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LS4 / F40 swap - fieroguru by fieroguru
Started on: 12-13-2010 01:34 PM
Replies: 1263 (100221 views)
Last post by: fieroguru on 10-08-2017 05:47 PM
Bloozberry
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Report this Post04-20-2013 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey 'guru... it's been a while since I checked out your thread. My loss I guess! Congrats on getting the car rolling. It's always more than just a little daunting taking it out that first couple times eh? It's hard to enjoy it while your mind is occupied trying to analyze every little tick, clunk, rattle, and vibration wondering if you torqued every nut and connected every hose tightly. Rarely are you so acutely aware of a car being a conglomeration of a thousand parts flying in close formation down the highway as you are when you've built it!

Well done my friend! Well done!

(Edit: Wooo-whoo... I claim page 20!)

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 04-20-2013).]

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Report this Post04-21-2013 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Most likely. Instead of just 3 gates, you have 4 in approximately the same space (you do increase the side to side travel some), but I think the issue is the mechanical advantage built into the fiero shifter. It will self center in the 3/4 gate and 5/6 are along a fixed stop. 1/2 are a little more challenging as the reverse lockout isn't the strongest (easy to go past it). I need to get a longer bolt and shim the lockout tab down further so it will be more of a positive stop.


I see. I guess it would be much better using a shifter designed for the 6 speed then? I'm planning to build a custom shifter and cage, based on the design of the modern FWD shifter and cage, meant to work with the 6 speed.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post04-25-2013 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Been doing a bunch of driving... this car is rather addictive.

The LS4 factory timing is actually more aggressive that the LS2/6 speed timing (both at cruise rpm and at WOT) so I switched back to the LS4 timing and the car runs better and pulls stronger from the lower RPM's as well. I also reworked the idle timing adjustments to keep the timing table stock from 1400 RPM and above as that is where the engine can be during normal low speed cruise. Eventually I will try adding some additional timing to the cruise cells, but the current setup is pretty smooth and strong.

I finally purchased a new aux gauge housing (all the mounting bolts were broken off the one I had), so now the gauges will stay put during WOT runs.

The car is still pulling vacuum at WOT with the MAP sensor dropping from 98 kpa (ambient pressure) to 94.5 at 6800 RPM. First step was to swap out the filter for a larger 8" cone one:



Unfortunately, the filter change didn't do much to remove the WOT restriction... so the next smallest item is the 85mm MAF. The 4" air intake necks down to 85mm at the MAF then enlarges back to 90 for the throttle body. Since I already have the 4" intake tube, I can remove the current MAF, extend the 4" tube and install a LS7 card MAF. Once that is done, if it still pulls vacuum, then I will live with it. Here are the parts for the MAF conversion (I will have to fabricate the mounting flange for the card MAF):


Another issue I have been messing with is the TCM range switch. I found a wiring oversight in that I didn't wire up the P/N wire to the ECM and just did the 4 wires to the TCM. Added it and it still didn't like it switching from D4 to N via the clutch pedal. Either the DBW throttle would shut off (pushing the pedal did nothing) or it would put the car in low power mode which limits throttle input to about 5%... not much fun to drive. If I keep it wired for D4 all the time, it works great, but sets a check engine code that I can't turn off with HP tuners. So my last plan of attack is to wire up the actual range switch in the 4T65e-hd and manually switch it between D4 and N (or P) in the console area (where the power mirror switch normally goes). Then I will manually put it in P or N when I start the car, then put it in D4 for the actual drive. I think it will also work for a Valet mode if left in N or P as it will likely be in reduced power mode... not that I let a lot of people drive my toys.

So far DoD is still unresponsive. I suspect it is the transmission pressure solenoid doing it. I have tried a couple of resistor setups and it still sets the code. With the code present it puts the transmission in max pressure mode which might keep DoD from kicking in. So I purchased an actual transmission pressure solenoid and will wire it up in the console as well. That should eliminate this code. To address the range and pressure issues, I purchased the range switch, internal harness and pressure switch for a 4t65e-hd:


The only other code is the one for the ISS (transmission Input Shaft Speed). I can't turn it off, but I also don't know how important it is yet. There is no easy fix for this one besides drilling the F40 case and installing a sensor to look at a gear on the input shaft, but the teeth don't match and the manual transmission input shaft doesn't behave like an auto input shaft... so even if I went to all that trouble it still might not be happy and set the code. I am not going to mess with this one until I get past the other ones and see if DoD is happy or not. A sane person would have given up on DoD a long time ago, but I fell off my rocker a long time ago.

I am about through with a full tank a gas where I am tracking my daily commute mileage. Unfortunately, there were a couple of WOT blasts during this tank and I started the tank with the less aggressive LS2 timing at cruise... so I am not expecting any great numbers. It will probably be 15mpg... but it will get better if I can learn to control my right foot.

The last neat thing about the engine/transmission/clutch... I can backup the car in the driveway and in parking lots w/o pushing on the gas pedal at all. I can also smoothly pull from a stop sign in 1st without throttle input as well. The low gearing of 1st, the smooth engagement of the clutch, and the very fast adaptive idle control works wonders. So when I gently release the clutch, it starts pulling the RPM's down slightly (like 50) and the adaptive idle adds timing, which increases torque, which keeps the engine from stalling while pulling the car from a dead stop. I altered the adaptive timing to make it more aggressive at small RPM changes to help settle down the idle with the large cam, but this was an unexpected benefit as well.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 04-26-2013).]

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diabloroadster
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Report this Post04-25-2013 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for diabloroadsterSend a Private Message to diabloroadsterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

WOW! Your really doing such a great job on this! How much difference was the timing between the LS4 & ls2/6 speed?

Im at the point with my LS4 swap where Im having to go back a fix/redo some things that quite didnt work out, most all belt related. All just really little stuff but time consuming....
Mine is still not completly tuned, its better than it was but still needs some more tuning. Hopefully I will be able to do some street tuning on it this coming week as well as get all
the other little issues fixed that Im not happy with. I have a dyno rental scheduled on May 1st so maybe after that it might be half as good as yours.....

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post04-25-2013 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

This is VERY interesting
I have a baggy full of electronics and wire harness that came out of a 4T65E. BUT I have not gotten around to attempting the "simulator" yet.
I will be watching this. Thanks for the thread.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post04-25-2013 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Question: what difference is between the 2002 4T65e and the 06 4T65EHD internal electronics? Or specifically can the 02 be used in the simulator for the 06 LS4?

I was thinking of using the shifter as part of the range switch. I think the input shaft should see an expected RPM for each gear? So to use the shifter to select the gear (range switch) and the input shaft should better match what the TCM/ECM expects to see?

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fieroguru
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Report this Post04-26-2013 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Question: what difference is between the 2002 4T65e and the 06 4T65EHD internal electronics? Or specifically can the 02 be used in the simulator for the 06 LS4?

I was thinking of using the shifter as part of the range switch. I think the input shaft should see an expected RPM for each gear? So to use the shifter to select the gear (range switch) and the input shaft should better match what the TCM/ECM expects to see?


I am not very knowledgeable of the 4T65e-HD transmissions and their various differences. What I can share is the pressure control solenoid was 2003+, the range selector covers 4T60E and 4T65e so it should be the same, and the internal harness I used was 2007-2010 but that might just be due to the connector ends.

The input shaft on the auto can see 0 RPMs in every gear if the vehicle is stopped. It will also see 700ish rpm with the car stopped and in neutral. The manual transmission input shaft will see 0 RPM when stopped and the transmission is in a gear, but if you put it in neutral and release the clutch it will see idle RPM. Neither of these are the issue. I had the car wired to show N every time i pressed the clutch and I think the TCM throws a fit when it sees N while the car is in motion and kicks it into low power mode to prevent damage from doing neutral drops or other abusive antics. I suspect for everything to work right, the transition from N to D4 must happen while stopped or at single digit speeds.

Since I am using the 4 speed shifter and it has the reverse lockout lever, I could put the clutch switch on the lockout lever. When in reverse, the lockout lever is pushed down (similar to clutch in) and would break the connection to the switching relay. This would only happen while in reverse and the car doesn't see much speed while in reverse, so it might work. I will try this first since I just need to move the switch from the pedal to the shifter.


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Report this Post04-26-2013 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blander66Click Here to Email blander66Send a Private Message to blander66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Have you thought of using some sort of PLC circut to emulate the signals you need to make the ECM happy?

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Report this Post04-26-2013 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
I am not expecting any great numbers. It will probably be 15gal/mile...


That's a lot of gas for one mile.

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Report this Post04-26-2013 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
That's a lot of gas for one mile.


"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it." -- Abraham Simpson

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fieroguru
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Report this Post04-26-2013 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by blander66:
Have you thought of using some sort of PLC circut to emulate the signals you need to make the ECM happy?


Yeah, I could probably have one of the electrical engineers or ET's at work help me set something up (my PLC programming is quite limited, one class in grad school), but I would prefer to find a solution that others could use as well. So I am keeping things relatively simple/basic and will see how far I get with this approach before pulling out the other more technical options.

 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
That's a lot of gas for one mile.


That's what I get for trying to type an update while the wife is calling me to the living room to watch a movie...

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fieroguru
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Report this Post04-26-2013 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I got home at a reasonable hour and my new shifter knob was waiting for me:


It was $16 on ebay and had the right shift pattern for the F40 - its for a VW. The install takes some work as the shifter knobs snaps in place on the VW and I needed it to thread into place. Here is an underside pic:


I cut the tabs off and used a large drill bit to bevel the area (the knob material is plastic):


To tap it for the M16 x 1.5 thread, I ended up running a .55" drill bit down the hole to enlarge it slightly. Next I ran a .63" bit down about 1.5" to allow the knob to slide over the shaft. Last I tapped the bottom of the hole for the shifter shaft. Here is an installed pic:


The boot came with a chrome plastic trim ring, but it is curved and won't work with the fiero console. So I took it of and just have the boot resting in the shifter area for now. I will probably attach it to the bottom of the shifter plate like the stock fiero boot was.

Then I switched the car over to run speed density and took it on the tuning circuit (about 20 minute) and got the first wave of edits to do. The E67's don't have a VE table, so I am using BlueCats conversion tool to go from the equation coefficients to VE table and back. Again I dump the log data into excel, filter out all the transition points, clutch is pressed, and when the engine is delivering negative torque then compile the needed changes based on the STFT.

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Report this Post04-27-2013 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Spent the morning wasting gas. I filled the car up and the last tank averaged 18.5mpg, not bad for my daily commute and a few WOT runs. Then I took the car on a 121mile round trip down a 2 lane/4 lane and tried to keep the car in the 55-65 mph range. Then when I got back I filled it back up at the same pump. That trip averaged 27.7 mpg... not bad at all... gotta love that 6th gear!

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Report this Post04-27-2013 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Spent the morning wasting gas. I filled the car up and the last tank averaged 18.5mpg, not bad for my daily commute and a few WOT runs. Then I took the car on a 121mile round trip down a 2 lane/4 lane and tried to keep the car in the 55-65 mph range. Then when I got back I filled it back up at the same pump. That trip averaged 27.7 mpg... not bad at all... gotta love that 6th gear!


wow, that's without DOD too right?

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fieroguru
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Report this Post04-27-2013 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


wow, that's without DOD too right?


Correct. No DoD and with the stock timing tables. I should be able to add a couple more degrees of timing since I don't have the increased driveline loss of the automatic. The overlap from the camshaft acts like an EGR and lowers cruise vacuum which reduces pumping losses as well. Then you get the benefit of the smaller 5.3L of displacement and the sub 2000 rpm cruise speed. I would like to hit 30mpg at steady state cruise in V8 mode and then get DoD to take it over 30.

My old SBC swap that was dialed in pretty well, never saw more than 23 mpg with the 5 speed... no egr, too much engine vacuum, too many rpms at cruise...

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Report this Post04-27-2013 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I wonder how far you can take it without DOD, I wouldn't doubt 30.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post04-28-2013 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Did more wiring today...

I wired up the transmission pressure solenoid and then cut a finger from a nitrile glove and slid it over the solenoid like a sleeping bag:


Then I fabbed up this little bracket and switch for the reverse lockout lever. The wires control a solenoid with N.O. and N.C. contacts. So while the shifter is in anything but Rev, the relay is on (ignition power) and the TCM sees the car in D4 and the ECM sees it not in park/neutral. When the shifter is moved to reverse, the relay drops out, the contacts switch states and the TCM sees the car in N and the ECM sees it in P/N.



Good news is that the car now can run code free without triggering reduced power mode, bad news is DoD is still MIA... At this point I suspect the MAP sensor. The LS4 MAP sensor wouldn't fit the LS2 intake, so I purchased a Vette MAP sensor. The max/min calibration scale for the LS4 MAP sensor is 128.13kPa/-0.31kPa and the LS2 Vette one is 94.43kPa/10.34kPa. I changed the scale in the calibration a while back, but DoD might be looking for a specific voltage range vs. using the scale to calculate the optimal voltage range. I am going to pick up an adapter harness to verify I need to change back before I start modifying the actual harness.

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Report this Post04-29-2013 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

the P/N switch is pretty slick, good thinking.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post04-29-2013 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well the P/N switch on the shifter isn't going to work... During the drive to work this morning I must have tapped the reverse lockout during one of the shifts and it kicked it back to reduced power mode... I am just going to install the stock range switch and be done with this aspect of the swap.

The Input Speed Sensor error also popped up again... I need to do some more reading to see what the parameters are that set the code as I look for options.

I finally found the lower air dam from a member here on PFF, it showed up today, so I uncurled it and set it outside so it will restore to its stock shape. I also wire brushed the steel bracket and painted it. On Tuesday I will install these parts.

Also installed the head lights again (needed to replace one of the trim rings to the light wouldn't fall out) and wired up the CD player so the car will have tunes besides the exhaust note.

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Report this Post05-01-2013 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

so are you just going to wire in a toggle switch for P/N? or the actual range switch?

------------------
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Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post05-01-2013 06:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

so are you just going to wire in a toggle switch for P/N? or the actual range switch?



Actual range switch.

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Report this Post05-02-2013 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blander66Click Here to Email blander66Send a Private Message to blander66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Yeah, I could probably have one of the electrical engineers or ET's at work help me set something up (my PLC programming is quite limited, one class in grad school), but I would prefer to find a solution that others could use as well. So I am keeping things relatively simple/basic and will see how far I get with this approach before pulling out the other more technical options.


I do a lot of model based controls work and have access to cheaper control modules if you do think to go this route let me know I may be able to write the needed code which would then make this something that could be used on any future swaps with this combo

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Report this Post05-03-2013 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just been driving the car and working on the SD side of the tune. It runs quite smooth in town and through the RPM range. This car is soooo much fun to drive!

I am on vacation for the next week, so I will be doing some more work on the finishing details of the swap.

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Report this Post05-04-2013 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Just been driving the car and working on the SD side of the tune. It runs quite smooth in town and through the RPM range. This car is soooo much fun to drive!

I am on vacation for the next week, so I will be doing some more work on the finishing details of the swap.


That's great! Hopefully you don't get a week full of cold and rain out there, as the forecast currently looks to be for here. I'm on vacation this coming week as well, hoping to make a little progress on my build. But unfortunately, the forecast isn't looking so great over here.

Seems like you'll be putting a thousand miles on your car in no time though.

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Report this Post05-04-2013 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
Seems like you'll be putting a thousand miles on your car in no time though.


I am real close to having 1K on the swap. Just filled up from the commute/tuning tank and got 17.5 mpg... all the running around at 4K+ and about 7 WOT 3rd gear blasts take their toll on the fuel efficiency. This morning I took the car on a 221 mile trip with 60 miles 2/4 lane and the rest open interstate at 70-75mpg. Sole purpose of the trip was to check the mileage and it averaged 27.3mpg for the trip.

The old SBC swap would get 22-23 mpg, so 220 was about the limit of its range, this car did the 220 with 1/4 tank left to go and only used 8.1 gallons. It was about 60ish outside for this trip, so on a warmer day I might be able to get a little higher mpg... but I am pleased with what it is delivering. If I can keep my foot out of the loud pedal, it might get to 20-22 mpg on my daily commute.

The other thing I learned today was I need new rear tires. They are the ones from the old SBC car and are 4+ years old. Prior to today, I hadn't gone WOT in 2nd (just 3rd gear), but today I gently launched in first, revved to about 4K and shifted to second and then rolled into the pedal for WOT. About 4K in 2nd the tires just broke loose and the rear started to drift to the passenger side... need more traction.

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Report this Post05-05-2013 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It was raining, so I wasn't temped to take the car out driving, so I backed it into the garage and started taking it apart. One of the projects for vacation week is swapping out the 85mm MAF for the LS3/LS7 card MAF.

I started off with a section of 4" tubing and made a shelf so the MAF would have a flat space to mount:


Here is the inside of the tube with the MAF sensor installed:


Removed the old MAF and test fitted the new tube section:



I welded to the tube section to the original air intake tube (fewer silicone couplers and clamps). Once the welds were smoothed, I sanded the tube and applied some more truck bed coating to it:


While letting the tube dry, it was time to swap out the connector end since they were different. The good news is it literally is just swapping out the connector end. Here are the two connector ends (LS2 on the left, LS7 on the right). Each one was opened up, the terminals released and pulled out of the housing:


Here are the terminals from the harness:


The terminals are flipped between the two MAF sensors, so I just had to install the new connector flipped over. The really nice part is the terminal retaining latches are flipped as well between the two housings, so I didn't even need to rotate each wire 180 degrees. Just slide off the old connector, flip the new connector and slide it onto the terminals in the harness... doesn't get much easier.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-06-2013 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

New MAF sensor and modified intake tube are now installed:



While the TB was off, I drilled the MAP sensor hole over sized so I could switch back to the LS4 MAP sensor. I ordered the adapter harness, but got an email that it was back ordered. So I ordered just the LS2 MAP female connector end and I can make my own adapter harness with the LS4 MAP pigtail that I removed when I did the harness. Here is a picture of the LS4 MAP sensor installed:


While still working in the engine bay, I removed the thermostat that I had previously drilled a couple of holes in. It was taking the car too long to get up to temp and on cool mornings it wouldn't get much above 165 degrees.


I also took the time today to prep the A/C system for a charge. I replaced all the o-rings, swapped out the orifice tube and added the R134A fittings. I hope to have the A/C all charged up later this week.

Another key project for this week is to make all the yellow disappear... not a fan of it at all. Makes the car look too "ricky racer" and draws too much attention. Time and $$$ are just not in the cards right now to get the car painted vodoo blue, but I can make the yellow disappear. First step was to remove all the stickers (Pontiac, Formula, Fiero):




Later this week, some Gunmetal Grey Plasti-dip will arrive and I will use it to cover the yellow painted surfaces. So the car will still have the wide stripe (not really a fan of it either), but at least it will be in a more subtle color and when it is time to paint, the plasti-dip will just peel off.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post05-06-2013 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So much to learn in this thread, Thanks for the info.

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Report this Post05-07-2013 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Is there a PCV valve in this elbow that needs to be replaced during the swap?
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-07-2013 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Is there a PCV valve in this elbow that needs to be replaced during the swap?


The LS engines don't use a traditional PCV valve, they have a small orifice restricter in one of the 2 hard lines coming out of the valve covers. Its more of a fixed air bleed setup.

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Report this Post05-07-2013 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks.

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aaronkoch
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Report this Post05-08-2013 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Later this week, some Gunmetal Grey Plasti-dip will arrive and I will use it to cover the yellow painted surfaces. So the car will still have the wide stripe (not really a fan of it either), but at least it will be in a more subtle color and when it is time to paint, the plasti-dip will just peel off.



Don't know if you saw my build thread, it's not even in the same league as yours, but I just plasti-dipped my car and it's fun stuff! Cheap, easy, and different, just like me.

Just do the whole car in dip, as it's removable when you're sick of it, and it's easier to mask the openings than tape out the stripe..

Good luck!

My Plasti Dip experiment is on the last page of my build thread in my sig.

------------------


Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

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Report this Post05-08-2013 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:
Don't know if you saw my build thread, it's not even in the same league as yours, but I just plasti-dipped my car and it's fun stuff! Cheap, easy, and different, just like me.

Just do the whole car in dip, as it's removable when you're sick of it, and it's easier to mask the openings than tape out the stripe..


Yeah, I saw your thread and dipping the whole car and yours looks pretty good. I assume you used the sprayer, but I am using rattle cans, and so far I am not very impressed. The cans have a fan tip, but it doesn't transfer anything close to a uniform pattern in the fan pattern (not even heaviest in the center). Result are a bunch of heavy and light areas even when I overlap 50% from pass to pass.

The grey is better than the yellow (color-wise), but the coverage isn't very consistent. I might just peel it back off, scuff the yellow and just repaint the striped portion with my paint gun.


[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-08-2013).]

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Report this Post05-11-2013 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for diabloroadsterSend a Private Message to diabloroadsterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey guru- I was wondering if you have reweighed your car since the LS4 swap? I reweighed mine this past week at the same place I had mine done when I had the iron headed sbc/Fiero 5 speed. Back then it was 3160lbs with 1/2 tank of gas, now with the LS4 its 3240 with 1/2 tank of gas so it gained 80lbs. I was hoping to loose some but considering I added some metal bracing, the 4t653hd is no light wieght and I added a bigger battery along with some more stuff.

Also took it to the dyno this past thursday, I was hoping the tuner would be able to tweek my tune on the dyno but he had never done any tuning with Tunerstudio but he said my tables looked really good. I had done about 100 miles worth off street tuning and they seem to be dailed in pretty good. We did 5 pulls with the best being on the 3rd pull putting down 272hp/288tq. The first 2 pulls I had some dipps on my VE table but the 3rd and 4th pull were almost the same and the 5th was down from heat soak I guess but only about 7hp/7tq. Not too bad considering its still has the stock cam and a truck intake with a boarded throttlebody.

So overall Im pretty happy with it, the car will roast the huge rear Diablo tires with a semi agressive throttle mash from a dead stop and get the rear a little loose from a roll. Having the paddleshift trans is night and day difference with the crappy Fiero 5 speed, it feels so wierd starting from 1st and it making power all through the gears. I never really realized just how crappy 1st gear was with the fiero 5 speed and sbc until now, I knew it sucked but didnt how much it suck until I streched the LS4's legs some.

Im already prepping for a repaint now, and this fall do the cam swap and few other upgrades to the LS4.
So thanks again for all the help along the way, I couldnt have done it with out you and Kemp3.....

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Report this Post05-12-2013 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I haven't been able to get mine weighed yet, but my old GT clone with SBC/Getrag swap was 2960 lbs and I am hoping the coupe with LS4/F40 will weigh in at 2850. The old setup had all the GT panels, power accessories, trailer hitch and the SBC swap with iron heads, cast exhaust manifolds and a 30 lb flywheel. The LS4/F40 car is pretty bare bones coupe (no PW, PL or PM), is hitch free (30lb savings), the flywheel is 18 lbs less, the LS4 is lighter as well, but the F40 adds about 30 lbs vs. the getrag and the 13" brake kit adds about 13 lbs to the car vs. the 12" setup the old car had.

Your dyno #'s are pretty good for a mostly stock combo with the intake/TB swap and a lower restriction exhaust. Most stock LS4 setups put about 240ish hp to the wheels, so you are up nearly 30hp for your mods so far.

I have been busy swapping the roof panel (no more sunroof). When I started the roof panel swap, the carpet was wet from sitting outside during the rain, so I pulled all the carpet back out. I have the new top panel sanded down and ready to primer/paint before it is installed on the car.

Spent several days waiting on the needed pigtail to make the adapter harness so I can run the LS4 MAP sensor (and working on my 4cyl Fiero and the wife's 99 Maxima), but the pigtail came in yesterday so I should be able to get the car started once more. Once it runs again, I will evacuate the A/C system and charge it with 134A.

Then once the roof panel is back on I can start the tuning process again to dial in the LS7 MAF. Maybe in 2-3 weeks I will get it on a dyno to see what kind of numbers is puts down.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-12-2013).]

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Report this Post05-18-2013 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The roof panel swap is now complete. It came off a white car, so I wanted to get it painted black to atleast match the current paint on the car (I would like to get the whole car painted voodoo blue eventually, but black works for now). I really hate painting... this panel is far from perfect but it will work till I get the car painted professionally.


I also finished up plasti-dip coating the yellow stripe on the spoiler, so now there is no longer any yellow showing on the car:


My floor mats from boostdreamer showed up and look good!




I am hoping to have the car ready to drive again on Sunday and get the LS7 MAF dialed in.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post05-18-2013 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

While letting the tube dry, it was time to swap out the connector end since they were different. The good news is it literally is just swapping out the connector end. Here are the two connector ends (LS2 on the left, LS7 on the right). Each one was opened up, the terminals released and pulled out of the housing:





thanks for posting the pics of the connectors apart, I had to do something similar working on my swap today and it was helpful!

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 05-19-2013).]

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Report this Post05-19-2013 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Back to driving the car... I really like this car!

The LS4 MAP conversion was a step in the right direction so now the VE airflow is making sense vs. the MAF air flow. Since I tuned the MAF before ever adjusting the VE side (stock equation coefficients) the MAF airflow should have been significantly higher than the VE airflow above 5K, but it wasn't. Now with the LS4 MAF back installed, the MAF airflow is substantially higher than the VE airflow north of 5K. This is also why the delivered torque being calculated in the ECM wasn't matching up either. The LS4 MAP is calibrated differently than the LS2 one. HP tuners allows entering the MAP values for scaling in the diagnostic side, but not for the normal operation side. So word of advice is to not swap MAP sensors from the ecm calibration you are using.

The LS7 MAF upgrade didn't solve my vacuum issues at WOT... just going to have to live with it until I decide to upgrade manifolds and go with a larger TB. I did misread the pin out conversion and didn't notice they flipped the location of B & C pins. So I had to flip them at the connector.

I plan to drive the car most of this week finishing up the MAF tuning and then go back and revisit the VE tuning. Then continue to work on all the small things.

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Report this Post05-22-2013 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dragged home a quasi-twin to my daily driver. Its an 86 GT/auto with painted ground effects and my DD is an 88 GT clone with 2.5/125C. The wife imposed a 2 Fiero limit 7 years ago when we moved to KY, but occasionally I go over it for a while and live to tell about it. It will be used for R&D purposes as an 84-87 example.



The LS4/F40 car decided is was being ganged up on by the red cars, so it retreated to the garage for some wiring mods for data collection of the CAN signals between the ECM and TCM.



These decals came today. They are for the smooth fastback style sail panels I have yet to install and the rear decklid where it used to say Fiero in yellow. I would have much preferred decals like my avatar, but these will work for now. They are Silver to contrast with the black and go with the grey that is now covering the yellow.



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Report this Post05-24-2013 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

A couple weeks ago, I did the LS7 MAF upgrade on my LS4 and immediately noticed that the intake air temp being scanned jumped quite a bit. In my install, the exhaust does not pass under the air intake, so it doesn't see much higher temps than ambient under most situations. However, when I was logging with the LS7 MAF (and its IAT sensor), I was reading 111 degrees on a mid 80 degree day while driving at highway speeds. On a first start of the day when it was 65ish degrees out, it was showing 95 degress before the car was started and 85 once air was moving through the tube.

The real issue with this is the temps it was reading was pulling 5-6 degrees of timing and hurting performance.

When I compared the IAT tables between the E67 LS4 and the LS7, the entered values were exactly the same, but the scale (ohms) for each row was significantly different. So I put both tables in excel and found the proper values for the LS4 e67 scale to read the appropriate temps with the LS7 MAF. Below is a picture with the stock LS4 values for both E40 and E67 versions, the LS7 values and the modified tables for both the E40 and E67's. You will notice that even the two stock LS4 tables are different.

This might come in handy if any other LS4 swap wants to run the LS7 MAF.

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