I need to take the front wheels off the Fiero for some new tires. While I have it up in the air, I will likely remove the two rear bolts for the front crossmember and see where the chassis side holes are.
From some preliminary measurements, the wheel flange face to the lower a-arm cross bolts were off slightly, but close. I think the a-arm to crossmember brackets are longer on the PS than on the DS.
It it wasn't "designed in", then the bolt on the chasiss would be off to the side of the hole.The rear holes are large enough for M14 bolts, but that is much too larger for some stamped steel brackets. They are likely M12 to M8 which would give them some sloppiness to accomodate this issue.
The real question is can I fix this as I design my new crossmember. At a minimum, I could add a slot to the passenger side that would allow the current hole as well as the hole that matches the drivers side.
Doesn't the front member have a large pin on each side to locate the member exactly the same position every time it is removed and reinstalled? I don't remember if that was just pre88 or all Fieros? But the bolts wouldn't have any affect at all on locating the member if the pins are there. I seem to remember them being but the spring towers.
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Doesn't the front member have a large pin on each side to locate the member exactly the same position every time it is removed and reinstalled? I don't remember if that was just pre88 or all Fieros? But the bolts wouldn't have any affect at all on locating the member if the pins are there. I seem to remember them being but the spring towers.
There is a single pin on the DS in between the two crossemember to frame bolt holes by the upper a-arms.
The real question is can I fix this as I design my new crossmember. At a minimum, I could add a slot to the passenger side that would allow the current hole as well as the hole that matches the drivers side.
Even BMW slots holes to deal with production tolerances. One corner of a crossmember will be the "anchor" with a round hole. The other hole on the same side will be slotted slightly fore/aft, while both holes on the other side will be slotted left/right.
Spent a few hours detailing the stock cradle in AutoCAD. All the suspension points are within about 0.005", but some of the crossmember shapes are appoximates. This crossmember I modified to remove the bump stop pad and trimmed the area around the spring perch. The main reason for this is to document the stock suspension setup for comparison to the new setup once I design it.
I have to be out of town Monday night to Tuesday night and have some orders to process, so it will be a few more days until I can get back to this.
Did you make a 3D model? Are you willing to share?
Originally posted by Will: Did you make a 3D model? Are you willing to share?
Just a 2D version. Have the drivers side view, but haven't finished the front, rear, or passenger side views. Once I came across the significant variation, I wanted to figure that out and determine how I proceed with the drawing (detail as fabricated or as designed).
If we were talking 0.030" it wouldn't be a big deal and I would just make everything symetrical in the drawing and account for the variation with hole slots in the appropriate direction. When things are off 0.125+" then I need to have a better understanding of why.
Got the new front tires mounted today that match the new rear ones I purchased on the HRPT. Bridgestone RE-11 tires were discontinued so I went with Bridgestone RE-71. While the front of the car was up, I tried to check out the rear bolts, bt they are covered with the coolant tubes. So I didn't go much further with that.
Started playing around with the hole issue on the rear stands in AutoCAD. I went ahead and mirrored the hole from the left to the right. From there, I added a centered M12 bolt to the right and then mirrored it back to the left. It fits both sides. So I decided to use the Left hole in the cradle and slot the old on the right. It is hidden from view by the bolt, but the right cap has the centerline for the right hole and the mirrored left hole cut into the leading edge.
Once I was good with that, then I made the caps, welded them in place and smoothed out the welds.
Finsihed rear stands and removed the two rear jack bolt supports:
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-18-2025).]
Should have had the front cradle attachment stands completed today, but I think either the power supply or the motion controller went out on my plasma table. I have a note into Langmuir and will call them in the morning. Of coarse it happened right as I was getting ready to cut the top plates out. The table has worked near flawlessly for the last 5 years, so I can't complain.
Here are the front stands with the tabs welded to them and the 5/8 bolts welded to the tabs:
Here is the drawing for the top plates. The right side was treated the same way as the rears with slotting.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-19-2025).]
You've had way better luck with your langmuir than I have. I'm on my third torch fire relay board and my second THC module.... One of the fire control relay boards failed on my second or third cut.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
Originally posted by ericjon262: You've had way better luck with your langmuir than I have. I'm on my third torch fire relay board and my second THC module.... One of the fire control relay boards failed on my second or third cut.
Getting my plasma table back up and running is becoming spendy...
I purchased mine in May 2020 and it used Mach 3 for the table control software. I also upgraded to the XL version of the table at the same time to maximize the cut area, which was an early upgrade. My table has a bad motion control board and it was proprietary to Langmuir and unique for Mach 3 control. Langmuir has obsoleted everything with Mach 3, so I can't purchase a $50-$100 control board.
I have to upgrade to FireControl software, which also means I have to get an entire new power panel enclosure. Basically everything electrical on my table except the actual X &Y servo motors will be new. However, these are now only available with the THC for the Z-axis, which my early table did not have (nor really need). So I also have to upgrade to the THC. What complicates that is my XL upgrade predated the THC upgrade and they eventually switched to a thicker tube to support the additional cantilevered weight of the Z-axis servo, brackets, and lead screw... so I also have to purchase and swap out one of the Y axis tubes...
It will cost $817 and a few hours of work to get my table back up and running... Parts are currently in transit with a Saturday delivery, so I will likely do all this work this coming weekend.
I really like this CNC plasma table, so it will be $$$ well spent, but I would have preferred to swap out the board and be back running in minutes vs. hours.
Thats a bummer that it will cost you that much to get it running again... I will say, back during the 'vid, I got a chance to try and play with a MACH 3 langmiur, it was kinda a nightmare compared to the firecontrol software. I think you will like that aspect of the "upgrace"
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
Thats a bummer that it will cost you that much to get it running again... I will say, back during the 'vid, I got a chance to try and play with a MACH 3 langmiur, it was kinda a nightmare compared to the firecontrol software. I think you will like that aspect of the "upgrace"
Time will tell. I didn't mind Mach 3, as it didn't need much input. My workflow is:
Draw the part in NanoCAD 5 & save as .dxf (this has a very sililar feel to AutoCAD that I use for work).
Import .dxf file into SheetCAM for tool path assignments and generate the .tap file.
Import .tap file into Mach 3,
Load the table with the right metal,
Change consumables,
Set torch height,
Use Mach 3 arrow buttons to inch the torch to the proper zero point,
Set the proper zero for X & Y
Press Cycle Start to begin cutting.
When I need to pause the cut - press space bar.
Press Cycle Start to resume cutting.
On my table, I have several of the slats removed so there is about a 12" unsupported section that allows the parts to just fall into the water table and avoids much of the concern with tip ups. It leaves slight nub on the part that is easily smoothed out. For larger parts, as the final outer cut is made, I place magnets behind the torch cut path to help support the larger parts as the torch reaches the end of the final cut.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-24-2025).]
I ran a fleebay CNC plasma with mach 3 and a Chinese's control/driver board. I went through 3 PCs from failed motherboards. I upgraded to a Masso Controller. I think PCs arent meant to live in vicinity of the HF noise a plasma produces.
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: I think PCs arent meant to live in vicinity of the HF noise a plasma produces.
Here is my old setup with the control box basically right on top of the plasma. The board that went bad on mine is in the upper right of the control panel. With the panel upgrade, I am going to try to move them a little further away.
"Most" of the upgrade arrived yesterday, so I started working on that. The stiffer lower rail is missing and they didn't include the 50:1 voltage stepper connector for my plasma cutter (it probably came in the original box 5 years ago, but it is long since gone.). I have asked Langmuir about providing it, also found it on-line, and ordered 2, but they are a week + out. Plan B is to do the direct wire option where I have to run 2 new wires into the electrical panel on the plasma.
If you notice, originally, I mounted the plasma cutter under the control panel. This made the plasma table stick out about 12" further from the wall than it needed to be. It was fine for 5 years, but made getting the drivetrain in and out of the bay very tight, so decided to move the control panel and plasma cutter up under the table to gain back precious space in my my grarage. I also ordetred the needed extension cables for the X & Y servo motors as they barely reached the stock control panel location.
I am still working on the final placement for those, so no pictures yet, but all the mounting brackets for the old positions have been removed and pushed the table back into its home closer to the wall and leveled it with my machinist level (just a construction bubble level before).
When I installed the Z-Axis I manually moved the torch head to the mechanical limits of the table.
In the Y direction, the water table is 34 3/8" long. At the minimim Y limit, the torch is now cutting air and about 1 3/4" past the edge of the water table. At the maximim Y limit, the torch is still in the water table, but 2 3/4" from the edge. Most of this is due to the Z-axis taking up more space and shifting the torch toward minimum Y. Not sure if the new lower rail will shift the X-Y carriage to account for this. If It doesn't, then I will likely relocate some holes and do the relocation (vs shifting the water table towards minimim Y).
The X-axis has a similar issue, but for a different reason, and has been there from day one. At minimum X, the torch is in the water table, but 2 5/8" from the edge of the water table. At maximum X, the torch is also in the water table, but 1" from the edge. The Water table in the X direction is 28 5/8", but the mechanical limits of travel are 3 5/8" less or 25".
The current X-rail stops about 2 1/4" from the outer edge of the machine, and the lead screw support bracket that is the mechanical maximim X limit is 3" from the edge of the machine. Since I purchased the orininal Crossfire and then upgraged to the XL, I still have the original machined Y-rail (41.5") which is 5 1/2" longer than the X-rail. With some hole pattern transferring, I can extend the X-axis by up to 3" without going past the current foot print of the machine. I will need to purchase a longer lead screw, as I can't find the original one for the Y-axis.
The frame of the machine is made from 2x2 tube, so by removing the outer 2" tube that is parallel with the Y-rail and replacing it with some 1/4" bar stock, I can shift the water table 2" towards maximim X. Doing so will get me close to 28" of available X-travel and near fully utilize the limits of the water table.
Here is a sketch of the shifting the water table toward minimim Y and maximim X to better utilize its limited space.
I am off on Monday getting new HVAC installed in the house, so I should be able to make some more progress, while waiting on other parts to arrive.
While waiting for the HVAC guys to install the new furnace & AC, I finished up the bracket to hold the control box under the water table (it still needs painted). Then the servo motor cable extensions arrived, so I decided to hook everything up and test it out, without finishing the mount bracket for the plasma cutter.
Learned I needed up update sheetCAM for the FireControl Post, so looked up how to do that. Then I learned I needed to updat all my tools in Sheet Cam, so did that. Also, learned that all my cut files to this point will have to reran with the new tools and post, as they do not work with FireControl... not thrilled about that! So reran the files for the caps on the front cradle fixture support and the F40 shifter bracket.
I am still waiting on the connector needed for the Z-Axis torch voltage control, so I turned off the Z-Axis, setup my tools for no-Z-Axis, and ran a couple of files.
It feels better knowing that the plasma table is back in operation, even it all the upgrades are not 100% functional!
Congrats on getting the table back together, I bet that felt nice to have off your back.
is the frame jig meant to be used for helping your pursuit of AWD greatness?
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
Originally posted by ericjon262: is the frame jig meant to be used for helping your pursuit of AWD greatness?
Yes, that is one of the purposes, but that will be at a later date. The first iteration will just be RWD but with power steering, a quicker rack, and some weight reduction. I am planning to lower the main side tubes atleast 1/2" to maximize the space for the flipped rear differential and integrate and open path for axles. Ideally the differential could be added later without a complete redesign, just some added tubes/supports.
Had to do some maintenance on the 2007 Colorado today...
I had a work trip to Port Washington, WI on Thursday last week, so I drove up Wednesday night and drove back on Thursday night. On the way back the truck started struggling to go up hills and was kicking down 2 gears. About 2 hrs from home it wouldn't keep up with interstate traffic anymore, so I took the next exit and did some preliminary checks. It wasn't missfiring, but I was down on power and didn't really want to rev more than 3000 rpm. So I stuck to side roads and kept it under 65 mph and got the truck home.
Once I got home, hooked up the scanner and the fuel trims were in the 10-15% range, but didn't climb with RPM or throttle. Drove it to work on Friday and then tore into it on Saturday. Whatever the issue is, it wasn't setting any DTCs.
Started with easy things: Checked air filter - fine, but replaced as I can't remember when it was changed last. Cleaned the MAF Verified the thottle body went 100% open Checked fuel pressure - it was closed to 60 psi, which is good. Changed the oil - it was way past due and could cause the VVT not to work right, but that would set a code.
Symtoms and lack of DTCs indicated it simply wasn't puming air, but air fuel was maintaining, it wasn't mis-firing, and the intake path wasn't the cause. So clogged catalytic converter... to the truck's credit, it just passed 275K miles and it was the OEM catalytic converter. Fixed that, and the truck is now back to its normal power level.
Today was likely the last 70 degree day for this year, so I took the Fiero out for a couple of hours and washed before putting it back in the garage:
The car now has 12,900 miles in the last 2 years with the turbo, and about 68K miles with the LS4 swap since 2013. Time to work on some of the winter upgrades for it, but the plan is to keep the drivetrain in the car.
Decided to modify forty 1/2" carriage bolts so that the square under the head is 5/8" OD and trued up the underside of the head for use on the mounting tabs. 10 of them I turned the head down to 1.000" OD, so they can use used to square up parts on the table and be 0.500" off the hole pattern on the table.
I drew up the lower mounting tabs for the sway bar supports, and the brackets to locate the rack from the crossmember to frame bolt holes in the center. So on Sunday should be able to get those items welded up.
Also finished the brackets to locate the stock steering rack location.
Here is the current list of proposed winter upgrades:
A2W Intercooler
Radiator fan (support A2W heat exchanger)
Clutch Tamer/Launch Control
Front VSS/Traction Control
Flex Fuel
Alpine 2DIN radio/NAV housing w/ 4 gauges
As you notice, the front tubular cradle isn't on the list. While I plan to keep working on it, I am being realistic that it likely will not be ready by spring.
I am about 80% sure on using the A2W intercooler in this location. I just want to verify placement of the plastic wheel well liner to the planned location of the intercooler before I start cutting sheet metal.
With the A2W direction being mostly finalized, I am already planning for the heat exchanger to be up front and ahead of the radiator. That means that the heat from the 250+ degree pre-intercooler/post turbo air temps will move to the front of the radiator. So while every swap I have done in the last 20+ years has kept the stock fiero radiator fan, I will be upgrading to a higher amp/higher flow fan.
I am partially done with the fan upgrade. I kept the stock Fiero radiator shroud (one of my spares - not the one on the car currently) and installed a higher flow/higher amp 16" fan. The one I chose was the Proform 67037. It is rated at 3300 cfm and 24+ amp draw. There are several posts on the forum installing 16" Proform fans, but I think most use a lower amp version to keep the wiring stock. https://www.proformparts.co...olt-16-inch-3300-cfm This means that I will have to run a larger relay and a dedicated power feed from the battery. To install the fan, I trimmed the brackets and tabs on the new fan until it fit in the fiero shroud. This added 4 spacers between the two and used 4 rivets to secure it. Once that was done, I filled the gap between the two making it air tight. Here is what it looks like right now. I still need to find a 35+amp connector and relay.
For the clutch tamer, I looked at several options but settled on the Hitmaster. I like that it is volume based vs. pulsing a solenoid, it is decently priced, and I can likely integrate it into haltech control and use a CAN button for it. http://clutchtamer.com/ (scroll the 2nd version)
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-16-2025).]
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Is this to make the clutch dumping process repeatable for consistent launches?
Is this for drivetrain durability?
It does both. This particular one has an adjustable cylinder that allows an adjustabe fixed volume of fluid to return from the HTOB when you side step the clutch. That volume is to get you to the point the clutch starts to grab, but not 100% engaged. This allows you to dial in a specific amount of slip. It holds that point for an adjustable amount of time, then releases the rest of the fluid to lock up the clutch. It allows consistant slip/engagement for every launch w/o shock loading the drivetrain.
A couple of the other versions just cycle a solenoid based on an adjustable time from side stepping the clutch, it then holds for an adjustable time, then it releases fully.
Being a mechanical guy, I like the volume limiting solution.
Made more progress picking up the upper a-arm slots as well as the top of the shock mount. I did extend the a-arm slots about 3/16" outboard to assist with alignment when lowered. Still need to add another brace on the forward side (similar to the ones on the rear side).
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-22-2025).]
I picked up a new propane tank, warmed up the garage, and finsihed adding the 2nd brace to the stock fiero upper a-arm and shock location brackets:
However, with the aluminum upper and lower a-arms for the custom suspension, I don't need any of that stuff (rack location, upper a-arm location, and shock location), but wanted to knock those out before moving on.
Those two brackets were removed, then I started making additional stands, support bars, and picked up the center crossmember to frame bolts and dowel pin.
Of course, I ran out of welding wire while... shoveled about 5" of snow from the driveway and ran to the hardware store for more welding wire. Figured it would be worse in the morning...
Also started working on the new pickup locations. I am waiting on the upper ball joint to cut it open for precise measurments on the knuckle, but this is pretty close. It has -1.0 static camber.
Here is it with 3 degrees of roll. The loaded wheel still have -0.4 degrees camber.
The upper balljoint came in today and I cut it up and installed it.
The drawing for the front knuckle is now done and I have taken the liberty to remove the steering arm from the drawing. A custom one will be made to more closely match the stock Fiero placement, but 1" lower than stock. It can go lower if the rack can be lowered further. One of the goals is to have the rack as low as possible with the tubular cradle to maximize available space for a front differential at a later date.
The drawing for the front knuckle is now done and I have taken the liberty to remove the steering arm from the drawing. A custom one will be made to more closely match the stock Fiero placement, but 1" lower than stock. It can go lower if the rack can be lowered further. One of the goals is to have the rack as low as possible with the tubular cradle to maximize available space for a front differential at a later date.
Do you have a new, shorter steering rack planned? EDIT: NVM I spy a C4 rack installed on the jig.
[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 12-04-2025).]
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: Do you have a new, shorter steering rack planned? EDIT: NVM I spy a C4 rack installed on the jig.
The current rack is a 4th gen camaro rack, but I may switch to a C4 rack as the angle for the steering staft is closer to the fiero angle. I do want a quicker steering with fewer turns lock to lock, but might look for an electric assist rack (not column -again fewer rotations lock to lock is the goal).
The current rack is a 4th gen camaro rack, but I may switch to a C4 rack as the angle for the steering staft is closer to the fiero angle. I do want a quicker steering with fewer turns lock to lock, but might look for an electric assist rack (not column -again fewer rotations lock to lock is the goal).
Electric power steering certainly simplifies the installation.
I've been thinking about a column-based EPS along with a steering quickener to replace the OE steering shaft.
