Aaron, I think the engine tranny combo will be mounted solid...I think the way it was mounted before (solid engine and rubber mounted tranny) we are asking for metal flex and failure. I have done research and it makes no sense to solid mount one end and not the other.
Also, the 4 cylinder pump will be in the tank, then we add a regulator with a return to hopefully eliminate the bad bog on take off. The fuel pump on it now has no regulator or return to tank.
86soon3.4, your build posts typically seem very well thought out to me (which is why I enjoy them), but a couple of your recent ones on this thread have puzzled me a bit.
I've searched the last 10 electronic pages of this thread, and didn't see what engine swap you were pursuing for BigJake34.
Your brief reference on electronic page 56 to "...maybe research a 4.9 v8 air cleaner?" suggests to me a 4.9L Caddy swap, but I don't know that.
Related to that, why do you say:
quote
Originally posted by 86soon3.4: ...I think the engine tranny combo will be mounted solid...I think the way it was mounted before (solid engine and rubber mounted tranny) we are asking for metal flex and failure.
What engine is that transmission supposed to be backing up?
quote
Originally posted by 86soon3.4: Also, the 4 cylinder pump will be in the tank, then we add a regulator with a return to hopefully eliminate the bad bog on take off. The fuel pump on it now has no regulator or return to tank. Steve
A "return to tank" line suggests to me a fuel-injected engine. A lack of a "return to tank" line suggests to me a carbureted one.
Accordingly, my questions are twofold:
What engine swap and fuel system set-up are you contenplating for BigJake34?
Why install a "4 cylinder pump will be in the tank"? This seems to me on the face of it, a counterintuitive solution to a potential fuel-starvation problem --- IF the engine swap is employing a V8 engine. I understand the turbocharged, 4-cylinder Pontiac Solstice GXP and Saturn Sky Redline both employed a fuel pump with enormously high fuel pressures to help compensate for the relatively recently introduced concept (at least within the U.S.) of "direct injection" technology --- wherein gasoline is injected directly into an engine's combustion chamber under enormous pressure --- instead of within that engine's intake ports. However, I wonder if even its fuel delivery volume would be adequate for a relatively hi-po, V8 engine swap, which I'd imagine BigJake34 is pursuing. Said differently, and as I'm sure you know, one can flow liquid through a steel straw at high pressure easily, but not always at a high volume --- and conversely, one can flow liquid through a steel sewer pipe at high volume easily, but not always at a high pressure.)
I've run successfully for numerous years at roughly only 7 PSI fuel pressure, a milled-off airhorn, chokeless, double-pumping, Holley-carbureted, 383 small-block plastic car, with 4:11 gears. I've never employed a 4-cylinder's engine's fuel pump to do that --- just an aftermarket Holley fuel pump, one perhaps not that dissimilar to the one earlier contemplated for BigJake34.
I get it that fuel-injection is quite different, but I've not seen what fuel-injected engine is being pursued here.
Again, I mean no argument here with you, 86soon3.4, because as I'd mentioned earlier, your posts usually seem very well thought out to me (which is why I enjoy them).
86soon3.4, your build posts typically seem very well thought out to me (which is why I enjoy them), but a couple of your recent ones on this thread have puzzled me a bit.
I've searched the last 10 electronic pages of this thread, and didn't see what engine swap you were pursuing for BigJake34.
Your brief reference on electronic page 56 to "...maybe research a 4.9 v8 air cleaner?" suggests to me a 4.9L Caddy swap, but I don't know that.
Related to that, why do you say:
A "return to tank" line suggests to me a fuel-injected engine. A lack of a "return to tank" line suggests to me a carbureted one.
Accordingly, my questions are twofold:
What engine swap and fuel system set-up are you contenplating for BigJake34?
Why install a "4 cylinder pump will be in the tank"? This seems to me on the face of it, a counterintuitive solution to a potential fuel-starvation problem --- IF the engine swap is employing a V8 engine. I understand the turbocharged, 4-cylinder Pontiac Solstice GXP and Saturn Sky Redline both employed a fuel pump with enormously high fuel pressures to help compensate for the relatively recently introduced concept (at least within the U.S.) of "direct injection" technology --- wherein gasoline is injected directly into an engine's combustion chamber under enormous pressure --- instead of within that engine's intake ports. However, I wonder if even its fuel delivery volume would be adequate for a relatively hi-po, V8 engine swap, which I'd imagine BigJake34 is pursuing. Said differently, and as I'm sure you know, one can flow liquid through a steel straw at high pressure easily, but not always at a high volume --- and conversely, one can flow liquid through a steel sewer pipe at high volume easily, but not always at a high pressure.)
I've run successfully for numerous years at roughly only 7 PSI fuel pressure, a milled-off airhorn, chokeless, double-pumping, Holley-carbureted, 383 small-block plastic car, with 4:11 gears. I've never employed a 4-cylinder's engine's fuel pump to do that --- just an aftermarket Holley fuel pump, one perhaps not that dissimilar to the one earlier contemplated for BigJake34.
I get it that fuel-injection is quite different, but I've not seen what fuel-injected engine is being pursued here.
Again, I mean no argument here with you, 86soon3.4, because as I'd mentioned earlier, your posts usually seem very well thought out to me (which is why I enjoy them).
Project34, Bigjake34 had a 383 small block swapped into his 86GT with a 4t60 non E tranny. The tranny burnt up. The swap was a shoddy job to say the least. The fuel pump that was installed was a summit high performance external pump with no fuel pressure regulator or return to tank. The fuel pick up was not very well thought up....two of the lines on top of the tank were welded shut (return and vent)
The cooling hoses were also not very well manufactured. (kinked, exhaust tube connectors and welded pipe)
The motor and tranny will be mounted solid because the Archie kit front engine mount is welded to the cradle. It makes NO sense to mount the tranny on rubber. With that being said the engine and tranny WILL be mounted solid.
The final product will be for cruises and occasional drag racing.
the engine is a 383 Chevy with a 4T65E-hd. The tranny will be manually shifted using a controller made by Magna Shift.
Project34, Bigjake34 had a 383 small block swapped into his 86GT with a 4t60 non E tranny. The tranny burnt up. The swap was a shoddy job to say the least. The fuel pump that was installed was a summit high performance external pump with no fuel pressure regulator or return to tank. The fuel pick up was not very well thought up....two of the lines on top of the tank were welded shut (return and vent)
The cooling hoses were also not very well manufactured. (kinked, exhaust tube connectors and welded pipe)
The motor and tranny will be mounted solid because the Archie kit front engine mount is welded to the cradle. It makes NO sense to mount the tranny on rubber. With that being said the engine and tranny WILL be mounted solid.
The final product will be for cruises and occasional drag racing.
the engine is a 383 Chevy with a 4T65E-hd. The tranny will be manually shifted using a controller made by Magna Shift.
Steve
Hello, To add, The 383 is 4-bolt main 350 block bored .040 over, Kieth Black hypereutectic pistons, Scat crank, fairly stout solid lift tight lash cam ( exact grind escapes me ) with Dart II Iron Eagle Heads, 1:6 Scorpion roller rockers, Sampson shorty headers, topped with a Wieand Stealth intake and Edelbrock AVS 650 vac secondary carb. All tucked nicely into my 1986 cradle with a full Archie Kit. It used to drive a non-E 4t60 which as stated, promptly failed. More than likely due to the excessive HP and torque, and the shoddy workmanship during install. The fuel feed issue was definitely caused by the awesome "custom" work done. The install was completed by a group of friends who volunteered to do it for me while I was deployed to Afghanistan. Of that group, only 1 cared enough about the job to be sure it got done, the others lost interest and their effort was lackluster at best. Most importantly, they were not Fiero guys, just hot rod guys. When i brought the car back up to Wisconsin to be fixed, my friend was unable to find time to fix the fuel issue. I asked for assistance from the club to "go through" my car. Steve, started digging and uncovered the issues, some minor, some dangerous and some that are just good ideas for v-8 swaps in our little cars. Since it's my car I figured I'd chime in with a bit of background.
Originally posted by 86soon3.4: Project34, Bigjake34 had a 383 small block swapped into his 86GT with a 4t60 non E tranny. The tranny burnt up. The swap was a shoddy job to say the least. The fuel pump that was installed was a summit high performance external pump with no fuel pressure regulator or return to tank. The fuel pick up was not very well thought up....two of the lines on top of the tank were welded shut (return and vent)
The cooling hoses were also not very well manufactured. (kinked, exhaust tube connectors and welded pipe)
The motor and tranny will be mounted solid because the Archie kit front engine mount is welded to the cradle. It makes NO sense to mount the tranny on rubber. With that being said the engine and tranny WILL be mounted solid.
The final product will be for cruises and occasional drag racing. the engine is a 383 Chevy with a 4T65E-hd. The tranny will be manually shifted using a controller made by Magna Shift.
Thanks for your clarifying response, 86soon3.4.
With all you (thankfully) found for BigJake34 that was wrong with the execution of the original swap, I'm surprised to learn the original 383 engine swap (as opposed to just its tranny) apparently didn't grenade itself as well. Wow!
quote
Originally posted by : ...the engine and tranny WILL be mounted solid.
That makes sense to me, and is similar to my set-up. Some people have contended that such a solid-mounted set-up transmits an unacceptable amount of vibrations into the interior of a car, but I personally didn't find that to be the case. Besides, if one wants the experience of feeling like they're riding in some old-school Cadillac, then why not just buy some old-school Cadillac?
quote
Originally posted by Bigjake34: To add, The 383 is 4-bolt main 350 block bored .040 over, Kieth Black hypereutectic pistons, Scat crank, fairly stout solid lift tight lash cam ( exact grind escapes me ) with Dart II Iron Eagle Heads, 1:6 Scorpion roller rockers, Sampson shorty headers, topped with a Wieand Stealth intake and Edelbrock AVS 650 vac secondary carb. All tucked nicely into my 1986 cradle with a full Archie Kit. It used to drive a non-E 4t60 which as stated, promptly failed. More than likely due to the excessive HP and torque, and the shoddy workmanship during install. The fuel feed issue was definitely caused by the awesome "custom" work done. The install was completed by a group of friends who volunteered to do it for me while I was deployed to Afghanistan. Of that group, only 1 cared enough about the job to be sure it got done, the others lost interest and their effort was lackluster at best. Most importantly, they were not Fiero guys, just hot rod guys. When i brought the car back up to Wisconsin to be fixed, my friend was unable to find time to fix the fuel issue. I asked for assistance from the club to "go through" my car. Steve, started digging and uncovered the issues, some minor, some dangerous and some that are just good ideas for v-8 swaps in our little cars. Since it's my car I figured I'd chime in with a bit of background.
Thanks for your clarifying response, as well, BigJake34.
You were fortunate 86soon3.4 found the time to "go through" the original 383 engine swap and note its several executional limitations.
Your parts combination (possibly excepting the cam and engine compression ratio, whose specs may be unknown) seems a reasonable one to me, likely far more suitable for the street --- and maybe even (gasp!) winter driving --- than is my more race-oriented 383 set-up.
For example, your 383's Weiand intake manifold, a theoretically more low-end, torque-oriented, "dual-plane" design than is the single-plane Edelbrock Victor Junior design on my 383, has heat-riser crossover passages to facilitate starting in cold weather. Mine doesn't, and it wouldn't matter if it did, because its cylinder heads don't have a provision to accommodate them. Also, your Edelbrock 650 cfm AVS vacuum-secondaries carburetor is far more practical in cold weather because it has a choke, whereas my double-pumping Holley doesn't, and with its purposely milled-off airhorn, likely never will.
I am not so narrow-minded so as to believe the specifics of my 383 engine swap automatically somehow make it better than yours, and that you should do exactly whatever I have done. That would be silly on my part to assume that. For example, I've 4.11:1 gears in my car as well as a higher stall converter in its transmission. However, the car in which my 383 resides also is much heavier than yours, and therefore I'd think a high-torque, 383 SBC "stroker motor" Fiero likely would be in need of neither of those additional torque-multiplying modifications which I've employed in my car.
My guess is that the much bigger challenge for your 383 set-up will be to transmit successfully all its power to the ground in such a relatively light car as a Fiero --- without spinning its tires unduly at the starting line, if you take it to a drag strip. By the way, I've no idea if you've ever raced there, but I recommend going to WIR (Wisconsin International Raceway) in Kaukauna, Wisconsin. Their quarter-mile drag strip operation always has struck me as one which has been run noticeably more safely than that of other relatively nearby (Wisconsin or Illinois) tracks at which I've been.
In any case, take care and good luck to you with your project!
I have, indeed, been to the track with my little car....lol that's where i found the fuel issue. It was a test and tune night at the Clarksville, TN speedway. 1/8mi track I almost think that's all they have down here. Only usable consistent time on time slip was the 60ft times which were all around 1.7 sec. My little 4t60 launched pretty good ( probably how the forward clutch pack got welded...lol) but it hooks up pretty good. All of the cars weight being on the drive wheels helps a lot, plus a 3500 stall will help a bit more. I'm running 11:1 compression and basic cam stats are... valve lift .510 int/ .519 ext .... Duration @.050 .244 int / .248 ext .... 108 center this is approx what is in there. We went to a slightly bigger cam but this one is close.
WOOT>>>WOOT>>>WOOT!!! Ok I have a question or more specifically, my son has a question. He is too afraid to join forum...lol He has an 87 GT. He is having an issue when driving he says the car Tach will rev to 3000 and bounce between 1500 and 3000, but engine rpm will not actually change, he says when this happens the engine power fluctuates and eventually dies. He says its random, engine at normal operating temp, has been happening with more frequency. no other issues noted. What is it? I'm thinking sensor maybe MAP or TPS or his ECM, but these are just guesses. I'd like to get him back on the road ASAP as he is driving my regular car and I need it...lol any assist will be appreciated.
WOOT>>>WOOT>>>WOOT!!! Ok I have a question or more specifically, my son has a question. He is too afraid to join forum...lol He has an 87 GT. He is having an issue when driving he says the car Tach will rev to 3000 and bounce between 1500 and 3000, but engine rpm will not actually change, he says when this happens the engine power fluctuates and eventually dies. He says its random, engine at normal operating temp, has been happening with more frequency. no other issues noted. What is it? I'm thinking sensor maybe MAP or TPS or his ECM, but these are just guesses. I'd like to get him back on the road ASAP as he is driving my regular car and I need it...lol any assist will be appreciated.
Jake
Bad ignition module most likely culprit, they are notorious for failure
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 09-21-2013).]
After changing the module and the coil, things worked fine for most of the day. However; when I was about to head home, the problems resumed. This time it was at very low RPMs and it seemed as though the engine was missing strokes. It was fine while idling though.
After changing the module and the coil, things worked fine for most of the day. However; when I was about to head home, the problems resumed. This time it was at very low RPMs and it seemed as though the engine was missing strokes. It was fine while idling though.
I think LittleJake and I figured out his issue. He said that the car wont fire now. I think maybe his coil wire came loose. I also know he snapped a bolt on the Ignition module so its held in by only one. His distributor looks like crap, so I think we will replace the distributor. Hopefully that will get him up and running.
Hey guys, how are you all doing? I've been on vacation in Mexico and am now slowly moving to Whitewater Wi. Rob I'll call you next week sometime. Anything going on now that the lovely winter weather is taking hold?
Hey guys, how are you all doing? I've been on vacation in Mexico and am now slowly moving to Whitewater Wi. Rob I'll call you next week sometime. Anything going on now that the lovely winter weather is taking hold?
Well, I finally finished stripping anything useful off the parts car now I need it to go to gibbys I called them today and they will only give us 50 bucks for it if they come to get it. Good thing is they do not need title with it so its outa here It was going to cost me 60 bucks to rent trailer.
Hi guys, I hope everyone has had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. This thread has been quiet for awhile, what's going on? I'm mostly down in Whitewater now and out of my Oshkosh house, but my car is still hibernating up there in my garage. I have seenquite a few Fierosin the Janesville area since I've been down here, are there any local Pennocks members nearby? Rob how are things going? I'll call you this week.
This thread has been quiet for awhile, what's going on?
I'm not sure, but maybe our early winter, with its excessive snow, wind, and cold, has put a damper on people's activities, focusing their attentions elsewhere. For example, I know that during December, I'd shoveled snow on more days than I hadn't, and sometimes it was too dangerously cold to do even that.
Originally posted by av8fiero: I have seenquite a few Fierosin the Janesville area since I've been down here, are there any local Pennocks members nearby?.
Maybe. (I'll explain....)
AIthough I assume it's not always kept current, there are nine Pennock's Fiero Forum members in Janesville, Wisconsin, according to the "PFF Member List".
However, further investigation reveals that five of those nine Pennock's members in Janesville never have posted anything on PFF. Also, each of the remaining four Pennock's members in Janesville never has registered more than 14 posts, despite each having become a PFF member during 2009 or even before then.
That somewhat discouraging news aside, you may be interested in the steps required for you to access the "PFF Member List" for any location:
Note that if you already have logged onto PFF, you can disregard Steps 1, 2, and 3.
Then, near the upper left of that PFF page, click the word in dark yellow, "here" (to login).
On the page which then comes up, enter "Your Username" followed by "Your password" and then click the "Login" button.
Near the upper right of the PFF page that comes up, click the rectangular "Memberlist" button.
Now focus your attention only on the three rectangles displayed near the upper left of the "Member List" page: the blue "Search by" button, the white rectangle to its immediate right, and the longer black rectangle beneath both.
At the white rectangle, use the arrow to scroll to "Location".
WithIn the black rectangle, type in whatever is the location of interest to you (e.g., Janesville)..
Click the blue "Search by" button.
Note that when searching for PFF members at a different location, always be sure to repeat Step 6.
So guys in the fox valley I turn to you I've come close a few times to finding the right next fiero but either have passed because of price or shape hoping you guys can help me out and id love to help others out as well in the area. I'm looking for the "ugly" fiero that runs and drives but needs everything cosmetically done to ie interior paint body work. Don't care year or trim package looking for around 1500 asap. I need get one soon I'm having the itch 4 fieros 4 years has a nice ring. Pm me for number or throw me a link. Thanks guys hope this goes well
------------------ One mans dream another mans project
So guys in the fox valley I turn to you I've come close a few times to finding the right next fiero but either have passed because of price or shape hoping you guys can help me out and id love to help others out as well in the area. I'm looking for the "ugly" fiero that runs and drives but needs everything cosmetically done to ie interior paint body work. Don't care year or trim package looking for around 1500 asap. I need get one soon I'm having the itch 4 fieros 4 years has a nice ring. Pm me for number or throw me a link. Thanks guys hope this goes well
Hey did you stop in by that guy on j? the old dealership up the road from verbatins. He had a little red notch back I would bet he would wheel and deal on. Sweeten the deal a bit and tell him I have the parts he is looking for if he gives ya good deal.
Hey did you stop in by that guy on j? the old dealership up the road from verbatins. He had a little red notch back I would bet he would wheel and deal on. Sweeten the deal a bit and tell him I have the parts he is looking for if he gives ya good deal.
Ya I did stop the a few times to see what he had but he is kinda high $ for what he has and the red notch he has outside doesn't run he told me I stoped there the very first day im moved up here lol. But definitely thanks for the heads up.
I'm assuming you know most the guys in the fvfc? You know if any the guys got one laying around I'd rather buy one from a fiero guy so I get a fair assessment of what it would need
Ya I did stop the a few times to see what he had but he is kinda high $ for what he has and the red notch he has outside doesn't run he told me I stoped there the very first day im moved up here lol. But definitely thanks for the heads up.
I'm assuming you know most the guys in the fvfc? You know if any the guys got one laying around I'd rather buy one from a fiero guy so I get a fair assessment of what it would need
If I had the garage space I'd really be interested but with no drive train as of now more mechanical than I wanna tackle definitely thanks for the thought though...ps sorry took so long respond watch out for that flu going around wth 24 hours of disaster
Damn it's cold! Someone turn the heat on! ...........
.......Rob I'll call you tomorrow. I'm hoping to get my car to your place this coming weekend. Hopefully we can get my project done after we finish the rottenchop up.
Damn it's cold! Someone turn the heat on! ...........
.......Rob I'll call you tomorrow. I'm hoping to get my car to your place this coming weekend. Hopefully we can get my project done after we finish the rottenchop up.
Hmmm dunno I better drive seeing on Facebook you tend to like to park in the ditch with trailers lol!! I figured the trouble ya had is why I did not hear from you this weekend I will make room for it next to johns car this week then we can get cracking on both of them when the arctic conditions finally go away!
Thanks Rob for letting me leave my car at your place. I didn't get stuck in a snowbank on the way LOL! I'm looking for a solid roof panel and an 84 rear decklid, if you have those pieces don't get rid of them. I'm looking to trade my complete factory subwoofer system with new Rodney sub speaker [works great!],compass rearview mirror, andsome brand new 160watt b-pillar speakers for those parts and some bodywork labor if you're interested
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 03-11-2014).]
Thanks Rob for letting me leave my car at your place. I didn't get stuck in a snowbank on the way LOL! I'm looking for a solid roof panel and an 84 rear decklid, if you have those pieces don't get rid of them. I'm looking to trade my complete factory subwoofer system with new Rodney sub speaker [works great!],compass rearview mirror, andsome brand new 160watt b-pillar speakers for those parts and some bodywork labor if you're interested
I have a 84 deck lid in the dog pen, it's all yours. Shall I toss that hood on it and start over fresh with another? LOL I was looking at your windshield idea you have going there and I think we should trim off the bottom of it to match the natural curve of the fiero glass. That way we can still use the fiero windshield wiper pivot points. all we would have to modify then is the lip the window sits in. Go to the bone yard and have that sill/lip cut out of the car you got the window from and we can cut out the fiero one and weld the new shape one in its place. then all we need to do is glue the window down and keep the structural soundness intact in that area. Saftey first!!!!
