I don't really have any interest in doing 4.9 swaps to Fieros.
However, I took a bunch of pictures as we worked out the details of mounting the starter. I'll put together some instructions for people getting ready to do 4.9 swaps to show them how to avoid hacking up a good transmission.
I mean, it's bad enough to waste a good Fiero putting a 4.9 in it......... but it's even worse, when you hack up a perfectly good Fiero transmission too.
It's just hard for me to believe that 4.9 stick shift swaps have been around for several years & no one ever addressed this starter deal. No one ever thought "hey there has to be a better way".
It's just hard for me to believe that 4.9 stick shift swaps have been around for several years & no one ever addressed this starter deal. No one ever thought "hey there has to be a better way".
Archie
Using a ministarter to avoid trimming the tranny bellhousing is part of BubbaJoe's instructions on his website. See item # 10 on the parts page:http://members.fortunecity.com/bubbajoexx/id14.htm. "10 after market mini starter for gm front drive 2.8 V6 (CSI OLDS 142 tooth high torque starter)"
However, if you want to save some $$, you can just reuse the starter that came with the 4.X engine and trim the bell housing. http://members.fortunecity.com/bubbajoexx/id17.htm. Here is the second to last comment on the page: "For those who do not want to spend the high dollar on the 119m mini starter you can clearance the bell housing to clear the stock Caddy starter without any adverse effects as to its strength I have done so on many without breakage."
This has been a choice to make on the 4.X series swaps for several years. It was around when I did my 4.5 conversion close to 4 years ago.
Now cutting on a brand new 6 speed is entirely different than cutting on a tranny that can be replaced for about the cost of the starter needed to avoid cutting.
...I mean, it's bad enough to waste a good Fiero putting a 4.9 in it......... but it's even worse, when you hack up a perfectly good Fiero transmission too.
Not that I am a 4.9 cadi fan...... but 4.9 swaps don't require "hacking" into the wheel well on the Fiero.
Originally posted by Archie: I mean, it's bad enough to waste a good Fiero putting a 4.9 in it......... but it's even worse, when you hack up a perfectly good Fiero transmission too.
LOL.....
Funny....somebody at work the other day asked me "Why are you wasting a good Cadillac 4.9 putting it into a Fiero?"
Keep up the good work Archie....thanks for taking the time to keep us updated.
[This message has been edited by Frizlefrak (edited 03-06-2006).]
Originally posted by fieroguru: Using a ministarter to avoid trimming the tranny bellhousing is part of BubbaJoe's instructions on his website.
Wow, that's good to hear, I'd hate to think that I'm the only one who just didn't like that hole in the transmission case.
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:
Not that I am a 4.9 cadi fan...... but 4.9 swaps don't require "hacking" into the wheel well on the Fiero.
The Fiero transmission is cast aluminium & cutting a hole in it with a saws-all can't help but to leave stress risers which will turn into cracks sooner or later.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 03-06-2006).]
Woah. that looks pretty bad. I cut mine out with a series of drill holes and then filed everything with a file and then a rat tail file. Then finished it all up with sandpaper and a coat of paint. Tried to make it look nice at least even if the hole's WAY too big...
-Rick
[This message has been edited by GT (edited 03-06-2006).]
Woah. that looks pretty bad. I cut mine out with a series of drill holes and then filed everything with a file and then a rat tail file. Then finished it all up with sandpaper and a coat of paint. Tried to make it look nice at least even if the hole's WAY too big...
-Rick
Well that does look a lot better than the one I saw. The smoothing of the edges should keep the stress risers to a minimum.
I wonder, does the clutch slip when driving in heavy rain or snow?
I wonder, does the clutch slip when driving in heavy rain or snow?
Don't know yet, the engine's going in on Saturday. I want to build a little sheild to try to keep the elements out.
quote
Not that I am a 4.9 cadi fan...... but 4.9 swaps don't require "hacking" into the wheel well on the Fiero.
I wanted to say something here. I've always been one of those guys that said that I would never buy an Archie kit because you have to cut the hole for the water pump. My first swap back in '98 was a five speed 3800SC. I wanted a V8 but I didn't want to cut the chassis. So I built the 3800SC. It ran great but still sounded like a six cylinder. Now over the last year I've built a Caddy V8 for the same reason... didn't want to cut the chassis. I've spent over six grand trying to eeek out 300hp in my 4.9 and I'm not even sure it's going to do it. Had I bought an Archie kit I could have had a small block Chevy with aluminum heads and a cam with GOBS of aftermarket parts available for about the same price. I found out in the process of my current swap that there are folks who have thought of creative ways around the chassis cutting like remote water pumps and modifying four cylinder and 3.4TDC water pumps to make it all fit. The only REAL advantage to the 4.x is that it weighs the same as the 2.8.
So what I'm saying is even though I'm proud and happy with what I've built, it sure would have been a LOT easier and I'd have a LOT more power with the Archie kit... There are ways around the water pump frame cutting.
Thanks for all you do Archie and staff.
------------------ -Rick Stewart 85GT 5.0CaddyV8/Getrag 5-spd in progress... www.V8Fiero.com
[This message has been edited by GT (edited 03-07-2006).]
There are ways around the water pump frame cutting.
Not to mention, you're not actually cutting the frame, but only the sheet metal inner fender liner. My biggest concern with the remote water pump would be noise. I'd love to see someone mass produce an adapter to use an offset belt driven pump so no cutting of any kind is involved.
I'd also like to see a comparison of the LS1 and LS4 swap. How much room do you actually save with the LS4? No adapter plate required, and the engine is designed to be shorter than an LS1, plus is uses an offset water pump from the factory. Hmm, which also asks the question: will the LS4 accessory belt setup fit on an LS1.
So what I'm saying is even though I'm proud and happy with what I've built, it sure would have been a LOT easier and I'd have a LOT more power with the Archie kit...
Thanks for all you do Archie and staff.
One of these days I will do an Archie Kit. No doubt an SBC can make more power more easily than the most elaborate 4.9 build-up. I put my junkyard 4.9 in because I wanted cheap V8 power. If I were building up a V8 engine from scratch I would choose the SBC any day.
Not to mention, you're not actually cutting the frame, but only the sheet metal inner fender liner.
Right, exactly. I typed the wrong word. My problem was not so much the cutting, but having part of the engine sticking out so close to the wheel. I'm sure it's not an issue mechanically but it just bugs me. Just like having to cut the tranny bell housing, or having to cut the sheet metal to get my rear cradle bolt out (the bolt head broke off so I couldn't even turn the bolt). But, sometimes ya just gotta cut.
We need an update on the PFF roadster. Did you run it through the gears?
Jack
Well...... ok.
These pictures were taken yesterday.
The guys built a beautiful exhaust system for the car today.
Everything is looking good.
We will make the 1st drive with a 6-SPEED transmission tomorrow. Then by Monday it will be on the test drive routine as weather permits. We've got to get some miles on it before heading to Daytona 2 weeks from today.
We will make the 1st drive with a 6-SPEED transmission tomorrow. Then by Monday it will be on the test drive routine as weather permits. We've got to get some miles on it before heading to Daytona 2 weeks from today.
Archie
"test drive routine"
'Yeah, the pay at this job stinks, but the fringe benefits are AWESOME!'
The Fiero transmission is cast aluminium & cutting a hole in it with a saws-all can't help but to leave stress risers which will turn into cracks sooner or later.
The FIRST EVER 6 speed LS1 Fiero was driven around the area by the shop today.
Still have a little work to do to it but we did turn the 1st wheel on it today. It seems to run thru the gears pretty good & IT'S A SIX SPEED. (yeah I'm happy)
Didn't get time to take any pics of the Roadster today because we immediately went to work finishing up 6 speed swap #2. It will be test driven early tomorrow with the idea that it may be going home Saturday.
It's a burden but someone has to test drive these things.
Archie
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
"test drive routine"
'Yeah, the pay at this job stinks, but the fringe benefits are AWESOME!'
Hey Archie what kinda rpm's was the roadster turning in 6th , and at what mph? I'm not to knowledgable on the 6 speed's gearing, but I am very interested in the mpg improvements that'll come with the extra gear.
------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
Hey Archie what kinda rpm's was the roadster turning in 6th , and at what mph? I'm not to knowledgable on the 6 speed's gearing, but I am very interested in the mpg improvements that'll come with the extra gear.
This is a Roadster, I live near Chicago, today's temp was about 42*, it was rainy & wet most of the day, the Wind-Chill in a Roadster on a cold rainy day at 60mph is about -197. or more
The data acquisition part of the test driving will have to hold off for a few days.
This is a Roadster, I live near Chicago, today's temp was about 42*, it was rainy & wet most of the day, the Wind-Chill in a Roadster on a cold rainy day at 60mph is about -197. or more
The data acquisition part of the test driving will have to hold off for a few days.
Archie
If you're really anxious for some cold (bad pun) data, I think you could convince me to come up there and do a little testing, regardless of the weather...
what kinda rpm's was the roadster turning in 6th , and at what mph? I'm not to knowledgable on the 6 speed's gearing, but I am very interested in the mpg improvements that'll come with the extra gear.
I made up a spreadsheet to see what the MPH would come out to compared to the 4 speed I was running. I am only runing the stock tires (24.2 inch dia) and I think Archie's tires are a little taller. But at 2100 RPM = 68.4 MPH, 3000 RPM = 97.7, and 4000 MPH = 130.3. I hope to get my MPG up around 30 to 32 if I can keep my foot out of it.
I am new to the fiero stuff just got a 88 coup and am planiing on puting in a 4.3 V6 I bought it is a old race engine from the nascar bush racing i am going to lower the compression and turbo so i get the HP and dont have to cut the fiero
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 03-10-2006).]
Including a NEW LS1 engine wire harness, ECM Etc. Also including the new six speed trans & all new hardware for it, new clutch, 4 core rad, exhaust, all the LS1 V-8 kit parts, Labor & testing the total would be at about 19500.00. Of that amount, $6400.00 goes for the engine, harness & ECM, MAP etc.
I may have missed it, but how many ponies can you throw at these 6-speeds? I mean an LS1 is no slouch, and I'm sure somebody's going to modify the piss out of one, so I was just curious.
.
