," he added. ..
Obviously it's racially motivated. It couldn't possibly be common farking sense to keep your hands visible and not reach for something during a traffic stop. My momma never taught me that. I have more than 3 brain cells functioning, so I could figure it out on my own.
I guess we need to get these PSAs out to the black community more often.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 04-07-2012).]
Right...I thought all us white people were racists because we are against illegal immigrants, because they are Hispanic? So, does that mean we are off the racist hook for wanting to stop illegal immigration?
Hahah... apparently... this new revelation now means that EVERYONE is racist against blacks. Whites, Hispanics, and maybe even Asians... we just need another royal ****-up of the media in order to paint asians as being racist against blacks now too.
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
A US police force is investigating two of its officers after Tyler Perry accused them of racial profiling for stopping him in his car and questioning him in a "hostile" manner, a spokesman said.
Hah, seriously? When are you NOT questioned in a hostile manner? That's just the psychology that police officers use to obtain and maintain the upper-hand (whether it's necessary or not for the situation at hand).
Of the many times I've been pulled over for various infractions that I was either aware or unaware of... I can only remember one time where they didn't give me a huge attitude, and I don't talk back, act arrogant, or antagonistic at all with officers.
Neither of the two flyers looks good from my vantage point.
The top one refers to a day of "teaching, fasting and prayer" but it also depicts George Zimmerman in the crosshairs of a gun scope.
Looks like incitement to me, whichever of the two flyers you focus on.
I sincerely don't recall so please forgive me if I call you out mistakenly.
You wouldn't happen to have been among those who saw little if anything wrong with the "crosshairs" motif when Sarah Palin used them, would you? I remember the debate on PFF about that during the discussion surrounding the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
Do you notice a distinct difference in the tone of the two flyers?
One calls for "a day of fasting, teaching and prayer".
BTW, "defense" is misspelled on the 2nd one.
Just curious...which one do you tend to place more emphasis on? And, why?
Considering both flyers are on the same site, I give them equal consideration. While there will be some promoting "fasting, teaching, and prayer" there will be others concentrating on "self defense and survival training" with decidedly militant imagery.
So, which "solidarity" group is racist? The New Black Panthers or the National Socialist Movement? Both claim to be supporting "their people."
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 04-07-2012).]
I sincerely don't recall so please forgive me if I call you out mistakenly.
You wouldn't happen to have been among those who saw little if anything wrong with the "crosshairs" motif when Sarah Palin used them, would you? I remember the debate on PFF about that during the discussion surrounding the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
Had Sarah Palin put a bounty on Gabrielle Giffords' head? That might tend to skew the message a bit.
Originally posted by Doni Hagan: You wouldn't happen to have been among those who saw little if anything wrong with the "crosshairs" motif when Sarah Palin used them, would you? I remember the debate on PFF about that during the discussion surrounding the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
I don't think that I ever commented on THAT instance of "crosshairs".
Crosshairs or not--I don't see any likely good outcome (overall) to the Trayvon Martin case. The evidence probably isn't available to demonstrate convincingly either way that Zimmerman was innocent or guilty. If the local police review the procedures that they used that night and make policy changes that will apply to the future, that's all to the good.
But that's for the future: As to this specific case, they need to get to the "bottom" of it--but I just don't have a strong feeling that they can actually do that.
So Zimmerman should probably go free for lack of convicting evidence.
Can the national black community (as a whole) accept that outcome peacefully?
That's where I think the black community has to concede that it's possible that a black was killed unjustly but the actual murderer just can't be convicted because the evidence isn't there.
Can the black community accept the need to make such a concession?
It don't look good.. especially those flyers. Either of them.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-07-2012).]
That's where I think the black community has to concede that it's possible that a black was killed unjustly but the actual murderer just can't be convicted because the evidence isn't there.
Can the black community accept the need to make such a concession?
It don't look good.. especially those flyers. Either of them.
Or how about.
That's where I think the black community has to concede that it's possible that a black was killed justly and the actual victim might have been Zimmerman. Can the black community accept the need to make such a concession? ===== Really, why is this so far fetched? not saying I know what happened in this incident but from what HAS been reported that was not edited it IS a possibility.
Don't worry... this will go over with a huge double-standard.
Just like how black people can take Martin Luther King day off, even though it's not a paid holiday, and they never have to suffer the repercussions of basically not coming into work.
Some companies have tried to rectify this by creating a policy of a "floating holiday", and then they just use that when most black employees don't show up to work.
Love the double standard, I really do.
If black kids don't go to school on Monday, they'll get an excused absense because... well... they're black, and we need to be apologetic for something that happened in the 1800s.
If black adults don't go to work on Monday, they'll just pretend it didn't happen because... well... they're black, adn we need to be apologietic for something that happened in the 1800s.
Even though the vast majority of my family wasn't even in America when it happened, and the one family line I do have in the US, fought for the union anyway... but no... that's ok.
quote
Originally posted by Doni Hagan:
I sincerely don't recall so please forgive me if I call you out mistakenly.
You wouldn't happen to have been among those who saw little if anything wrong with the "crosshairs" motif when Sarah Palin used them, would you? I remember the debate on PFF about that during the discussion surrounding the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
I sincerely don't recall, so please forgive me if I call you out mistakenly...
You wouldn't happen to have been the person who saw little if anything wrong with Harry Belafonte calling Colin Powell a "house n1gger", but you seemed to feel the need to post the propoganda when there was a hint you felt Santorum might have thought about possibly, maybe saying the phrase "government n1gger", when really, all he said was... "government n..."
Sounds like a horrendous example of hypocracy as far as I'm concerned...
Which by the way, what on earth is a "government n1gger?" I've never in my wildest conversations ever heard anything like that before in my life... what exactly is that supposed to mean? Anyone who doesn't think "racism" with every fiber of their being, would have just assumed he was going to say "government nutjob" which I've heard MANY times before.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-07-2012).]
I don't think that I ever commented on THAT instance of "crosshairs".
Crosshairs or not--I don't see any likely good outcome (overall) to the Trayvon Martin case. The evidence probably isn't available to demonstrate convincingly either way that Zimmerman was innocent or guilty. If the local police review the procedures that they used that night and make policy changes that will apply to the future, that's all to the good.
But that's for the future: As to this specific case, they need to get to the "bottom" of it--but I just don't have a strong feeling that they can actually do that.
So Zimmerman should probably go free for lack of convicting evidence.
Can the national black community (as a whole) accept that outcome peacefully?
That's where I think the black community has to concede that it's possible that a black was killed unjustly but the actual murderer just can't be convicted because the evidence isn't there.
Can the black community accept the need to make such a concession?
It don't look good.. especially those flyers. Either of them.
An intelligent and well-reasoned response.....of those that responded.
Honestly, placing myself in the rather uncomfortable and undoubtedly questionable position of attempting to speak for 35 million other people, I personally don't see where the Black community would have an option but to accept the reality of your premise should that eventuality occur. What would be the viable alternative? Despite "conventional wisdom" to the contrary, most of those I speak with see this entire incident as having taken on a life of it's own, revealing the darker sides of all parties in the process.
As I've stated before as have others, you're working via the assumption that all within the Black community are somehow relegated "en masse" to adhere to the statements or actions of a few. I've asked this question before.....Is there any one person (or in this particular instance, organization) that speaks imperially for the whole of the White community? Or is there a degree of self-determination that manifests itself in the decisions and/or actions of the individual?
If the answer to the former is "no" and the latter "yes," please explain how or why you feel the Black community should or could be any different from your own.
Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-07-2012).]
As I've stated before as have others, you're working via the assumption that all within the Black community are somehow relegated "en masse" to adhere to the statements or actions of a few. I've asked this question before.....Is there any one person (or in this particular instance, organization) that speaks imperially for the whole of the White community? Or is there a degree of self-determination that manifests itself in the decisions and/or actions of the individual?
If the answer to the former is "no" and the latter "yes," please explain how or why you feel the Black community should or could be any different from your own.
Thanks.
As a whole, white people (as a race) are not relegated to follow any particular stance, as a matter of fact, we are completely self-determined, to use your term.
On the other hand, black children by a large percentage, are raised to believe that they are victims, and that they should only hang out with other blacks. In many respects, they are not self-determined... they follow the direction set forth by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton... or other "black leaders." (what the **** does that mean?)
Obviously, not everyone is like this, but there's a very large percentage. When you raise a child to be a victim... he / she WILL be a victim, and I'm QUITE SURE that this is the reason why there are a disproportionate number of blacks in the prison system. Not because the prison system is somehow racist, but because children are raised to believe that they will never amount to anything, and CAN NEVER amount to anything. This is re-enforced by people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who convince them, and their parents, that they're victims and that they're too stupid to manage themselves... that they need the government to tell them how to live. Of course, this is a poisoned attitude, but I have a feeling you were fed a lot of this nonsense too growing up. On the flip-side, my parents told me growing up that there exists no wall that I can't go around, jump through, dig under, or outright smash-through. This was re-enforced by watching my own dad relentlessly and tirelessly fight through anything and everything.
Incidentally, I work in an organization that has the highest percentage of geniouses per employer, anywhere in the nation... and funny enough, all of my black co-workers in my department are Republican... was a total shock to me... but I was plesantly surprised. They also don't act like they're victims either... that's probably why they're Republican, because they realize the assinine nature in which people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton enslave the people they "pretend" to shepard, for no other reason than to maintain relevance.
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
In case anyone can't read the fine print, it reads, "WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE"
Unless I'm mistaken, isn't there a law against calling for someone's death in a wanted poster? It certainly proves intent...
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-07-2012).]
As a whole, white people (as a race) are not relegated to follow any particular stance, as a matter of fact, we are completely self-determined, to use your term.
On the other hand, black children by a large percentage, are raised to believe that they are victims, and that they should only hang out with other blacks. In many respects, they are not self-determined... they follow the direction set forth by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton... or other "black leaders." (what the **** does that mean?)
Obviously, not everyone is like this, but there's a very large percentage. When you raise a child to be a victim... he / she WILL be a victim, and I'm QUITE SURE that this is the reason why there are a disproportionate number of blacks in the prison system. Not because the prison system is somehow racist, but because children are raised to believe that they will never amount to anything, and CAN NEVER amount to anything. This is re-enforced by people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who convince them, and their parents, that they're victims and that they're too stupid to manage themselves... that they need the government to tell them how to live. Of course, this is a poisoned attitude, but I have a feeling you were fed a lot of this nonsense too growing up. On the flip-side, my parents told me growing up that there exists no wall that I can't go around, jump through, dig under, or outright smash-through. This was re-enforced by watching my own dad relentlessly and tirelessly fight through anything and everything.
Incidentally, I work in an organization that has the highest percentage of geniouses per employer, anywhere in the nation... and funny enough, all of my black co-workers in my department are Republican... was a total shock to me... but I was plesantly surprised. They also don't act like they're victims either... that's probably why they're Republican, because they realize the assinine nature in which people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton enslave the people they "pretend" to shepard, for no other reason than to maintain relevance.
Interesting perspective.....though I believe your slip is showing.
Is this the point where you trot out the "Bell Curve" statistics as well....or should I anticipate your views on Ellsworth Huntington's "World Power and Evolution?"
May I suggest "Zucht und Sitte Schriften -Die Neuordnung Unserer Lebensgesetze" for your perusal? I can let you have my copy if you tell me where to ship it to....consider it a gift.....as I strive to assist in spreading the "enlightenment."
Enjoy.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-08-2012).]
It's extremely informative to what degree this thread has brought forth the "best" in some of my "fellow members." If I've been delegated to speak for the entire Black community, perhaps there's a distinct possibility that Todd is doing the same for his. Whatever community that may be, mind you. It's extremely hard to tell based upon some of his previous comments.
How's that job working out for you anyway, mi amigo? May all your wildest dreams come true.
At any rate, I think I'll sit this one out until the Sanford incident is closer to some sort of resolution. It seems I've pulled off one or two scabs.
A kluger vaist vos er zogt........a nar zogt vos er vaist. Es iz besser mit a klugn tsu farlirn, eyder mit a nar tsu gevinen.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-08-2012).]
It's extremely informative to what degree this thread has brought forth the "best" in some of my "fellow members." If I've been delegated to speak for the entire Black community, perhaps there's a distinct possibility that Todd is doing the same for his.
I hope you don't feel delegated to speak for the entire Black, Muslim, Male, or even human communities but I enjoy hearing your perspective. Unfortunately it seems that some always try lump all of certain groups together, I assume because it makes it easier for them. Maybe some day...
It's extremely informative to what degree this thread has brought forth the "best" in some of my "fellow members." If I've been delegated to speak for the entire Black community, perhaps there's a distinct possibility that Todd is doing the same for his. Whatever community that may be, mind you. It's extremely hard to tell based upon some of his previous comments.
How's that job working out for you anyway, mi amigo? May all your wildest dreams come true.
At any rate, I think I'll sit this one out until the Sanford incident is closer to some sort of resolution. It seems I've pulled off one or two scabs.
A kluger vaist vos er zogt........a nar zogt vos er vaist. Es iz besser mit a klugn tsu farlirn, eyder mit a nar tsu gevinen.
If it's not obvious, I don't like you. I think you're a hypocrit, and I think you do absolutely everything you pretend that you don't.
The system is broken, and far too many people follow the nonsense that comes from people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. There are exceptions, but you're too oblivious to realize that your own views help contribute to the nonsense that has befallen the black community. They suffer from a disproportionate number of failures in every single category from the largest percentage of abortions, to the most number of murders upon themselves and from themselves, the most number of drop-outs from school, and the most number of people in prison. This all comes from the victim mentality which you, unfortunately, also continue to perpetuate. No other country on this planet has the same issues that America does when it comes to these things with black culture, and I place the blame squarely on the victim mentality that people like you, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton enforce. There is nothing I dispise more than this...
You can talk about layers, or whatever nonsense you're talking about (yeah, it's my fault)... but it's wrong, and it's getting worse, and you're not helping the situation.
WOW! Todd Where the He!! did THAT come from? Sorry, but you are WAAAAYYYY out of line there...IMHO. I totally disassociate myself from that sort of comment, and attitude ONLY in the USA? You ARE kidding, right? This kind of racial disharmony is UNIVERSAL!! Be it white against Black, Hispanic against White...even everybody against ANYBODY is prevalent, and disturbing, throughout the WORLD. Shiite against Sunni..British against the French...North versus South...the list is endless!! Doni has tried, again IMHO, to be an equivocal ambassador trying to speak on behalf of MILLIONS of decent, reasonable and well-balanced people..he defends the TRUTH,not rhetoric. When I lived in Brixton, UK, I was robbed SEVEN times by West Indians, in the clothing shop I managed. NEVER ONCE by a 'white' person. And ALL were young black people. WHY? WHY are they so different to the older generation of their own Race? Simple, again IMHO. The older generations were brought to the UK to be exploited by the employers. They were tempted there by promises of gold on the street, magnificent lifestyles, and EQUALITY. NONE OF THAT HAPPEND FOR THEM...none. So the older generation accepted their lot, perhaps blaming THEMSELVES for falling for the 'Fool's Gold' promise, as much as those who offered it. Then the next generation came along: born in the UK, British Citizens...and yet inherited the SAME attitude that their parents had thrust upon them from 'Whites'. So they look at their aging parents, and see old people who came to better themselves and WORKED HARD (WORK LIKE A BLACK...HEARD THAT BEFORE SOMEWHERE????), SIMPLY TO MAKE THEIR EMPLOYERS RICH, AND GET VERY LITTLE IN RETURN. And so these younger generation members grew cynical about their parents fate, and resented it. They decided they WOULDN'T knuckle under like their parents did...and started to reject the 'White Man's' way of doing things. And who can blame them? They saw the sons of white people , in their classrooms; they saw what THEY were getting from their WHITE parents...and couldn't accept that they were getting LESS than those white children, even though their parents worked as hard, if not harder. They started to rebel. They closed ranks, and started to identify themselves apart from all the white people. Dress. Deliberate bastardisation of the White Man's language. Music. And attitude. WE have to accept equally the blame for their losing the way, because OUR generation caused it.
And the whites didn't like that, and furthered the black peoples' wish to be different, and made them seek refuge in the way they were developing.
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-08-2012).]
WOW! Todd Where the He!! did THAT come from? Sorry, but you are WAAAAYYYY out of line there...IMHO. I totally disassociate myself from that sort of comment, and attitude ONLY in the USA? You ARE kidding, right? This kind of racial disharmony is UNIVERSAL!! Be it white against Black, Hispanic against White...even everybody against ANYBODY is prevalent, and disturbing, throughout the WORLD. Shiite against Sunni..British against the French...North versus South...the list is endless!! Doni has tried, again IMHO, to be an equivocal ambassador trying to speak on behalf of MILLIONS of decent, reasonable and well-balanced people..he defends the TRUTH,not rhetoric. When I lived in Brixton, UK, I was robbed SEVEN times by West Indians, in the clothing shop I managed. NEVER ONCE by a 'white' person. And ALL were young black people. WHY? WHY are they so different to the older generation of their own Race? Simple, again IMHO. The older generations were brought to the UK to be exploited by the employers. They were tempted there by promises of gold on the street, magnificent lifestyles, and EQUALITY. NONE OF THAT HAPPEND FOR THEM...none. So the older generation accepted their lot, perhaps blaming THEMSELVES for falling for the 'Fool's Gold' promise, as much as those who offered it. Then the next generation came along: born in the UK, British Citizens...and yet inherited the SAME attitude that their parents had thrust upon them from 'Whites'. So they look at their aging parents, and see old people who came to better themselves and WORKED HARD (WORK LIKE A BLACK...HEARD THAT BEFORE SOMEWHERE????), SIMPLY TO MAKE THEIR EMPLOYERS RICH, AND GET VERY LITTLE IN RETURN. And so these younger generation members grew cynical about their parents fate, and resented it. They decided they WOULDN'T knuckle under like their parents did...and started to reject the 'White Man's' way of doing things. And who can blame them? They saw the sons of white people , in their classrooms; they saw what THEY were getting from their WHITE parents...and couldn't accept that they were getting LESS than those white children, even though their parents worked as hard, if not harder. They started to rebel. They closed ranks, and started to identify themselves apart from all the white people. Dress. Deliberate bastardisation of the White Man's language. Music. And attitude. WE have to accept equally the blame for their losing the way, because OUR generation caused it.
And the whites didn't like that, and furthered the black peoples' wish to be different, and
See Nick, I think that's racist. What exactly is the "white man's way" of doing things?
There's the "American way" and then in your case... the "Spanish way..."
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: See Nick, I think that's racist. What exactly is the "white man's way" of doing things?
There's the "American way" and then in your case... the "Spanish way..."
There is no black, white, or whatever way...
Todd, take it from ME...I GREW UP DURING THAT CRUEL METAMORPHOSIS. I LIVED IT, IN THE CENTRE OF LONDON'S BLACK GHETTOS. PLEASE DON'T PRESUME TO TELL ME I DON 'T KNOW!! I saw it with my very own eyes.. Your youthful inexperience of what actually happened 40-50 years ago, and your subsequent dependence for information from WHITE MAN'S MEDIA has hidden the truth from you. IMHO.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: If it's not obvious, I don't like you. I think you're a hypocrit, and I think you do absolutely everything you pretend that you don't.
It's obvious, I assure you.
This isn't the first time you've demonstrated that fact. Indeed, frequently your responses to my posts are adversarial in nature, regardless of the subject matter. So now this thread has become about the wrong two men....you and I......simply because I disagree with you and don't back down when you express your opinions. You think I'm a "hypocrit" (sic) and I think you're someone who has a problem with being confronted intellectually and doesn't particular like it when someone disputes your "truths." Well, it's been decades since I graduated high school so I'm not going to agree with you simply to make you "like" me. That's never been my MO, it's not that important and I'm not seeking nor anticipating universal acceptance anyway.
I have the right to say what I believe and not have my personal integrity attacked, my devotion to my faith questioned, my basic intelligence assaulted and my lifelong humanistic sense of being a part of a larger whole summarily dismissed. Guess what? So do you.
So it appears we're at an impasse. If I'm required to join your chorus in order to break the log jam, it's likely we'll remain at one.
.....and that's a pity, IMO.
Online forums are intended to be conversations, not monologues.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-08-2012).]
This isn't the first time you've demonstrated that fact. Indeed, frequently your responses my posts are adversarial in nature, regardless of the subject matter. So now this thread has become about the wrong two men....you and I......simply because I disagree with you and don't back down when you express your opinions. You think I'm a "hypocrit" (sic) and I think you're someone who has a problem with being confronted and doesn't particular like it when someone disputes your "truths." Well, it's been decades since I graduated high school so I'm not going to agree with you simply to make you "like" me. It's not that important and I'm not seeking nor anticipating universal acceptance anyway.
I have the right to say what I believe and not have my personal integrity attacked, my devotion to my faith questioned, my basic intelligence assaulted and my lifelong humanistic sense of being a part of a larger whole summarily dismissed. Guess what? So do you.
So it appears we're at an impasse. If I'm required to join your chorus in order to break the log jam, it's likely we'll remain at one.
.....and that's a pity, IMO.
Online forums are intended to be conversations, not monologues.
If you want to play the victim here, I'll remind you that you're the one that's resorted to name calling in several posts. I have not.
I don't like victim mentality.
Any child born with perfect health in America, regardless of skin color is NOT... absolutely NOT a victim. Yet the "white media" as Nick refers to it as, continues to tell the black population that they're victims.
I sponsor three children through World Vision every month, two from Kenya, and one from Thailand. THOSE are victims. They're born into an impoverished life... people in America, there are no victims... absolutely no victims. You haven't given ANY opinions, all you've done is simply tell me that mine are wrong.
It's like you're trying to use the Socratic method. The difference is, I am not falling on my answers, it's only enforcing my rage against this God damned victim and entitlement mentality that's exploded in America.
quote
Originally posted by fierofetish:
Todd, take it from ME...I GREW UP DURING THAT CRUEL METAMORPHOSIS. I LIVED IT, IN THE CENTRE OF LONDON'S BLACK GHETTOS. PLEASE DON'T PRESUME TO TELL ME I DON 'T KNOW!! I saw it with my very own eyes.. Your youthful inexperience of what actually happened 40-50 years ago, and your subsequent dependence for information from WHITE MAN'S MEDIA has hidden the truth from you. IMHO.
Nick, the "white man's media" is what started this entire thread. What is your point?
Are you trying to tell me that I should walk on egg-shells, and sit idley by while black people continue to succumb to the failures of the white liberal establishment?
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-08-2012).]
Why don't we hear about racism towards Chinese? Or any other type of immigrant to any other country? Simply because they come voluntarily. They CHOOSE to come, and to live 'here'. They aren't here because their parents were either dragged, or fooled into coming. THAT, IMHO, is why Black people are different.The younger generations find themselves born into a World where they are different, simply because they are black...and it was not their choice. It was the choice of their parents, or grandparents for many young black people. They can't go back to their roots, and yet can't assimilate into the populace of the Land THEY didn't choose to be born in. They are rebelling against an attitude which was engendered many years ago, before they were even born. And by trying to BE different and identify themselves as such, they make matters worse for themselves, not better. Sharpton and Jackson are simply entrepreneurs, making a fortune from the unrest: whipping it up, to sustain their lifestyle. Just the same way as Pharmaceutical Companies will NEVER try to end cancer for ever. Shooting the goose
Why don't we hear about racism towards Chinese? Or any other type of immigrant to any other country? Simply because they come voluntarily. They CHOOSE to come, and to live 'here'. They aren't here because their parents were either dragged, or fooled into coming. THAT, IMHO, is why Black people are different.The younger generations find themselves born into a World where they are different, simply because they are black...and it was not their choice. It was the choice of their parents, or grandparents for many young black people. They can't go back to their roots, and yet can't assimilate into the populace of the Land THEY didn't choose to be born in. They are rebelling against an attitude which was engendered many years ago, before they were even born. And by trying to BE different and identify themselves as such, they make matters worse for themselves, not better. Sharpton and Jackson are simply entrepreneurs, making a fortune from the unrest: whipping it up, to sustain their lifestyle. Just the same way as Pharmaceutical Companies will NEVER try to end cancer for ever. Shooting the goose
I understand this Nick. I really do...
I know that the ghettos are predominantly black because after the Emancipation Proclimation, they had no where to go, so they went to the only place they could go to get jobs, which was in the city. They moved together to stay close, in a community... in much the same way that the Irish, the Chinese, and other cultures have done throughout history.
Understand though, that slavery ended in it's technical sense, in the 1800s. The last person to be a slave under slave laws was easily 4 generations ago. The overwhelming vast majority of people on this planet could care less what their parents did, much less what their great great great grandparents did. I've read shitloads of books on this, everything from Tom Burrell's new book, down to children's books such as Black Like Me.
Bigotry will probably always exist, but the problem is much worse than simply whites (or now with the inclusion of Hispanics) against blacks. The biggest problem I see, is the mentality that blacks have against theirselves. We hear a lot about "strong black women"... when people talk like this, it's psychologically much less a person showing their true inner strength, but a person showing their true inner insecurities.
There's exceptions to every rule, of course... and I'm not suggesting that all black people are the same just as no one else is the same. Of course, the ideology of what makes a person a progressive insists that they always focus on the exception, rather than the big picture. The big picture is that the black community is in trouble... the number of black people (percentage to the population) in prisons, dropping out of schools, etc... it's getting worse here in America, it's NOT getting better. This has been a gradual decline that has been continuous for the past ~15 years. Honestly, things were getting better for quite a long time, but things are only getting worse now.
The most predominant ideology for black youths (and actually... white and Hispanic youths for that matter) is to associate with the "bad" image. Inner-City children are raised to believe that getting out of their socioeconomic situation is basically impossible... because the man (or whoever else) keeps them down. They are taught that they shouldn't even bother. Kids like Trayvon end up assimilating a thug lifestyle because that's the best way to get respect from their peers... it makes them feel like they ARE someone. "No Limit Nigga"
Black children who are exceptionally smart, are derided by their peers because they're smart... this makes them feel less encouraged. We're obviously not talking about black people living in Grenich Village... we're talking about inner-city kids.
I really, really want to get past this mentality, and move forward. I don't want to continue to focus on something that happened 100s of years ago. I realize why the black community is on a whole... poor. They came to this country against their will, and when they were finally freed, they had no education, and no where to live.
I want people to have the Fredrick Douglass / Colin Powell mentality... not the Spike Lee, or Shabazz mentality.
That's all I want, and for that, everyone in this thread is shocked and dismayed... God knows what you people are thinking... most people don't have the guts to voice their own opinions for some reason... just enough to tell me that I'm somehow wrong, or in some ridiculous way... racist because I hate racism.
I understand all that you say, really I do. BUT...the lot of many Black people is just the same as it was 50-100 years ago. NOTHING has changed deep down, in EITHER 'side' of the 'warring' factions. I also understand your desires and wishes, but expressing them in a way to garner support and understanding in the way you HAVE here, is NEVER going to change a thing. And to attack a Man who, in my opinion, has been expressing his thoughts in a very controlled way, and FULL OF RESPECT for everybody else , is only going to be devisive, contraversial, and in the end, defeating your very purpose. Many many years of unthinking antagonism can never be undone overnight. IF it can be overcome at all
Why don't we hear about racism towards Chinese? Or any other type of immigrant to any other country? Simply because they come voluntarily. They CHOOSE to come, and to live 'here'. They aren't here because their parents were either dragged, or fooled into coming. THAT, IMHO, is why Black people are different.The younger generations find themselves born into a World where they are different, simply because they are black...and it was not their choice. It was the choice of their parents, or grandparents for many young black people. They can't go back to their roots, and yet can't assimilate into the populace of the Land THEY didn't choose to be born in. They are rebelling against an attitude which was engendered many years ago, before they were even born. And by trying to BE different and identify themselves as such, they make matters worse for themselves, not better. Sharpton and Jackson are simply entrepreneurs, making a fortune from the unrest: whipping it up, to sustain their lifestyle. Just the same way as Pharmaceutical Companies will NEVER try to end cancer for ever. Shooting the goose
Honestly, that is just silly. Blacks have been in America for generations, in fact longer than my family who immigrated here only two generations ago.
The problem with Blacks is they have no culture to call their own and have created a culture around rejecting all current culture. They see education as being part of the white man's world, while embracing sports and the entertainment industry. (Obama even commented on a nation of "ballers and callers.") God, just wathc BET tv and see what blacks are focused on.
My employer, which is very large, has quotas for every program and seeks out blacks for employment, and yet can not find any who are qualified. Pretty much if you are black you will get the job, but none are applying despite living in county where 25% of the population is black. (Also more than half the murders where black, and a disproportionate amount of crime is in black neighborhoods.)
It is easy, from an outsiders perspective, to feel sorry and take an empathetic point of view with blacks. The problem is no one is going into the neighborhoods, schools, and homes, and seeing what is going on. Even more ridiculous is no one will talk about t iand it is often these blacks who want to talk about it. It is the black leaders who externalize the problems. This kid Trayvon sounds like he was on a bad path, but within the black community being suspended from school and doing drugs is acceptable.
Last year we had a similar situaton here with the police and a black kid. Police were seeking to reduce crime and, of course, with increased patroling by police there was destined to be confrontations. Black residents, though the majority praised the increased police presence, other said they felt threatened and then there was a incident. The whole community rallied against the police, meanwhile the shootings and murders continued.
I understand all that you say, really I do. BUT...the lot of many Black people is just the same as it was 50-100 years ago. NOTHING has changed deep down, in EITHER 'side' of the 'warring' factions. I also understand your desires and wishes, but expressing them in a way to garner support and understanding in the way you HAVE here, is NEVER going to change a thing. And to attack a Man who, in my opinion, has been expressing his thoughts in a very controlled way, and FULL OF RESPECT for everybody else , is only going to be devisive, contraversial, and in the end, defeating your very purpose. Many many years of unthinking antagonism can never be undone overnight. IF it can be overcome at all
Guess what Nick, it needs to change.
The mere "thought" of walking on egg-shells about a topic infuriates me. I know that I often lack tact. The ridiculous thing here, is that I get the feeling that a lot of people here somehow think I'm racist because of the way I'm fighting against racism. I am NOT the kind of person that likes to coddle or sugar coat stuff. It's nonsense. I don't believe that the black community is a fragile egg that needs to be delicately handled. I confront issues head-on, that's who I am, and how I am. I realize I type a 1000 w/m, and I go on a diatribe, or a tangent (if you will), but nothing I've said here is racist... I think people are reading into things based on pre-conceived notions they have on the subject. Nothing personal to you Nick, but I believe you think of this whole concept of racism as very fragile. I was raised by a strict Dutch father, I'm sure you understand. When I got hurt, he told me to get fit and man up (in his crazy Dutch accent). "Victim Mentality" is the one thing in this world that really, really, really upsets me. That's why I get so aggressive in conversations like this. When I get the feeling that someone is feeling sorry for themselves... where they're being a delicate nancy, I get angry. I'm sure that's my upbringing, but oh well... it's worked well for me so far.
I am not calling you racist Todd, and never wished to imply, or even SAY you are . Any more than I think Doni is either. I have to go to work now, so I will just leave as I came..gently, and respectfully, I hope.
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-08-2012).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Guess what Nick, it needs to change.
The mere "thought" of walking on egg-shells about a topic infuriates me. I know that I often lack tact. The ridiculous thing here, is that I get the feeling that a lot of people here somehow think I'm racist because of the way I'm fighting against racism. I am NOT the kind of person that likes to coddle or sugar coat stuff. It's nonsense. I don't believe that the black community is a fragile egg that needs to be delicately handled. I confront issues head-on, that's who I am, and how I am. I realize I type a 1000 w/m, and I go on a diatribe, or a tangent (if you will), but nothing I've said here is racist... I think people are reading into things based on pre-conceived notions they have on the subject. Nothing personal to you Nick, but I believe you think of this whole concept of racism as very fragile. I was raised by a strict Dutch father, I'm sure you understand. When I got hurt, he told me to get fit and man up (in his crazy Dutch accent). "Victim Mentality" is the one thing in this world that really, really, really upsets me. That's why I get so aggressive in conversations like this. When I get the feeling that someone is feeling sorry for themselves... where they're being a delicate nancy, I get angry. I'm sure that's my upbringing, but oh well... it's worked well for me so far.
I had a similar upbringing, and handle my issues the same way. Definitely in agreement with most of what you have mentioned- I wish more people could "man up" so we can start changing the current American way of life where everyone is entitled to the best of things. No, you don't deserve a damn thing unless you work for it.
I grew up with "inner city" kids, in fact I was 1 out of 4 white kids in my class of 34 in JHS who weren't black- however it was a "gifted or honors" class (whats important here is that most were brought up in families with strong values and aspired to educate themselves). I went to a school that was so segregated that there was a white supremacist group- and there were racially charged fights between blacks and whites around 2-3 times a day- I found myself fighting with my black peers many times. Times when I couldn't even walk into the park a few blocks from school without being threatened of getting beat down because I belonged to a class with the "n*****s" (our school was located in a italian/ irish neighborhood, but many kids from the "ghetto" were zoned there from adjacent communities. The honors students (6 classes worth of students, 4 of those being entirely white) were segregated from the "regular" classes which were about 8-10 classfulls almost entirely black kids. (Ate lunch at different periods, had a break/ recess at different times). The race problem was promoted by the school if anything...
Looking back on it, its despicable that this still happens in 2000 and later. It is true the way black kids are predominantly being raised, with the mentality of the only way to become successful in their own way is to be "thuggin and gangsta". You will find that maybe 3 out of 10 kids have plans to go through with higher education and attempt some type of profession, and they are dissociated to a certain extent from the "normal" black youth.
