All i got to say to that is WOW i hope you don't represent every American
I can definitely say that YOU don't represent every Canadian.
Are you from Montreal or somethin' Mike? Of course you are. God do I wish you morons would separate from Canada. I really don't see why the rest of us want to keep you here. I'm really not surprised that Michael-POS-Moore left an impression on you. You don't strike me as the type of guy who can think for himself.
------------------
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10:20 AM
Voytek Member
Posts: 1924 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
If Bush were to sue everyone who slandered or libeled him, he would never stay out of court. Hell, he'd be suing half the people on this forum. Besides, it's an editorial documentary. Bush would have a hard time with it. Plus, it just doesn't look good for a President to be suing a filmaker. It would look like he was stifling free speech. How many people from either party have to tell you F9-11 is mainly fabrication, while providing sources and facts, will it take for you to get it. The movie is BS. I'm sorry, that's just the truth. It has been debunked repeatedly.
I read this first part and it made me laugh.
If someone made a documentary about me, I would actually pay to go see it and then go on a photo op to promote it.
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10:25 AM
Voytek Member
Posts: 1924 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
One quote that I really enjoyed that I noticed in someones "Signature" was "Four more wars". I would really hate to see BUSH win but it wouldn't change anything directly in my life. I would find the world would be an un-safer place. In my earlier comment I made comparing BUSH to HITLER....I apologize for that it was a bit harsh but this President you have now shows no respect for human life ...his priorities seems to be above others. I hope, if Bush does not get elected that the next President will show a bit more of compassion for the lives of American people and people from other countries and not use presidency as a game of RISK.....actual lives of human beings are at stake.
I don't get it Mike: you voted Conservative in the last election. Hmmm.. Steven Harper officially supported the US government when they went to Iraq. Steven Harper has much of the same ideology as GW (anti abortion, etc). I'm confused.
Also, you say Bush has no regard for human life. Hmmm - another good one. Have you ever read how many people were killed in Iraq BEFORE the war?? Well, you should. The numbers are staggering compared to how many have been killed in the war. Also, Bush has introduced legislation where a criminal who kills a preagnant mother is charged with double murder for killing the baby. He's also anti abortion. No regard for human life????
I'll attribute your inconsistencies to the fact that you're only 20.
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10:37 AM
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
Tug, you do realize that people can form thoughts and opinions (be they right or wrong) without being told to do so, right?
You do realize that someone of the status of President of United States has a lot of influence on the people of his country. If someone repeats something over and over again and swears to you its true...they just make up your mind for you. Its not like many people have connections do the UN or to Iraq to see what documents are real or not so if someone shows you something who has these connections you don't got to much choice on what to believe espesically if he's shoving it down everyone's throats.
[This message has been edited by MontrealMike (edited 07-16-2004).]
Originally posted by 87GTSleeper: This is my summation of events of this thread:
Some people want that F9-11 movie to be true so bad it hurts. Sure, some of the content is true but presented in a way that leads the audience to false conclusions. It's hilarious that some people feel that I need to see the movie before commenting on it. To those folks I say, I have lived it for the last 4 years. I am very into the news, politics and current events. Unless Morre is completely making crap up, I have already been exposed, in detail, to everything in the movie.
People are going to hate W regardless of the facts. Even 84Bill stated that "that facts are bullshit". Of course, Bill also seems to think that the government is more opressive today than WWII (Japanese Internment Camps, segregation, etc..). Basically this means he doesn't agree with the facts and they don't support his view so they don't count. He seems really pissed off because Bush won't reinstate the draft so Bill will be able to hate Bush even more. Bill, you are not the first person to ever fall on hard times. The pity party is wearing thin. Be a man and do something about it instead of whining.
As a voter who voted FOR Bush based entirely in FACTS that at the time made sense to me, who now undestands that Gerogie DuhbYa Bush is a totally inept, babbling, tyranical, idiotic, stark raving, (tell me when to stop and I'll ignore you) underhanded, lieing, backstabbing, paranoid, nazi like, bafoon AS A FACT. I can assure you I know what "I" am talking about. Hate, is putting my feelings rather mildy when taking into consideration it does not DESCRIBE by definition of the word all the feelings I have for this egomaniac dipshit of a leader I am almost but not quite ashamed to admit I voted for.
Pissed off howeve comes alot closer to the feeling I have for a total dipwad that seems to think all is well with the land above all which he surveys and that I am forced to unwittingly and blindly follow as I myself were his equal. However armed with the FACTS as I know them I am now protected from the "smoke & mirrors" his inept & mindless followers eat it up like the obideant SLAVES that they are.
As I said in another thread THOSE OPPRESSIONS no longer exist and therefore are an INVALID ARGUEMENT that you ineptly keep calling me on the carpet to explain as if you were to dense to understand it the first time around. Fear not 87GTSleeper I know your pea of a brain is a tad slow to pick up on the subtle let alone the harsh realities we all must face daily, it will grow in time and soon your testies will drop.
Pitty? Heh.. First let me state that it is not pitty I seek. I seek ACTORS to take part in what I have presented, not some sideshow freak who thinks I'll pay him his due. However, I do have a kind heart and am abliged to give up what the freak deserves in reward for his time and am ALL to happy to do so. Pitty is something I feel for the totally inept and often misguided blind who love to play follow the inept leader as the frolic merrily down the path of destruction. If anything this mad frolic has me VERY concerned, pitty is BY FAR the last thing on my mind in what I seek.
However you are entitled to your grossly fouled judgement of me and UNFORTUNATLY for the remaining citizens of the country, for that matter the entire WORLD if you continue do judge me so. You Sir are a totally mindless goose stepping bafoon who has as much credibility and brain power as a chafing dingleburry hanging from my lilly white United States of America loving hairy, foul smelling, arrogant, buttocks.
Do try to have a good day Sir. --------------------- Seeing a hot momma hitchhiking along the road, 84Bill straightens out his tinfoil hat and prepares to pull over. The hottie aproaches the car but notices the foul "odear" eminating from 84Bill and says "never mind, you smell like smoke." 84Bill being the ever polite one leans over and sniffs the air and replies "Eww.. you smell like fish" then slams on the accelerator thus covering the offender under a pile of dirt where she belongs.
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01:43 PM
PFF
System Bot
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
As a voter who voted FOR Bush based entirely in FACTS that at the time made sense to me, who now undestands that Gerogie DuhbYa Bush is a totally inept, babbling, tyranical, idiotic, stark raving, (tell me when to stop and I'll ignore you) underhanded, lieing, backstabbing, paranoid, nazi like, bafoon AS A FACT. I can assure you I know what "I" am talking about. Hate, is putting my feelings rather mildy when taking into consideration it does not DESCRIBE by definition of the word all the feelings I have for this egomaniac dipshit of a leader I am almost but not quite ashamed to admit I voted for.
Tell us how you really feel.
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01:56 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
A double standard for the war on terror. It's ok to pre-emptivly strike Iraq on the questionable basis of WMD's but ok to let countries like Saudi Arabia who currently harbor terrorists (well they deperately search like mad at the last minute when they have a hostage held to be killed in their country), fund terrorists, and grant amnesty to terrorists.
Why is this administration being soft with Saudis?
Could it be that Bush W, and Bush H. have oil ties to the Saudi royal family? Could it be Saudis want us to attack Iraq (because it wouldn't be right for them) to benefit and have a bigger share on the oil market? Fund it with US resources and troops lives in the name of American patriotism.
The terrorists on 9/11 were almost all Saudis, Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi.
Better start asking a lot of questions. I'm doing a lot of my own research and pieces of the puzzle are all of a sudden coming together.
Believe me if this was about Kerry I would be as much outspoken about it. I don't care if half of the democratic party is involved as well, it's serious.
[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-16-2004).]
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01:58 PM
86fierose Member
Posts: 4086 From: Livonia, Michigan Registered: Feb 2002
Even if the person who made it was insinuating that you were a corrupt, mass-murdering, idiot, super-villian? Please, spare me.
Were you not forewarned? By all means I beg of you to spare YOURSELF! Do not look to me as a crutch or an object of contempt for stupidity. I am neither yet I can very well be the ladder if you insist. My ladder is VERY short indeed and I don't have far up to climb in an attempt to kick you in the ass. Just don't turn arround and expcet me to stand in awe beause that would only make me laugh my freaking ass off!!
Good! You are starting to get on the right track......if you watched Michael Moore movie everyday for a couple years straight I would agree with you for sure. Let me make sure you understand, how many times have you heard Bush say that Iraq has WMD
HOW ABOUT A LITTLE TURNAROUND
See page 5 for details
[This message has been edited by MontrealMike (edited 07-16-2004).]
Originally posted by 87GTSleeper: Tug, you do realize that people can form thoughts and opinions (be they right or wrong) without being told to do so, right?
You didn't answer the question: Who told them that? (as in where would they get THAT idea?) The liberal media??
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill: As a voter who voted FOR Bush based entirely in FACTS that at the time made sense to me, who now undestands that Gerogie DuhbYa Bush is a totally inept, babbling, tyranical, idiotic, stark raving, (tell me when to stop and I'll ignore you) underhanded, lieing, backstabbing, paranoid, nazi like, bafoon AS A FACT. I can assure you I know what "I" am talking about. Hate, is putting my feelings rather mildy when taking into consideration it does not DESCRIBE by definition of the word all the feelings I have for this egomaniac dipshit of a leader I am almost but not quite ashamed to admit I voted for.
Uh, Bill? Most of that info was available before the election. I was not that much in favor of Gore, but Bush & Co. ALWAYS scared the HELL out of me. There was no question there would be a war if he got in. 911 was their cue, baby!
GL
[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 07-16-2004).]
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02:15 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Quote by 84Bill: "Seeing a hot momma hitchhiking along the road, 84Bill straightens out his tinfoil hat and prepares to pull over. The hottie aproaches the car but notices the foul "odear" eminating from 84Bill and says "never mind, you smell like smoke." 84Bill being the ever polite one leans over and sniffs the air and replies "Eww.. you smell like fish" then slams on the accelerator thus covering the offender under a pile of dirt where she belongs." ****************************************************************************************** I don't have to tell you...................you KNOW what just happened! (wipes tears)
Uh, Bill? Most of that info was available before the election. I was not that much in favor of Gore, but Bush & Co. ALWAYS scared the HELL out of me. There was no question there would be a war if he got in. 911 was their cue, baby!
GL
As I said in a previos post. I was far to busy chasing the "green god" to take note. So yes I was a total mindless, jackass who ineptly voted for the wrong guy. I should have voted for Nader.
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02:19 PM
PFF
System Bot
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
Originally posted by 84Bill: As I said in a previos post. I was far to busy chasing the "green god" to take note. So yes I was a total mindless, jackass who ineptly voted for the wrong guy. I should have voted for Nader.
Well, if you were going to throw your vote away you could have voted for Buchannan...
Foghorn Leghorn mode on.
That's a joke, son, ah say, that's a joke. Oh nevermind.
/ FL mode
GL
[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 07-16-2004).]
Well, if you were going to throw your vote away you could have voted for Buchannan...
Foghorn Leghorn mode on.
That's a joke, son, ah say, that's a joke. Oh nevermind.
/ FL mode
GL
Lets just say this about that. I want a "revolution" in our government and Nader would provide it as long as he manages to live long enough. However, IF it appears that Bush will win I MAY under GREAT DURES vote for Kerry. But to me Kerry is a little less the same but more than not.
Foghorn Leghorn? Well.. I says Well Son... If he were on the ticket I'd vote for him because after the last 4 years we all could use a laugh. Fortunatle I keep my votes numbered for just such an emergency.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-16-2004).]
As a voter who voted FOR Bush based entirely in FACTS that at the time made sense to me, who now undestands that Gerogie DuhbYa Bush is a totally inept, babbling, tyranical, idiotic, stark raving, (tell me when to stop and I'll ignore you) underhanded, lieing, backstabbing, paranoid, nazi like, bafoon AS A FACT. I can assure you I know what "I" am talking about. Hate, is putting my feelings rather mildy when taking into consideration it does not DESCRIBE by definition of the word all the feelings I have for this egomaniac dipshit of a leader I am almost but not quite ashamed to admit I voted for.
Pissed off howeve comes alot closer to the feeling I have for a total dipwad that seems to think all is well with the land above all which he surveys and that I am forced to unwittingly and blindly follow as I myself were his equal. However armed with the FACTS as I know them I am now protected from the "smoke & mirrors" his inept & mindless followers eat it up like the obideant SLAVES that they are.
As I said in another thread THOSE OPPRESSIONS no longer exist and therefore are an INVALID ARGUEMENT that you ineptly keep calling me on the carpet to explain as if you were to dense to understand it the first time around. Fear not 87GTSleeper I know your pea of a brain is a tad slow to pick up on the subtle let alone the harsh realities we all must face daily, it will grow in time and soon your testies will drop.
Pitty? Heh.. First let me state that it is not pitty I seek. I seek ACTORS to take part in what I have presented, not some sideshow freak who thinks I'll pay him his due. However, I do have a kind heart and am abliged to give up what the freak deserves in reward for his time and am ALL to happy to do so. Pitty is something I feel for the totally inept and often misguided blind who love to play follow the inept leader as the frolic merrily down the path of destruction. If anything this mad frolic has me VERY concerned, pitty is BY FAR the last thing on my mind in what I seek.
However you are entitled to your grossly fouled judgement of me and UNFORTUNATLY for the remaining citizens of the country, for that matter the entire WORLD if you continue do judge me so. You Sir are a totally mindless goose stepping bafoon who has as much credibility and brain power as a chafing dingleburry hanging from my lilly white United States of America loving hairy, foul smelling, arrogant, buttocks.
Do try to have a good day Sir.
Wow, Bill, you managed to personally attack me and call me names through 5 semi-coherent paragraphs. I would have much preferred you respond with a fact or two to back up your assertions, instead. But that's not possible, is it?
quote
Tugboat : You didn't answer the question: Who told them that? (as in where would they get THAT idea?) The liberal media??
What I meant was that I the only times I have ever heard "Iraq was behind 9-11" is when I hear someone claiming the Bush admin said it. They never did. I never heard it on the media. Not even FoxNews. Maybe you have, but I have not and I look at a lot of news sources.
Oh, and I believe 9-11 was America's cue, not just some President.
[This message has been edited by 87GTSleeper (edited 07-16-2004).]
Wow, Bill, you managed to personally attack me and call me names through 5 semi-coherent paragraphs. I would have much preferred you respond with a fact or two to back up your assertions, instead. But that's not possible, is it?
Well, on the bright side of all the fun a games is the fact that I have not wasted my breath on my alleged assertions. You however are now more fully aware of your assretions regarding me.. Atleast I would hope. Perhaps it would be prudent to defer such assertions of me in the future as you can see I am not as inept as I appear regarding said assertions.
I'm glad you were wise enough to keep you assertions to a minimum in this post and I appriciate it as much as you do. So please grab a cup of coffee and engage your mind before attempting to fiddle with mine in the future.
I said it befor3e and I'll say it again, although Bush and company didn't specifically say Iraq and Saddam was behind 9/11, they more than asserted it all over the place.
Vice President Richard Cheney on Al-Qaeda:
"We did have reporting that was public, that came out shortly after the 9/11 attack, provided by the Czech government, suggesting there had been a meeting in Prague between Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker, and a man named al-Ani (Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani), who was an Iraqi intelligence official in Prague, at the embassy there, in April of '01, prior to the 9/11 attacks. It has never been -- we've never been able to collect any more information on that. That was the one that possibly tied the two together to 9/11." Source: Transcript of Interview with Vice President Dick Cheney, Rocky Mountain News (1/9/2004).
Vice President Richard Cheney on Al-Qaeda:
"[Since September 11] We learned more and more that there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the '90s, that it involved training, for example, on BW and CW, that al-Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved. The Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al-Qaeda organization."
"On March 19, 2003, the day we invaded a country that was no threat to us, G.W. Bush sent a letter to Congress in which he stated that the war was permitted under legislation authorizing force against those who "planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."
"Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz recently admitted to an interviewer in an unguarded moment, when the threat of weapons of mass destruction was chosen as the banner to lead a march to war, it was chosen for "bureaucratic reasons," not because the danger was imminent or paramount."
"I have also determined that the use of armed force against Iraq is consistent with taking necessary action against those nations who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11." In his "Mission Accomplished" speech aboard the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln on May 1, 2003, the President boasted, "We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda."
"WASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney, anxious to defend the White House foreign policy amid ongoing violence in Iraq, stunned intelligence analysts and even members of his own administration this week by failing to dismiss a widely discredited claim: that Saddam Hussein might have played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks."
"Even before the war in Iraq, most Bush officials did not explicitly state that Iraq had a part in the attack on the United States two years ago.
But Cheney left that possibility wide open in a nationally televised interview two days ago, claiming that the administration is learning "more and more" about connections between Al Qaeda and Iraq before the Sept. 11 attacks. The statement surprised some analysts and officials who have reviewed intelligence reports from Iraq."
Dick Cheney
"now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11." Vice President Richard Cheney on Al-Qaeda:
"With respect to 9/11, of course, we've had the story that's been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohammed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we've never been able to develop anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it.
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the 'beginning of the end of America.' By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed." Source: President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003).
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more."
AN Ally of Al Queda? WMD?
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"And the United States, along with a growing coalition of nations, is resolved to take whatever action is necessary to defend ourselves and disarm the Iraqi regime. September the 11th, 2001, the American people saw what terrorists could do by turning four airplanes into weapons.
"Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses, and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other planes -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. "
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"And I also mentioned the fact that there is a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein."
Sure there is!
I wish I had time to really go find the ones I remember hearing from Ari Fleischer and news outlets featuring "experts" and "analysts" etc..
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04:54 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
I said it befor3e and I'll say it again, although Bush and company didn't specifically say Iraq and Saddam was behind 9/11, they more than asserted it all over the place.
Funny, how people selectively remember.
Nobody is making it up, it's not a source posted on some pro-lib website either.
It's the words of our President and Vice-President.
[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-16-2004).]
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05:05 PM
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
Bush wanted to go after Saddam as soon as he got into office. He tried everything he could to find a connection. How many times did he mention 911 and Iraq inthe same sentence? Like "Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained."
GL
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05:19 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
Bush wanted to go after Saddam as soon as he got into office. He tried everything he could to find a connection. How many times did he mention 911 and Iraq inthe same sentence? Like "Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained."
GL
DISCLAIMER: What you are about to read is a THEORY based on loose information but backed up by the known capabilities of our government. Being a poophouse conspiracy theorist myself I have entertained a few "off the wall ideas"... bring on the baccon.
Chainey had formed HALIBURTON and BLACKWATER long in advance of this plan and that is why he beacme Duhbyas running mate.. it was the perfect marrage. 1. Bush and Chainey had PLANS long before they got into office on invaiding Iraq, they were happy when afforeded the oppertunity by inep voters such as myself. 2. The CIA and FBI knew there were "operatives" in the states and they were planning an attack USING AIRCRAFT. 3. There was a vague idea that they were GOING to fly light aircraft into bulidings OR possibly hijack an airliner but this was the weakest attack but would STIRR the masses. 4. Bush and Co. KNEW about this plot and allowed it to happen because it would PLAY into the plan 5. Bush and Co. were STUNNED when the magnitude of the attack took place as they UNDERESTIMATED the terrorist plot BASED on weak intel. 6. The Afghan invasion was not quite part of the plan since a MAJOR attack could not be the work of the "evil empire" 7. Funds were slowly blead off and served as the "Iraq war chest" for the future invasion of Iraq. 8. They were blindsided when Chaliby failed to "play along" with the installation of a "puppet government"
There is more but like I said it's all just garbage anyway. In reality the truth is far worse than the fiction I have laid out.
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05:48 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Bush wanted to go after Saddam as soon as he got into office. He tried everything he could to find a connection. How many times did he mention 911 and Iraq inthe same sentence? Like "Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained."
GL
I knew it before he took office and I didn't know half of what I know now. You can ask my family. I told them if that man gets elected, we're going to war with Iraq no question about it.
I said it befor3e and I'll say it again, although Bush and company didn't specifically say Iraq and Saddam was behind 9/11, they more than asserted it all over the place.
Vice President Richard Cheney on Al-Qaeda:
"We did have reporting that was public, that came out shortly after the 9/11 attack, provided by the Czech government, suggesting there had been a meeting in Prague between Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker, and a man named al-Ani (Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani), who was an Iraqi intelligence official in Prague, at the embassy there, in April of '01, prior to the 9/11 attacks. It has never been -- we've never been able to collect any more information on that. That was the one that possibly tied the two together to 9/11." Source: Transcript of Interview with Vice President Dick Cheney, Rocky Mountain News (1/9/2004).
Vice President Richard Cheney on Al-Qaeda:
"[Since September 11] We learned more and more that there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the '90s, that it involved training, for example, on BW and CW, that al-Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved. The Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al-Qaeda organization."
"On March 19, 2003, the day we invaded a country that was no threat to us, G.W. Bush sent a letter to Congress in which he stated that the war was permitted under legislation authorizing force against those who "planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."
"Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz recently admitted to an interviewer in an unguarded moment, when the threat of weapons of mass destruction was chosen as the banner to lead a march to war, it was chosen for "bureaucratic reasons," not because the danger was imminent or paramount."
"I have also determined that the use of armed force against Iraq is consistent with taking necessary action against those nations who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11." In his "Mission Accomplished" speech aboard the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln on May 1, 2003, the President boasted, "We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda."
"WASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney, anxious to defend the White House foreign policy amid ongoing violence in Iraq, stunned intelligence analysts and even members of his own administration this week by failing to dismiss a widely discredited claim: that Saddam Hussein might have played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks."
"Even before the war in Iraq, most Bush officials did not explicitly state that Iraq had a part in the attack on the United States two years ago.
But Cheney left that possibility wide open in a nationally televised interview two days ago, claiming that the administration is learning "more and more" about connections between Al Qaeda and Iraq before the Sept. 11 attacks. The statement surprised some analysts and officials who have reviewed intelligence reports from Iraq."
Dick Cheney
"now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11." Vice President Richard Cheney on Al-Qaeda:
"With respect to 9/11, of course, we've had the story that's been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohammed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we've never been able to develop anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it.
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the 'beginning of the end of America.' By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed." Source: President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003).
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more."
AN Ally of Al Queda? WMD?
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"And the United States, along with a growing coalition of nations, is resolved to take whatever action is necessary to defend ourselves and disarm the Iraqi regime. September the 11th, 2001, the American people saw what terrorists could do by turning four airplanes into weapons.
"Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses, and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other planes -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. "
President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:
"And I also mentioned the fact that there is a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein."
Sure there is!
I wish I had time to really go find the ones I remember hearing from Ari Fleischer and news outlets featuring "experts" and "analysts" etc..
There is indeed evidence of connections between Al Queda and Iraq. Even the 9-11 commission confirms that. I posted links prior in this thread.
All of what you posted simply confirns what I am saying, the administration has never said Iraq was involved in 9-11. To the contrary, they have blatantly said, publicly, without "assertion", that they had NO evidence of any ties to Iraq and 9-11. The President reminding people that Iraq is a part of the war on terror and how bad it would be if Saddam decided HE would use those same tactics is not the same as saying Iraq was in on 9-11. Saddam saw that the U.S. could be dealt a mighty blow with 19 hijackers and 3 American jetliners. Saddam had a habit of sending cash to suicide bombers. Saddam had terrorist training camps with terrorists flowing through them. Simply put, we nipped it in the bud and I think that is a good thing. It could have been now or later but it was bound to happen. I really don't believe there is anything sinister going on, guys. I know you don't agree with conservative philosopy, and some of it I don't either, but instead of looking for policy flaws, you guys are tossing accusations of crimes. Trust me, if Bush is wrong on this one, you will more than get your chance to gloat. I don't believe he is, though.
I'm a Southern Conservative. Basically what that means to me is I vote based on my upbringing, my values, and my beliefs which tend to be somewhat conservative in nature. Sometimes that means Democrat, sometimes Republican. In local elections I'm probably 50/50. What I'm getting at is, I don't support Bush and this war on terror because Bush is Republican, I support him because I agree with him.
On a more mushy note, I have several liberal friends. We go at each other just like this so I hope you guys don't take anything personally. I'm not here to deride or insult anybody, just give my opinion. I prefer these conversaions to be over a frosty mug of over-priced imported beer.
I wonder what it means when you say this... "That was the one that possibly tied the two together to 9/11" To me it means "here is some of the evidence against Iraq in the involvement of 911".
I believed Cheney because they seemed to be sincere in believing there must be some involvement on Iraq's part. I am sure Saddam wasn't upset when he heard of 9/11. But now in hindsight I can see that there was really no intel on what our VP was inferring. He knew he couldn't outright say it, because that would backfire eventually, but he came as close as possible. I would even argue that the statement above is PROOF that the Bush admin wanted us to believe Iraq was part of 9/11. This is just ONE example out of literally hundreds.
Vice President Richard Cheney on Al-Qaeda:
"We did have reporting that was public, that came out shortly after the 9/11 attack, provided by the Czech government, suggesting there had been a meeting in Prague between Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker, and a man named al-Ani (Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani), who was an Iraqi intelligence official in Prague, at the embassy there, in April of '01, prior to the 9/11 attacks. It has never been -- we've never been able to collect any more information on that. That was the one that possibly tied the two together to 9/11."
Don't worry 87 no hard feelings, I understand.
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06:01 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
A double standard for the war on terror. It's ok to pre-emptivly strike Iraq on the questionable basis of WMD's but ok to let countries like Saudi Arabia who currently harbor terrorists (well they deperately search like mad at the last minute when they have a hostage held to be killed in their country), fund terrorists, and grant amnesty to terrorists.
Why is this administration being soft with Saudis?
Could it be that Bush W, and Bush H. have oil ties to the Saudi royal family? Could it be Saudis want us to attack Iraq (because it wouldn't be right for them) to benefit and have a bigger share on the oil market? Fund it with US resources and troops lives in the name of American patriotism.
The terrorists on 9/11 were almost all Saudis, Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi.
Better start asking a lot of questions. I'm doing a lot of my own research and pieces of the puzzle are all of a sudden coming together.
Believe me if this was about Kerry I would be as much outspoken about it. I don't care if half of the democratic party is involved as well, it's serious.
Yes................
And if you go back to my post you will see I said, "Good Point!" They are NEXT!
So?
What double standard?
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07:05 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
And if you go back to my post you will see I said, "Good Point!" They are NEXT!
Sorry, sure it's possible but I cannot sift through 250+ posts in this topic everytime a question like you'res comes up.
quote
Originally posted by Toddster: So?
What double standard?
A double standard for the war on terror. It's ok to pre-emptivly strike Iraq on the questionable basis of WMD's but ok to let countries like Saudi Arabia who currently harbor terrorists (well they deperately search like mad at the last minute when they have a hostage held to be killed in their country), fund terrorists, and grant amnesty to terrorists.
That double standard. And the security of our nation is affected by it.
To a lib, any criticism of Clinton AT ALL is "hate".
To a lib, any and all criticism of Bush no matter how factual or hyperbolic (including comparing him to Hitler) is "legitimate political dissent".
Ed
To a TRUE liberal, any and all criticism of a president no matter how factual or hyperbolic (including comparing him to Hitler) is "legitimate political dissent" and a time honored patriotic DUTY.
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07:19 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by 84Bill: As far as sharing a foxhole with a "Lebanese man"? NEVER!!!!!!!!
Such hatred, Bill? And you accuse others of being blind? (oh, and I only mentioned him being Christian becasue he's NOT Muslim - not to infer a Christian bias. He just happens to be Christian)
He'd likely fight to protect your rights while you'd just as soon spit on him, apparently. You think it's governments that make others in the world hate us? Our own hatred has something to do with it, too.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-16-2004).]
Such hatred, Bill? And you accuse others of being blind? (oh, and I only mentioned him being Christian becasue he's NOT Muslim - not to infer a Christian bias. He just happens to be Christian)
He'd likely fight to protect your rights while you'd just as soon spit on him, apparently. You think it's governments that make others in the world hate us? Our own hatred has something to do with it, too.
I am very surprised at your assertions and I must say that it has my ire up. However since you have demonstrated respect for me in the past I will restrain the need to berate you for dishonoring me with such accusations of perposterous nonsense.
No, not hatred. I'm getting "tired".. "irritated" if you will about putting ones heritage ABOVE their American heritage.
If you were to read about our flag you will see that NO other flag shall be placed above it. When you take the oath of citizenship you pledge you aligence to this flag. You swear that America comes first and all others come second. As American childeren it is (was at one time for me anyway) engrained into our heads that America comes first.
When someone says I am an "African American" I automatically assume they are from Lyberia and are transient Americans. If that is not the case then I view them as shape shifting camilions that will choose the color that will best suit the moment at hand. He is only my EQUAL if it serves him then is my master when it does not.
If they insist that I call them "African Americans" then I consider them insurgent invaiders with ill intent and will not trust a word they say. They are in effect an elite group that is militnt and has forsaken the very flag that they CLAIM to call theirs when in reality it is OURS and choose not to share ALL benifits and privilages EQUALLY with everyone.
However, if that same black individual were to tell me "I am an American Citizen" I can immidiatly identify them as friendly, that they UNDERSTAND the values and importance of placing first the United States of America and forsakeing all others. He is my EQUAL and I treat him as such. I honor all, of any race, color, creed, or religious denomination EQUALLY
So you see, the United States of America is full of "Americans" but some choose to be elitist and more pure than any other American by virtue of placing Africa or XXXXX before the United States of America.
There was once an elite group of people in Germany, we defeated them. Jessie Owens was not just a hero of the mement he is a hero now. The Tuskigi Airmen are my heros, to me they do not need to be African American to get my recognition or respect, American Hero or just American is fine with me and I would not TAINT the title with "African American" to make that distinction... To me they are Americans who served with distinction and Honor, there is no color to their skin but the red white and blue, it is the same color as mine.
If ALL Americans were to see it the way I do there would be no need for this crap of placing XXXXXX before American because it would not matter.
So judge me as you wish but I warn you in advance I will not take lightly to assertions of being a "hatefull" biggot or a racsist.. If I hate am amn it is because he has forsaken this country for his own. I harbor not hate but for the enemy of this country who places his own above mine and FORCES me to bow before one that is SUPPOSED to be my equal. I am not a slave to any man and I do not take orders from anyone in how I am supposed to treat an elite... Ask me for respect and I will give it if warranted, demand it and I will tell you to fornicate off!
There are no elitists in my country, we are all the same. That is how it is written in the Constitution of the United States of America. I swore to uphold it with my life if need be, so that makes me a VERY dangerous person in the eyes of my enemies.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-16-2004).]
