quote Originally posted by 84Bill: He is also a coward advocating US intervention in Iran. Hey Amil! Take you effing pro democracy ass back to Iran and do it yourself. With dipshitz like this running around who needs enemys? “Democracy is indispensable to Socialism.” - V. I. Lenin “Socialism leads to Communism.” - Karl Marx As a minority member of the much despised American democracy I'd like to award Amil the virtual swift kick in the ass.

As always, you COMPLETELY missed the point. It's not about *democracies*, it's about LIBERALS, with their appeasement and political correctness. Geez.

Your point was?

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: Your response is about what I expected it to be, you completely missed the point.

What, you can't read? C'mon Bill I gave you more credit than that. You know full well what the point is.

Here, have a look at this for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.standwithus.com/UCI_incitement2006.asp?videohigh=true

This is what it's all about, lies and deception. Here, this picture should help:

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 08-13-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: Your response is about what I expected it to be, you completely missed the point.

Yep same as usual. I guess I was expecting more than is possible. Guess he put his head back in the dirt.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-13-2006).]

Thats not a point, its a circus act.

Again. What is YOUR point? Verbalize it in your own words

quote Originally posted by Sourmug:

What the hell is Bob Hope doing there?? !!!
Nick

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: What, you can't read? C'mon Bill I gave you more credit than that. You know full well what the point is. Here, have a look at this for your viewing pleasure: http://www.standwithus.com/UCI_incitement2006.asp?videohigh=true This is what it's all about, lies and deception. Here, this picture should help:

The point is Bill, that by giving into the scare tactics and buying into the "if we're nice to them they wont hurt us" train of thought we as a society are simply allowing them to gain further ground. We become lulled to sleep by the liberal media who take up the cause of the different terrorist ideals and who down play the Muslim agenda and trivialize it. The bottom line is that we as a society being rational reasonable people try to deal with this in a rational reasonable way. Unfortunately the people on the other side are not reasonable or rational. They will gladly and happily kill you, me and anyone else.

We are stuck in an era where people are indoctrinated with post-modern ideals and believe that we should not presume to judge what another man does. The terrorists know this and use it to the fullest advantage. They are not constrained or hampered by this mode of thought. The useful idiots in our midst will complain and criticize those who take decisive action, as they themselves are too preoccupied with there own little corner of the world. We are all on this boat together and there is a bully manipulating us with the fear of death and torture. The question is, are we going to bend over and take it or are we going to say "enough" and take whatever steps are required? Political correctness will be our downfall.

Israel has the guts to stand up and say enough. But of course the alternative is to be driven into the sea. Are we going to wait until that is our only choice too?

"Use their systems, passports, citizenship, laws, traditions, books and media, create internal divisions among them, and inflict defeat on the kuffars [infidels], for in the current balance of power, all we need to do is to use their weaknesses as our strength." - Abul ala', comment posted in the Al-Ansar chat room, September 2005.

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 08-13-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: The point is Bill, that by giving into the scare tactics and buying into the "if we're nice to them they wont hurt us" train of thought we as a society are simply allowing them to gain further ground. We become lulled to sleep by the liberal media who take up the cause of the different terrorist ideals and who down play the Muslim agenda and trivialize it. The bottom line is that we as a society being rational reasonable people try to deal with this in a rational reasonable way. Unfortunately the people on the other side are not reasonable or rational. They will gladly and happily kill you, me and anyone else.

Funny, you speek of scare tactics and indoctrination in one sentense and in the last you offer up this great peral of wisdom

"Unfortunately the people on the other side are not reasonable or rational. They will gladly and happily kill you, me and anyone else."

I'd be willing to bet I'm more likely to be killed by a dumbass american citizen than a terrorist. So I'm not at all impressed by a towel headed retard one half a planet away. I mean really. How paranoid are you and how stupid can you be? If you want to **** with nutcases you ARE going to become the object of their attention.

quote snip: We are all on this boat together and there is a bully manipulating us with the fear of death and torture. The question is, are we going to bend over and take it or are we going to say "enough" and take whatever steps are required? Political correctness will be our downfall.

Yeah, I agree. It's time for a revolution in this country. And as far as political correctness. I hate African Americans, I hate Jewish Americans In fact I HATE anyone who does not put AMERICA FIRST! If you are not an AMERICAN FIRST then you are not my friend.

quote Israel has the guts to stand up and say enough. But of course the alternative is to be driven into the sea. Are we going to wait until that is our only choice too?

Israel? **** israel! **** Iran! **** Iraq! **** Afghanistan! and **** anyone who jeaprodizes the security of this country by trapsing all over the ****ing planet spreading democracy as if it were gods gift to humanity.
James Madison said, "Democracy is the most vile form of government.... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention, have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property, and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.
Tell me more about this indoctrinatination Sourmug. Tell me more about all the great virtues of democracy. This country is getting more ****ed up by the minute and you think the rest of the planet wants to hold hands with the US and sing Kumbaya? HA!! Good fukin luck with that pipe dream buddy!

Democracy is 49% planning the demise of the other 51%

quote "Use their systems, passports, citizenship, laws, traditions, books and media, create internal divisions among them, and inflict defeat on the kuffars [infidels], for in the current balance of power, all we need to do is to use their weaknesses as our strength." - Abul ala', comment posted in the Al-Ansar chat room, September 2005.

Tell me more about this "liberal" media and those who OPPOSE you and what YOU believe. Tell me about how they will DIVIDE "us". Ya know what forget it. You are so god damn stupid you cant even see how you are playing RIGHT along with "their master plan" of world domination.

I don't know why I waste my time.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-14-2006).]

Well, atleast you read my response. It's unfortunate that you retreated to your usual caustic remarks, mud slinging and name calling. Why can you not respond without these? I don't know what happened to you in the past but it has certainly twisted your perspective. I know that you don't care about anything except America and that you could care less about others outside your country, or so you claim (you certainly have a well voiced opion on eveyone else for all your non-caring). But in all honesty, if you and your country retreats into isolation it will surely be the undoing of America and you as well.

However, you can respond if you like but I don't think that you will actually take the time to think of anything constructive. It's too bad I know that there is a thoughtful mind locked behind the acid and the hate that you hide behind.

Nolan

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: Well, atleast you read my response. It's unfortunate that you retreated to your usual caustic remarks, mud slinging and name calling. Why can you not respond without these?

Because I don't play the political correct game.... thats why. I'm a repugnat being and damn proud of it.

quote I don't know what happened to you in the past but it has certainly twisted your perspective.

Would you honestly give a rats ass if I explained my past to you? I seriously doubt it so don't even try playing me like that. As far as me being "twisted" that is a matter of perspective.. just like my perspective of you being nothing more than idiot for believing that spreading this god awful democracy all over the ****ing planet under the banner of the United States is a great idea. As far as I'm concerned you are a traitor selling a crappy bill of goods and jambing it down the thoats of those who don't want it. Then too stupid to realize how pissed off they are about it when they smack you upside the head with a Boeing 777. This country was not founded on Democracy but instead was founded on the RIGHTS of the people. This country is supposed to be the safe haven for those who want to live a good life in a free country and not the dictator of policy to the world.
BY stomping all over the planet you are jeapodizing my life and the lives of others in this COUNTRY... but that doesn't matter to you does it? You say **** them dirty arabs... kill them all.. Kill everyone who opposes the great democracy.. I suppose you wanna kill me too.

quote I know that you don't care about anything except America and that you could care less about others outside your country, or so you claim (you certainly have a well voiced opion on eveyone else for all your non-caring).

Yup.. and I wouldn't care if you decided to live your life the way you wanted to either..

quote But in all honesty, if you and your country retreats into isolation it will surely be the undoing of America and you as well.

Once again you fail to understand what "made" this country so great at one time. Oh sure it's still just a tad better than Russia but not even Russia has the percapita imprisionment rate of this "great freedom loving country" we call the "United" States of America.

Tell ya what.. I'll move into your house and tell you how to live, how to raise your kids and how to screw the wife. I'm betting isolation will start looking real good after the first hour and you will be reaching for a gun and pointing it at me by the end of the day.

quote However, you can respond if you like

Geeze.. Should I send the thank you note to you or the king george bush? I mean wow.. thanks for bestowing upon me this great honor.

I'd like to thank the Acadamy.. sniff.. sniff...

quote but

Ass.. same thing. Usually starts off great and almost always ends with the same steaming pile.

I really like you BUT
Your a great person BUT
I care alot about you BUT
You are a hard worker BUT

Ya Ya... Disregard everything before the BUT and cut to the chase.

quote I don't think that you will actually take the time to think of anything constructive.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.. I just don't know what I would ever do without it.

quote It's too bad I know that there is a thoughtful mind locked behind the acid and the hate that you hide behind.

Uhh huh..

How about all those politically correct politicians? How about all that corrupt vile evil bullcrap they ALL hide just under the surface of that baby kissing face of theirs?
You know, the people who CONTROL your life through lies and deception. The ones that generate laws and regulations that at first seem well and good but if you could only see how much narrower the ground you are stand on just got. What about the ones in blue who allow you to live free as long as you go along with the program?
You arent free and you don't live in a free country.
Not only are you a slave but you are a bobble head nodding in total agreement with the powers that be who tell you how to think, how to speek how to act. You are bombarded by your masters bullcrap every waking moment of you existance. They control everything you do, no matter what you do and where you "choose" to do it. You cant even walk down the street anymore without official "papers" proving you are who you say you are... to be submitted upon "lawful" command.
Freedom has been revoked. It has been replaced by a contract, a "privilage" that you.. and me have signed that is subject to revocation on a whim so you have no choice but to go along with it.

Can you see me?

quote Nolan

Good luck Nolan.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-14-2006).]

LOL OK Bill. You keep going the way you want. Believe me, I do not believe in political correctness of any sort, nor am I proposing the spread of democracy. You have not understood a single thing that I wrote nor did you understand the article that I referred to initially. You are locked into some world of your own making. You are welcome to it if you chose to remain there but don't blame everyone else you have done it to your self. The unfortunate thing is that the article describes much of what I have seen you write in the past but you can't see that for all the anger. I wish you luck and hope that one day you can see this for your self.

I won't respond to anything further you may say, why should I? You don't seem to be able to carry on a conversation.

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 08-14-2006).]

your welcome to use these sour, lol

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-14-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: LOL OK Bill. You keep going the way you want.

Wow.. once again with the divine permission.. jeaz.. I don't know what I have done to deserve this most recent shower of freedom to be me..

You people really amaze me sometimess.

quote Believe me, I do not believe in political correctness of any sort, nor am I proposing the spread of democracy.

Well.. maybe you really are the honest type.

quote You have not understood a single thing that I wrote nor did you understand the article that I referred to initially.

Oh, I understood it completely. I just didn't like it and I don't agree with it.

quote You are locked into some world of your own making.

Arent we all?

quote You are welcome to it if you chose to remain there but don't blame everyone else you have done it to your self.

Wow this pleathora of grants is overwhelming. With all the PERMISSION you have given me lately I'd hate to think how miserable and angry I may become once it is no longer offered.
So what bothers you more? My refussal to accept your grants or my complete lack of need for them?

quote The unfortunate thing is that the article describes much of what I have seen you write in the past but you can't see that for all the anger.

Much of what I have seen written in this thread by others is hate filled and directed at me, naturally you don't see that. Nor do you the how reactive and quick to judge many of you are. I find it stunning how people just shut down all reasoning and harden themselves to any other possibilities and in fact go out of the way discredit and disregard. You say it is "my hate" that acts as a vail to the "thoughtful mind" which lurks behind it.... LOL. Yeah... and you (like many others) can't see the forest through the trees. I've never been one to stay within the lines and that automatically makes me the object of negative attention. Go ahead and be different from everyone else, I dare you to be an "individual" with your own views apart for the "acceptable", voice them and find out exactly what I'm talking about. Or you could just play it safe, be quiet or maybe even go for the acceptance and agree with the majority... They love that... Ohh yes.. they do love that.

quote I wish you luck and hope that one day you can see this for your self.

Thanks but I don't believe in luck. Oh I see it believe me when I say I see it

quote I won't respond to anything further you may say, why should I?

Awwww... I'm heart broken.
Perhaps I will go out and kick the crutches out from under an invilid or pick on a weakling so I can make myself feel better. Maybe I'll bring a few of my friends along for support so they can encourage me, make me feel good as they laugh at someone elses misery.
I warned you about what would happen once the acceptance stopped.

Nolan... You are not that important to me and I won't sit here and delude myself into thinking that I am important to you. Your views and opinions (along with everyone elses) OF ME are meaningless and so are these great honors (which come out in atleast every other sentense) you have bestowed on me of late.

I'm not going to agree with you (or anyone else) just because I want to be your friend and I could care less if you never repied to me ever again. If you can't respect that then you obviously don't respect me and.. well duh.. I won't respect you either.

quote You don't seem to be able to carry on a conversation.

Perhaps you should try alittle harder to have one.

With the cease fire agreement a day old, ten Katusha rockets landed in southern Lebanon. Why would Hezbolala fire rockets at southern Lebanon?
I think Israel should continue the a$$ kicking. Zero tolerance/Imminent destruction is the only thing these whackos can understand. Heck, they are claiming victory.

No more surgical strikes, we should be tossing daisy cutters into Lebanon or in the least handing them to Israel. These fanatics have no compassion for anyone and are savages. We have fight the like we fought the Japanese and Germans. We need to stop playing around with them.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/28B398D5-2FBC-4C7F-9386-1D0F64FF9C06.htm

Interesting article right from the arab press. I notice that 60 countries are gathering together aid to rebuild Lebanon... no mention of anyone gathering aid to rebuild the damage in Israel. I wouldn't doubt that Israel might even be one of those countries supplying aid to Lebanon, they've done it before.

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Interesting article right from the arab press. I notice that 60 countries are gathering together aid to rebuild Lebanon... no mention of anyone gathering aid to rebuild the damage in Israel.

Good link (news). Plus to Sweden.
Tell me again what the UN is for ?????? (not directed at you Scott)

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: No more surgical strikes, we should be tossing daisy cutters into Lebanon or in the least handing them to Israel. These fanatics have no compassion for anyone and are savages. We have fight the like we fought the Japanese and Germans. We need to stop playing around with them.

I disagree. I think the surgical strikes are the way to go. Most of Lebanon's people don't want Hezzbollah. The Lebanese aren't the problem. Hezzbollah is the problem.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Heck, they are claiming victory.

I saw that and laughed my ass off. First thing I thought of was Sadam saying the same thing when we were driving into Bagdad ?? LOL
Thats the kind of dumb azzes they are....everything they do is right and holy..(slmao)

Well, think about it. Israel did not destroy Hezzbollah's ability to attack.
They did not destroy the group itself.
Hezzbollah is still in Lebanon and still entrenched in the Lebanese government.
Israel has not yet retrieved their kidnapped soldiers, which is what started all this.

Israel won the battles, but I can easily see how this could be viewed as a Hezzbollah victory. To them any conflict that ends with them able to fight another day is a victory.

Which is why I don't think there should have been a cease fire until Israel finished the job. The cease-fire won't last and they'll be back to square one. All this does is give Hezzbollah time to rearm and regroup. If the peacekeeping forces in the South can keep the peace, I'll be surprised.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Well, think about it. Israel did not destroy Hezzbollah's ability to attack. They did not destroy the group itself. Hezzbollah is still in Lebanon and still entrenched in the Lebanese government. Israel has not yet retrieved their kidnapped soldiers, which is what started all this.

And israel has done an absolutly stellar job of destroying Lebanon. Cudos to them.

quote If the peacekeeping forces in the South can keep the peace, I'll be surprised.

Lets try to dispell this metaphoreic euphemism right now. An armed man with a gun is not a peacekeeper.
I will never understand how anyone in this country can delude themselves into thinking that a guy with a gun is a peacekeeper. If that were the truth then I would be allowed to walk down any street in America armed to the teeth.

I'd bet dollars to donuthols if I did I'd be surrounded by police before I could make it to the end of the block... Women and children screaming and running for their lives... OH my!

Just let the bastards kill each other with their own money.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: And israel has done an absolutly stellar job of destroying Lebanon. Cudos to them.

Hardly. The destruction in areas attacked is severe, no doubt, but far from destroying the country. To the individual if their house is destroyed, the whole world is destroyed. By the same token, the cities in the North were untouched, so I guess nothing ever happened, right? It's gotta be all or nothing, right?

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Lets try to dispell this metaphoreic euphemism right now. An armed man with a gun is not a peacekeeper. I will never understand how anyone in this country can delude themselves into thinking that a guy with a gun is a peacekeeper. If that were the truth then I would be allowed to walk down any street in America armed to the teeth. I'd bet dollars to donuthols if I did I'd be surrounded by police before I could make it to the end of the block... Women and children screaming and running for their lives... OH my!

Call it a euphemism if you want. That's what the force is being referred to, so that's what I called it. I could have called it Ned, but only you would know what I meant.

And yes, if you went down the street armed to the teeth, you would be surrounded by the police, and arrested most likley. Probably has something to do with your favorite pasttime of baiting cops. The pseudo-adult equivalent of the playground bully getting in your face and pointing his fingers a fraction of an inch from your face yelling, "I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!!!!"

Ned?? LOL! You're right about that.

Why not just call it wat it is? That being an occupying army (the IDF) imposing martial law in southern Lebanon.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Call it a euphemism if you want. That's what the force is being referred to, so that's what I called it. I could have called it Ned, but only you would know what I meant.

quote And yes, if you went down the street armed to the teeth, you would be surrounded by the police, and arrested most likley. Probably has something to do with your favorite pasttime of baiting cops. The pseudo-adult equivalent of the playground bully getting in your face and pointing his fingers a fraction of an inch from your face yelling, "I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!!!!"

Is that how you see it?

quote Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Are you absolutly sure you I'm the bully?

I called it what it's being called for the sake of clarity - not trying to make a political statement.
And the IDF is not imposting martial law in Southern Lebanon. The IDF is withdrawing so Lebanese and UN troops can move in. They are the "peacekeeping" force. I would consider the IDF an occupying force.

And yeah, while you may indeed be within your rights, you do try to stir up trouble just because you can. Can you ride through a bad neighborhood and make cops think you're up to no good? Absolutely. You have every right. But cruising back and forth past the cops is egging them on. You're within your rights, but you'd be foolish not to expect some kind of response.

I agree completely with the 2nd Amendment. I believe our government is taking too many of our freedoms away and that we are letting them do it. There should be more outrage over the loss of any of our liberties.

You're more like the kid who got sand kicked in his face by the beach bully, but you just have to keep buzzing around him trying to provoke him because it's your right. And you act surprised when you get sand kicked in your face again.

I have the right to drop a hammer on my toe, but it's not a particularly good idea.

Israel will give them one more chance. I agree nothing was accomplished but now the rules are clear. Another provocation and Israel will not just target the "state within the state" but the whole state itself. And Israel knows, along with everyone else with some sense, that it is only a matter of time before they attack again. Its in their nature, what they teach their children, in their words, written policies and doctrines. You can not rationalize with these people, and this is why we have wars. We could not talk to Hitler, and so we had WW II. Not to say that this will develop to that extent. Americans do not understand how serioius a threat this is.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I called it what it's being called for the sake of clarity - not trying to make a political statement. And the IDF is not imposting martial law in Southern Lebanon. The IDF is withdrawing so Lebanese and UN troops can move in. They are the "peacekeeping" force. I would consider the IDF an occupying force.

Same thing. Armed men = armed men. Control = martial law.

If it happend here you WOULD know the difference...... Enjoy your slumber because it is happening here.

quote And yeah, while you may indeed be within your rights, you do try to stir up trouble just because you can. Can you ride through a bad neighborhood and make cops think you're up to no good? Absolutely. You have every right. But cruising back and forth past the cops is egging them on. You're within your rights, but you'd be foolish not to expect some kind of response.

But... the question remains. Who is defending rights and who is violating them?

quote I agree completely with the 2nd Amendment. I believe our government is taking too many of our freedoms away and that we are letting them do it. There should be more outrage over the loss of any of our liberties.

Shaaaa... they are listening and they know how powerless and scared you are. Don't crow unless you are the cocky type.... like me.

quote You're more like the kid who got sand kicked in his face by the beach bully, but you just have to keep buzzing around him trying to provoke him because it's your right. And you act surprised when you get sand kicked in your face again.

No, I'm not at all surprised... I welcome it and unlike many lambs, I've got something for the bully who thinks it's ok to go kicking sand in peoples faces.

quote I have the right to drop a hammer on my toe, but it's not a particularly good idea.

No.. It's not a good idea but who am I to try and stop you? Your life is YOURS and if you are into masticating your pee pee into raw hamburgar who am I to say you arent allowed?

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-16-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: About the only difference between OBL and George Washington is geographical location...

That is an absolute load of crap. If you can't tell the difference, you're too DUMB to be an American.

Yeah..
You know, you are right I didn't give OBL enough credit.
OBL is a far better tactician and warrior because not only did he kick ass on his own turff but managed to attact a country 1/2 a world away. He got under the US governments skin so deep that new laws were written and they have altered your pethetic life forever...
Now thats power!!


All George did was give you a scrap of paper... Heh... not like it means anything to you anyway.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: That is an absolute load of crap. If you can't tell the difference, you're too DUMB to be an American.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Yeah.. You know, you are right I didn't give OBL enough credit. OBL is a far better tactician and warrior because not only did he kick ass on his own turff but managed to attact a country 1/2 a world away. He got under the US governments skin so deep that new laws were written and they have altered your pethetic life forever... Now thats power!! All George did was give you a scrap of paper... Heh... not like it means anything to you anyway.

What do you guys think - When a-holes say a-hole things, is it still considered entertaining? Or is it just irritating?

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Funny, you speek of scare tactics and indoctrination in one sentense and in the last you offer up this great peral of wisdom "Unfortunately the people on the other side are not reasonable or rational. They will gladly and happily kill you, me and anyone else." I'd be willing to bet I'm more likely to be killed by a dumbass american citizen than a terrorist. So I'm not at all impressed by a towel headed retard one half a planet away. I mean really. How paranoid are you and how stupid can you be? If you want to **** with nutcases you ARE going to become the object of their attention.

I just watched a documentary about the 1998 American Embassy Bombing in Kenya last night in which a 7 story building was leveled and hundreds of people killed. Apparently Sourmug is NOT paranoid but simply looking at history and drawing an obvious conclusion that these guys will kill us all if given the chance. Not scare tactics, just reality. Stop being an idiot.

quote I don't know why I waste my time.

Neither do we Bill. But thanks for giving us a reason to laugh every day.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I just watched a documentary about the 1998 American Embassy Bombing in Kenya last night in which a 7 story building was leveled and hundreds of people killed. OMG! You mean you actually turned off FOX news for more than 10 minutes?!?!?!? [quote] Apparently Sourmug is NOT paranoid but simply looking at history and drawing an obvious conclusion that these guys will kill us all if given the chance.

Yeah yeah yeah.. And the local police if given the chance will put anyone in jail. It's their job to bust people.. all day long.. every day. Look there are people who are going to use fear and intimidation to get you to change your mind.. The question is how scared and intimidated are you? Judging by how ****ed up this country has gotten since 9/11 I'd say you people are a bunch of spineless ****ing whimps.

quote Not scare tactics, just reality. Stop being an idiot.

And the reality is you and many others are scared shitless. Ohhh look over there behind the rock!!

quote quote I don't know why I waste my time. Neither do we Bill. But thanks for giving us a reason to laugh every day.

LOL! Anytime.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: And the reality is you and many others are scared shitless. Ohhh look over there behind the rock!!

I don't know about individuals, but overall as a society, I think you're right. But I think there's more to it than fear. People want to be protected, but if you ask most people they'll say they realize they can't ever be perfectly safe. So why the difference between what the individuals say and what the populace in general says?

I think it has more to do with blame. People want to blame somebody for anything that goes wrong, be it a terrorist attack, traffic jam, or they gained 5 lbs. In general, people are not willing to be responsible for themself and want to be able to blame someone, anyone, for whatever goes wrong.

9/11 happened. So, it's not just that it was an act of violence - but SOMEBODY had to be at fault. Why didn't the government do this or do that? Why did fill in the blank "let" this happen?

You got mugged? What were you doing to look like a target? You were carrying too much cash. You were in the wrong neighborhood, etc.

Until people are willing to take responsibility for themselves, this won't change. And that also means voting for candidates who believe the same way.

quote [B]Originally posted by Formula88 You got mugged? What were you doing to look like a target? You were carrying too much cash. You were in the wrong neighborhood, etc

Errrm...sorry Formula88..you are SO far off target with that kind of thinking, IMHO...Change that neighbourhood, not the personal choice to walk there.If you choose not to walk there, then you have solved the problem for yourself..but nobody else.Clean up the neighbourhood, you do it for all...
Nick

------------------
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quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Errrm...sorry Formula88..you are SO far off target with that kind of thinking, IMHO...Change that neighbourhood, not the personal choice to walk there.If you choose not to walk there, then you have solved the problem for yourself..but nobody else.Clean up the neighbourhood, you do it for all... Nick

That wasn't my opinion. I was stating that as the typical response you get if something bad happens to you in today's society. Someone will try to say it was your fault for some reason. Like if a woman is raped, they try to blame it on her clothes or the way she acted. I don't agree with it.

That type of thinking IS way off target and it's a big part of many of the problems society has today, IMO.

!! OK, got it now!! Wasn't a nasty attack,in fact not an attack at all just how I see those kind of problems.Solve it for all, you solve it for one..or anyone.Solve it for one, the rest still suffer.
Nick

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I don't know about individuals, but overall as a society, I think you're right. But I think there's more to it than fear. People want to be protected........

Agreed.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I think it has more to do with blame. People want to blame somebody for anything that goes wrong, be it a terrorist attack, traffic jam, or they gained 5 lbs. In general, people are not willing to be responsible for themself and want to be able to blame someone, anyone, for whatever goes wrong.

I am not so sure "blame" is the right word. I think fear causes blame. I think selfishness causes fear. Strength is derived from unity. So we all rally behind the lesser of "two evils".

quote Originally posted by Formula88: And that also means voting for candidates who believe the same way.

Candidates first believe the party line, not the "people" line. Coincidence that we have only "two parties" ? Why believe the people? They are just sheep that want. The elected candidate is the one that tells us what we want to hear.
The strength we have in unity is only as strong as the weakest link. Our real strength lies in each and evry one of us. I believe our enemy has strength because individually, they will die for their beliefs. Unselfishly. Pretty powerful stuff. The stuff the USA was made of. Was.

You are very close Formula88.

While crime may seem random in nature it can be easy blame the victim and a hell of alot easier to blame the victimize. For something like a mugging to occure it requires an infinate number of possibilities to make it happen. It's an interesting paradox, because a seemingly unpredictable pattern of events ultimatly brought the victim and victimizer together.. Just one change anywhere along the line in either persons lifetime and the outcome changes..

For example:
Had I just waited another 30 seconds or turned and went out they way I came, I would never have crossed paths with that police officer last week. I could replay it in my mind over and over and every time I alter just one aspect of my actions that night the outcome is the same.. I would not have pulled out onto that street at that moment in time and that police cruiser would have never been behind me. If the officer took one more turn around any block 3 hours earlier. If that officer was delayed before leaving for work just 1 minute. IF someone called the police and the officer was told to proceed to 123 main street for a domestic disturbence. Just one more minute chatting with my friend on the cellphone or a quick stop a McDonnalds for a burgar.. and we never would have met that night.

Was our meeting a carefully choreographed play of perfectly executed moves by both myself and that officer and a very large cast of characters all working together in perfect harmony or was it just a random event? Which is more rational? Which is more plausable?

So the question of how or why it happend is not so easily answered unless the motivations are exposed. Why was I stopped? Because I was there. Why was I there? Because as a free man living in a free country unbound to any restrictions so I chose to drive through "brown town" after dark. Why did I drive through brown town? Because I wanted to and because I can. Do I have some kind of morbid deathwish? No, I accept the consiquences of my actions, I'm not afraid to go places just because of some urban myths of white people being randomly murderd by black people. I'm not afraid of black people, I'm not afraid to walk out my door and see what is out there for me to discover. Could I have been shot and killed by a black man all doped up on crack? Sure.. the possibility does exists but then again I could have been killed by a person blowing through a light because they were yacking on the cell while on my way to brown town..or even in it.

I can not even try to fathom the possibilities and meathods of my own demize, only be aware that it will happen some day. I can accept that fate because we all share it. I've been mugged before. It wasnt a great tragity or a gross injustice because I manage to live through it. And that all I really want to do.. just live.

Anywho..... Regardless of all the crap above, regardless of all the random possibilities conspiring to make it happen, it boils down to one simple fact. IT IS someones job to stop me, investigate me, find something illegal and preosecute me for a crime.

So who is the victim and who is the victimizer? Am I all sweet and innocent as I appear to be? I damn well better be because being guilty of something will cost me something more precious to me than life itself and it sure as hell aint money.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Was our meeting a carefully choreographed play of perfectly executed moves by both myself and that officer and a very large cast of characters all working together in perfect harmony or was it just a random event? Which is more rational? Which is more plausable?

Neither. It is simple Probablity 101. If a cop passes a certain intersection X times per day and you pass the same intersection Y times per day, the odds that you will pass the intersection at the same time is basic probability (X/Y)N (<--superscript that N)