http://www.amfor.net/acs/

I am not familiar with this group (AMFOR), but some of their reports based on studies of adopted children are quite disturbing, And the one about two lesbians who adopoted a boy, and then arranged for a sex change operation for the boy, and their unbelievably selfish reasons for doing it is sick beyond belief.
This link is as a result of a Google search, and can't say I must believe everything in it...but I wouldn't have googled it in the first place, if I didn't have concerns about the subject
No. I don't believe they should be allowed to adopt children. We all have to pay a price for wanting to do something 'out of the ordinary'...don't we?
But..there are added implications and problems to preventing homosexuals from adopting. Take, for example, when a previously-married person decides they are in fact homosexual and not normal, and have a child/children from that previous marriage...would it be possible to make them hand over that child if they wish to become a same-sex 'marriage' partner? And if they were so forced..who would be given guardianship of the child/children? Suppose the other person in said marriage couldn't look after the offspring on their own?
There are far more complications involved in this, beyond the 'I have a right' attitude. The psychological wellbeing of any child is of far more importance than somebody wanting to behave in a way to be not considered normal, and yet still reap the benefits that are enjoyed by normal couples.
The happiness and wellbeing of children should be paramount.,.and I can see having two 'Mums' or two 'Dads' would lead to psychological damage being caused by schoolmates and friends later on in their childhood and puberty. People who put their desires and wishes above the importance of a balanced childhood of ANY child, have no right to have children. And that goes for ALL prospective parents. It will continue though. Just imagine if a lesbian couple decided to have one partner impregnated by an 'invitrio' process...and then the child grows up wondering who their real parents were, as WELL as dealing with having a female 'Father'.
'I want it all, and I want it now' seems to apply more and more to other things than consumer goods.
I tend to think that the ratio of 'real' homosexuals to normal people is probably around 0.005%...and the rest are either people who have failed too often in normal relationships, and turn to another in the same situation as themselves for companionship. The rest are people who consider it to be 'hip' to be gay.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: When did you choose to be straight?

When did a child predator decide to be one ? They say that is an incurable condition also.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, since you actually broke a commandment, you should not be allowed to adopt a child? being gay breaks no commandment, nor is a deadly sin.

I guess your question is mute eh ?
I have one for you. Can you name a deadly sin ?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: .....but - it seems they are to be executed, eh?

Where did you get that idea ?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: God may have wrote it originally, but men changed it to suit their needs.

Incorrect. The Bible of today is a factual interpretation of the original Bible. An international group of Biblical scholars oversee translations of the Bible.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: It seems that some people are condemning gays because they consider being gay a sin. It is not out place to condemn anyone because they have sinned, that is up to God, as he is the ultimate judge of everyone.

What condemnation have you seen here ?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Those condemning others don't even seem to know what a sin really is. Here is a quick definition. Sin is disobedience to God's commandments, either by doing what is forbidden or failing to do what is required.

Sin is only a disobedience to the Ten Commandments ?
I knew that you did not read the Bible.

quote Originally posted by Jaygee79: The goal of the gay community is not necessarily acceptance, but it's tolerance and respect.

Well, yeah, umm....say it again.....

quote Originally posted by Jaygee79: Just the term civil union alone is an example of inequality. So what if it includes the same rights. It's not considered the same thing. If it were, it would be called marriage. You don't see straight couples having civil unions. They don't need them, they're allowed to get married.

Tolerance, respect, or acceptance ? Same thing ain't it ? Have we seen one post which said civil unions with all the benefits of marriage would not be acceptable ? No, we have not. Which would suggest tolerance and respect..

quote Originally posted by Formula88: When did you choose to be straight?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: When did a child predator decide to be one ? They say that is an incurable condition also.

So you equate being straight with being a child predator?
Being black, white, Asian, etc. is also "incurable" - just like a child predator.

I don't know of any issue where child predators are petitioning for the right to adopt/raise families, though.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I don't know of any issue where child predators are petitioning for the right to adopt/raise families, though.

It was unheard of that gay couples were wanting to do it...till now.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So you equate being straight with being a child predator?

Not sure how I gave that idea.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Being black, white, Asian, etc. is also "incurable" - just like a child predator.

C'mon, I know that you are smarter than that.
You are actually saying that a child predator should be allowed to exist ?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So you equate being straight with being a child predator? Being black, white, Asian, etc. is also "incurable" - just like a child predator. I don't know of any issue where child predators are petitioning for the right to adopt/raise families, though.

I don't know how old you are, but I can remember a time when the same could be said about homosexuals Paedophiles are there..they are probably plotting, and building upon the perpetual decline in morals and attitudes which occur every day.
Are you not amazed at the continuing dereliction of Society? Perhaps we should all abandon wearing clothes..and then the truth would be there for all to see. Clothes hide a multitude of sins And also conjure up visions of something that really isn't real, or there, at all. The imagination is a dangerous thing, and modern Society seems to delight more and more in deluding our imaginations to accept something that really doesn't exist. And all too often 'we' buy it, only to be disappointed when the reality is discovered. Silicone implants, make-up, false eyelashes.. hair dye

There are also straight pedophiles. I don't equate being straight with being a child predator any more than I equate being gay with being a child predator.

Should child predators be allowed to exist ?
A question for all in this discussion.

quote Originally posted by Voytek: Yes, and many of them have been sexually abused as children. Everyone who thinks that every gay person is born this way and there is no way to change it should consciously do some research and you will find to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence out there that there are many causes for one to become homosexual, none the least of which is abuse but choice is also there. If there is predisposition for a child to lean both ways, it is the nurture that will determine which way they will end up. Read about it, check it out, then talk - the proof is out there but it is being suppressed. Somebody mentioned Hollywood and how they have destroyed the sanctity of marriage. They have done the same to promote the alternate lifestyle. Like it or not, it IS a self-destructive lifestyle. Self-destructive meaning that if we were using absolutes, eventually everyone would be gay and the population would die off. AGAIN, before you jump on me, IN THEORY if this was a NORMAL life style, it COULD, POTENTIALLY lead to the self destruction of societies. The lifestyle is counter to people's natural propensity for self-preservation. Someone else asked the question that if a straight couple wants to raise their child to be straight, would a gay couple want to raise a gay child? I don't know, but it certainly kills procreation if we take that route, doesn't it? For the freaks that argue that the earth is over-populated, Canada, EU and a few other places in the world have a negative birth rate. Lastly, to answer the original question, no, they should NOT be able to adopt. Every child needs a father and a mother to become a well rounded individual. Before you try to dispute this, there is plenty of scientific proof of that too. Two mothers isn't going to cut it and neither is two fathers. A single parent is certainly disadvantaged because even with the best intentions they will never be able to be both, a mother and a father but unfortunately this has become the acceptable way of raising children in our society (we go back to divorce, etc.) (with exceptions where a parent dies or some other special circumstances and not taking away anything from the single parents on here that are in those circumstances). Our society's children have plenty of problems with abuse, divorce, poverty, etc. and to throw another curve at them in the form of gay parents is doing those kids a massive disservice. Changing the topic ever so slightly and throwing a question out there: Does anyone believe that (other than choice) homosexuality can be a type of disability? A disability that has been deemed acceptable? Just curious.

I do not consider myself disabled in any way at all. I will have to deal with people like you and other on this forum. I have also heard that same BS over and over again. Oh it is a choice, what the hell do you know. Unless you have a PHD or a MD degree I cannot see your theory holding any water. Now if you feel so generous as to PM me the research that you have been reading, I will go through all of it and also go as far as to bring it to the doctors and medical personnel that I work with and ask there option. I will not rule anything out.

I will wait fir your PM.

He asked a question, not stated a fact.
Referring to Voytek's post, and your reaction to it
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 11-11-2008).]

Wrong,

Gay parents do not raise their children expecting them to be the same. You see, gays believe that we are born this way and that someone's sexuality cannot be taught. Where do come up with crap like this?

quote Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: I seem to think I may reverse my opinion. Kids have a mind of there own. They will decide what they want despite there parents. Gay couples would be given a wake up call if they raised there kid to be excepting of there ways only to have it backfire on them when the kid becomes a teen. I would be willing to bet that this would happen more then not.

quote Sin is only a disobedience to the Ten Commandments ? I knew that you did not read the Bible.

I guess you didn't read my quotes about Exodus. Sin is a disobedience of the comandments, not only of the ten. Who is the one who didn't read the Bible? It is you. The ten commandments aren't the only laws that were handed down. There are others pertaining to how to worship GOD, etc.

Here they are for the uninformed and Cliffw since he doesn't seem to know about them.

quote Exodus Chapter 20 The ten commandments. 20:1. And the Lord spoke all these words: 20:2. I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 20:3. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. 20:4. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. A graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing, etc... All such images, or likenesses, are forbidden by this commandment, as are made to be adored and served; according to that which immediately follows, thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them. That is, all such as are designed for idols or image-gods, or are worshipped with divine honour. But otherwise images, pictures, or representations, even in the house of God, and in the very sanctuary so far from being forbidden, are expressly authorized by the word of God. See Ex. 25.15, and etc.; chap. 38.7; Num. 21.8, 9; 1 Chron. or Paralip. 28.18, 19; 2 Chron. or Paralip. 3.10. 20:5. Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: 20:6. And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments. 20:7. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain. 20:8. Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day. 20:9. Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. 20:10. But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates. 20:11. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it. 20:12. Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayst be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee. 20:13. Thou shalt not kill. 20:14. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 20:15. Thou shalt not steal. 20:16. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 20:17. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house; neither shalt thou desire his wife, nor his servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his. 20:18. And all the people saw the voices and the flames, and the sound of the trumpet, and the mount smoking; and being terrified and struck with fear, they stood afar off, 20:19. Saying to Moses: Speak thou to us, and we will hear: let not the Lord speak to us, lest we die. 20:20. And Moses said to the people: Fear not; for God is come to prove you, and that the dread of him might be in you, and you should not sin. 20:21. And the people stood afar off. But Moses went to the dark cloud wherein God was. 20:22. And the Lord said to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: You have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven. 20:23. You shall not make gods of silver, nor shall you make to yourselves gods of gold. 20:24. You shall make an altar of earth unto me, and you shall offer upon it your holocausts and peace offerings, your sheep and oxen, in every place where the memory of my name shall be: I will come to thee, and will bless thee. 20:25. And if thou make an altar of stone unto me, thou shalt not build it of hewn stones; for if thou lift up a tool upon it, it shall be defiled. 20:26. Thou shalt not go up by steps unto my altar, lest thy nakedness be discovered. Exodus Chapter 21 Laws relating to Justice. 21:1. These are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. 21:2. If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years shall he serve thee; in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. 21:3. With what raiment he came in, with the like let him go out: if having a wife, his wife also shall go out with him. 21:4. But if his master gave him a wife, and she hath borne sons and daughters; the woman and her children shall be her master’s: but he himself shall go out with his raiment. 21:5. And if the servant shall say: I love my master and my wife and children, I will not go out free: 21:6. His master shall bring him to the gods, and he shall be set to the door and the posts, and he shall bore his ear through with an awl: and he shall be his servant for ever. To the gods... Elohim. That is, to the judges, or magistrates, authorized by God. 21:7. If any man sell his daughter to be a servant, she shall not go out as bondwomen are wont to go out. 21:8. If she displease the eyes of her master to whom she was delivered, he shall let her go: but he shall have no power to sell her to a foreign nation, if he despise her. 21:9. But if he have betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 21:10. And if he take another wife for him, he shall provide her a marriage, and raiment, neither shall he refuse the price of her chastity. 21:11. If he do not these three things, she shall go out free without money. 21:12. He that striketh a man with a will to kill him, shall be put to death. 21:13. But he that did not lie in wait for him, but God delivered him into his hands: I will appoint thee a place to which he must flee. 21:14. If a man kill his neighbour on set purpose, and by lying in wait for him: thou shalt take him away from my altar that he may die. 21:15. He that striketh his father or mother, shall be put to death. 21:16. He that shall steal a man, and sell him, being convicted of the guilt, shall be put to death. 21:17. He that curseth his father or mother, shall die the death. 21:18. If men quarrel, and the one strike his neighbour with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed: 21:19. If he rise again and walk abroad upon his staff, he that struck him shall be quit, yet so that he make restitution for his work, and for his expenses upon the physicians. 21:20. He that striketh his bondman, or bondwoman, with a rod, and they die under his hands, shall be guilty of the crime. 21:21. But if the party remain alive a day or two, he shall not be subject to the punishment, because it is his money. 21:22. If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman’s husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award. 21:23. But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life, 21:24. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 21:25. Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. 21:26. If any man strike the eye of his manservant or maidservant, and leave them but one eye, he shall let them go free for the eye which he put out. 21:27. Also if he strike out a tooth of his manservant or maidservant, he shall in like manner make them free. 21:28. If an ox gore a man or a woman, and they die, he shall be stoned: and his flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner of the ox shall be quit. 21:29. But if the ox was wont to push with his horn yesterday, and the day before, and they warned his master, and he did not shut him up, and he shall kill a man or a woman: then the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death. 21:30. And if they set a price upon him, he shall give for his life whatsoever is laid upon him. 21:31. If he have gored a son, or a daughter, he shall fall under the like sentence. 21:32. If he assault a bondman or bondwoman, he shall give thirty sicles of silver to their master, and the ox shall be stoned. 21:33. If a man open a pit, and dig one, and cover it not, and an ox or an ass fall into it, 21:34. The owner of the pit shall pay the price of the beasts: and that which is dead shall be his own. 21:35. If one man’s ox gore another man’s ox, and he die: they shall sell the live ox, and shall divide the price, and the carcass of that which died they shall part between them: 21:36. But if he knew that his ox was wont to push yesterday, and the day before, and his master did not keep him in; he shall pay ox for ox, and shall take the whole carcass. Exodus Chapter 22 The punishment of theft, and other trespasses. The law of lending without usury, of taking pledges of reverences to superiors, and of paying tithes. 22:1. If any man steal an ox or a sheep, and kill or sell it: he shall restore five oxen for one ox, and four sheep for one sheep. 22:2. If a thief be found breaking open a house or undermining it, and be wounded so as to die: he that slew him shall not be guilty of blood. 22:3. But if he did this when the sun is risen, he hath committed murder, and he shall die. If he have not wherewith to make restitution for the theft, he shall be sold. 22:4. If that which he stole be found with him, alive, either ox, or ass, or sheep: he shall restore double. 22:5. If any man hurt a field or a vineyard, and put in his beast to feed upon that which is other men’s: he shall restore the best of whatsoever he hath in his own field, or in his vineyard, according to the estimation of the damage. 22:6. If a fire breaking out light upon thorns, and catch stacks of corn, or corn standing in the fields, he that kindled the fire shall make good the loss. 22:7. If a man deliver money, or any vessel unto his friend to keep, and they be stolen away from him that received them: if the thief be found, he shall restore double: 22:8. If the thief be not known, the master of the house shall be brought to the gods, and shall swear that he did not lay his hand upon his neighbour’s goods, 22:9. To do any fraud, either in ox, or in ass, or sheep, or raiment, or any thing that may bring damage: the cause of both parties shall come to the gods: and if they give judgment, he shall restore double to his neighbour. 22:10. If a man deliver ass, ox, sheep, or any beast, to his neighbour’s custody, and it die, or be hurt, or be taken by enemies, and no man saw it: 22:11. There shall be an oath between them, that he did not put forth his hand to his neighbour’s goods: and the owner shall accept of the oath, and he shall not be compelled to make restitution. 22:12. But if it were taken away by stealth, he shall make the loss good to the owner. 22:13. If it were eaten by a beast, let him bring to him that which was slain, and he shall not make restitution. 22:14. If a man borrow of his neighbour any of these things, and it be hurt or die, the owner not being present, he shall be obliged to make restitution. 22:15. But if the owner be present, he shall not make restitution, especially if it were hired, and came for the hire of his work. 22:16. If a man seduce a virgin not yet espoused, and lie with her: he shall endow her, and have her to wife. 22:17. If the maid’s father will not give her to him, he shall give money according to the dowry, which virgins are wont to receive. 22:18. Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live. 22:19. Whosoever copulateth with a beast; shall be put to death. 22:20. He that sacrificeth to gods, shall be put to death, save only to the Lord. 22:21. Thou shalt not molest a stranger, nor afflict him: for yourselves also were strangers in the land of Egypt. 22:22. You shall not hurt a widow or an orphan. 22:23. If you hurt them, they will cry out to me, and I will hear their cry: 22:24. And my rage shall be enkindled, and I will strike you with the sword, and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless. 22:25. If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor, that dwelleth with thee, thou shalt not be hard upon them as an extortioner, nor oppress them with usuries. 22:26. If thou take of thy neighbour a garment in pledge, thou shalt give it him again before sunset. 22:27. For that same is the only thing, wherewith he is covered, the clothing of his body, neither hath he any other to sleep in: if he cry to me, I will hear him, because I am compassionate. 22:28. Thou shalt not speak ill of the gods, and the prince of thy people thou shalt not curse. 22:29. Thou shalt not delay to pay thy tithes and thy firstfruits: thou shalt give the firstborn of thy sons to me. 22:30. Thou shalt do the same with the firstborn of thy oxen also and sheep: seven days let it be with its dam: the eighth day thou shalt give it to me. 22:31. You shall be holy men to me: the flesh that beasts have tasted of before, you shall not eat, but shall cast it to the dogs. Exodus Chapter 23 Laws for judges; the rest of the seventh year, and day: three principal feasts to be solemnized every year; the promise of an angel, to conduct and protect them: idols are to be destroyed. 23:1. Thou shalt not receive the voice of a lie: neither shalt thou join thy hand to bear false witness for a wicked person. 23:2. Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou yield in judgment, to the opinion of the most part, to stray from the truth. 23:3. Neither shalt thou favour a poor man in judgment. 23:4. If thou meet thy enemy’s ox or ass going astray, bring it back to him. 23:5. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lie underneath his burden, thou shalt not pass by, but shalt lift him up with him. 23:6. Thou shalt not go aside in the poor man’s judgment. 23:7. Thou shalt fly Iying. The innocent and just person thou shalt not put to death: because I abhor the wicked. 23:8. Neither shalt thou take bribes, which even blind the wise, and pervert the words of the just. 23:9. Thou shalt not molest a stranger, for you know the hearts of strangers: for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt. 23:10. Six years thou shalt sow thy ground, and shalt gather the corn thereof. 23:11. But the seventh year thou shalt let it alone, and suffer it to rest, that the poor of thy people may eat, and whatsoever shall be left, let the beasts of the field eat it: so shalt thou do with thy vineyard and thy oliveyard. 23:12. Six days thou shalt work: the seventh day thou shalt cease, that thy ox and thy ass may rest: and the son of thy handmaid and the stranger may be refreshed. 23:13. Keep all things that I have said to you. And by the name of strange gods you shall not swear, neither shall it be heard out of your mouth. 23:14. Three times every year you shall celebrate feasts to me. 23:15. Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread. Seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month of new corn, when thou didst come forth out of Egypt: thou shalt not appear empty before me. 23:16. And the feast of the harvest of the firstfruits of thy work, whatsoever thou hast sown in the field. The feast also in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in all thy corn out of the field. 23:17. Thrice a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God. 23:18. Thou shalt not sacrifice the blood of my victim upon leaven, neither shall the fat of my solemnity remain until the morning. 23:19. Thou shalt carry the first-fruits of the corn of thy ground to the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not boil a kid in the milk of his dam. 23:20. Behold I will send my angel, who shall go before thee, and keep thee in thy journey, and bring thee into the place that I have prepared. 23:21. Take notice of him, and hear his voice, and do not think him one to be contemned: for he will not forgive when thou hast sinned, and my name is in him. 23:22. But if thou wilt hear hi voice, and do all that I speak, I will be an enemy to thy enemies, and will afflict them that afflict thee. 23:23. And my angel shall go before thee, and shall bring thee in unto the Amorrhite, and the Hethite, and the Pherexite, and the Chanaanite, and the Hevite, and the Jebuzite, whom I will destroy. 23:24. Thou shalt not adore their gods, nor serve them. Thou shalt not do their works, but shalt destroy them, and break their statues. 23:25. And you shall serve the Lord your God, that I may bless your bread and your waters, and may take away sickness from the midst of thee. 23:26. There shall not be one fruitless nor barren in thy land: I will fill the number of thy days. 23:27. I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come: and will turn the backs of all thy enemies before thee: 23:28. Sending out hornets before, that shall drive away the Hevite, and the Chanaanite, and the Hethite, before thou come in. 23:29. I will not cast them out from thy face in one year; lest the land be brought into a wilderness, and the beasts multiply against thee. 23:30. By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, till thou be increased, and dost possess the land. 23:31. And I will set thy bounds from the Red Sea to the sea of the Palestines, and from the desert to the river: I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hands, and will drive them out from before you. 23:32. Thou shalt not enter into league with them, nor with their gods. 23:33. Let them not dwell in thy land, lest perhaps they make thee sin against me, if thou serve their gods; which, undoubtedly, will be a scandal to thee

quote Originally posted by aconesa: Wrong, Gay parents do not raise their children expecting them to be the same. You see, gays believe that we are born this way and that someone's sexuality cannot be taught. Where do come up with crap like this?

No. Gays CHOOSE to believe they are born that way And which 'gay' parents are you referring to? I haven't heard of ANY 'gay' parents...they do not exist. One might be a 'gay' parent with a 'gay' partner, but two 'gays' cannot be parents.Physically impossible.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Here they are for the uninformed and Cliffw since he doesn't seem to know about them.

Blah, blah, blah, .
Why is it called the Bible, and not Exodus ?

So you say, give my proof that we choose to be this way. I would never choose to put up with crap like this.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: No. Gays CHOOSE to believe they are born that way And which 'gay' parents are you referring to? I haven't heard of ANY 'gay' parents...they do not exist. One might be a 'gay' parent with a 'gay' partner, but two 'gays' cannot be parents.Physically impossible.

[This message has been edited by aconesa (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: ..................

And not nearly all the laws God handed down. Those are just the ones handed down specifically to the Israelites as they made their way from Egyptian slavery.

May I ask which denomination you are affiliated with Avengador1?

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Why is it called the Bible, and not Exodus ?

It's actually called the Book of Exodus and is part of the first five books that make up the Bible. They were written by Moses, but since you read the Bible, you already knew that, or did you?
You certainly appear to not have done so, so blah, blah, blah, right back at you hypocrite. Read the good book and then you can talk. As for now, you are pulling stuff out of your ass, when it comes to quoting the Bible and it shows.

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/

Above is the website that this article was posted back in 2005. It does not appear to be a respectable media source.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: And the one about two lesbians who adopoted a boy, and then arranged for a sex change operation for the boy, and their unbelievably selfish reasons for doing it is sick beyond belief. This link is as a result of a Google search, and can't say I must believe everything in it...but I wouldn't have googled it in the first place, if I didn't have concerns about the subject

Maryjane, I'm Roman Catholic, if you must know. It is our job to interpret the teachings of the Bible, not only the church's, and to pass the good word on.
God doesn't really want blind sheeple, as they don't really know why they believe, they just do it blindly and hope the will get their reward. Those who can use their head, can truly believe and know how to achieve salvation. Our religion isn't as complicated as some make it out to be. It has the simple message of love thy neighbor, the belief in our saviour, and forgiveness of our sins and of others.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by aconesa: http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/ Above is the website that this article was posted back in 2005. It does not appear to be a respectable media source.

sure it is. They broke the following story which is being reported on all the major news channels right now. Just now passing over my house, and I was outside looking up her skirt a few minutes ago as she walked by.

quote Originally posted by aconesa: So you say, give my proof that we choose to be this way. I would never choose to put up with crap like this.

I didn't resort to swearing, which is totally un-neccessary, when addressing you. Why do you choose to be so aggressive? And why do you feel you have a right to be so vehement, and I do not?. You are homosexual. I think you chose to be that way. I don't presume to define it as a conscious, or sub-conscious decision. But I believe it was a choice, none the less.You choose to say it isn't a choice. If you were abandoned on a desert island at birth, and managed to survive alone to adulthood in total isolation from other Humans, how would you know you were homosexual? You wouldn't. and therefore, IMHO,you are not born gay, you are influenced by events and people in your childhood and adolescence. The same as murderers, rapists and every other form of deviant that exists in this World. You can't be a murderer if there is nobody to murder.You can't molest children if there are no children to molest. You can't be homosexual if there is nobody to indulge in homosexuality with. But I am willing to bet that 'nature' would teach you how to relieve natural sexual tension when it occured.
Sadly, I have found in my fairly long life,that people who can't provide an answer, end up swearing or getting more aggressive. You are following that pattern every time you reply to anyone who dares to say you are wrong. I was born that way..or did I learn that from my life's experience? I believe the latter..you would believe the former.And if that is so, don't accuse me of talking 'crap'. because by that definition, you are too
And just remember one thing show a bit of respect to normal, straight people. After all, you have to rely on us to provide you with your 'partners' in life, even if we probably wouldn't wish to....because you can't produce them yourselves

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Maryjane, I'm Roman Catholic, if you must know. It is our job to interpret the teachings of the Bible, not only the church's, and to pass the good word on. God doesn't really want blind sheeple, as they don't really know why they believe, they just do it blindly and hope the will get their reward. Those who can use their head, can truly believe and know how to achieve salvation. Our religion isn't as complicated as some make it out to be. It has the simple message of love thy neighbor, the belief in our saviour, and forgiveness of our sins and of others.

Thank you. I thought I had seen you say so in another thread, but I couldn't remember. The Catholic Church has always had a very different outlook/opinion on these things than most Protestant organizations do, and I think it has led to a lot of the problems that have surfaced over the years in courtrooms across the country. I don't know if the rest of the Catholic world has had the problems we have seen in this nation or not, but I am guessing they have had at least to some extent, and I will be the 1st to admit it certainly isn't isolated to just the Catholic priests.

Nick read this.
http://seedmagazine.com/new...y_animal_kingdom.php

quote Originally posted by fierofetish:

If the word crap upset you, then I am sorry for using it. My aggression comes from the reading through this thread that it is a choice. You can very well believe that. But clinical studies have proven that theory does not hold water.

http://www.eurekalert.org/p...03/ohs-bbh030804.php

Also, let us clear something up, can I if I would choose to marry a women and have a family do it, yes I could. I am fairly attractive, make decent money and live in good neighborhood. The question I ask myself, "would I be happy?" I would not, I am sure if that.

Thanks. Your apology is accepted with the same good grace in which you offered it. Thanks.
It is a very simple belief that I hold, and I have tried to explain it. You also have a very simple belief, and you have tried to explain that too. I just find the scenario of children involved in homosexual relationships wrong, and believe it shouldn't happen. We will never ever change each others beliefs, and I guess we don't expect to. I will respect your belief, and you should respect mine equally.
Thanks for your reply, and we can leave it as friends..I hope
Nick

I agree to disagree,,, :-)

You are a gentlemen, thank you.

Abelardo

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Thanks. Your apology is accepted with the same good grace in which you offered it. Thanks. It is a very simple belief that I hold, and I have tried to explain it. You also have a very simple belief, and you have tried to explain that too. I just find the scenario of children involved in homosexual relationships wrong, and believe it shouldn't happen. We will never ever change each others beliefs, and I guess we don't expect to. I will respect your belief, and you should respect mine equally. Thanks for your reply, and we can leave it as friends..I hope Nick

[This message has been edited by aconesa (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Think what you wish. You profess to be......uh...you said religious. Did you mean Christian ? You name dropped the word Reverend. The Word of God is inspired by God. It is written by man. Under the guidance of the Holy Ghost. Are you suggesting that the Holy Ghost would let man make a mistake as important as that...or any mistake for that matter ?

Yes, I am a Christian. God gave man free will.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: C'mon, I know that you are smarter than that. You are actually saying that a child predator should be allowed to exist ?

When did I ever say that? I asked when someone "chose" to be straight and you said being a child predator was also incurable.
Should a pedophile be allowed to "exist?" Well, that's another discussion and really has nothing to do with homosexual couples adopting families does it?

Stay on topic. Gay is NOT the same thing as a pedophile.

Since you completely missed the point of my asking that question, I'll spell it out. Some people believe gays "choose" to be gay - that their sexuality is a lifestyle choice. If that's true, then being straight would also be a "lifestyle choice." So, at what point in someone's life do they choose to be gay or straight? Could you "choose" to be gay (assuming you're straight)? I'm not saying choose to have gay sex, I'm saying choose to be sexually and romantically interested in members of the same sex. The point is, if sexuality isn't a choice - if you're born either gay or straight - then it isn't a lifestyle choice and we're talking about civil rights.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: It was unheard of that gay couples were wanting to [adopt children]...till now.

Unheard of to you. I'm quite certain there have been gay couples wanting to raise children before 2008.

quote Originally posted by aconesa: I agree to disagree,,, :-) You are a gentlemen, thank you. Abelardo

You have a PM
Nick

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Unheard of to you. I'm quite certain there have been gay couples wanting to raise children before 2008.

As a matter of fact, I know a lesbian couple that adopted a little girl about 10 years ago, if not longer. That little girl could not ask for better parents than the ones that she has. They absolutely adore her.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: It's actually called the Book of Exodus and is part of the first five books that make up the Bible. They were written by Moses, but since you read the Bible, you already knew that, or did you? You certainly appear to not have done so, so blah, blah, blah, right back at you hypocrite. Read the good book and then you can talk. As for now, you are pulling stuff out of your ass, when it comes to quoting the Bible and it shows.

And you also know, because you read the Bible, that the Pentateuch are the books of the law given to the people is Israel. Protestant Christian religion is based more on the New Testament.

quote Originally posted by Jaygee79: Yes, I am a Christian. God gave man free will.

Yes, he did--doesn't mean man made good choices tho.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: You have a PM Nick

Right back to you

:-)

quote Originally posted by aconesa: Also, let us clear something up, can I if I would choose to marry a women and have a family do it, yes I could. I am fairly attractive, make decent money and live in good neighborhood. The question I ask myself, "would I be happy?" I would not, I am sure if that.

I will relate a true event--with fake names. I have a cousin who was raised in a very small northeast Texas town. Very naive, she probably had never been outside Texas before she married a guy I will call 'Joe'. They have 2 sons over about a 4 year period, One named Joe Jr and the other billybob--don'tmatterwhathisnameisanyway. Well, about 15 years later, JoeJr answers the phone at home. The male voice on the other end of the phone says "Joe?". Of course the young lad (JoeJr) says "yeah, this is Joe." Male voice on the other end of the phone begins to describe in detail what he intends to do to 'Joe darling' "tomorrow night when they make their weekly get together". The boy starts screaming, the father Joe comes running in, and grabs the phone, to find that his lover has just outed him by mistake to his 15 year old son. Divorce quickly follows, after Joe Sr admits to my cousin that he has always been gay, always will be, and just wanted to have kids, so he pulls this sham on my cousin--a sham he managed to conceal from her for 15 years. (Hey, I said she was naive)

Funny thing was, after all this was over, my cousin asks my immediate family one day: "Did ya'll all know? I never suspected a thing"
Well duh! Yeah--we were pretty sure--kinda hard to miss the way he talked and acted, but not any of our business, since they all seemed happy enough before the big blow up.

Now, she's a drug addict, on some kind of anti-depressants & sleeping pills, the 2 boys are now adults, both big time drug abusers/dealers, working in a titty bar as bar tenders about 60 miles from here, and (last I heard) Joe Sr took off to Dallas/Fort Worth to resume the lifestyle he had before his experiment in the straight world. So yep, I understand you're saying you truly would not be happy doing something you didn't feel would be right for you in your heart. Joe screwed up 3-4 lives with his sojurn into a world he shouldn't have entered.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-12-2008).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Yes, he did--doesn't mean man made good choices tho.

Now there's a point that I finally agree with you on.

Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination”

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[This message has been edited by 88_Fiero_2M4 (edited 11-12-2008).]

heres my opinion on the whole thing (by any means i am not gay i have a girlfriend and am as straight as a drag race strip)

but i think they should be able to do what they want they should be able to be happy or as misrable as any other married couple adoption as long as they raise the child right who cares and as far as pda's and stuff like that that might be going a lil far in public but behind closed doors who cares it not affecting our lives.