Looks sweet.

It looks really good!
btw. did you use the rubber caps on your lights? Just tried them with the connectors, but they wont fit



So I assume I have to get me some real H7-connectors (those expensive suckers)

quote Originally posted by Fiero1Fan: Now I can really and officially confirm package is sent. Once again sorry about the mix up.

Thanks Timo.. and apology not really required. The important thing is that you found and corrected the problem before it became a real problem for me.

Cheers!

I really like the pics of the completed harness in tubing! Way cool!

Mine still need to be finished and was just trying to decide if I wanted to go with DUAL Hi/Low before finishing them up. Marvin's post helped me decide to at least wait for others to do it an report in. My pics were posted in my build thread - 6th page. You can see it here

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/059675-6.html

Dave

quote Originally posted by swisscheese: It looks really good! btw. did you use the rubber caps on your lights? Just tried them with the connectors, but they wont fit So I assume I have to get me some real H7-connectors (those expensive suckers)

To tell you the truth no I haven't tried it with the rubber caps. The lamps I ordered came without the caps and connectors. I'll get a set and see what happens. I'll let you know.

OK, I just got me some H7-connectors for approx.$10 (per piece!!!)

Now the rubber cap fits. there is still a little bulge but that ok.

Looks a lot better.

There - finished them up real purdy!

Check my link up a few from this post.

Dave

Nice job!! Looks good.

My buckets arrived today. Boy was I suprised.
Are mine from the second batch?
You're too fast Timo, I wasn't quite ready yet. Now I've got to get on the ball and order the lights, make the harness, re-install the engine, finish the body and paint, complete the suspension rebuild...... I'm gonna' have to take a week off work now, no, I just need to retire early. Oh darn!
Glad I got the interior done when I did.
Great workmanship, fantastic service. Pluses to you.
Mike

quote Originally posted by Motorhead: My buckets arrived today. Boy was I suprised. Are mine from the second batch? You're too fast Timo, I wasn't quite ready yet. Now I've got to get on the ball and order the lights, make the harness, re-install the engine, finish the body and paint, complete the suspension rebuild...... I'm gonna' have to take a week off work now, no, I just need to retire early. Oh darn! Glad I got the interior done when I did. Great workmanship, fantastic service. Pluses to you. Mike

Hi Mike.
Yours are from someone that I mistakenly sent a set of twin rounds to that wanted rectangulars. Hope you enjoy them.

quote Originally posted by Motorhead: My buckets arrived today. Boy was I suprised. Are mine from the second batch? You're too fast Timo, I wasn't quite ready yet. Now I've got to get on the ball and order the lights, make the harness, re-install the engine, finish the body and paint, complete the suspension rebuild...... I'm gonna' have to take a week off work now, no, I just need to retire early. Oh darn! Glad I got the interior done when I did. Great workmanship, fantastic service. Pluses to you. Mike

lol! Sounds like your car is in nearly the exact same state as mine

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Ahhhh, just finished installing them. For the first side it took me some time to figure out all the problems. Well the only real problem was that the mounting holes where too small because of the powdercoating. So I opened them up again and all fitted real well (hey, and it works )
On one side I had to "bend" the bucket a bit to go in the right position.
I hope I adjusted the light somewhat good. I'll find out tomorrow when all the others are flahing at me
Pics will follow!

LOL

quote Originally posted by Fiero1Fan: Hi Mike. Yours are from someone that I mistakenly sent a set of twin rounds to that wanted rectangulars. Hope you enjoy them.

quote Originally posted by HIOSILVER!: LOL

Thanks. Let me know what I owe you for the postage.

Looks good to me. I think the rectangular style fits the '80's Fiero styling better. I should have the $$ by April. let's see some on the car please!

ok, as promised, here is the result of yesterdays evening work:

[This message has been edited by swisscheese (edited 03-20-2007).]

Looks real good. (Of course I'm biased... )

[This message has been edited by Fiero1Fan (edited 03-16-2007).]

Did anybody try this mount out yet with HID's? I'm very curious as to the light output and shape.

I heard Hella makes 90mm HID's, anybody have any luck with them? Are there other companies to consider too?

-M

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: Did anybody try this mount out yet with HID's? I'm very curious as to the light output and shape. I heard Hella makes 90mm HID's, anybody have any luck with them?

I've already posted comparison pictures, including the Hella 90mm HID low beam module (which is DOT compliant), in this thread. The jury is still out, but I will probably end up using the Hella HID modules with Timo's buckets.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-16-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: I've already posted comparison pictures, including the Hella 90mm HID low beam module (which is DOT compliant), in this thread. The jury is still out, but I will probably end up using the Hella HID modules with Timo's buckets.

Thanks, I found that thread about the time I made that post. It helped quite a bit. I was also looking for installed pics, to see clearance and where the ballasts are mounted.

I like the rectangulars. I think they came out nice. What is that mini light inside the main light ?

The little light is a position light. Here in Europe if you're car doesn't have seperate position lights then they have to have them in the main light. The lamps are available with/without the position light.

That is one reason I am looking to offer the position/blinker lights soon. 2/3rds yellow (Blinker) and 1/3rd white (Position). I will be offering 2 styles.

Style 1 (available now) 35€ a set plus 12€ shipping:


Style 2 (not available ATT) :

Swiss Cheese, where do you get the parking lights for your car? I bought my car from a German so I think they should light up like yours but they do not light up without signaling. I am wondering if they are the original American style lights with the wrong bulbs in my car...

EDIT:

Well, I see more information now. I forgot I left this thread up all night...

Are these from the local parts stores?

[This message has been edited by midengineracer (edited 03-17-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: I was also looking for installed pics, to see clearance and where the ballasts are mounted.

Clearance is probably OK. Here is a test fit picture of the Hella 90mm HID module. The silver thing at the back of the HID module is the igniter I plan to use (Valeo):




Ballast mounting has to be individually engineered depending on the particular components you use. Some considerations are:

1) External igniter or igniter integrated into the ballast? With an external igniter you have two electronic assemblies (per HID capsule) that can fail, but the cable length between the ballast and the HID capsule is virtually unlimited. If the ballast has an integrated igniter, there is only one electronic assembly (per capsule) to fail, but the cable length will be limited to about one foot (30 cm) ... due to the very high ignition voltage (~23,000 volts) the cable has to carry briefly during startup.

2) Environmental exposure? Most ballasts, along with their associated connectors and wiring, are not waterproof. Many OEM designs mount the ballast inside a water-tight (and dust-tight) headlight housing, where it is protected from the elements.

3) Ambient temperature? The ballasts are quite efficient and don't generate much heat themselves, but since they are electronic they shouldn't be exposed to temperatures higher than about 195 F (90 C). Mounting the ballasts in the airflow downstream of the radiator is probably less than ideal.

In my case I will probably use an external-igniter system, and mount the ballasts somewhere in the Fiero's front compartment. Properly engineering the system will take time.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-19-2007).]

About the blinkers: They are not readily available in a local parts store. I have found where I can get them from. If you're interested in the first ones I can get them to you immediately as I have several sets here.

[This message has been edited by Fiero1Fan (edited 03-17-2007).]

I'm about to throw them out. I'm going to install some drl's in this location.

Timo, do you know where these lights are bolted on? or do you have any pics from the back of the lights? Thanks!

quote Originally posted by swisscheese: Timo, do you know where these lights are bolted on? or do you have any pics from the back of the lights? Thanks!

Here is a comparison between the two in depth. The thin one will be harder to mount and the right one will be alot easier.

Thanks alot for the pics!

pm answered

I read through all the pages and still have a question. I saw a reference on page 10 about a diagram to keep the low beams lit when the high beams are on. The factory lights are low beams = 50 watts and high beams = 65 watts. When the factory low beams are on, the headlight circuit is drawing 2x50 = 100 watts; high beams draw 2x65 = 130 watts. Using the 65 watt H9 lights, the modified low beams then draw 2x65 = 130 watts and the modified high beams would draw (2x65) + (2x65) = 260 watts (!?). I see that the diagram includes a relay. My question is:

What is the safest maximum wattage (without additional relays) that can be drawn through the circuit (for an extended time) without burning something up (headlight switch, fusable link, etc.) ?

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: What is the safest maximum wattage (without additional relays) that can be drawn through the circuit (for an extended time) without burning something up (headlight switch, fusable link, etc.) ?

I have to ask why you even want to illuminate all four headlights simultaneously? It's not like there won't be enough light when the high beams are on. (See this thread for a discussion and comparsion pictures.) If you want all four headlights illuminated primarily for the "bling" factor, then you're doing the whole conversion for the wrong reason IMHO.

To address your specific question, see this thread for a complete discussion. The bottom line is that the stock Fiero headlight wiring is marginal but probably OK, but it still remains to be seen whether or not the circuit breaker built into the Fiero headlight switch will trip with four 65 watt H9 halogen bulbs illuminated simultaneously.

I really recommend that you use the OEM wiring configuration when you install the Hella 90mm modules ... you can always rewire later if you decide you still want to. The only time I would recommend rewiring to keep the low beams illuminated is if the low beams are HID, and only then because of the special characteristics of HID systems.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-20-2007).]

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: The factory lights are low beams = 50 watts and high beams = 65 watts. What is the safest maximum wattage (without additional relays) that can be drawn through the circuit (for an extended time) without burning something up (headlight switch, fusable link, etc.) ?

The Fiero dual beam headlights are 35 watts @ 700 lums for the low beam and 55 watts @ 1200 lums for the high beam
The Hella's are 65 watts @ 2100 lums.

As for the max, The Fiero uses 12 AWG wire for the headlights. 12 AWG has an average limit of 41 amps which would be 590 watts. If you were to turn on the low and high beams of the Hella's you would be drawing 9.02 amps.

EDIT: Seems there is a question on what size wire is used. I went by what the H4 pins were designed for an assumed it was the same as what was in the car.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-20-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: The Fiero uses 12 AWG wire for the headlights. 12 AWG has an average limit of 9.3 amps ....

According to the Helm manual for the '88 Fiero, the wiring downstream of the headlight switch is 1mm, which corresponds to 16 AWG, and GM seems to consistently use 20-25 amp fuses for circuits using 1mm wire. In aircraft practice (FAA EA-AC 43.13-1A criteria), the current limits due to heating for 16 AWG copper wire are:

Single wire in free air: 22 amps continuous, 26 amps intermittent
Wire in a bundle or in conduit: 13 amps continuous, 26 amps intermittent

Besides the headlight switch itself, the most critical wire would be the one between the headlight switch and the dimmer switch, which has to carry the current for all four headlights. Downstream of the dimmer switch there are separate circuits for high beam and low beam lamps, so the total current would be divided between them when all four headlights were illuminated.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-20-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: According to the Helm manual for the '88 Fiero, the wiring downstream of the headlight switch is 1mm, which corresponds to 16 AWG, and GM seems to consistently use 20-25 amp fuses for circuits using 1mm wire. In aircraft practice (FAA EA-AC 43.13-1A criteria), the current limits due to heating for 16 AWG copper wire are: Single wire in free air: 22 amps continuous, 26 amps intermittent Wire in a bundle or in conduit: 13 amps continuous, 26 amps intermittent Besides the headlight switch itself, the most critical wire would be the one between the headlight switch and the dimmer switch, which has to carry the current for all four headlights. Downstream of the dimmer switch there are separate circuits for high beam and low beam lamps, so the total current would be divided between them when all four headlights were illuminated.

1mm is 18 AWG, 16 AWG is 1.2mm and 12 AWG is 2mm for Mil-Spec wiring.
Is the wire sizes different for automobiles?

NOTE: I had to edit my previous post as I was incorrect on the max amps.

Finally got my twin rounds installed. Look good, I like them. Now to find a area/wall to aim them! ( I have a sloped driveway).
Oreif did the wiring harnesses for me. Very professional looking. We had some discussion about routing the harnesses under the housing. In my case, the harness moves freely with the buckets, and there is no interference or tension against the loom that I can see. So, I put the harness under the housing.
Think I will run with the doors open, Hella blights off , parking lights on for awhile in daylight!

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The Hellas are 65 watts - is that high beam or low beam ?

At a draw of 9.02 amps, it seems like the factory fiero circuit could handle it, even if someone wanted to run high and low beams both at the same time ?

quote Originally posted by Oreif: 1mm is 18 AWG, 16 AWG is 1.2mm and 12 AWG is 2mm for Mil-Spec wiring. Is the wire sizes different for automobiles?

You may be right, but here is the conversion table from the FSM that I relied on. It does say that, "Each AWG size is either equal to or larger than the equivalent metric size."



I also seem to remember that there is some discrepancy between SAE wire gauges and AWG ... with the SAE wire having a slightly smaller circular cross-section area than an AWG wire with the same gauge number ... but I can't find that information right now. I'll post it if I find it. In the meantime, here's a wire chart that provides a finer-grained comparison.

Edit: I've found several sources which confirm that SAE gauge wire is about 6% to 12% smaller than AWG wire with the same gauge number. I have no idea why this difference exists.

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: The Hellas are 65 watts - is that high beam or low beam ?

All the DOT-compliant Hella 90mm modules, both high beam and low beam, use the same 65 watt H9 halogen bulb ... which is about 5 amps each at 13 volts. The Fiero headlight wiring is clearly designed to support the 65 watt high beams in the H6054 OEM sealed beam headlamps. The question is if the same wiring will support twice that current load with all four Hella modules lighted simultaneously. The wiring downstream of the dimmer switch will clearly be OK, but the situation with respect to the dimmer switch itself, the headlight switch (with its built-in circuit breaker), and the wiring between them is less clear.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-20-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: You may be right, but here is the conversion table from the FSM that I relied on. It does say that, "Each AWG size is either equal to or larger than the equivalent metric size."

So is the metric size in mm's?
Meaning is a 1.0 metric wire 1.0mm?
(goggle search)
Ahh, I think I have found some good info:

http://www.ilsco.com/newweb...Pages/AWG+Wire+Sizes

Per this a metric 1.0 is really 1.14 to 1.3mm in diameter.
So the question becomes, Is the Fiero 1.0mm which would be closer to an 18 AWG or is it a metric 1.0 which is like a 16 AWG?

Either way I think the wiring should be OK, But I really don't think the headlight switch will last. I know I have seen one that was damaged due to someone splicing in a 55W pair of fog lights onto the headlight switch. The switch ran hot which soften the plastic and the switch basically fell apart. Personally if I wanted both sets of lights on at the same time, I would prefer to use two relays to control the low beams when the highs are on. In my case, It doesn't matter because I have aux driving lights already and they stay on even if the highs are on.