quote Originally posted by Toddster: You see it wrong. That is not what I have a problem with. If you had any brains at all the FIRST thing you would acknowlege is that you just might be in error. Every great thinker does. Einstein (a Jew, BTW) even acknowledged that he might not have got it right with his Theory of Relativity. Self doubt is what pushes us to probe deeper and deeper for truth. Since you have no doubts about your theory of the Jews taking over the world, you are either a fool or a bigot. Which is it? In either case, your opinion has no validity if you can't bring yourself to accept that you might be mistaken, misinformed, or blinded by hate. Hence, open your mind or shut up.

Your the fool read it again. The whole thing this time in context with what it was a responce to.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Your the fool read it again. The whole thing this time in context with what it was a responce to.

OK, I re-read it. G-Nasty is an ignorant kid with no clue. I can simply ignore his blabberings.

But your statement, "The great jew conspiracy, they run not only our media but have tremendus sway over our gov." is not the opiniopn of someone who is just ill informed, but malicious. We have no need of hate mongers here.

And the word is "response"

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Sorry. I was just trying to place them in accurate chronological order. I seriously didn't mean to imply that they were related. (Whether or not that even matters.) My bad.

Well it does matter if when you take context of what I was saying is and mixt it all up then call me "delusional."

quote You still ducked the "militant society" thing. Which I was curious about. (Nevermind... Water under the bridge.)

Yes.. water under the bridge.. I somehow doubt you have the capability to forgive and forget.. maybe the forgive part until the an oppertune time comes along but more likely not forget. Which make the "my bad" above seem kind of a far fetched assessment.

No I didn't "duck the question"

quote quote Originally posted by Raydar: That's fine. But then you rail against our government as being untrustworthy, when dealing with the citizenry. Should everyone be armed? Or just the government? My reply I believe the second amendment... Sorry... I mean our trustworthey governments laws to the contrary make it pretty clear who is to be armed and not armed. quote Originally posted by Raydar: If everyone here were armed (assuming most of us are not already) and we were all prepared to challenge a common enemy, would that make us a militant society? And would that be a bad thing? MY REPLY Well..... I suppose that would depend on a few factors.

Dint bother to ask what those factor were because YOU WERE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN MY REPLY. Quite frankly I'm glad I didn't waste my time on it.

quote Everything else you said is about what I expected. I'll be quiet now, in case this thread can be salvaged. Please... carry on.

Thanks for the divine permission. Shall I bow and kiss your ass or something?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: That includes Americans over there who, by being there, support Hezbollah just like all the other residents.

I'm curious about this.
How do Americans (or anybody else, for that matter) support Hezbollah just by being there?
Hezbollah is what it is. I think most people over there would rather not have anything to do with them.
Even the moderate Arab countries have denounced their actions.

Kind of like saying that if I visit L.A., I support the Crips.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Just as I know when I hear a Lebanese man saying that Israel is doing something wrong and that it wont change your mind either. But what will? Will an Iraqi man flying a plane into a sky scraper chage your mind? How about Saudi national turned rogue? Or a Yemenese man in a tug boat headed out into the harbor to help a US Friggate? Any of these people going to change your mind? I somehow doubt it will do anything other than blind you with rage against those you have little understanding of or will scaresly give a second thought to other than squeze a trigger and unleash death.

And the circle of hate continues just as it has for thousands of years.

Well my fellow American... Are we ready to "wash (the blood off) our hands" now?

Just seem to me that the more "us" Americans get involved with israel and the supression of muslims the bloodier our hands get and the less freedoms we have.

I duno about you but I want out, I want the government out of there and never go back for any reason. ****em... **** their oil.. **** their money and **** them all.
I want my freedoms restored to pre 9/11, I want the army here where it belongs, protecting US. No acceptions.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: And the circle of hate continues just as it has for thousands of years.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: OK, I re-read it. G-Nasty is an ignorant kid with no clue. I can simply ignore his blabberings. But your statement, "The great jew conspiracy, they run not only our media but have tremendus sway over our gov." is not the opiniopn of someone who is just ill informed, but malicious. We have no need of hate mongers here. And the word is "response"

Ok lets clear this up.
All of what I wrote:
"But I can see where you vwould take his words with a grain of salt. The great jew conspiracy, they run not only our media but have tremendus sway over our gov."

Should have been easly understood but it wasn't. I'l alter it to better express what I mean.

"But I can see where you vwould take his words with a grain of salt. The great jew conspiracy, they run not only our media but have tremendus sway over our gov. "

Is that better. It was a dig at G-nasty. And correcting my spelling is preaty petty.

Well, I don't believe we're currently involved in this conflict. Yes, we're Israel's ally, but the U.S. hasn't done anything other than talks with regards to this issue.

I do think we should let them settle it. Arab nations and Muslim extremists would have a field day attacking Israel. But in the end I have no doubt Israel would obliterate any Arab resistance, and then all the Arab nations would come to the UN and the US begging for us to get involved to stop the slaughter.

Kind of like exactly what's happening now. Yeah, I say it's time for us to butt out. Let Israel settle this once and for all.

If you can maintain a civil tone I can answer that question.


The population of Lebanon is about 3,826,018. Not all of them are hesbalah yet Israel has killed quite a few innocent people trying to get at them. You may think it is acceptable collateral damage.. but I'm sure if your wife were visiting Lebanon and got killed your tune may be a bit different. Or you might say that hesbalah hid behind her... But I suppoes you might say it doesn't it really matter when an Isralie rocket killed her... It was worth it... wasnt it?

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I'm curious about this. How do Americans (or anybody else, for that matter) support Hezbollah just by being there? Hezbollah is what it is. I think most people over there would rather not have anything to do with them. Even the moderate Arab countries have denounced their actions. Kind of like saying that if I visit L.A., I support the Crips.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Dint bother to ask what those factor were because YOU WERE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN MY REPLY.

Au contraire. I asked you for a "for instance". You were more interested in how I was "connecting the dots" from one statement to the next. I honestly didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way. A minor point (to me, anyway) but I apologize if it appeared that way if it's even of importance to the discussion.
As I said before, it was merely a list of several points that I felt you were ignoring, that I had asked.
Forget it.

quote Shall I bow and kiss your ass or something?

You could at least buy me dinner first.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Well, I don't believe we're currently involved in this conflict. Yes, we're Israel's ally, but the U.S. hasn't done anything other than talks with regards to this issue.

Have you even listened to ONE DAMN word those people are saying? "we hold Israel and the UNITED STATES responsible."

So how do I explain myself to thos people... Lets see..

Ummm... Excuse me sirs... but I'm.. uhh.. well.. I'm.. not Americ... well.... I am an American but I'm not.. Uhhhhhhhh.. well you see sir.. Uhhhhhhh.... It was bad.. and we don't like bad but.. Uhhh. You see it goes like this.. Uhhhhhhhh... I was born and uhhhh....


Damn.. I almost sound like Bush during a speech

quote I do think we should let them settle it. Arab nations and Muslim extremists would have a field day attacking Israel. But in the end I have no doubt Israel would obliterate any Arab resistance, and then all the Arab nations would come to the UN and the US begging for us to get involved to stop the slaughter. Kind of like exactly what's happening now. Yeah, I say it's time for us to butt out. Let Israel settle this once and for all.

Well.. Thats all well and good but I think a message from the UN condeming the rocket attacks would go ALOT further. But at the same time. What the US says and what the US does are two entirely different things.. Just ask the native Americans.. the Arabs are catching onto this PDQ.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: "Hezbollah Bill" kind of has a nice ring to it. Don't you think? <snicker>

indeed

Simple fact is Israel ONLY responds to attacks on them. They never start it and so far they always finish it. The latest RESPONSE is because Hamas killed and captured a few Israeli soldiers and fired some rockets into their territory. It dont matter if its all civilian people working in an enemy arms factory whether they are 15 or 50 years old ...theyre an acceptable target militarily. We lost a lot of good guys in VN because of missiles fired at our planes that were put right next to schools and hospitals where we werent allowed to fire at them. We all thought then and now that by putting weapons in a percieved safe place that makes them a target. You dont just allow enemy soldiers to be killed....you have to destroy anything that allows them to continue. Bridges, roads, trucks, airports, harbors, crops, food stores, fuel...........etc etc.

Sorry if the Lebonese people happen to be in the way....but they allow the terrorists to live there, so they accept responsibility. If I was harboring a murderer in my house, do you think the swat team would not to anything to me or my property to get to him. If im hiding him, Im accepting the risk of what happens to me. I have no right to whine about it.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Dint bother to ask what those factor were because YOU WERE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN MY REPLY. Au contraire. I asked you for a "for instance". You were more interested in how I was "connecting the dots" from one statement to the next. I honestly didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way. A minor point (to me, anyway) but I apologize if it appeared that way if it's even of importance to the discussion. As I said before, it was merely a list of several points that I felt you were ignoring, that I had asked. Forget it.

Damnit.. you did it again! OUT OF CONTEXT. I can't believe it.. YOU are actually driving me nuts with this stuff.

quote quote Shall I bow and kiss your ass or something? You could at least buy me dinner first.

Dinner? Bahh..... Well maybe but you'll have to spoon me afterward.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: The population of Lebanon is about 3,826,018. Not all of them are hesbalah yet Israel has killed quite a few innocent people trying to get at them. You may think it is acceptable collateral damage.. but I'm sure if your wife were visiting Lebanon and got killed your tune may be a bit different. Or you might say that hesbalah hid behind her... But I suppoes you might say it doesn't it really matter when an Isralie rocket killed her... It was worth it... wasnt it?

Thanks.

In the first place, my wife wouldn't be there.
In the second place, she knows enough to stay away from the sh!t magnets (myself notwithstanding). If she found herself in such a situation (Hezbollah missile launcher 'tuning up' outside the window) she wouldn't hang around to watch. (It's all rhetorical anyway.)
Unfortunately, the people who live there don't have the option of not being there, or are too ignorant (or perhaps stunned) to recognize that if missiles are leaving their vicinity, that it's very likely that other missiles will be "arriving".

It still doesn't begin to explain how the residents (and foreign vacationers, for that matter) support Hezbollah just by being there.

So says the Jack Boot wearin, goose steppin punk.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: indeed

quote Originally posted by HezBillah: So says the Jack Boot wearin, goose steppin punk.

hahahahahahaha. Your s* just gets funnier by the minute. Anyone got some popcorn?

Good christ are these leftist Hezbollah and Lebanese arseholes in Canada ever pissing me off. They are now protesting out east saying that the Canadian government isn't doing enough to stop the conflict and are blaming our current conservative PM Stephen Harper for the recent deaths of the 8 Canadians. Now they are saying that our government isn't doing enough to evacuate the Lebs out of the country, even though we now have seven charter cruise ships, our Air Canada jets, and our Prime Minister has pared his own personal jet back to a skeleton crew on the way back from the G8 summit and is personally picking up an additional 120 evacuees. But no, thats not enough for the left. According to them the evil conservatives are out to get the Arabs and all these efforts are for moot.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Thanks. In the first place, my wife wouldn't be there.

NP

Cant say as I blame her. It's a damn war zone.

quote In the second place, she knows enough to stay away from the sh!t magnets (myself notwithstanding). If she found herself in such a situation (Hezbollah missile launcher 'tuning up' outside the window) she wouldn't hang around to watch. (It's all rhetorical anyway.) Unfortunately, the people who live there don't have the option of not being there, or are too ignorant (or perhaps stunned) to recognize that if missiles are leaving their vicinity, that it's very likely that other missiles will be "arriving".

Exactly the point. Some of those folks are peacefully going about their daily lives and have no choice but to be there. Kinda sucks to be them. Watching their country get all blown to smithereens.. Parents children and friends being killed indescriminently buy.. Isralee rockets and bombs.. Damn.. I'd be pissed off!!

quote It still doesn't begin to explain how the residents (and foreign vacationers, for that matter) support Hezbollah just by being there.

Its abstract thinking. Hezbollah is over "there".. fire a roocket!!! BOOM!!! Innocent people are dead and their lives changed forever.. ::: Shruggs:::: Bahh no biggie right?? But we got one of them Hezbollah sumbiotches!!! YAY!!

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Its abstract thinking. Hezbollah is over "there".. fire a roocket!!! BOOM!!! Innocent people are dead and their lives changed forever.. ::: Shruggs:::: Bahh no biggie right?? But we got one of them Hezbollah sumbiotches!!!

It's not like they are just "lobbing them over the fence". They are targeting the areas the missiles came from (and have hit a few missiles/launchers.)

OTOH, Hezbollah is targeting civilians (as they have been doing all along.) They're firing rockets into places where there were no rockets launched. Ever. Just people walking around.
There is a difference.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: It's not like they are just "lobbing them over the fence". They are targeting the areas the missiles came from (and have hit a few missiles/launchers.)

And a few innocent people WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HESBOLLAH except they happened to be "in the vicinity" of a hezbollah missle!!! Just walking back from market and BOOM!!! Dead!.. But hey.. They got one of them bastage hezbullah missile batteries.. IT WAS WOTH IT!! YAY!!!

quote OTOH, Hezbollah is targeting civilians (as they have been doing all along.) They're firing rockets into places where there were no rockets launched. Ever. Just people walking around. There is a difference.

tit for tat.. tit for tat.. tit for tat.. They did then they did. blahh then blahh.. The topic of discussion was about innocent Lebanese CITIZENS and potentially AMERICANS who have / were or may be killed yet have nothing to do with Hesballah..

Do you want to change the topic to israelie dead?

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Do you want to change the topic to israelie dead?

The discussion has been all over the map. At this point it's certainly not off-topic.
Especially since it's the other side of the same war.

Of course, the press would have you believe that the only people dying in this whole conflict are Lebanese women and children.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: And a few innocent people WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HESBOLLAH except they happened to be "in the vicinity" of a hezbollah missle!!! Just walking back from market and BOOM!!! Dead!.. But hey.. They got one of them bastage hezbullah missile batteries.. IT WAS WOTH IT!! YAY!!!

Yes, it is ABSOLUTELY worth it to take out an enemy missile launching site that is actively launching missiles at your civilians.
You're a genius...

A small look at the lebanese kids.







Something tells me that hezbola uses not only civilian sites to house and fire their missles but make sure little kids like this are realy close so when Israel fires back it looks like a bunch of kids just playing soccer got creamed.

Here's another theory.

Earlier, the idea was put forth that the US or Israel started this (which I disagree with completely) hoping that Iran would intervene, and give us an excuse to jump on them.

The other side of the coin is that perhaps Iran is prodding Hezbollah to attack (which I believe is much more likely) in order to take some of the heat off of them for a few weeks, so that they can proceed with some critical research in their atomic weapons program. (All speculation, but certainly not any less plausible than the 1st one.)
You have to admit, it makes one hell of a diversion.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: The discussion has been all over the map. At this point it's certainly not off-topic. Especially since it's the other side of the same war.

Well yeah... but... Hummmm I was refering to THIS particular topic.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I'm curious about this. How do Americans (or anybody else, for that matter) support Hezbollah just by being there? Hezbollah is what it is. I think most people over there would rather not have anything to do with them. Even the moderate Arab countries have denounced their actions. Kind of like saying that if I visit L.A., I support the Crips.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: If you can maintain a civil tone I can answer that question. The population of Lebanon is about 3,826,018. Not all of them are hesbalah yet Israel has killed quite a few innocent people trying to get at them. You may think it is acceptable collateral damage.. but I'm sure if your wife were visiting Lebanon and got killed your tune may be a bit different. Or you might say that hesbalah hid behind her... But I suppoes you might say it doesn't it really matter when an Isralie rocket killed her... It was worth it... wasnt it?

That was what we were discussing wasn't it?

quote Of course, the press would have you believe that the only people dying in this whole conflict are Lebanese women and children.

Well it depends on the outlet. I can see one side on one station and the other on another station. Tit tat tit tat tit tat.. He hit me.. no.. he hit me fiirst no you hit me first no you hit ME first... yack yeck blaahh blaaahhh Yeah ok whatever.. Jesus christ what a bunch of freeakin blubering idiots. If I had my wat both countries would be out of the picture real damn quick.. And you know what? They were.... when I turned the channel... Magic.

Actually I got tired of the whining after day one and havent watched the news since. Even scalded my friends for "watching too much of that bullshit."

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: That was what we were discussing wasn't it?

I thought we'd pretty much beaten it to death.

Israel and Hezbollah are going to continue to fire rockets at each other until one side gives up or somebody else intervenes.
Israel is targeting rocket launchers that happen to have been placed in the middle of populated areas by Hezbollah.
Hezbollah expects and encourages the "collateral damage" and is milking it for all the propaganda value they can get out of it.

Hezbollah, OTOH, is targeting Israeli civilian population centers, where there are no rocket launchers (or military installations of any kind, for that matter.) They are targeting civilians, as they have from the beginning.

We apparently don't agree on this, and likely never will.
What would you suggest?

quote Originally posted by Raydar: What would you suggest?

Pistols at ten paces!

How about saying **** you to both of those stupid ass countries and getting the fark out of there?

quote Originally posted by Raydar: We apparently don't agree on this, and likely never will. What would you suggest?

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: But then again.. I've seen many a bad ass hit the bar room floor after having had his theory swiftly disproven.

What did you mean by this?

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: How about saying **** you to both of those stupid ass countries and getting the fark out of there?

Well since we haven't joined the fray yet, I'd say you pretty much have no basis for anything you've said in this entire thread...

Those arent American weapons Israel is using?
The united states is not backing Israels current agression?

Humm.. No **** ?

We are in it up to our eyeballs bud. Just ask any Arab and he will gladly tell you.

quote Originally posted by fierogt88: Well since we haven't joined the fray yet, I'd say you pretty much have no basis for anything you've said in this entire thread...

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Those arent American weapons Israel is using? The united states is not backing Israels current agression? Humm.. No **** ? We are in it up to our eyeballs bud. Just ask any Arab and he will gladly tell you.

Those aren't Syrian and Iranian and Russian weopns that Hezbollah is using? Yes they are, but that doesn't mean that Syria, Iran, and Russia have entered the fray.
The United States has not backed Isreals "agression" since they are not the aggressor in this incident. The fact remains that Lebaneze Hezbollah killed eight Isreali soldiers and kidnapped two on Isreali land while firing rockets at isreali civilian targets. Period. Lebanese Hezbollah is the agressor, IDF is the respondent. Period.
And I don't know what arabs you have been talking too, but I've been following a very enlightening discussion between and Isreali and a Lebanese civilian, both very near the border, on another forum where they are posting constant front line updates. And the lebanese and Isreali are getting along mighty fine while calling the hezbollah that started all this every name in the book. I have my sources, you have nothing but conjecture.

Well.. If Iran were to start something without having anything to play with it would be like some drunk beer muscle bound idiot trying to take on a bar room by himself. It's stupid and he will have his ass kicked... bad.


OTOH if Iran has operational nukes.. well then thats a different story. Using the same analogy of a beer mucled drunk but he is now armed with a knife and gun and trying to take on an entire bar... In that situation.. things are a bit more... delecate.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: What did you mean by this?

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Well.. If Iran were to start something without having anything to play with it would be like some drunk beer muscle bound idiot trying to take on a bar room by himself. It's stupid and he will have his ass kicked... bad. OTOH if Iran has operational nukes.. well then thats a different story. Using the same analogy of a beer mucled drunk but he is now armed with a knife and gun and trying to take on an entire bar... In that situation.. things are a bit more... delecate.

Got it. Thanks.

As an aside...
It occurs to me that Arabs are generally good at "dickwagging", if nothing else.
Saddam said was going to wipe us out in Desert Storm, and again two years ago when we went back.
The "dreaded" Republican Guard collapsed like a house of cards.
We basically cleaned Saddam's clock. Twice.

Granted, we have a whole 'nother kettle of fish to deal with now, but that's not Saddam's doing.
And the Arabs who are fighting now, in Iraq, are using the same cowardly tactics as Hezbollah is using in Lebanon. Blending in and hiding among the civilians. They are taking advantage of the fact that we are trying not to kill civilians (even though we are not always successful in that regard.)
The Israelis aren't quite as particular (I can't say that I blame them), but then they are fighting for their very survival.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Got it. Thanks. As an aside... It occurs to me that Arabs are generally good at "dickwagging", if nothing else. Saddam said was going to wipe us out in Desert Storm, and again two years ago when we went back. The "dreaded" Republican Guard collapsed like a house of cards. We basically cleaned Saddam's clock. Twice. Granted, we have a whole 'nother kettle of fish to deal with now, but that's not Saddam's doing. And the Arabs who are fighting now, in Iraq, are using the same cowardly tactics as Hezbollah is using in Lebanon. Blending in and hiding among the civilians. They are taking advantage of the fact that we are trying not to kill civilians (even though we are not always successful in that regard.)

Very true, Saddam was a great high stakes poker player. Apparently he misjudged the US's threats.. and so did much of the free world from what I recall.

Incidentally.. don't think Iran wasn't taking notes on how their next door neighbor was invaided and occupied. Probably why they want nukes for "self defence"

Be careful about the use of the word "cowardly."

The object of the game is to win the war. There are many ways of winning a war. The US was the first nation formed by the use of such "cowardly" methods. Like sneaking across a frozen river on Christmas morning and attacking the sleeping Hessian troops in the town of Trenton. I don't remeber hearing about civilian casualties but then again I wasn't there to report on the skirmish. Surly there were civilians there at the time.

quote The Israelis aren't quite as particular (I can't say that I blame them), but then they are fighting for their very survival.

Nope they sure arent. But then again.. the "Muslim Nation" isn't very particular either. The way they see it, it's a matter of survival as well.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-19-2006).]