Thanks! Now I just need to focus on making the rest of the car not a basket case.
I don't need an alarm. Would-be thieves look into my car and think "Damn, somebody already stole this"
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Part # is ACDELCO OE SERVICE 12635650 Harmonic Balancer. Cheapest place shipped to you is Rock Bottom Auto Parts on ebay. Shipped is $138.78. I just ordered a new one as mine has a wobble on it and I am fighting a slight belt chirp. If you go with this balancer, then you will likely have to go with an electric water pump or use the LS4 one (if it fits).
Here are a few pictures:
With a truck water pump:
Thanks! It looks like the front face of the balancer is 2 3/4" out from the block face?
Last commute tank of gas averaged 22 mpg... right where I wanted it. Now I need to waste some gas with a long interstate trip and break the 30mpg target.
Last commute tank was 21.4, so the first one wasn't a fluke.
Registered for the Holley LS Fest in Bowling Green, KY: http://www.holley.com/LSFest/Registration.asp I sprung for the all access pass so I can run the 1/4 mile, autocross, and 3S competitions as well as the show and the cruise. Now I just need new tires...
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-25-2013).]
I printed out all the rules for each event and started going down them to make sure my car passes.
First order of business was ordering a new set of rear tires as the current tread would not pass the 5/32" minimum. For the competition, the tires have to be DOT and have a 200 or higher tread wear rating. I really wanted a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE-11's in 245/45/16, but they are all sold out and on back order. TireRack said that there weren't any currently on the boat, so it would be 6-8 weeks before they had any. That was the only tire they offer in the 245/45/16 size that was 200 or greater tread wear (its right at 200).
I call several other tire places and none had anything that interested me in the 245/24/16 size, so I went back to tire rack and looked at the 245/50/16's and settled in on BFG G-Force Sport Comp 2 (the Potenza RE-11's are not offered in this size). Placed the order for 2 of these and should have them some time this week.
Next item to find and purchase is a 2.5 lb (minimum) Automotive B C fire extinguisher and then mount it with a secure quick release within reach of the driver.
Then I have to go over the car to check all the lights, horn, wipers, etc...
If anyone is in the Bowling Green area and would like to attend, I am looking for someone to video my car during its events. As part of my all access pass, I get 4 tickets to the event and will only be using 1 of them.
You know, you just don't expect to hear those sounds when a Fiero passes you!
Yeah, I saw you yesterday as I passed. Just think, that's with one of the muffler exits blocked off. Its a little louder when both muffler exits are open!
Got the new tires installed today and adjusted the speedo for 5% less RPM per MPH so maybe that will help get me over 29 MPG.
Also, fixed the horn, checked all the brake lights/tune signals and installed the fire extinguisher. Per the rules:
"On board fire extinguisher - A 2.5lb minimum, automotive BC fire extinguisher, with a quick release mounting bracket. The extinguisher must be within easy reach of the driver."
I think this will work, it is mounted to the seat frame of the C4 Corvette seats:
Heading out to the LS Fest in the next hour. Should have a good interstate run (Bowling Green is 2.5 hrs away) to check the interstate mileage with the open loop tune and the taller rear tires. Today I have to tech in and should get a few runs at the autocross and 1/4 mile.
The trip down the car averaged 29mpg again... breaking the 30 mpg mark is looking to be difficult.
On the first day of LS Fest, I was able to do ten 1/4 mile runs and six passes on the autocross track. Overriding theme is the car has too much power/not enough traction.
On the drag strip, I started out going though the water box, quickly nixed that idea as I would launch quicker w/o any pre-launch burn out. I also started out launching the car right off idle in 1st gear... Doing this I would still spin at the top end of 1st, which was hurting my ET and MPH. So I started launching in 2nd gear... slower out of the hole, but resulted in my quickest ET and mph of the day. Even launching in 2nd gear, wheel spin still happens as I feed it more throttle... need better and wider tires.
The major issue with 1/4 mile performance is the 2-3 shift... its like the syncro locks me out of the gear and I have to hold/apply pressure to it for well over 1/2 second for it to slide into gear and commence with the run. I am shifting at the same RPM (about 7k) but the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts both happen relatively quick. I adjusted the throttle follower torque to pull more torque so it would close faster early on with the tune. So its possible the engine is now dropping RPM too fast and passes up the RPM of the 2-3 gear shift before I get the shifter pushed up and over. The 1-2 shift has a larger RPM drop and the shifter is pulled straight back so there is more time to grab second and its a quick shift being pull straight back. The 3-4 shift is also quick... so I think I can just pull the shifter back quicker than forward and to the next gate over. So tonight I will tweak the throttle follower in the 4500-7K range to see if it helps the 2-3 shift by dropping RPM less quickly.
Best time of the day was 12.896 @ 114.10 mph... I know the car has more in it if I can get it to hook and speed up the 2-3 shift.
The 6 runs on the autocross were all steps towards a better time. 1st run I DNF'd as I missed the first cross over turn and the announcer came over the intercom "your going the wrong way"... 2nd run was 57.089 where I spun out on the back stretch, then 44.908, 44.784, 42.699, and 42.294. The best time of the day was in the 36 second range, so my times suck! I run the course in 2nd once I take off in 1st, but traction in 2nd gear is easily overcome in the straight line, let alone going around a corner, so less throttle lets the car go faster.
The car really needs a driver mod, wider stickier tires especially in the rear, and fix the 2-3 shift issue... but its been fun flogging the car!
Sounds like a blast. I need to take a Northstar to LS fest to clean up!
What tires are you running?
The F40 has triple cone synchros 1st and 2nd, with doubles in 3rd and 4th. It's not surprising 1-2 is very quick. Test drives of the Saab in which the F40 debuted said that the test drives could shift gears as fast as they could move their arms. You're not trying to shift clutchlessly, are you?
I've gone 12.86 @ 106, and have seen 11 sec timeslips with 112-114 traps, so traction is definitely the order of the day for you.
Sounds like a blast. I need to take a Northstar to LS fest to clean up!
What tires are you running?
The F40 has triple cone synchros 1st and 2nd, with doubles in 3rd and 4th. It's not surprising 1-2 is very quick. Test drives of the Saab in which the F40 debuted said that the test drives could shift gears as fast as they could move their arms. You're not trying to shift clutchlessly, are you?
I've gone 12.86 @ 106, and have seen 11 sec timeslips with 112-114 traps, so traction is definitely the order of the day for you.
Its been a fun yet tiring last couple of days.
The rear tires are 245/50/16 BFG G-force Comp 2s, the fronts are 205/50/16 kuhmos
My tweak with the throttle closing speed didn't do much, still having issues engaging 3rd with the clutch pressed. If I hold pressure on it, it will eventually engage, but it just takes way, way, way too much time. I will have to do some more testing when I get home to see what can be done to improve it.
Only made 2 more 1/4 mile passes today and they were both mid 13's at 108 due to spinning at the launch and the super slow 2-3 shift. I would have had 1 more round be we were in the elimination rounds - where you do 3 back to back passes and can not open the hood without being disqualified. After I picked up my slip for the 2nd pass, when I tried to leave I couldn't access 1st or 2nd. So I dropped out of competition and limped the car in 3rd gear all the way back to the autocross pits where my tools were. The C-clip for the shifter cable had fallen off allowing the cable sleeve stop to fall out of place. Luckily the c-clip was still on the transmission, so I just bent it in to make it fit tighter and slid it back into place...
The autocross side was a little better as I got 4 more runs in and was able to get down to a 40.982 as my best time. The best times were in the 35 second range, so I wasn't competitive (not that a fiero will ever be), but at least I was able to make some improvements.
I am waiting for some in car videos of the autocross and 1/4 mile runs to upload...
Only event on Sunday is a 3S.... Speed, Steer, Stop... full throttle bast to the end of the autocross track, turn 180 and come back and stop within a 20 x 30 box.
Best time of the day was 12.896 @ 114.10 mph... I know the car has more in it if I can get it to hook and speed up the 2-3 shift
That is still an impressive run!
Would a Posi-Traction differential of some kind make a difference? When I did a search on the value of a positraction unit for a Fiero, it seems they're mixed opinions on the benefit it could provide? In a transverse arrangement do both wheels hook up evenly, without a posi?
Best time of the day was 12.896 @ 114.10 mph... I know the car has more in it if I can get it to hook and speed up the 2-3 shift
That is still an impressive run!
Would a Posi-Traction differential of some kind make a difference? When I did a search on the value of a positraction unit for a Fiero, it seems they're mixed opinions on the benefit it could provide? In a transverse arrangement do both wheels hook up evenly, without a posi?
Right now I hook & spin the rear wheels as a pair, so adding a posi wouldn't do much at the moment. If I get to the point of doing one wheel burnouts or spinning the inside tire around a turn, then maybe a posi would be in order.
The 3S competition was a handful... Here is a picture of the course (2 cars run side by side, then turn opposite directions. Then switch sides and the average time for both decides the winner - bracket elimination):
During the practice rounds I started with a 16.623 for my 2nd time (spun out at the end for the first one and didn't get a card). Then ran a 15.957, 15.945, 15.926, and my last round was 15.230. The pro cars were running 13's, so it wasn't terrible. Tires, tires, tires...
I say it was a handful because I launched in1st, shifted to 2nd about 6000 rpm (at rev limit in 1st at 1/3 the way to the turn), WOT in 2nd, off the throttle, on the brakes, downshifting to 1st, tight turn (which I had to do 1 handed if I didn't get the shifter into 1st gear in time), give it hell in 1st, shift to 2nd and blip on/off the throttle as I went around the cones, then on the brakes again and stopping in the box.
There were only 62 cars there today and I was in round 1 of the eliminations. Got beat, packed up my stuff and went home to the A/C! Time to kick back and relax for a few hours!
I filled up once I got to LS fest, then put 120 miles on the car before filling up to head home. During those 120 miles, there were: 37 mile True Street Cruise... right before the 3 back to back 1/4 mile runs (no opening of the hood post cruise or between runs). 12... 1/4 mile passes 10... autocross passes 8..... 3S event runs
Used 11.2 gallons in that 120 miles, so it was drinking like a V8 with a 10.7 mpg average for that tank. Haven't filled up to check the return mileage yet.
I am please to say that in all my autocross and 3S rounds, I never tagged a cone, so for the most part the car went where I wanted it, just took A LOT of steering wheel and throttle work.
Overall it was a blast! I beat the piss out of the car and besides the C-clip falling off, it was issue free from a reliability standpoint. I got to hang out with J Gunsett and his son, did a heads up LS4/F40 vs LS3/F40 on the strip, even lined up against his son in his camaro for 1 run as well, I learned a lot about the car, found some areas that need further work, learned some of the details of how the event was ran, so when I go back next year I can do better.
Now I need to get back to Vince's car!
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-08-2013).]
Last weekend I had the pleasure to meet and hang out with Fieroguru at LS Fest. He did a great job in all the events he competed in. And did I mention he blew my doors off in the 1/4 mile. I was running stock tires (215/60 14s) and on that run had real bad wheel spin that run. But as the day went on I was babying it out of the hole and letting 3rd and 4th gear do the work. Best I could do was 13.05 at 118.02 MPH. Fieroguru, hope hope we can do it again next year.
This is officially my favourite build thread. AWESOME!
Thanks!
Not much new has happened, been focused on a customer car. I did get the shifter rebuilt and it seems to have helped shifting into 3rd gear, but I haven't really tested it out with a WOT 2-3 upshift yet.
For the second time now, I have lost gear shift capability while driving. First time was when the c-clip fell off on a 1/4 mile pass and I was stuck in 4th gear till I limped it back to the pits. Reinstalled the c-clip and life was good.
Today while going into town, a similar thing happened and all I had was 3rd gear. I had just left the house and was only a few miles away, so I drove it in 3rd till I found a place I could turn around in and limped the car home. I thought it was the c-clip again... but it wasn't:
I broke the shift cable right where it meets the solid shaft. This is one of the few aspects of the swap where I didn't reinvent the wheel and used what others had done (modified getrag select cable for both shift and select functions). The getrag select cable is smaller than the getrag shift cable, and I think the reduced thickness and the length of the solid portion of the cable are contributors to the failure (along with all the abusive shifting).
To engage 3rd gear, here is where the end of the solid portion of the cable is. It is at the very end of the support sleeve (which I trimmed down as part of the modification) and 1 7/16" from the shifter bracket. I use the support sleeve term loosely, as the support sleeve is quite movable and would still allow the wire portion of the cable to flex/bend as the shifter engages 1/3/5 gears. This flexing/bending might be contributing the issues with the 2-3 upshift, as engaging R/1/3/5 was always more difficult than 2/3/6:
Here is the position with the shifter in 2/4/6, the solid portion is well within the sleeve of the cable:
The actual select cable doesn't see nearly the same frequency of movement with the extremes of fully extended/fully retracted. Even so, the solid portion of the cable is further into the support sleeve at full extension (Reverse) and only 1 1/8" past the shifter bracket:
Here is the 5th and 6th position:
Short term, I am just going to buy another getrag select cable and install it so I can get the car back on the road with minimal work. Winter is coming and I won't be beating on the car like I was, so it should last until I am done with the SBC/F23 swap I am working on. Once it is back with its owner, I can bring the LS4/F40 car back into the garage to redesign the whole shifter/cable setup with a custom set of cables.
Until the new shifter cable arrives, I am back to driving the 2.5/125C Fiero...
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-29-2013).]
I had the same thing happen to me. When I was far from home my shift cable failed in the same fashion. I had to drive mine 50 miles in third gear to get it home. I don't suggest using the same part, I replaced mine with a custom cable, while I was at it I put heim joint ends on the cable to clean up the feel of the shifts.
I had the same thing happen to me. When I was far from home my shift cable failed in the same fashion. I had to drive mine 50 miles in third gear to get it home. I don't suggest using the same part, I replaced mine with a custom cable, while I was at it I put heim joint ends on the cable to clean up the feel of the shifts.
Thanks for the confirmation of the issues with the cable. Have you had any issues doing WOT upshifts into 3rd gear? Mine doesn't like it at all and I am trying to narrow down the cause (may just be driver error). In the short term, I have ordered a replacement getrag select cable, but long term I will have a custom cable made... just don't have the free time or garage space to rework everything right now (if I am going to design a custom cable, I want to start with a stock 4 speed shifter base and not move the cable mounts on it.)
Speaking of shifters, I went ahead and pulled the one in my car for inspection, to better understand how it works, and look for options to streamline the 2-3 upshift. Just put the transmission in neutral, remove 3 bolts and pull it out.
Within the shifter assembly, there is a pin that rides in a gated shift pattern:
There is a ball detent that helps to self-center the shifter in the 3-4 gate, but the spring pressure to go into the 1-2 gate is less than what is needed to go into the 5-6 gate, so the self-center feature isn't as strong from the 1/2 gate as I would like. Unfortunately, its cause by the countour of the bracket the detent ball rolls around on, so not an easy fix to add more spring tension.
There are two of these tabs that engage the shift rails. Notice they are tapered on one side. I might want to increase this taper (and angle the gate for the pin) to allow the shifter to start sliding towards the 3-4 gate sooner (when pushed from 2nd). I may also taper the edge that could accidentally tap 5th so I wouldn't hit the edge of 5th while trying to get 3rd.
Thanks for the confirmation of the issues with the cable. Have you had any issues doing WOT upshifts into 3rd gear? Mine doesn't like it at all and I am trying to narrow down the cause (may just be driver error). In the short term, I have ordered a replacement getrag select cable, but long term I will have a custom cable made... just don't have the free time or garage space to rework everything right now (if I am going to design a custom cable, I want to start with a stock 4 speed shifter base and not move the cable mounts on it.)
Prior to the cable change, the feel of the shifter was very poor for me. I am sure I hit between the gates muultiple time which helped to kill the original cable. It was much improved with the new cable. This summer I have replace the cable end on the selector with a heim joint to improve the positive feel of the shifts. Basicly I dislike the snap on connects a lot.
Got about 200 miles on my F40 swap, still getting used to the shifting. My issue is I keep putting it in Reverse instead of 1st gear. One trip I did it 4 times in a row. The guy behind me was getting nervous. He kept stopping further and further back each light.
I know it takes some force to push the lever over to R but for some reason I keep doing it.
Watching your mods to see if I can get any good ideas for my shifter too.
Rob
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 09-30-2013).]
My issue is I keep putting it in Reverse instead of 1st gear. One trip I did it 4 times in a row.
I know it takes some force to push the lever over to R but for some reason I keep doing it.
Watching your mods to see if I can get any good ideas for my shifter too.
Rob
I had that issue as well, but have since fixed it.
If you want to take the shifter apart again, you can grind the edge of the lever more vertical, so it will take more force to push the roller down.
The easy way is to add a washer or two between the pivot housing and the lockout lever (bolt goes through the washers to keep them in place). This lowers the pivot lever and makes the roller compress the spring further to allow reverse. Depending on the number of washers added, you might need a longer bolt. Here is a picture of mine with 2 washers between the two plates (can't see the washers, but can see the gap they created):
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-30-2013).]
Got about 200 miles on my F40 swap, still getting used to the shifting. My issue is I keep putting it in Reverse instead of 1st gear. One trip I did it 4 times in a row. The guy behind me was getting nervous. He kept stopping further and further back each light.
I know it takes some force to push the lever over to R but for some reason I keep doing it.
Watching your mods to see if I can get any good ideas for my shifter too.
Rob
I did that when I first started driving BMW's, as they have R next to 1, but got over it within a couple of weeks.
I busted my shift cable in the same spot on the 13th... Hopefully the set I ordered from Archie arrive today. I blew mine shifting from 1->2. I might have forgot to hit the clutch.
Also, I'm running 255/16 BFG G-Force and getting light tire spin with 3000rpm clutch dumps and a mere 215 ft*lbs of torque. I imagine the problem is much worse for you guys. My other wheels are 275/40-17 Nitto 555's but that wheel/tire combination was causing me to bog down too much. I also have a pair of Hoosier R4 275/35-17's I'm looking to sell. They are brand new but illegal at the oval track I run.
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: No time for ideas, or are the mods to much work for now?
As a professional courtesy to the customer's car that is in my garage right now, I am not spending any time on R&D for personal projects. His car is my primary focus.
What needs to happen to rework the cable is, replace the current 4 speed shifter base with an unmodified one so my cable will not require moving the shift cable retainer at the shifter, next install the cable sleeves (not the inner cable) and then go to the transmission side and rework the transmission shift bracket to make is simpler to replicate (again, once you go custom cable, might as well use it to make everything else easier). Then determine the proper cable sleeve length for an esthetic routing of the cables, and the inner cable length so everything works and is properly supported. Not really difficult, but could take a week or two to get everything worked out and fabricated.
As a professional courtesy to the customer's car that is in my garage right now, I am not spending any time on R&D for personal projects. His car is my primary focus.
What needs to happen to rework the cable is, replace the current 4 speed shifter base with an unmodified one so my cable will not require moving the shift cable retainer at the shifter, next install the cable sleeves (not the inner cable) and then go to the transmission side and rework the transmission shift bracket to make is simpler to replicate (again, once you go custom cable, might as well use it to make everything else easier). Then determine the proper cable sleeve length for an esthetic routing of the cables, and the inner cable length so everything works and is properly supported. Not really difficult, but could take a week or two to get everything worked out and fabricated.
The customer should always come first, Cool thanks
