You know when I seen the movie, I didnt see anything wrong with the "Watch this drive...." scene. What I did see was a president doing what he implored Americans to do.... continue living your lives just as you always have.
SSGT Sammy Williams, USAF Still serving proudly.....
Thanks for your service I do however question this "Continue living your lives just as you always have" My life is great but I have NOTHING! nor do I have any chance at getting ANYTHING so exactly what the hell am I supposed to keep doing that I was doing 4 years ago?
I can't find a computer job that pays... for freak sakes I can't even get a job as an order entry clerk at QVC because I'm over qualified!
So what the hell am I supposed to keep doing? Oh.. I know PROTESTING MY FREAKING ASS OFF!
You guys don't NEED to be defending Iraq, you need to be HERE defending this country and enjoying life where no bullets are flying at you!
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08:27 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
BULL FREAKING SHINOLA!! ... So don't ASSUME you know what they hate about us Americans because they don't hate us in general BUT THEY freaking DISPISE our governemnt!!
Very eloquent, Bill. I don't assume everything. A good friend of mine is Lebanese, and a Christian. He doesn't advertise his Christianity around other Arabs because in his own words, it would be "life threatening." But since he IS an Arab, they tell him things that you or I wouldn't hear. Who are "they?" "They" are Arabs in general. Not to speak for 100% of the Arab population, but it's alarming how pervasive in the Arab community the hatred for Americans is. Hatred for AMERICANS, not hatred for America's government.
This is not based on information from a right (or left) wind news source or a political pundit. This is information I've gotten from a man I trust and respect.
For what it's worth, he's also an Arab I would share a foxhole with any day, and though he was born in Lebanon, he would fight to defend OUR country. So don't just call Bull when you don't like what you hear.
I wonder what all you guys that hate Bush with a passion are going to do if he wins the next election? Does that means that we will have to listen to your hateful rantings for another four years, or will you give up because he will be lame duck president if he wins again?
He didnot win last time by 500,000 peoples votes but did " WIN " the NONrecount 5-4 courts "VOTE"
but donot worry BuSh's family values will result in ONE term just like his dad for exactly the same reason "IT IS THE ECONOIMY STUPID"
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
I wonder what all you guys that hate Bush with a passion are going to do if he wins the next election? Does that means that we will have to listen to your hateful rantings for another four years, or will you give up because he will be lame duck president if he wins again?
One quote that I really enjoyed that I noticed in someones "Signature" was "Four more wars". I would really hate to see BUSH win but it wouldn't change anything directly in my life. I would find the world would be an un-safer place. In my earlier comment I made comparing BUSH to HITLER....I apologize for that it was a bit harsh but this President you have now shows no respect for human life ...his priorities seems to be above others. I hope, if Bush does not get elected that the next President will show a bit more of compassion for the lives of American people and people from other countries and not use presidency as a game of RISK.....actual lives of human beings are at stake.
Very eloquent, Bill. I don't assume everything. A good friend of mine is Lebanese, and a Christian. He doesn't advertise his Christianity around other Arabs because in his own words, it would be "life threatening." But since he IS an Arab, they tell him things that you or I wouldn't hear. Who are "they?" "They" are Arabs in general. Not to speak for 100% of the Arab population, but it's alarming how pervasive in the Arab community the hatred for Americans is. Hatred for AMERICANS, not hatred for America's government.
This is not based on information from a right (or left) wind news source or a political pundit. This is information I've gotten from a man I trust and respect.
For what it's worth, he's also an Arab I would share a foxhole with any day, and though he was born in Lebanon, he would fight to defend OUR country. So don't just call Bull when you don't like what you hear.
We are NOT all christians! As far as sharing a foxhole with a "Lebanese man"? NEVER!!!!!!!! But this American I would take a bullet for!
My dogtags read NON DENOM for a reason. 1st I'm not affiliated with a barbaric church. 2nd I believe in ANY god that will keep me alive when the moment calls. I will again hasten to point out that anyone STUPID enough to claim to be a christian in the middle of an Arab country DESERVES to have his head lopped off! For one American values do NOT exist in the Arab world but does that mean us arrogant Amricans can just trod anywhere we please with impunity?
I mean can you say HELLO.... Darwin? And again I reiterate they HATE our government MORE than they hate us citizens. But yes they do hate ARROGANT citizens and if you have been up to date on current events they have also killed a few other countries citizens for their arrogance as well.. I guess they hate all those religions followers now too?
I may not know much but I'll tell you what Grasshopper, I've had a hell of alot of good teachers!
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-15-2004).]
My mentor "Turk" died in 1997. It was the saddest day of my life when I got the news.
He used to call me "Billy" and he was the only one I ever allowed to call me by that name besides my parents, I flet like is son.
I'll never forget the day when he put his arm on my shoulder and said "Now that's what I call working" as we watched the enginelathe bite 1/2 inch of metal out of a bolthead for a RUSH job.
The last time I saw him was in his office when I thanked him for being one of the most important figures in my life. I said "do you remember when I told you to "either run this machine yourself or take a hike!, We'll I didn't mean that with any disrespect because I have the utmost respect for you"" He replied something like "Ya know Billy, you are the best damn mechanic I ever knew and it was a pleasure having you work for me." Then he thanked me for appriciating his hard work because NO ONE else ever had the courage to.
I miss that man and as I type this tears are welling up in my eyes.
He may have ruled his business with an iron fist but I ruled my area like the hellspaun devil on steroids and I gave him 150% all the time.
I wonder what all you guys that hate Bush with a passion are going to do if he wins the next election? Does that means that we will have to listen to your hateful rantings for another four years, or will you give up because he will be lame duck president if he wins again?
There'll always be a bunch of crap flying back and forth between the two sides.
"... but you can't please all the people all the time."
Besides, you're good for stirring the pot.
GL
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09:25 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
And no doubt he is embarrassed to be realated to you if you think you can call me, or any American a Nazi.
You will find NO supporters here Bill. Even if some of us disagree on Politics YOU crossed the line. WE ARE ALL PATRIOTS! Even those of us who don't get it still love this country.
So S-H-U-T U-P!
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10:39 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
so lieing is OK if your the president as long as it is not in a court????
Read it again, I stated "To the American People" too.
quote
like ronnie raygun did about the iran-contra deals??? but wasn't that under oath too?????
Ronnie lied about Iran Contra? funny, I read were he had no knowledge of the arms exchange. I also remember the inquiry absolving him of any knowledge of the deal. Where is your proof that he lied to the American people? This I gotta see....
quote
or BuSh2 about WMD or why we are now in iraq or the true cost of the war???
Just point me to the lie. Where did he say one thing that was proved to be inaccurate and show me the proof that it was not just an error or misunderstanding but a deliberate falsehood............waiting waiting waiting.
quote
HOW MANY LIES DID KEN STAR TELL???? OR KEN -BOY LAY ???
Uhh, got a news flash for ya Ray-boy. Ken Starr was a prosecuter....Prosecutors don't give testimony...THEY ASK the questions. It was the guy on THE other side of the table that did all the lying. Ringing any bells?
quote
where is the outrage about the CONNs LIES
You lost me here...conn?
quote
EVERBODY LIES ABOUT SEX !!! GET OVER IT!!!! THE WITCH HUNT FAILED!!!
Uh, no we don't. If brought into a grand jury and asked if I had ever boned a donkey or not, I would tell the truth. And I sure as hell hope you would too. We are a nation of laws and if in the opinion of the judicial system your sex life, or that of Bill Clinton, Kobe Bryant, Mike Tyson, or Mickey F****** Mouse is considered relevant, then start talking!
Or go to jail for perjury......get over that, pal.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 10-09-2004).]
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10:51 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Your full of sh!t, you and I both know that the Bush administration (Bush and all of his staff) conveniently mentioned 9/11 and Iraq over and over and over and over again so that people would connect the dots. Those speeches and press releases/conferences were crafted in just such a fashion to invoke fear of Iraq and what terrorists might do with Iraq's cooperation, and suspicion that evil Saddam was somehow behind 9/11.
We all know there is no evidence to support those assertions. Yes the 9/11 report conveniently leaves bits and pieces for both parties to claim as proof they were right, but there is no way anyone in their right mind can claim Iraq was a threat to us. Its a bunch of horsesh!t and you know it, yet you fight on for your conservative heroes on principle. That makes you insincere and dishonest with yourself. You KNOW they wanted us all to believe Saddam was part of 9/11.
Mentioned 9/11?
allright class, put the finger paints down. It's story time.
Try to get this simple concept Conn, becasue you seem to be having real trouble with it:
WE ARE AT WAR!!!!!!!!
ANY country that sponsors terrorism is on the hit list. Bush said in the days after 9/11 that, "We shall make NO distiction between the terrorists and those nations who support them".
Do you need a dictionary to help you understand that sentence?
Bush has mentioned EVERY terrorist sponsor nation BY NAME in the last 3 years; Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc. They are ALL on the hit list and ALL are being dealt with. Iran has agreed to un-impeded Atomic Energy Commission inspections for the first time in history thanks to Bush. Libya has thrown in the towel completely and has TOTALLY disarmed. Diplomatic negotiations are going on with North Korea RIGHT NOW to end their Nuclear Program that your boy Willie allowed to flourish until we ended-up on the brink of global catastrophy. Iraq is a smoking hole in the process of being rebuilt from the ground-up. Syria is next!
WE ARE AT WAR WITH TERROISM!! Bush mentioned the "axis of evil" and 9/11 in the same speech about the war on terror and you have a problem with that?
How utterly desparate the left is getting.
After Arnold Schwarzeneggers LASNDSLIDE victory over Gray Davis Nacy Pelosi said, "This vote is an indictment of the Bush Administration". Congrats Conn, you just topped THAT statement for depth through the looking glass.
Bwahahahahahaha
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11:08 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
ANY country that sponsors terrorism is on the hit list. Bush said in the days after 9/11 that, "We shall make NO distiction between the terrorists and those nations who support them".
Do you need a dictionary to help you understand that sentence?
Bush has mentioned EVERY terrorist sponsor nation BY NAME in the last 3 years; Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc. They are ALL on the hit list and ALL are being dealt with. Iran has agreed to un-impeded Atomic Energy Commission inspections for the first time in history thanks to Bush. Libya has thrown in the towel completely and has TOTALLY disarmed. Diplomatic negotiations are going on with North Korea RIGHT NOW to end their Nuclear Program that your boy Willie allowed to flourish until we ended-up on the brink of global catastrophy. Iraq is a smoking hole in the process of being rebuilt from the ground-up. Syria is next!
So what do you have to say about Saudi Arabia? They grant amnesty to terrorists!
And no doubt he is embarrassed to be realated to you if you think you can call me, or any American a Nazi.
You will find NO supporters here Bill. Even if some of us disagree on Politics YOU crossed the line. WE ARE ALL PATRIOTS! Even those of us who don't get it still love this country.
So S-H-U-T U-P!
Embarased? No way.
No supporters for what? For you? For me? I don't get it Todd. If you are not goose stepping then why are you so damn upset when I "say" it appears by your banter that you are blindly playing follow the inept leader?
You seem to CONSTANTLY spout off facts and figures from up on high that COUNTER what I see and I SEE alot of smoke and mirrors way down here in the trenches!!
I mean WTF? Why do you always, alway discredit me?
OK I dropped out of Highschool at 17 Worked odd jobs (picking trash, refuling aircraft, Construction (ran jackhammers) lot attendent for a car dealership DRIVING NEW CARS hundreds of miles and a fe other odd jobs) I move out of my parents house.
I entered the military at 20 as a 67U Helecopter repairman AFTER the Marines turned me down because I had no HSD. Incidentally you had to SCORE VERY HIGH on the ASVAB to get that job with a highschool diploma let alone without it .
Got my GED and PASSED with an above NATIONAL average score.
I worked at the De Nantional Guard for 5.9 months and was terminated (after much protest by my supervisore & many fellow employees) because my Uncle was the Colonel in the De Guard. Freaking pricks distroyed my career!
I went back to heavy construction, Worked in a machine shop owned by John Saddic (above), mover to Fl and became a night club Dj, and auto mechanic and a CNC operator. then moved back to Pa
Went to Computer learning Center in Philly and earned my credibility as a competent computer GURU
I then became sucessfully employed as a tech and got a decent job (9 an hr. at the time) Moved to Atlanta Ga and worked as a tech there earning 35k then to Fl to Dj again for a year or two. Then back to PA where I earned more 45k at the top of my game up till DRUM ROLL PLEASE 2002!!
So Toadster my life has not been all that rosey. I's been an UPHILL battle and I'm still plugging away at it!!
So excuse me if I feel you are an arrogant SOB and don't like being called what you are. GET OVER IT!!
Because I have to somehow get over my problems and lables!!
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-16-2004).]
I'm not just living in the trenches TODD, my freaking face is pounded into the freaking dirt DAILY!!
It would appear that you deserve it if you call everybody who disagrees with you a Nazi.
quote
Originally posted by Tigger:
Saudi Arabia
Good point. Saudi Arabia is a future problem however. The status quo is advantageous right now but in time SA will be made to answer for its abhorant Human Rights record and molly-coddling of Terroists.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-15-2004).]
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11:20 PM
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
Same ole same ole. Of course we have the right to defend ourselves.. But thats the point we were not defending anything, we were solely on the offense. .
you are totally right about that with respect to the Iraq war, nobody can argue that....well, I'm sure some would
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11:22 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Good point. Saudi Arabia is a future problem however. The status quo is advantageous right now but in time SA will be made to answer for its abhorant Human Rights record and molly-coddling of Terroists.
It would appear that you deserve it if you call everybody who disagrees with you a Nazi.
quote
Originally posted by Toddster: No. No, you don't. Sitting at your computer all day and calling yourself a "consultant" is not working. GO GET A JOB.
Your point being what? That you are now entitled to live off the rest of us since you have paid your "dues"? Nice try.
No it isn't! It is MINE because I earned it and the fact that you feel you have a right to it by virtue of your unwillingness to come down off you high horse and take a job that is "beneath" you is what gauls me. I have never been achamed of ANY job I have had. I have been everything from a Builder to a State Manager and I consider any work to be good work. Having childred to feed puts things in perspective. Something you won't learn until you stop behaving like a child yourself and start being RESPONSIBLE for a few.
Mighty easy to cast dispersions at the people who are paying your bills for you isn't it Bill? Read my last post again. You said i lived in an Ivory Tower because I was out of touch with the amount of money people have since my car didn't sell. Only one problem with your little theory...the car sold dufus!
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
84Bill, Ivy tower? Get a job you hypocrite!!!! I work 7 days a week most of the time and I AM THE MIDDLE CLASS you claim is disappearing. What we really are are the hard working Americans who pay the taxes that you are living on with your monthly welfare check. So spend a little less time on the chat sites and go to work. And don't give me any crap about not being able to find a job. They are all over the place for people willing to actually work.
Of all the fricking nerve, If you are going to stick your hand in my pocket for a fist full of my hard earned money at least give me the courtesy of a reach around.
Neptune...Time to come back to Earth.
Oh and since the start of this thread how many of you have read Clinton's book? Or should I ask how many of you can read? . . . . . . Got kinda quiet.
You don't just disagree with me Toad. You look down on me as if I were a piece of garbage under your feet.. You are a freaking pig.
You refuse to pay me any respect as an EQUAL when I tell you there is a problem with this COUNTRY because of people like you who IGNORE it! You have the audacity to call yourself a compasionate and caring American? You CLAIM you are honorable by vrtue of your family and their acomplishemts in war and that they fought for FREEDOM, YET you have displayed NONE but CONTEMPT?
No freaking wonder this country is a mess.
BTW That order entry job stars at 8.50 per Hr.
Look back and TELL me when the last time it was I made so little money.. I made more than that in one nite as a CLUB Dj!
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-15-2004).]
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11:43 PM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
Us (western world as a whole) benefits from keeping the royal Saud family in power. They are the only thing keeping their religious police in check. If the rulers were pushed aside the next largest power would be the religious hardliners who threw away 50+ yrs of progress in Iran. Since a lot of you like quoting history, take a look at what Iran was like in the late 60's early 70's, they were an emerging, progressive nation. Along comes the Aytollah and a bunch of hardline fanatics and "poof" back to no education for women no civil rights, religious law above all ect ect.. Or the simple answer.. Better to deal with the devil you know..
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11:45 PM
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
do you honestly think we're defending ourselves from Saddam Hussein...do you think he was actually going to do us harm in the near future??? I say that's speculative....give me one thing that would make me think he was a direct threat
80% of americans recently polled? 80% of the people I know are total morons
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 07-16-2004).]
do you honestly think we're defending ourselves from Saddam Hussein...do you think he was actually going to do us harm in the near future??? I say that's speculative....give me one thing to that would make me think he was a direct threat
80% of americans recently polled? 80% of the people I know are total morons
LOL!
Thanks ditch, I needed that laugh.
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11:53 PM
PFF
System Bot
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Us (western world as a whole) benefits from keeping the royal Saud family in power. They are the only thing keeping their religious police in check. If the rulers were pushed aside the next largest power would be the religious hardliners who threw away 50+ yrs of progress in Iran. Since a lot of you like quoting history, take a look at what Iran was like in the late 60's early 70's, they were an emerging, progressive nation. Along comes the Aytollah and a bunch of hardline fanatics and "poof" back to no education for women no civil rights, religious law above all ect ect.. Or the simple answer.. Better to deal with the devil you know..
Why is that an excuse? Who says this country all of a sudden can't stand up to hardline religious fanatics in the front of fighting a war on terror? We can fight religious fanatics like the Taliban, Al-queda, and nutcases like Saddam, but not Sauds?
[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-16-2004).]
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11:59 PM
Jul 16th, 2004
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
When this war first started I was all for it. Now, my opinion has changed. I don't think any of this BS is worth one american life. As far as I'm concerned, **** Iraq, and **** all the people over there. Lets focus on the people over here. If and when they become a direct threat to us, nuke the bastards to hell. We can make the desert over there into one big pool of molten glass. I don't give a damn about them. My first concern is my family.
I'm sick of this crap. My fathers side of the family has a strong military background and they are all for this war. I have talked to them about it and it feels like I'm talking to a bunch of brainwashed machines. I love my dad but he sounds like a politician. This is just nuts
forgive me for speaking my mind, but that's how I feel. It's my right as an american to say so.
Dave
Edit: man, I know I'm going to piss some people off with that one
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 07-16-2004).]
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12:11 AM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16189 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
"80% of americans recently polled? 80% of the people I know are total morons"
Must be the same ones i know.
wow this thread has sure moved along.8 pages so fast.I think 4 today.
I am out of this i think.I don't really know why i cared to say anything anyway.I know i won't change anybodys mind and i don't want to.I did learn a few things and found some information to look into so it isn't a total waste.I'm gonna look in on it and run it through the BS filter in case anyone has anything new to say.I always like to learn and see another point of veiw.
Call me when you guys have something new to say.Or even if you have something funny.
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12:15 AM
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
"80% of americans recently polled? 80% of the people I know are total morons"
Must be the same ones i know.
wow this thread has sure moved along.8 pages so fast.I think 4 today.
I am out of this i think.I don't really know why i cared to say anything anyway.I know i won't change anybodys mind and i don't want to.I did learn a few things and found some information to look into so it isn't a total waste.I'm gonna look in on it and run it through the BS filter in case anyone has anything new to say.I always like to learn and see another point of veiw.
Call me when you guys have something new to say.Or even if you have something funny.
I must know 80% of their distant realitives.
And I second that. Move along... Nothing more to see here but roadkill
--------------- Driving along surprised at how light the traffic is, 84Bill flicked on the radio and jammed out to some CCR. Just then a squirrel let into the road and 84Bill was forced to manuver quickly, unfortunaty he never saw the Toad. Humming happily along... I see a bad moon a rising.... I see trouble on the way.. so don't go out tonitght...
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-16-2004).]
When this war first started I was all for it. Now, my opinion has changed. I don't think any of this BS is worth one american life. As far as I'm concerned, **** Iraq, and **** all the people over there. Lets focus on the people over here. If and when they become a direct threat to us, nuke the bastards to hell. We can make the desert over there into one big pool of molten glass. I don't give a damn about them. My first concern is my family.
I'm sick of this crap. My fathers side of the family has a strong military background and they are all for this war. I have talked to them about it and it feels like I'm talking to a bunch of brainwashed machines. I love my dad but he sounds like a politician. This is just nuts
forgive me for speaking my mind, but that's how I feel. It's my right as an american to say so.
Dave
Edit: man, I know I'm going to piss some people off with that one
Thanks again.
Just do me a favor Dave and look objectivly at the issues that face us citizens. It's not as rosey and pretty as our politicians (smoke & mirrors) numbers make it seem.
Just look for yourself and report back to us what you see.
You have a PM
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12:35 AM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
LOL it never ceases to suprise me how many people are still ignorant.
First of all, I haven't seen F911 because I refuse to give my money to a guy who, every time he is in a foreign country, likes to tell people how "stupid" americans are and how we are ALL idiots over here. Secondly, that movie is so one-sided and full of lies, I can understand why many theatres don't want to show it.
Besides that, why is all this talk still going on about the 2000 election? You people who are trying to make the arguement that bush cheated need to go check your recent history. There were several independant recounts done by places such as ABC, the New York Times, etc... EVERY ONE of the recounts still showed that Bush won the election fair and square. But lets forget that for a min. Do you really want a guy like Al Gore president? Have you heard him speak in public lately? He is a looney tune on steroids! Talk about brain washing if that guy was elected all of you on here saying bush brainwashes people would be praying to Al Gore by now because he would have you believeing that he invented God!
What I want to know is how many of you are going to go to vote this November, against Bush, just because you don't like him? I think it is funny that you would sell your souls and vote for this Fake John Kerry guy just because you don't like Bush. Why don't you ask yourselves something...Why do you hate bush? Is it because the MEDIA has told you so many lies about Bush? Or is it because you have done your own personal, non-biased research into Bush's past and presidency and found something you don't agree with? I think all of you are basing all of this hate on the half-truths and lies the media has BRAINWASHED you with.
Good god people grow a brain and learn how to look past all the hate and find the truth.
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12:36 AM
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
Why is that an excuse? Who says this country all of a sudden can't stand up to hardline religious fanatics in the front of fighting a war on terror? We can fight religious fanatics like the Taliban, Al-queda, and nutcases like Saddam, but not Sauds?
Not all at the same time... we're already shorthanded in Iraq. I think the hope is that Saudi will come around on it's on. Lybia seems to be. They did kill some of the ones that beheaded Berg right after it happened. Saudi does seem to be taking a harder line with terrorist, a couple of weeks ago they gave them 30 days to turn themselves in with the promise of no death penalty... or phase a harsh crackdown... I guess we'll see if they were serious in a couple of weeks. The royal family has limited control over some parts of the country.
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12:39 AM
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
Just do me a favor Dave and look objectivly at the issues that face us citizens. It's not as rosey and pretty as our politicians (smoke & mirrors) numbers make it seem.
Just look for yourself and report back to us what you see.
You have a PM
believe me man, I'll look at it with my eyes wide open and do the best I can
this forum is great, I learn something new every day (somedays it's something big, somedays it's something small, either way, I'm glad people put up with me).....NO, I'm not being brainwashed, I'm too smart for that
are you being brainwashed???....that's not to you Bill
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 07-16-2004).]
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12:42 AM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
believe me man, I'll look at it with my eyes wide open and do the best I can
this forum is great, I learn something new every day (somedays it's something big, somedays it's something small, either way, I'm glad people put up with me).....NO, I'm not being brainwashed, I'm too smart for that
are you being brainwashed???....that's not to you Bill
Oh man! When I get working again I'm gunna write me a nice FAT check to Cliff... errr.. I mean to everyone because this forum ROCKS!!!
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-16-2004).]
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12:49 AM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Not all at the same time... we're already shorthanded in Iraq. I think the hope is that Saudi will come around on it's on. Lybia seems to be. They did kill some of the ones that beheaded Berg right after it happened. Saudi does seem to be taking a harder line with terrorist, a couple of weeks ago they gave them 30 days to turn themselves in with the promise of no death penalty... or phase a harsh crackdown... I guess we'll see if they were serious in a couple of weeks. The royal family has limited control over some parts of the country.
Who's fault is it that we're shorthanded?
So Saudi's are ok if they appear to be taking a stand on terror and it's ok to take their word for it? "No sir, we do not support terrorists."
Do you realize we cannot interrogate these terrorists who turn themselves in and are limited in how much intelligence we can extract from them because we need Saudi permission. I wouldn't be surprised if Bin Laden is in Saudi Arabia right now.
No excuse, no excuse. No terrorist should get an offer or even a free pass on the death penalty! When terrorists take our people in or attack us they don't offer free passes on the death penalty!
It's an insult to everyone who lost their lives and to their families in 9/11 and other past terrorists attacks!
[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-16-2004).]
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01:01 AM
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
Oh man! When I get working again I'm gunna write me a nice FAT check to Cliff... errr.. I mean to everyone because this forum ROCKS!!!
this ones from both of us....this is my half ass cut and paste attempt:
Dave
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LOL it never ceases to suprise me how many people are still ignorant.
First of all, I haven't seen F911 because I refuse to give my money to a guy who, every time he is in a foreign country, likes to tell people how "stupid" americans are and how we are ALL idiots over here. Secondly, that movie is so one-sided and full of lies, I can understand why many theatres don't want to show it.
Besides that, why is all this talk still going on about the 2000 election? You people who are trying to make the arguement that bush cheated need to go check your recent history. There were several independant recounts done by places such as ABC, the New York Times, etc... EVERY ONE of the recounts still showed that Bush won the election fair and square. But lets forget that for a min. Do you really want a guy like Al Gore president? Have you heard him speak in public lately? He is a looney tune on steroids! Talk about brain washing if that guy was elected all of you on here saying bush brainwashes people would be praying to Al Gore by now because he would have you believeing that he invented God!
What I want to know is how many of you are going to go to vote this November, against Bush, just because you don't like him? I think it is funny that you would sell your souls and vote for this Fake John Kerry guy just because you don't like Bush. Why don't you ask yourselves something...Why do you hate bush? Is it because the MEDIA has told you so many lies about Bush? Or is it because you have done your own personal, non-biased research into Bush's past and presidency and found something you don't agree with? I think all of you are basing all of this hate on the half-truths and lies the media has BRAINWASHED you with.
Good god people grow a brain and learn how to look past all the hate and find the truth.
I read the papers, listen to NPR, watch Fox news, read the BBC, read the drudge, watch CNN, read every political thread, watch the price of goods, check the classifieds for jobs, and listen to people about their views. I see every issue from as many view points as I can and try to discern the truth through all the foggy details and crafted scripts. I get as close to the truth as someone can on the outside.
It seems a lot of people who stay so close to any party doctrine are the ones that are brainwashed.
Do you really believe a man that never HAD to work a day in his life for what he has can understand people like me or you? I don't, and I don't have all that much faith in his contenders, but I can tell you that none of the other candidates have sent MY friends to war and would send me over something so questionable. Regardless what you think of politics you can't tell me that this war was absolutely necessary and worth sacrificing so many people. Our people deserve better than to be thrown into battle on a hunch. Thats all it was even if the Bush administration was being honest. Thats a scary thought. Either they were wrong or they lied. Either way its not acceptable.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-16-2004).]
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01:16 AM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
Bush, where do I begin. The fact is Bush talks like a moderate republican but acts like a religious conservative. He just opened our national parks to logging and un did all the hard work to preserve them, he un did all the hard work to force polluting companies to install scrubbers to help clean the air and water, he stands in the way of critical stem cell research, he proposed a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to stop gay marriages, he cut veterans benefits, he signed a bill into law that allows companies to stop paying overtime to white collar employees, he helped reclassify McDonalds jobs as "manufacturing", he led us into war with no evidence, incorrect evidence, or lied to us, he cut the Dept. of Env Protection's budget, he awarded his vice presidents "former" company a no contest contract worth billions of dollars, he let the energy lobbyists write the energy policy for the US, then he and Cheney opposed the release of the transcripts from those meetings, Bush opposed a congressional investigation into the happennings on 9/11, he opposed an independent investigation into 9/11, he tells us nothing in news conferences which happen to be the least of any US president EVER, nearly every member of his cabinet has interests in oil as he himself does, should I continue???
I found it curious after browsing this thread that, other than Todds post that got deleted by his computer, no one addressed this. Conveniently ignored, me thinks.
I think Bush and Kerry are both idiots. I don't want either of them running this country. But I'll be damned if I vote for Bush, based soley on his decimation of Envirionmental laws and standards. Its an attrocity what hes doing to our envirionment, and the only possible rational for opening up National Forrests to mining and logging and reversing mandates for factories to clean up thier pollution is to serve Big Business. Guess what? It isn't the Presidents job to represent Big Business. He's supposed to be working for and representing the American People, and the only American people I see supporting this are the ones who stand to profit from it.
Further, I will not vote for him for the following two related reasons: I can forgive a mistake/misdeed, but not a lie about it. Second, I believe that not telling the entire truth is equivelent to lying. Selective interpretation and presentation is BS. I will give Bush an enormous amount of credit if he would do as Tony Blair is and take some responsibility. 2 9/11 panels and the Senate committee agree that his administration was mistaken and he continues to insist that there were links between Iraq and Al-Qaida. If ol' George would suck it up and give it to us reasonably straight for once, maybe I wouldn't be so dead set against him. Now I know that all politicians don't like to publicly admit that they've made an error as it hurts thier career, but when an error has had these kinds of reprecussions, its time to suck it up and do whats right. I'd bet dimes to dollars Bush would be a lot more open about all of this if he wasn't up for reelection.
I whole-heartedly think that all politicians should be limited to only ONE term in office. Far too often do they put thier careers and thier reelection before anything else, including doing what is right. They're more worried about thier own personal polls than they are about doing the best job they can do and truely representing the people who elected them. How bout THAT for a Constitutional Amendment?
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01:28 AM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
No I am not voting for bush ..I love my country. God Bless the USA AND the World!!
I think its really funny how people who havent seen Moore's movie trash it and say its full of lies. If it was then I'm sure Bush's lawyers would be filing slander suits. Since they know its true, they know they would be opening a can of worms that would blow up in their faces if they tried to sue Moore.
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 07-16-2004).]
Originally posted by ditch: this ones from both of us....this is my half ass cut and paste attempt:
Dave
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Well I'll be the first to kiss your hairy ass!!
On behalf of the ENTIRE forum (even Todd ) I say,
Thank You Dave.
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02:20 AM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
No I am not voting for bush ..I love my country. God Bless the USA AND the World!!
I think its really funny how people who havent seen Moore's movie trash it and say its full of lies. If it was then I'm sure Bush's lawyers would be filing slander suits. Since they know its true, they know they would be opening a can of worms that would blow up in their faces if they tried to sue Moore.
I don't agree with Erik much, but I really like the point he makes here. Hadn't considered that, and I think that goes for a lot of other people too.
No I am not voting for bush ..I love my country. God Bless the USA AND the World!!
I think its really funny how people who havent seen Moore's movie trash it and say its full of lies. If it was then I'm sure Bush's lawyers would be filing slander suits. Since they know its true, they know they would be opening a can of worms that would blow up in their faces if they tried to sue Moore.
If Bush were to sue everyone who slandered or libeled him, he would never stay out of court. Hell, he'd be suing half the people on this forum. Besides, it's an editorial documentary. Bush would have a hard time with it. Plus, it just doesn't look good for a President to be suing a filmaker. It would look like he was stifling free speech. How many people from either party have to tell you F9-11 is mainly fabrication, while providing sources and facts, will it take for you to get it. The movie is BS. I'm sorry, that's just the truth. It has been debunked repeatedly.
This is my summation of events of this thread:
Some people want that F9-11 movie to be true so bad it hurts. Sure, some of the content is true but presented in a way that leads the audience to false conclusions. It's hilarious that some people feel that I need to see the movie before commenting on it. To those folks I say, I have lived it for the last 4 years. I am very into the news, politics and current events. Unless Morre is completely making crap up, I have already been exposed, in detail, to everything in the movie.
People are going to hate W regardless of the facts. Even 84Bill stated that "that facts are bullshit". Of course, Bill also seems to think that the government is more opressive today than WWII (Japanese Internment Camps, segregation, etc..). Basically this means he doesn't agree with the facts and they don't support his view so they don't count. He seems really pissed off because Bush won't reinstate the draft so Bill will be able to hate Bush even more. Bill, you are not the first person to ever fall on hard times. The pity party is wearing thin. Be a man and do something about it instead of whining.
connecticutFIERO had tried repeatedly to accuse me, President Bush, and "conservative religious whackos" of claiming a link between Saddam Hussein and 9-11. Never mind the fact that NOBDY in the Bush admin has ever stated anything like that. Some quote where Bush expresses concern that one of our most visible enemies (Saddam) may employ terrorist tactics on our homeland now that he has seen that they work, does not infer any kind of connection to 9-11. It was never said that Saddam had anything to do with 9-11. The question was asked and the answer, based on hard evidence and intelligence was, no. Yet, ctFIERO still wants to think that conservatives just spout the party line of our dark lords regardless of the fact that I come with documented fact and liberals show up with "what they heard" and nary a fact to back it up.
It's amazing how many people think we should take a heap of civilian casualties before taking action. I heard numerous people state, "Iraq never attacked us, etc.....). Well, neither did Germany or Italy but we beat the crap out of them anyway. Not to have done so would have cost countless European and eventually American lives. The whole "Saddam's not a threat until he kills thousands of Americans" mime doesn't wash with me. I didn't want to take the chance of losing those Americans. Another good one is, "Saddam had no ties to terrorists, was a secualrist, he hated fundamentalism". Saddam was a secularist when it served him and he was a devout Muslim when that served him. The 9-11 commission, among other organizations, have stated that Saddam definitley gave money, support and shelter to known terrorists and organizations. http://www.papadoc.net/WoW/ConnectionbetweenAlQuedaandSaddam.htm
A lot of the other liberal posters seem like young children so I really don't blame them for not having their facts straight. Adults, however, should know better.
Does that means that we will have to listen to your hateful rantings for another four years, or will you give up because he will be lame duck president if he wins again?
