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LS4 / F40 swap - fieroguru by fieroguru
Started on: 12-13-2010 01:34 PM
Replies: 1263 (100222 views)
Last post by: fieroguru on 10-08-2017 05:47 PM
Jims88
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Report this Post11-30-2013 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jims88Send a Private Message to Jims88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

fieroguru:

I know you're busy with many things, I hate to impose on your time, although if you happen to get a chance could you explain how you created the bubble on the end of the fuel filter assembly.
I was thinking you may have used some kind of flaring tool?

Thank You!

Jim

[QUOTE][B]Originally posted by fieroguru:
Then it was time to install the fuel tank and filter assy. Since I wasn't using the GM quick disconnects, I put a little bubble at the end to help ensure the hoses stay put:



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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-30-2013 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

For that original filter, I used a double flare tool to enlarge the end. I am on filter # 3 or 4 (super rusty tank that is not clean) and haven't bothered to flare the ends of the filters since the first one. Since I pushed the hoses over the quick disconnect flange on the nipples anyway, I just put the hose clamps between the filter and the flange so they can't slide off.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-30-2013 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

General update... car is still running fine but it came out of DD rotation last week.

The week prior the temps were down in the 20's for my drive into work and the summer only rear tires were quite slick. It has snowed a few days in the past week and the roads have salt on them. So I am back driving the 2.5/125C fiero... The heater works better in the 2.5L fiero though, so that is nice!

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Jims88
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Report this Post11-30-2013 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jims88Send a Private Message to Jims88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Thank You fieroguru!

One less thing to have too do.

Jim

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-21-2013 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just a winter update on the Dyna-Batt battery. It seems to be doing quite well. I have started the car when it was 16 degrees out as well as started the car after it sat for 2 weeks with temps dropping into the 20's... so far the battery is holding up during the winter months!

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motoracer838
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Report this Post12-21-2013 12:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Holley recently put up a youtube vid of LS fest 2013, caught a quick look of your car in it.

Joe

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-21-2013 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Holley recently put up a youtube vid of LS fest 2013, caught a quick look of your car in it.

Joe


Thanks for the heads up!

At 1:54 you can see my car for a second or two:

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LS4-GT88
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Report this Post12-23-2013 08:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LS4-GT88Click Here to Email LS4-GT88Send a Private Message to LS4-GT88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Is this an invite only event? I would love to bring my Fiero out and play along with you.

[This message has been edited by LS4-GT88 (edited 12-23-2013).]

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-23-2013 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by LS4-GT88:

Is this an invite only event? I would love to bring my Fiero out and play along with you.



Nope. Its a 3 days event and $150 gets you the all access pass and pretty much unlimited autocross and drag strip runs. I showed up late the first day and still got in twelve 1/4 mile passes, 10 autocross runs, and eight 3S runs (shortened autocross with a tight 180 turn and a stop box). well worth the $$ in my book! There were only 2 Fieros there this year, but the other one (LS3/F40) only paid for the 1/4 mile access.

I would love to have some other fiero friends come to participate or watch... need someone to take some better videos!

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Jims88
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Report this Post12-24-2013 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jims88Send a Private Message to Jims88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That was cool to see you Fiero competing, looks like they were using a leaf blower to blow off all the tire rubber ?
So what took the Grand Champion title?

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-24-2013 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Jims88:

That was cool to see you Fiero competing, looks like they were using a leaf blower to blow off all the tire rubber ?
So what took the Grand Champion title?


The leaf blower was used after the drift competition (that was invitation only).

The winner was Danny Popp with his C3 Vette shown here. He took 1st place in the Autocross and 3S:

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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-10-2014 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Someone asked me for the torque specs for the LS4, so here they are:



Over the holiday I spent $25 to have Pat G spec a non-DoD camshaft for my swap using the flow information for all my parts, manual transmission, 3.55 final drive, and my request to break 400 whp and have more low end torque. He spec'd a camshaft with EPS HiRev lobes, more lift, less duration, and 4 degrees less overlap. This new camshaft will probably lower the RPM of my peak HP, but won't know until I swap it in and dyno it (won't happen till mid summer). If its too low, I can retard the cam 2-4 degrees to raise it up some.

New Cam specs:
EPS HiRev lobes, 222/226, .604”/.604”, 113 LSA +3 advance

Valve events at .050"
Intake Valve opens 1 BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
Intake Valve closes 41 ABDC
Exhaust Valve Opens 49 BBDC
Exhaust Valve Closes -3 ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
Exhaust Centerline 116
Overlap -2 degrees

For comparison, here is the current DoD camshaft
224/232 .564”/.575” 113 LSA

Valve events at .050"
Intake Valve opens -3.5 BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
Intake Valve closes 47.5 ABDC
Exhaust Valve Opens 46 BBDC
Exhaust Valve Closes 5.5 ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
Overlap 2 degrees

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Kemp3
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Report this Post01-10-2014 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kemp3Click Here to Email Kemp3Send a Private Message to Kemp3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am real happy with what Pat spec'ed for me , Geoff @ EPS is also a great guy who has a nice lobe design . If you go that route I am sure you will be happy.

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KissMySSFiero
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Report this Post01-22-2014 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Is the new cam going to work with the DOD or are you ditching DoD altogether?

What's next after Trinton's car is done?

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com

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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-22-2014 09:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

Is the new cam going to work with the DOD or are you ditching DoD altogether?

What's next after Trinton's car is done?



I am ditching DoD for a camshaft with more power and better drivabilty.

The two biggest items will be a group buy for the LS4/F40 flywheels and starter bracket, finish up the 13" brake kit for the 84-87, and then start working on a top secret project.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post01-22-2014 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


I am ditching DoD for a camshaft with more power and better drivabilty.

The two biggest items will be a group buy for the LS4/F40 flywheels and starter bracket, finish up the 13" brake kit for the 84-87, and then start working on a top secret project.



I always get intrigued when you say something like this...

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fieroguru
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Report this Post02-21-2014 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It has been warm and rained several days this week, so the roads were free of salt finally. So I took the LS4/F40 car out for a parts run drive... I love driving this thing!

The mini battery has held up pretty good. The car has sat outside all winter and never failed to start it when needed.

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Report this Post02-22-2014 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
The two biggest items will be a group buy for the LS4/F40 flywheels


When can I get one?

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fieroaddicted
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Report this Post03-03-2014 07:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroaddictedClick Here to Email fieroaddictedSend a Private Message to fieroaddictedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sick build man! Excellent work!

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fieroguru
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Report this Post03-04-2014 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
When can I get one?


It will be 1-3 months after I finish the F23/SBC swap. The longer time frame is if I go after SFI certification for them.


 
quote
Originally posted by fieroaddicted:

Sick build man! Excellent work!


Thanks!

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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-07-2014 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

My garage is now empty, so I can get back to doing some minor upgrades to this car. The main things I would like to get done this summer and before LS Fest in September:

Upgrade shifter cable to stronger version.
Swap stiffer springs front/rear
Replace the rear struts with Koni's (on order) and adjust the front Konis to full stiff.
Swap nicer dash and interior from 86 parts car along with the PW/PL

I started working on the cable upgrade a little while ago and documented most of the details here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/094069.html

The things I wanted the new shifter cable to solve were:
Stronger cable - don't want to break it again.
Proper length - old setup had one cable 4" longer than the other.
No more c-clips - had them pop off twice.

The short version is the stock Isuzu shift cable is the prefect length, it just needs the smaller ball end. Rodney hooked me up with a new isuzu cable and the right ball end. Then I fabbed up a new shift bracket to work with the Isuzu Shift and Getrag select cables using shaft collars (with machined grooves) to hold both shift cables in place. The 5 speed shifter works great and doesn't need to be modified at all. The only thing it needs is a reverse lockout.

New shifter bracket:




5 speed shifter with reverse lockout added:




New shifter cable routing (both are now the same length):


The 5 speed shifter places the gears closer (longer select lever), the shifter cable is certainly more firm shifting into 3rd, and the shaft collars will keep the cables firmly attached... so far I am really liking the upgrade, but need to do some 7K RPM upshifts to know if it will help my 1/4 mile performance.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post07-07-2014 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I love the brilliantly simple reverse lockout.

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Report this Post07-08-2014 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SteelSend a Private Message to SteelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You do brilliant work... I really enjoyed your threads and learned a lot.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-11-2014 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have been driving the car to/from work and other joy rides and really like the new shifter/cable/bracket setup. It feels like a completely different transmission. The gear spacing is tight, but the 2-3 shift just falls into place, and just feels right. The shifts feel less clunkier too. The detents feel softer as I go into each gear. I think using the select cable allowed the cable to flex slightly as the detent was depressed and made it "feel" harder. Now with the stiffer cable, I can pass through the detents with less effort. I suspect the stiffer cable provides for higher impact loads to depress the detent vs. the cable flexing and having to more slowly force them to depress.

These came in earlier this week ($341.16 shipped from Amazon), but it will be a week or two before I mess with them.


This weekend I am going to play with the front springs. The tall tapered ones have .540" wire vs. about .5" for normal Fiero front springs. The wide end ID/OD is compatible with the fiero, but the small end works with coil overs. Right now I plan to cut the small end off to get the proper ride height (and a stiffer rate than I am currently running), but some day I may use another set for the front coil overs. I can't remember the stock application for these springs, so I will have to try and find it in my notes somewhere.


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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-12-2014 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The conical springs are Moog 7634 from a 99+ Chrysler Cirrus and they cost about $55 for the pair. In stock form they are 13.5" long and have a spring rate of 265 lb/in. I cut them down to 9 1/2" long which should increase the spring rate to 350-370 lbs/in. Here is a cut one along side the stock Moog spring, the cut down 84-87 front spring, and an 88 lowering springs of some brand (suspect fiero store). As you can see the new cut down spring is shorter and the car ride height is just about the same (slightly taller to allow for some settling).


The front springs and adjusting the front Konis to be full stiff (on rebound - no adjustment for compression) really cut down on the movement of the front suspension. The front ride is firmer, but still isn't harsh, but I still have stock rubber front bushings (eventually those will be changed).

My car has close to the factory curb weight and weight bias, so I want to keep the relationship of the spring rates front/rear the same.

Stock 88 Spring Rates:
Front: 205lb/in
Rear 142 lb/in

New front spring rate of 360 lb/in is 1.75 times stiffer, so the rear spring should be 1.75 times stiffer = 249 lb/in. My current rear coil over springs are 275 lb/in and that is close enough for now. So all I need to do is modify the rear Koni struts to accept my current coilover springs.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-12-2014 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Chucked up the struts in the lathe so I could turn down the top cap so the coil over sleeve would fit over it:


Then cut off the stock spring perch:


I left the weld bead in place and will use it to support the coil over sleeve. Eventually I will maximize the rear tire width and the backside of the wheel will not clear the coil over spring, so it needs to stay higher on the strut:


Test fitted the sleeve and they are about 1/4" too long. So they spent some time on the lathe as well:




Then they were taped off and painted. I didn't have a color that would match the Koni red, so the silver will blend in to the aluminum sleeves:

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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-12-2014 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rear struts are installed and set to full stiff:



The adjustment nub that sticks out of the end of the shaft was interfering with the flange on the vents (flipped strut bushing). Since I don't use any hold down bracket on the inside of the vents, I just cut the flange off.

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Report this Post07-12-2014 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:



Paul,

I'm confused. What is holding your vents down now? Don't they rattle around on rough roads?

Dr. W.

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 07-12-2014).]

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Report this Post07-13-2014 07:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by infinitewill:
I'm confused. What is holding your vents down now? Don't they rattle around on rough roads?


I stopped using the inside rear mount for the engine vents in 2003 for most of my personal Fieros and haven't had any issues. They stay in place quite well and don't vibrate. On the notchies, I still use the hold down bolt on the outer edge and both front attachments - so they are supported on 3 of the 4 corners. On the GT fastback cars, I don't use any bolts and they are only held in place by the tabs on the outer edge that lock into the sail window trim. The fastback vents also have an inside tab with rubber bumper on them so the decklid can hold them down and keep them from vibrating.

I started doing this because I converted an 88 notchie to a GT fastback and didn't have the 88 specific mount for the fastback vents. Since I didn't have it, I went ahead and cut the mounting tab off the upper strut tower ring to clean it up and also modified the struts to use button head bolts vs. studs. It really cleaned up the visual appearance of the top of the struts and also allowed me to quickly remove the vents and display the car w/o vents at car shows.

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Report this Post07-13-2014 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ah, now I understand. I was also wondering about the rear lateral link relocation you did. What do you calculate you will be able to use for rear wheel width? IIRC you are using stock rear quarter panels correct?

Dr. W.

------------------
Is your Fastback GT's trunk seal shot? My Gen IV replacement GT trunk seals with miter double bonded corners are now in production. $95 shipped to the US (contact me for international shipping rates) More info can be found here GT Trunk Seal Project

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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-13-2014 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by infinitewill:
I was also wondering about the rear lateral link relocation you did. What do you calculate you will be able to use for rear wheel width? IIRC you are using stock rear quarter panels correct?


Steven Snyder is running the lateral link relocation kit with Motegi MR-116 18×9 (45mm offset) & 275/35/18 BFG Rival tires under a stock 88 coupe body. Clearance to the trailing link is very tight, but it does clear.

For the LS4/F40 car I will eventually run 18 x 10 1/2" w/ 56 offset (S10 wheel bearing conversion) under the stock body, but it requires pulling the rear suspension in 1 5/8" at the bottom (shorter lateral links and axles) and 1" at the top (upper mount relocated - already done and one of the reasons I can't use the engine vent hold down brackets).

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-13-2014).]

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Report this Post07-15-2014 03:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice work Paul!

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Report this Post07-15-2014 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I had to run a box to the post office over lunch, so I took the car to my normal WOT section of road and did a 7K up shift from 2-3 and it worked in quick fashion! It still takes some physical effort/momentary delay for the synchos to do their thing, but being able to shift it quickly from that RPM is a substantial improvement over the last cable setup. I think this shifter cable mod will help drop my ET a few tenths! Then get some better tires and do a driver mod and climb the 1/4 mile list a little further!

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Report this Post07-16-2014 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I had to run a box to the post office over lunch, so I took the car to my normal WOT section of road and did a 7K up shift from 2-3 and it worked in quick fashion! It still takes some physical effort/momentary delay for the synchos to do their thing, but being able to shift it quickly from that RPM is a substantial improvement over the last cable setup. I think this shifter cable mod will help drop my ET a few tenths! Then get some better tires and do a driver mod and climb the 1/4 mile list a little further!


Awesome! I think I'll use the stock shifter then to start with, until I can get a more modern shifter designed and built for my car. That's at least one less thing I can avoid putting off for getting my swap done. Hopefully I'll have some more room in the garage soon and will be able to do some work on it.

Any news on the flywheels? It's one of the big items I still have to secure to be able to get my swap done. I'm sure it'll be months before I really need it, though. :-/

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Report this Post07-16-2014 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
Any news on the flywheels? It's one of the big items I still have to secure to be able to get my swap done. I'm sure it'll be months before I really need it, though. :-/


I will be travelling next week, but once I am back, I plan to resend the flywheel drawing for a new quote (old one is over 1 year old). I will have them make a single flywheel to verify that the drawing and their CNC program result in the proper flywheel shape/fitment. Once that is done, then I will order another 4 to start. I will keep the 1st one for the LS4/F40 swap I am starting and put the other 4 up for sale. Once those 4 are gone and depending on interest I will try to increase the order quality from 5 to 10. I will also have the starter bracket laser cut and a fixture made to weld it up.

So hopefully by September/October both the LS4/F40 flywheel and starter mount will be ready to sell.

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dobey
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Report this Post07-16-2014 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
I will be travelling next week, but once I am back, I plan to resend the flywheel drawing for a new quote (old one is over 1 year old). I will have them make a single flywheel to verify that the drawing and their CNC program result in the proper flywheel shape/fitment. Once that is done, then I will order another 4 to start. I will keep the 1st one for the LS4/F40 swap I am starting and put the other 4 up for sale. Once those 4 are gone and depending on interest I will try to increase the order quality from 5 to 10. I will also have the starter bracket laser cut and a fixture made to weld it up.

So hopefully by September/October both the LS4/F40 flywheel and starter mount will be ready to sell.


Great. Consider one of those first four flywheels sold. Just PM me when you verify the flywheel is proper, and you're ordering them, and I'll send you the money/shipping info.

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CTFieroGT87
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Report this Post07-17-2014 07:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CTFieroGT87Click Here to Email CTFieroGT87Send a Private Message to CTFieroGT87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'll sign up for the second set of parts, FW and starter mount. Just let me know when to send payment!

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Report this Post07-17-2014 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
Great. Consider one of those first four flywheels sold.


 
quote
Originally posted by CTFieroGT87:
I'll sign up for the second set of parts, FW and starter mount.


Once I have verified the first good flywheel from the shop, then I will most likely start a mall thread to alert people of their upcoming availability and to get a better idea of how many I should make with the initial run. Right now 4 of the first 5 flywheels have interested parties wanting them, so I may need to make 7-10 for the first production batch.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post07-17-2014 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


Once I have verified the first good flywheel from the shop, then I will most likely start a mall thread to alert people of their upcoming availability and to get a better idea of how many I should make with the initial run. Right now 4 of the first 5 flywheels have interested parties wanting them, so I may need to make 7-10 for the first production batch.



have you considered offering multiple bolt patterns for the flywheel? if the same flywheel would work for N*'s and 3800's, you could open up your market considerably.

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Report this Post07-17-2014 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

have you considered offering multiple bolt patterns for the flywheel? if the same flywheel would work for N*'s and 3800's, you could open up your market considerably.


I have. Once the LS4/F40 flywheels are available, I might have them make 5 or so blanks with the center bore to match that of the smallest crankshaft pilot (probably the 60 degree motors). Then I can bore the pilot and drill the crankshaft pattern on them here at the house on my vertical mill for adaption. The neutral balance engines (60 degree v6, N*, & LS4) are easy. The ones with a specific imbalance will be more complicated and will cost more, if I even decide to offer them.

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