A friend of mine from work is currently out on maternity leave. She had her baby just a few weeks ago. Before she left, she told me that she hopes her daughter grows up to be a lesbian. When I laughed and asked her why, she said because every gay person she has ever met has been more accepting and open minded than most of the straight people she knows.

Not posting this to add to the fire. This post made me remember it and I thought it was interesting and a bit funny. And, in many cases, true.


PS - she is straight and married

[This message has been edited by Jaygee79 (edited 11-10-2008).]

geeez - y'all are all over the place
Topic: Should Homosexual Couples be allowed to adopt/raise families?
marriage is the another topic.

why is it OK for a single mom - but not a gay couple?

well, actually now that I think about it - a single mom cant adopt either, can she?

Just another tidbit from teh guidebook divorce is not allowed, and niether is sex before marriage. The actual vows mean something. This results in single moms only happening when the man dies.

See how far we are from this?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Just another tidbit from teh guidebook divorce is not allowed, and niether is sex before marriage. The actual vows mean something. This results in single moms only happening when the man dies. See how far we are from this?

with ya there - yes - endless social problems could be solved with making sex illegal prior to marriage.

tho - again - I do believe marriage existed before the the guidebook. and also in places which still dont have a guidebook.

and - divorce & single moms DO exist - and are 100% legal & legitimate. I would also say that the "divorce not allowed" bit is a bit of fiction added by the men who editted gods words to suit their will. but - I agree vows should carry weight.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Just another tidbit from teh guidebook divorce is not allowed, and niether is sex before marriage. The actual vows mean something. This results in single moms only happening when the man dies. See how far we are from this?

We can thank Hollywood for that. If anyone is in danger of ruining the sanctity of marriage, it isn't the gays. It's the people in Hollywood, with their 2-minute marriages and their lists of ex's.

Let me throw a different idea in to the mix.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: So....homosexuals never have failed relationships ?

quote Originally posted by aconesa: Yes, we do. just as much as everyone else.

Ok, what happens then ? A mother is assumed to be the better parent automatically. Where is the equality in that ?
A real parent does never not love their child.
Now, I realize that an accepted adoption parental relationship can also fail, but, if any adoption relationship fails, we are sending a lifelong message to a child. Should we confuse it more by adding a gay relationship into it ? Yes, it is confusing.
The reason a mother overwhelmingly wins custody of a child is because, for some reason, it is in the best interest of the child. A fit father, even if he is a better parent, has hoops to jump through. So small that he can not fit through them. Again, where is the equality in that?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Let me throw a different idea in to the mix. Ok, what happens then ? A mother is assumed to be the better parent automatically. Where is the equality in that ? A real parent does never not love their child. Now, I realize that an accepted adoption parental relationship can also fail, but, if any adoption relationship fails, we are sending a lifelong message to a child. Should we confuse it more by adding a gay relationship into it ? Yes, it is confusing. The reason a mother overwhelmingly wins custody of a child is because, for some reason, it is in the best interest of the child. A fit father, even if he is a better parent, has hoops to jump through. So small that he can not fit through them. Again, where is the equality in that?

Women as a primary parent is not what happens in court anymore. The one more able to take care of the child is considered the best parent nowadays. Mostly the men don't want the responsiblity of taking care of the child most of the time. It may not be true down here in the south, but thats the way the yankees handle things.

Jane

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Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality

quote Originally posted by calamityjane: Women as a primary parent is not what happens in court anymore. The one more able to take care of the child is considered the best parent nowadays. Mostly the men don't want the responsiblity of taking care of the child most of the time. It may not be true down here in the south, but thats the way the yankees handle things.

Yes, that is the way it is in Oz, .
Jane, I speak from many thousands of dollars of effort. Failed.....unsuccessful effort.
I have my daughter now (19 years old).
More able to take care of a child. Father or mother ? Whole different four or five page thread, .
A kiss for your reply, .

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: This thread is for the adopting & raising of children. if a single mom is allowed - marriage is irrelevant. and, I find it really mean spirited to deny a child a home over a child farm because of personal opinion.

A Single mom would never be alloud to adopt a child. we are starting to compare apples to oranges here. A single mom who is the natural mother of the child is a far better choice for her own child.

We are talking about what is moral. I cant see how Being gay is moral. Nor can I see how it should be alloud. A man cant have a child with a man. That is a natural selection. It isnt just about religon. I cant see how Being Gay can be seen right
any way you look at it. They are Physicly incompatable. This is by design by nature. If it were right then nature would have made a way. I dont really care what medical science can or will do That is just man interfering with what he shouldnt be, Thats why its called Natural selection.
If They have problems identifiying what nature has made them then it is there fault.
Man can only reproduce with a Woman, this is a Fact. It is as certian as gravity. So not only is it a Law in Christianity it is law in Nature as well.
I frankly dont care if they wish to be Gay that is a choice they make. I think that choice should not include Children.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: well, actually now that I think about it - a single mom cant adopt either, can she?

Actually single women can adopt children. I have met a few in the past 10 years. All of them have been very successful women with great jobs, a stable extended family and the resources to provide a happy and stable family atmosphere for the child to grow up in. If I remember correctly most of them live in up scale neighborhoods and were sending their kids to private schools.

[This message has been edited by aconesa (edited 11-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: I frankly dont care if they wish to be Gay that is a choice they make.

When did you choose to be straight?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Yes, that is the way it is in Oz, . Jane, I speak from many thousands of dollars of effort. Failed.....unsuccessful effort. I have my daughter now (19 years old). More able to take care of a child. Father or mother ? Whole different four or five page thread, . A kiss for your reply, .

I'm sorry to hear that. There truly are those changing the law, slow though it may be. Over the last 8 years or so Judges have slowly begun to change their thinking concerning this issue. Maybe because more women are taking the career path, thus leaving husbands with more responsibility in the home. I'm sorry that this has come too late to help you. We women did try to gain respect in the career world, Men were just too stubborn to let us have careers too. We've come a long way baby. I'm glad that you have a chance to know your daughter.

Jane

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Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality

quote Originally posted by vinny: I'm glad I wasn't stepping on toes with what I said. This is a very critical forum and it's hard to discuss matters of opinion without getting the red bar treatment (as seen by so many others ratings). I'm not a politition and I don't follow politics much as I should. I'm not a HOLY ROLLER either. This is where I stand. I am a saved Christian man, and sinner If its in the Bible I believe even if I don't understand. I try to treat people fair even if I know they are wrong. I hate no person. Not even democrates or homosexuals or ...............anyone. I drink beer and wine, I speed and talk dirty, I get mad......................sinner Homosexuality is wrong and should not be rewarded and that is the end. Too adopt is a reward and to marry is also. If you don't believe me, read the Bible. In GOD we trust, Vinny

I dont know if this has already been challenged or not but, can you tell me where in the bible it says being homosexual is wrong? I have been a christian my whole life and if it says anything like that anywhere in the bible it would be in the old testament, which was mostly written law at the time, and there were a lot of things banned that were simply because of health issues, an example is masturbation or touching a woman while she is menstruating. so in other words you can see it as guidelines if you want, but some of it is like an outdated law book from an ancient culture.

Virtually all of God's laws came from the Old Testament. Not the least, being the Ten Commandments. Jesus did not come to change God's Old Testament laws or the words of the prophets, he came to fulfill them. The modern day practice of "Pick & Choose" religion is what has led to so many offshoots of the major religious denominations. People tend to choose which laws they wish to follow, spurning those that don't fit their life, claiming some of God's laws are "old fashioned" "outdated" "No longer apply in a modern world" "this one isn't really a sin" "it'll be ok" etc. A road to ruin is what it is, but to be honest, we all do it to some extent. For instance, we all tell lies to some extent. We all covet to some extent. The difference is most of us do so only on a rare occasion, and accept that it is a sin, admit that it is a sin, and ask forgiveness for these transgressions on a daily basis. For instance, I personally have killed. I am in violation of one of God's Ten Commandments. But I freely admit to all and to God that I have sinned in this fashion and have prayed for forgiveness--not claimed it was not a sin to begin with. To do anything else would be a violation of another of God's Ten Commandments.

Leviticus 18:6 reads: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female. It is an abomination." A similar verse occurs two chapters later, in

Leviticus 20:13: "A man who sleeps with another man is an abomination and should be executed."

Deuteronomy 22:5: "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."

These are among the passages some would choose to throw out--claiming they are outdated--or otherwise do not apply, perhaps because they are from the Old Testament. Shall we also pick and choose which of the Ten Commandments we wish to acknowledge as a sin and which no longer applies?
That seems to be the case.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by chucks85fastback: ...... can you tell me where in the bible it says being homosexual is wrong? ....if it says anything like that anywhere in the bible it would be in the old testament.....

All New Testament.

Romans 1:26-27 (New International Version)
26)Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27)In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9)Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10)nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
9)We also know that law[a] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10)for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

quote Originally posted by chucks85fastback: I dont know if this has already been challenged or not but, can you tell me where in the bible it says being homosexual is wrong? I have been a christian my whole life and if it says anything like that anywhere in the bible it would be in the old testament, which was mostly written law at the time, and there were a lot of things banned that were simply because of health issues, an example is masturbation or touching a woman while she is menstruating. so in other words you can see it as guidelines if you want, but some of it is like an outdated law book from an ancient culture.

I see Cliff posted some too.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.
Leviticus 18:22

Yes they are old testament, do you only like the new?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Virtually all of God's laws came from the Old Testament. Not the least, being the Ten Commandments. Jesus did not come to change God's Old Testament laws or the words of the prophets, he came to fulfill them. The modern day practice of "Pick & Choose" religion is what has led to so many offshoots of the major religious denominations. People tend to choose which laws they wish to follow, spurning those that don't fit their life, claiming some of God's laws are "old fashioned" "outdated" "No longer apply in a modern world" "this one isn't really a sin" "it'll be ok" etc. A road to ruin is what it is, but to be honest, we all do it to some extent. For instance, we all tell lies to some extent. We all covet to some extent. The difference is most of us do so only on a rare occasion, and accept that it is a sin, admit that it is a sin, and ask forgiveness for these transgressions on a daily basis. For instance, I personally have killed. I am in violation of one of God's Ten Commandments. But I freely admit to all and to God that I have sinned in this fashion and have prayed for forgiveness--not claimed it was not a sin to begin with. To do anything else would be a violation of another of God's Ten Commandments. Leviticus 18:6 reads: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female. It is an abomination." A similar verse occurs two chapters later, in Leviticus 20:13: "A man who sleeps with another man is an abomination and should be executed." Deuteronomy 22:5: "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God." These are among the passages some would choose to throw out--claiming they are outdated--or otherwise do not apply, perhaps because they are from the Old Testament. Shall we also pick and choose which of the Ten Commandments we wish to acknowledge as a sin and which no longer applies? That seems to be the case.

so, since you actually broke a commandment, you should not be allowed to adopt a child?
being gay breaks no commandment, nor is a deadly sin. but - it seems they are to be executed, eh? shall we stone them? or just set them on fire?
and every woman who's played Peter Pan...oh my...they are doomed, eh?
I really think this is one of them passages which was editted to suit the needs of the current leaders.
God may have wrote it originally, but men changed it to suit their needs. why would God care about the clothes? AT ALL? God made us WITHOUT CLOTHES. man made clothes. man decided what was womens wear and what was mens wear.
and - next - there is MUCH assumption going on here. I do beleive the entire US Army - men sleep with men. its called bunking. yes - I know - being silly. translation issues. why say it like that? it wasnt written in english - why not translate it properly? and clearly? because they dont know.

when you actually get to see & read the actual word of god - you will see how you have been decieved by the actions of men throughout history.

Romans 1:18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;

31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, since you actually broke a commandment, you should not be allowed to adopt a child? being gay breaks no commandment, nor is a deadly sin. but - it seems they are to be executed, eh? shall we stone them? or just set them on fire? and every woman who's played Peter Pan...oh my...they are doomed, eh? I really think this is one of them passages which was editted to suit the needs of the current leaders. God may have wrote it originally, but men changed it to suit their needs. why would God care about the clothes? AT ALL? God made us WITHOUT CLOTHES. man made clothes. man decided what was womens wear and what was mens wear. and - next - there is MUCH assumption going on here. I do beleive the entire US Army - men sleep with men. its called bunking. yes - I know - being silly. translation issues. why say it like that? it wasnt written in english - why not translate it properly? and clearly? because they dont know. when you actually get to see & read the actual word of god - you will see how you have been decieved by the actions of men throughout history.

Or--you will.
My post was in reference to chucks85fastback's question. Probably many of God's laws have been altered by man to suit man's wants. I won't argue with that, in fact hate that it has happened. It will continue to do so as we move further and further away from the Word of God, and closer to worshipping the word of man.
If you want to spend the time to do so, you can find the original text in Hebrew, but I doubt it will change your mind much. You will only believe it when standing in front of God himself, which of course will be a bit late I suspect.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Romans 1:18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

nice - but not written by god, was it? this is a gospel, isnt it?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: When did you choose to be straight?

I have chosen neither, I have not had sex with anyone. I have devoted myself to God By choice I have denied myself any pleasure of he flesh. But if I were to marry I would Choose a woman because I was born a Man Its a no brainer
If one were born to do a woman then they would have been born a man and likewise. For the most part I see gays as the ones who kept getting rejected so they decided to go the other way. If you see the most of them are ugly, fat and have self//esteam problems.
I personally dont think that they should be raising kids just as I think that single people should not be allowed to adopt ether. However single parents do raise kids but I think that should be only there own kids.
Sexual preference is Choice to say otherwise is typical of most people not wanting to except responsibility for there actions. I chose Not to when I was 11 years old when I at my Church signed a promise that I would not have sex until I was married.
I feel that God has chosen that Marriage is not for me and my life is to follow a different path. I will be 31 this year and I have yet to break that promise.
If one is gay I can bet that there is a mental block that they have yet to discover and they really did chose it at one time in there life. If they search themselves they will discover the real truth about it. However like an alcholic they have to figure out by themselves that
they have a problem. only then can they choose to do something about it. Of course most of them would rather live in denial, Just like an Alcholic has become comfortable with what they are doing.

I won't get into a theological argument--your mind is made up--as is mine. Kinda like arguing politics. I know your views-you know mine--best to leave it like that.
Have a good day Pyrthian.

quote Originally posted by aconesa: I really hope you do not believe that gays and lesbians wish to be this way. If I had an option to fit it with the majority and not be teased and pick on, I would absolutely not be gay. But the fact of the matter is that I was born this way. It is not a wish or phase. Hell, if it is a phase, it has lasted since I was 9. I am now 42.

What happined to you when you were 9 that made you make that choice. Were you molested by someone? did you have some event with someone that maby you dont remember. I went thru Emotional and physical abuse when I was a kid. You know I dont remember some of it as my mind has blocked some if it because it was too painful. I would be willing to bet that some event that you dont remember or have blocked out is what drove you to it At that age we are very vunerable as we are at that time in our lives establishing our true identiy.
Being gay was at that time not excepted as it is now and I can understand why one would repress some of there memorys about it.
The situation that I was put thru nearly drove me to homicide as my parents did some unspeakable things to me. Some of those things drove me to choosing not to marrie or to have sex at all. This however was a choice in my life I was 8 years old when all this happend to me.
It is hard for me to talk about because it is a wound that goes deep to my heart. It is a Scar that will never go away but I have chosen to face it.
My situation is like that kid that they are talking about on the news lately that he is only 8 and they are debating on charging him as an adult for his crime. However I think that they should dig deeper into why he did what he did.
Before his mind repressess those memorys.
I bet that alot of the blame can be put on his parents. but This is a reason that I think that everything is a choice. it can all be traced to some event to your life that you may not remember.

quote Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: If you see the most of them are ugly, fat and have self//esteam problems.

Sir,
here you are dead wrong. Most of the gay men that I have met in my 42 years, are well educated, and good citizens. Mostly all do some sort of charity work either with a local church(yes church) or a civil group in their community. Those of us (gays) that have come to terms with our sexuality do not have any issues with self esteem anymore. Most of the crap comes from the abuse that most of us have to put up with during our early years of life just because we are not the same. Having to put up with bigots all my life I can comment that children and most of their parents are cruel not just to gays but also to anyone that is different and that does not fit their idea of what a person should be.

And if you are asking yourself if I am over weight, unattractive, and have self esteem issues, I encourage you ask anyone in the Garden State Fiero Club what they think of me and my partner. I am confident that we will be found to be well rounded, fair minded human beings that care about all our friends.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I won't get into a theological argument--your mind is made up--as is mine. Kinda like arguing politics. I know your views-you know mine--best to leave it like that. Have a good day Pyrthian.

yup. funny how this all grows out of some folk who just wanna raise a kid. that is a 100% natural instinct for any animal. heck - even monkeys & apes will voulanteer to raise a kid. we've all probably seen the videos on cats raising bunnies.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, since you actually broke a commandment, you should not be allowed to adopt a child? being gay breaks no commandment, nor is a deadly sin. but - it seems they are to be executed, eh? shall we stone them? or just set them on fire? and every woman who's played Peter Pan...oh my...they are doomed, eh? I really think this is one of them passages which was editted to suit the needs of the current leaders. God may have wrote it originally, but men changed it to suit their needs. why would God care about the clothes? AT ALL? God made us WITHOUT CLOTHES. man made clothes. man decided what was womens wear and what was mens wear. and - next - there is MUCH assumption going on here. I do beleive the entire US Army - men sleep with men. its called bunking. yes - I know - being silly. translation issues. why say it like that? it wasnt written in english - why not translate it properly? and clearly? because they dont know. when you actually get to see & read the actual word of god - you will see how you have been decieved by the actions of men throughout history.

C'mon at least be serious you may be confusing someone

you argued my point better than i did Pyrthian

It seems that some people are condemning gays because they consider being gay a sin. It is not out place to condemn anyone because they have sinned, that is up to God, as he is the ultimate judge of everyone.
Those condemning others don't even seem to know what a sin really is. Here is a quick definition. Sin is disobedience to God's commandments, either by doing what is forbidden or failing to do what is required.
The good news is that, no matter how serious the sin, God is always seeking us out and is willing to forgive and forget our sins and give us a fresh start. As long as we live, it is never too late to ask for forgiveness and make a new start, so if God is willing to forgive us, why can we forgive each other, instead of harboring hate? That isn't what Jesus taught us about God. He wants us to love and forgive each other. Remember the Lord's prayer?

quote Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your Kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For the kingdom, the power and the glory are yours. Now and for ever. Amen

Notice it says to forgive us as we forgive those who have sinned against us.
Those who cannot forgive will also not be forgiven by God.
The only sin that is not forgivable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

quote I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin. (NIV, Mark 3:28-29)

Nearly all Christians agree that repentance and forgiveness of others are key elements of forgiveness, and that forgiveness comes from God.
The bottom line is IF YOU CAN'T FORGIVE, YOU ARE NOT BEING A GOOD CHRISTIAN. I suggest you all think about this very carefully and remember your teachings, they weren't about hate, but of love of your others, gay or not.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: Gods word is truth. mans words are twisted for their own purpose. I will stand before God with clear mind & heart. unpolluted. there is no church in the bible, is there? there isnt even a book, is there? that clubhouse & guidebook is a sham - and has doomed many a good person.

What else have you got? Your concience alone isn't enough. Of course god did not hand down a stack of papers in his own handwriting to someone. These are words inspired by god, and words written about him as well as Jesus times on earth..

quote Originally posted by 2.5: C'mon at least be serious you may be confusing someone

causing someone to think about what has been pulled over their eyes is much different that spinning them around with a blindfold.
tho, for awhile - it may feel the same.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: actually, it is.

Maybe yours, but do you trust Charles Manson's conscience?

--

OH you were serious?!
Your post with answers

"nor is a deadly sin." ****-this is not a movie, sins are sins "deadly" or not

"and every woman who's played Peter Pan...oh my...they are doomed, eh?
why would God care about the clothes? AT ALL? God made us WITHOUT CLOTHES. man made clothes. man decided what was womens wear and what was mens wear." *****- that is figurative, "don't be a woman if you are a man" the clothes thing does happen, but something like a halloween costume? C'mon

"I do beleive the entire US Army - men sleep with men. its called bunking. yes - I know - being silly." *****-yes the other ones above are just as silly

that is what i meant

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: For the most part I see gays as the ones who kept getting rejected so they decided to go the other way. If you see the most of them are ugly, fat and have self//esteam problems.

You are now officially the most arrogant chauvinist on this board.

Congratulations.

quote Originally posted by Jaygee79: You are now officially the most arrogant chauvinist on this board. Congratulations.

Yes I think there may be issues there. He has a traumatic past, a very unique life, and does not share my viewpoint on this subject.