I changed the quote, read it again, do you see what you are saying now? There's no difference between you and the terrorists in they way that you think. (other than you supposedly fight for "democracy", although your kind of democracy (where we get executed if we oppose you) isn't really democracy in my opinion)
Just as info, Muslims aren't the ones to blame, terrorists are (just wanted to clarify that I make that difference)
We don't take hostages and kill or behead them so i don't see your point making any sense. Also i agree about the difference of musslims and terrorists.You would have to be an idiot not to.
Unless of course our government issued something called a stop loss, which keeps you in the war against your will and agreed upon term for another 18 months. Oh wait the US govt just did that didn't they. Ask those guys how patriotic they are. Isn't that kind of like the draft which isn't volunteer at all.
Then there's the calling up of soldiers who already served their tours and are now being called back because of "the fine print" which says that in a time of war you can be called back after you already served your tour.
Oh and to all you guys saying we should just kill em all.... I'm glad you aren't running the country. At least even Bush has the sense not to act like a tempermental child when it comes to killing 1000's of people.
We don't take hostages and kill or behead them so i don't see your point making any sense. Also i agree about the difference of musslims and terrorists.You would have to be an idiot not to.
My point is not about what the US does, my point is about what he wanted it to do. So in simple terms my point is: what he wants the US to do, is no different from what the terrorists do. (he will probably legitimise it saying he fights for freedom or democracy, I don't agree that fighting like that is the way a civilised (in other words democacry) country fights.)
And, as is pointed out in another thread (there are 2 parts even I think) we are all idiots or at the least there are a lot running around in this world, so you never know who thinks I might not make that difference. And as that person would be an idiot, I pointed it out beforehand to make him not look like an idiot. I actually did all idiots a service! Idiot friendly conversation!
Unless of course our government issued something called a stop loss, which keeps you in the war against your will and agreed upon term for another 18 months. Oh wait the US govt just did that didn't they. Ask those guys how patriotic they are. Isn't that kind of like the draft which isn't volunteer at all.
Then there's the calling up of soldiers who already served their tours and are now being called back because of "the fine print" which says that in a time of war you can be called back after you already served your tour.
Oh and to all you guys saying we should just kill em all.... I'm glad you aren't running the country. At least even Bush has the sense not to act like a tempermental child when it comes to killing 1000's of people.
Lets not forget about the RECALL of IRR soldiers who thought their term was done. Though they are not completely out it is a surefire indication of an impending draft.
The Army is becoming demoralized by the month, the more lies they are handed about going home on a particular date that is then pushed ahead another 6 months the more pissed off they become.
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02:21 PM
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
Militant Islamic Fundamentalist. "Terrorist" is a very overused euphanism.
Afghanistan is a tactical battle... pretty easy to understand why we are there.
My opinion: Iraq is a strategic battle... the real reason we're there is to try and create a secular government that does not tolerate them. The only reason WMD was brought up in the first place was to try to get UN support. It was never the main reason.
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02:25 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Yes... Right.. So they kill one and we kill 1000 then they kill 1000 and we kill 100,000 then they kill 100,000 and we kill 1,000,000..
Yeah George... uhhh which way do I go geroge what way do I go Duhhhhh?
I say get the freak off their lands and leave the freakin nomads alone with their sandcastles and whatever riches lie benieth. MAYBE, just MAYBE!! they will forgive our tresspasses and leave us alone.
Bill, if I thought that would work, I'd agree with you. But leaving them alone won't work. It's not that we are on their land - it's that we exist in the first place. We are the heathens that must be erradicated from the planet in their eyes.
I don't support genocide, but if you killed every Muslim in the world, there would be no Muslim extremists, now would there? No, that's obviously not the solution, but somewhere between doing nothing and genocide is where the proper course of action lies. Just staying on our side of the sandbox and trying to make nice nice won't do anything but make us appear weak in their eyes.
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02:27 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Unless of course our government issued something called a stop loss, which keeps you in the war against your will and agreed upon term for another 18 months. Oh wait the US govt just did that didn't they. Ask those guys how patriotic they are. Isn't that kind of like the draft which isn't volunteer at all.
Then there's the calling up of soldiers who already served their tours and are now being called back because of "the fine print" which says that in a time of war you can be called back after you already served your tour.
Oh and to all you guys saying we should just kill em all.... I'm glad you aren't running the country. At least even Bush has the sense not to act like a tempermental child when it comes to killing 1000's of people.
well you do understand that they agreed to this stipulation and it is not some hidden secret.I doubt they are happy with it but i don't think they are happy to have to kill people anyway.So what is your point.That they chose a dirty job and they are doing it or that you think you made some kind of point by saying that they probably don't like serving beyond what they expected? No kidding!
As far as kill them all that is extreme how about just the ones that get in the way of the bullets and bombs. Excuse me mr terrorist sir would you please recognize that while that church offers you a lot of protection it is endangering the lives of these civilians.Stop shooting while we arrange for their safety.Thanks for your cooperation we won't be but just a minute.We have some nice philipinos serving dougnuts in this tent over here while you wait.feel free to kidnap one or two of these non combatants.
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02:29 PM
fourfoot23 Member
Posts: 383 From: Orange County, CA Registered: Oct 2003
When we go to war, it should be with overwhelming force to utterly destroy the enemy as quicky and efficiently as possible, while risking as few allied lives as possible.
Completely agree with you on this, however, I think we need to finish one job before shifting priorities.
We found Saddam hiding in a mouse hole in the middle of a field but we can't seem to find Bin Laden. HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO FIND A GUY WHO NEEDS DIALISYS???!!!???
Don't get me wrong, I worked with some people who fled Iraq. They told me the things that went on over there. That guy needs killing (That's a legitimate defense in Texas, isn't it?)
But if Bush had told us, "I'm not certain if he has WMD, even if he did, there is no way he would be able to attack our shores, but he needs killing anyways" I probably wouldn't be making jokes about how hee looks like a monkey. And if he stepped up like Tony Blair and said, "I was mistaken, sorry" I'd probably vote for him again.
Fact is, he won't do any of that because he doesn't think much of the majority of the American people. He will focus on promoting fear because that's what people respond to...
This election will be truly interesting. From what I understand, no war-time president has ever been elected out of office... and no president has ever been re-elected when the fuel prices went crazy on his watch.
Either way, one of these "myths?" will be debunked.
Militant Islamic Fundamentalist. "Terrorist" is a very overused euphanism.
Afghanistan is a tactical battle... pretty easy to understand why we are there.
My opinion: Iraq is a strategic battle... the real reason we're there is to try and create a secular government that does not tolerate them. The only reason WMD was brought up in the first place was to try to get UN support. It was never the main reason.
Very well put, IMO.
Oh, MontrealMike, the United States of America will always reserve the right to act unilaterally to protect and defend herself if I have anything to do with it. I will never allow my country's security to depend on the whims a nation like France. No offense to my Canadian friends but MontrealMike, you have lived under the umbrella of protection and security of the U.S. for your entire life. It's sad that you have no concept of what it takes for us, as a nation to provide that. A weaker U.S. is a weaker Canada.
This election will be truly interesting. From what I understand, no war-time president has ever been elected out of office... and no president has ever been re-elected when the fuel prices went crazy on his watch.
Either way, one of these "myths?" will be debunked.
Here's a couple more I heard, I haven't checked them for accuracy, though:
No Senator has unseated an incumbent president and no president has been re-elected with an approval rate of less than 50% in an election year. If accurate, one of these will have to be broken, too.
Oh, MontrealMike, the United States of America will always reserve the right to act unilaterally to protect and defend herself if I have anything to do with it. I will never allow my country's security to depend on the whims a nation like France. No offense to my Canadian friends but MontrealMike, you have lived under the umbrella of protection and security of the U.S. for your entire life. It's sad that you have no concept of what it takes for us, as a nation to provide that. A weaker U.S. is a weaker Canada.
Same ole same ole. Of course we have the right to defend ourselves.. But thats the point we were not defending anything, we were solely on the offense. And please keep the "fighting for freedom" BS to yourself. Iraqi's do not hate us for being heathens, and even if they did they had no abilit to attack us. Its all a bunch of cliches and rhetoric fed to you by your conservative religious whacko base. I work with muslims EVERY day, there was one behind me less than 5 minutes ago. I talk about these issues from time to time with some of my friends here, and I can tell you that until you open your ears and eyes to other peoples' points of view you will keep believing only what others just like you tell you, or what leaders want you to believe so they can control you.
But leaving them alone won't work. It's not that we are on their land - it's that we exist in the first place.
BULL FREAKING SHINOLA!!
My father went to many Arab nations and not once did he ever have a problem. My uncle LIVED in Iran for 5 years and was there during the overthrow of the shaw (sp)
The BOTH were in Tripoly for 6 months in 87 after the US bombed the freaking hello! out of Kadafi
So don't ASSUME you know what they hate about us Americans because they don't hate us in general BUT THEY freaking DISPISE our governemnt!!
9/11 was NOT an attack against the "American People" it was against the very CORRUPTED greed driven money machine that our GOVERNEMNT THRIVES ON called commerce.. It shutdown wall st., and caused CHAOS in the finincial sector..
The "terrorists" you think are so hell bent on killing American could not be further from the truth. They struck at the very heart of corruption in the is country.. GREED and the DISHONORABLE PIGS that mercilessly beat the poor into the ground ans squeeze the very life out of them.
So don't try to pull that WOOL over my eyes.. My father has a (sacred) "desert flower" from Libia to prove my claim he was there.
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02:52 PM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16189 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
My father went to many Arab nations and not once did he ever have a problem. My uncle LIVED in Iran for 5 years and was there during the overthrow of the shaw (sp)
The BOTH were in Tripoly for 6 months in 87 after the US bombed the freaking hello! out of Kadafi
So don't ASSUME you know what they hate about us Americans because they don't hate us in general BUT THEY freaking DISPISE our governemnt!!
9/11 was NOT an attack against the "American People" it was against the very CORRUPTED greed driven money machine that our GOVERNEMNT THRIVES ON called commerce.. It shutdown wall st., and caused CHAOS in the finincial sector..
The "terrorists" you think are so hell bent on killing American could not be further from the truth. They struck at the very heart of corruption in the is country.. GREED and the DISHONORABLE PIGS that mercilessly beat the poor into the ground ans squeeze the very life out of them.
So don't try to pull that WOOL over my eyes.. My father has a (sacred) "desert flower" from Libia to prove my claim he was there.
wow they sound like the good guys.Regular robin hoods.
wow they sound like the good guys.Regular robin hoods.
Of sorts, there are many of these "Robin Hoods" in America who fully undestand what honor is.
Believe it or not there are MANY more robin hoods in the Arab world than there are American in the entire world. They (Arabs) KISS the sacred ground several times a day in praise to their god.
How many times a day do we Americans bend over and praise the ground? Damn near every day too but we get the shaft for it too because our god is green! The Arabs will not tolorate such behavior, not physically nor mentally.
You cant fool with a foolish man, it's just foolish to think you can fool him. Yet our INEPT government tries and tries and it pisses them off to no end... rather till they kill the evil and take their own lives to ensure it gets done if need be..
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-15-2004).]
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03:08 PM
fourfoot23 Member
Posts: 383 From: Orange County, CA Registered: Oct 2003
wow they sound like the good guys.Regular robin hoods.
He's right though. If it were a body count they were after, they would have waited until mid day when the offices would be full.
What fires them up is our foreign policy... The one that funded Saddams war machine then turned around and labeled him a menace. The same policy that prompted the Kurds to revolt during the whole Kuwait ordeal and then we just sat back and watched Saddam exterminate them for their insolence.
Our government has done this kind of thing for years. If you lived over there, you'd be thinking the same thing.
He's right though. If it were a body count they were after, they would have waited until mid day when the offices would be full.
What fires them up is our foreign policy... The one that funded Saddams war machine then turned around and labeled him a menace. The same policy that prompted the Kurds to revolt during the whole Kuwait ordeal and then we just sat back and watched Saddam exterminate them for their insolence.
Our government has done this kind of thing for years. If you lived over there, you'd be thinking the same thing.
DAMN RIGHT!! You hit the nail DIRECTLY on the head.
Plus for you!!
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03:14 PM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16189 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
If i lived there i'd be busting my ass to move over here. or If i lived there i'd be leading a revolt against the government. or If i lived there i would have been eliminated because i wouldn't put up with that crap. or I don't live there and all i care about is my country first!
I see their perspective and i think it should be crushed.
maybe they just hit the twin towers at that time cause it just worked out that way.Maybe we should give them a phucking medal for being so considerate.I'm sure those people that lost their loved ones feel comfort in knowing that it was just a symbol to get their point across and their deaths were not the real goal. Far as im concerned id like to line those bastards up in a row so id use fewer bullets.Inflict some terror in them. Phuckers killed those people and thats all there is to it.Your justification makes me angry and sick.
Down with capitolism. or we will cut your heads off one at a time
Same ole same ole. Of course we have the right to defend ourselves.. But thats the point we were not defending anything, we were solely on the offense.
Are we not losing enough people for your taste? I mean, 3000 at one slap was pretty significant. The object of being on the offensive is not to take casualties at home. It's called taking the fight to the enemy. We essentially said, "You want to kill Americans, we'll send you some. Careful, these are armed." I know it sounds harsh but better those bombs going off in Iraq than here. Speaking of Iraq, the best way to defeat "terrorism" is to promote democracy. You don't destroy a whole religion of people, you offer them a better life.
quote
And please keep the "fighting for freedom" BS to yourself. Iraqi's do not hate us for being heathens, and even if they did they had no abilit to attack us. Its all a bunch of cliches and rhetoric fed to you by your conservative religious whacko base.
I think "fighting for freedom" is exactly right. Name one war, except Vietnam, in which the U.S. has participated in the 20th century that did not end with great numbers of people being freed from tyrants. The same can be said for Canada.
Iraq did not have the ability to attack us? What? 19 Muslims found a way so I'm pretty darn sure Iraq could have and eventually would have.
Interesting how someone who doesn't agree with you is automatically a "conservative religious whacko". Actually, I'm not religious but I have enough respect for those who are not to think to of them as "whackos".
quote
I work with muslims EVERY day, there was one behind me less than 5 minutes ago. I talk about these issues from time to time with some of my friends here, and I can tell you that until you open your ears and eyes to other peoples' points of view you will keep believing only what others just like you tell you, or what leaders want you to believe so they can control you.
Yay. I have Muslim next-door neighbors. They are nice people, so what?
I hear different points of view all the time. Some I agree with, some I don't. Either way, it's all me.
Unless of course our government issued something called a stop loss, which keeps you in the war against your will and agreed upon term for another 18 months. Oh wait the US govt just did that didn't they. Ask those guys how patriotic they are. Isn't that kind of like the draft which isn't volunteer at all.
Then there's the calling up of soldiers who already served their tours and are now being called back because of "the fine print" which says that in a time of war you can be called back after you already served your tour.
Oh and to all you guys saying we should just kill em all.... I'm glad you aren't running the country. At least even Bush has the sense not to act like a tempermental child when it comes to killing 1000's of people.
Stop Loss.....yep, that is what they did, but only in a certain few fields. Those fields that are truly needed in this war. If Clinton wouldn't have gotten rid of the third largest military then there wouldn't be a problem. How many of those soldiers and airmen wanted to stay in but with Clinton downsizing the military it made it impossible for them to stay, they got thrown out. Sorry, but we don't need you. Bye, bye. Now we are met with the task of having fewer military people, who aren't as qualified as they were, upgrading to the next level because they were there longer but really don't have the skills to do the work, having to handle so much more than they would have had to if Clinton didn't get rid of all the other qualified people.
And by the way, those people who signed on the dotted line before coming into the military knew before hand that they could be recalled. You know what, it's a big azz decision. They should have taken it that way, you never know what will happen in this world. So who are all of these soldiers that are bitching? In my opinion they have no Honor. They signed up for the military, they knew they would have to fight if war broke out and now that it has broken out they want to run. Well, my husband has been in the military for 24 years and you know what, he's not running. He elected to stay in a fight the cause. He can't leave those airmen to fend for themselves. The ones he put on the plane to Baghdad himself. The ones that look up to him. He is changing weapon systems in the near future and he will be over there for 4 months at at time, livng in tents, landing on roadways, dropping of soldiers and picking them up. I for one am proud to be the wife of a military man. A military man with HONOR, do you know what those words mean? Someone that is willing to fight for your country, in order to keep you safe from harm. Taking the battle somewhere else so it isn't on our home turf. Living away from his family, willing to die for you freaking people, but you know what he doesn't care. It is the honor that keeps him there. I'm tired of the whiny azz people that wont do the job that they signed on the dotted line for. Hell, Pat Tillman, who had it all, gave his life for a cause he believed in. Now that is a true hero. And you know what ConneticutFiero, I know you think I'm a piece of sh!t for running, but I came to grips with my husband leaving me and my girls for the sake of this country. I just wish everyone else could know what the hell being in the military is like, living the life. I am proud of everyone who has served, is or will be serving. Grrrrrr......sorry you all just hit a touchy subject with me.
For those of you who are seeing some light in what I'm saying, just think for a second about 9/11 and it's fallout.
During that time I sought the green god and I was getting my life in order (for a change) I was to damn busy to realize that we STILL had soldiers in Saudi Arabia. I was so damn busy that I didn't have time to even watch the nightly news, 60 minutes OR any other documenteries like frontline and and Nova to realize that OBL was PISSED OFF about not just our soldiers being there but WOMEN soldiers!! This ENRAGED him!!
It wasn't until I lost my job that I had the time to fut together a very COMPLEX jigsaw puzzel call American Government.
So when the opportunity arose to strike back OBL did so.. Mogadishu, various AMERICAN embassies, USS Cole, 9/11, etc., etc.
Lets look at the "problem" on a much smaller scale and MUCH closer to home.
The militants U.S. Postal workers "going postal" (fired and lost all benefits) Erin Cleabold (Kid that was beaten down then stood up and kicked ass) Tim McVeigh (was he really that MAD? If so WHY?) Ruby Ridge (government) Dave Koresh (was he really a mad man or was it media hype to mask governmental intrusion?)
I see a pattern and a song says it best when "Jeremy spoke in class today." He killed ever damn one of thos freaking asshuls that picked on him relentlessly and endlessly!
We as Americans need to wake up and stop feeding on all the media BULLCRAP! and look at WHY thigs happen and not expect it to be cut, gutted, cooked and served with a freaking smile at 6:00 sharp.
Did you know it's Erin Cleabolds parents FAULT? It's the gun makers FAULT. It's Erins FAULT. It's the musics FAULT. It's the marajuanas FAULT. It's the action movies FAULT. AND ON AND ON AND ON
But do you know who's fault iy really is?
OURS!! Because when daddy comes home drunk and beats the crap out of mommy the son goes to school and runs AMUCK beats on Jeremy and the teachers CANT STOP IT
When daddy is more interested in work than his kids they gather together and become HULIGANS and whoop on Jeremy and THE TEACHERS CAN'T STOP IT
When soccer dad berates his kid in front of his soccer squad for missing a goal then later WHOOPS the hell out of Jeremy and THE TEACHERS CANT STOP IT
When mom & dad are too busy to take care of Jeremy because they are enslaved to the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR and THE TEACHERS CANT STOP IT
WE ARE THE TEACHERS!!! We MUST take responsibility before it's to late and STOP BLAMING EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE ELSE BUT OURSELVES WHEN IT IS TOO LATE!!!!!
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 07-15-2004).]
Same ole same ole. Of course we have the right to defend ourselves.. But thats the point we were not defending anything, we were solely on the offense.
quote
Are we not losing enough people for your taste? I mean, 3000 at one slap was pretty significant. The object of being on the offensive is not to take casualties at home. It's called taking the fight to the enemy. We essentially said, "You want to kill Americans, we'll send you some. Careful, these are armed." I know it sounds harsh but better those bombs going off in Iraq than here. Speaking of Iraq, the best way to defeat "terrorism" is to promote democracy. You don't destroy a whole religion of people, you offer them a better life.
So you still believe Iraq has any connection to 9/11.
Here is a dem -vs- rep debate:
dem: Why do we start wars with countries that aren't threatening to attack us?
rep: To defend our freedom.
dem: But we already have freedom, and we didn't need to defend it from anyone.
And by the way, those people who signed on the dotted line before coming into the military knew before hand that they could be recalled. You know what, it's a big azz decision. They should have taken it that way, you never know what will happen in this world. So who are all of these soldiers that are bitching? In my opinion they have no Honor. They signed up for the military, they knew they would have to fight if war broke out and now that it has broken out they want to run. Well, my husband has been in the military for 24 years and you know what, he's not running. He elected to stay in a fight the cause. He can't leave those airmen to fend for themselves. The ones he put on the plane to Baghdad himself. The ones that look up to him. He is changing weapon systems in the near future and he will be over there for 4 months at at time, livng in tents, landing on roadways, dropping of soldiers and picking them up. I for one am proud to be the wife of a military man. A military man with HONOR, do you know what those words mean? Someone that is willing to fight for your country, in order to keep you safe from harm. Taking the battle somewhere else so it isn't on our home turf. Living away from his family, willing to die for you freaking people, but you know what he doesn't care. It is the honor that keeps him there. I'm tired of the whiny azz people that wont do the job that they signed on the dotted line for. Hell, Pat Tillman, who had it all, gave his life for a cause he believed in. Now that is a true hero. And you know what ConneticutFiero, I know you think I'm a piece of sh!t for running, but I came to grips with my husband leaving me and my girls for the sake of this country. I just wish everyone else could know what the hell being in the military is like, living the life. I am proud of everyone who has served, is or will be serving. Grrrrrr......sorry you all just hit a touchy subject with me.
I've said my peace.....I'll go now.
I, for one, truly appreciate your husband's service. I was in the Navy and deployments were difficult on my wife so I know where you are coming from.
I enjoyed your post. Yes, everyone who enters the service is well aware they can be recalled. This is nothing new but it is being treated by the media like it is so a lot of people are showing their ignorance of military matters. Once again, good post.
If i lived there i'd be busting my ass to move over here. or If i lived there i'd be leading a revolt against the government. or If i lived there i would have been eliminated because i wouldn't put up with that crap. or I don't live there and all i care about is my country first!
I see their perspective and i think it should be crushed.
maybe they just hit the twin towers at that time cause it just worked out that way.Maybe we should give them a phucking medal for being so considerate.I'm sure those people that lost their loved ones feel comfort in knowing that it was just a symbol to get their point across and their deaths were not the real goal. Far as im concerned id like to line those bastards up in a row so id use fewer bullets.Inflict some terror in them. Phuckers killed those people and thats all there is to it.Your justification makes me angry and sick.
Down with capitolism. or we will cut your heads off one at a time
You are an odd duck
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04:14 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
The only reason WMD was brought up in the first place was to try to get UN support. It was never the main reason.
I don't know that I agree with this. I understand your point but I genuinely felt fear pre-9/11 that at some point in the near future a terrorist would get his hands on the Bomb. And all the intelligence suggested that that was coming sooner rather than later. We now know that the intel was less than impressive. But if you had the info the President had (in addition to the benefits of a stable democracy in the Mid East on the line), seems to me the decision is obvious.
I think the war in Iraq was designed to serve a multitude of goals not the least of which was to disarm Saddam.
At this point I don't evven care why. I have never felt as much pride to be an American as I do now. I now know what my grandparent's generation felt during WW2.
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04:20 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Are we not losing enough people for your taste? I mean, 3000 at one slap was pretty significant. The object of being on the offensive is not to take casualties at home. It's called taking the fight to the enemy. We essentially said, "You want to kill Americans, we'll send you some. Careful, these are armed." I know it sounds harsh but better those bombs going off in Iraq than here. Speaking of Iraq, the best way to defeat "terrorism" is to promote democracy. You don't destroy a whole religion of people, you offer them a better life.
Originally posted by Toddster: At this point I don't evven care why. I have never felt as much pride to be an American as I do now. I now know what my grandparent's generation felt during WW2.
No Tood. I fear you are feeling what the Nazis felt. I mean you no disrespect Todd but the American Government has gotten VERY VERY OPPRESIVE compaired to the way they treated your grandfather. Your grandfather FOUGHT oppresion you are fighting FOR it if you support this current trend.
I want no part of it Todd, if anything I will fight oppression, I will fight for freedom, I will fight FOR the Constitution of the United States of America and I will pledge my aliegence to the flag of the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation, (under god if you must jam it down my throat), indivisible, with Liberty and JUSTICE for all.
So you still believe Iraq has any connection to 9/11.
I never belived Iraq had a connection to 9-11. I'm not aware of anybody who thought that after seeing the evidence. It has been proven that they had terrorist connections, and sought to do us harm. We could have waited to see if 3000 or more U.S. civilians would be killed. I'm glad we didn't wait. Terrorist camps have been found in Iraq, complete with passenger jet cut-aways for hijack training. I'm glad we didn't wait. Prior to 9-11, we knew Saddams army was no match for us and we did not worry much about his antics. After 9-11 we saw that other ways in which we could be seriously hit, no army needed. The rest of the world saw this as well, including Saddam. He already had the motive and through his terrorist connections, he now saw had the means to do some real damage. I'm glad we didn't wait.
[This message has been edited by 87GTSleeper (edited 07-15-2004).]
Nobody is saying we shouldn't have done nothing about Saddam. He needed to go.
Clinton made mistakes, he's openly admited and regreted that now looking back he could have done better. I wish Bush could say the same.
But where is the real threat? Bin Laden and Al-queda should be priority #1. You have no clue the hate I have for that man or would do to him or anybody associated with him if I seen em.
Oh, MontrealMike, the United States of America will always reserve the right to act unilaterally to protect and defend herself if I have anything to do with it. I will never allow my country's security to depend on the whims a nation like France. No offense to my Canadian friends but MontrealMike, you have lived under the umbrella of protection and security of the U.S. for your entire life. It's sad that you have no concept of what it takes for us, as a nation to provide that. A weaker U.S. is a weaker Canada.
I have no problem with that but ....its not DEFENDING whats happening.........DEFENDING would have been seeking retaliation against MAYBE Saudi Arabia .....hrmmmmm most of the hi-jackers were saudi .....HEY well lets ATTACK Iraq instead because Attack and IRAQ ryme and because Saddam tried to kill my father and I want revenge.....I think thats a good reason ....what about Afganistan....hrm...well I don't want my real intentions obvious so lets at least liberate them from the Taliban ......and get those terrorists that are in hiding their....hrm..(keep in mind terrorists are probably in every country in the world). I am over exagerating again point being that I and other truly don't believe RETIALIATION from 911 was the reason behind the IRAQ war. Sure Saddam was a bad guy but he SHOWED NO HARM against the USA so why interfere.....if all the aliances along with the UN wanted to bomb his ass along with the USA by all means do it/
[This message has been edited by MontrealMike (edited 07-15-2004).]
IP: Logged
04:35 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
No Tood. I fear you are feeling what the Nazis felt. I mean you no disrespect Todd but the American Government has gotten VERY VERY OPPRESIVE compaired to the way they treated your grandfather. Your grandfather FOUGHT oppresion you are fighting FOR it if you support this current trend.
I hope Todd's grandfather wasn't black or you will look like an idiot, Bill.
Let's see, when Todd's grandfather was in WWII, black people were second or third class citizens, women were hardly exitent in the professional workplace and one would NEVER speak publicly about being gay.
Yeah Bill, those were the good old days to you, I guess. Less oprpessive and all.
IP: Logged
04:38 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
So you still believe Iraq has any connection to 9/11.
NOT 9/11!
Jeez you guys are pitiful. Iraq funded, trained, sheltered, and endorsed state sponsored terrorism and teh record is CLEAR on that. There is no evidence to suggest Saddam was involved in 9/11 and NO ONE has said otherwise. Get your BS straight will ya?
It's Clinton all over again:
Pubs: "So lying is OK"?
Libs: "All you guys can focus on is Sex".
Pubs: "I'm asking if it is OK for the President to lie to a Grand Jury, in a Deposition under Oath, and to the American People for personal gain".
Libs: "Sex, Sex, Sex".
Pubs: "Again, I am not interested in the President's sex life. I just want to know if you think it is OK for the highest ranking Law Official in the Government to lie in a court of law".
Libs: "You discust me! Do you want pictures of her going down on him? Is that what you want you closet pervert"!?
Pubs: "Pictures"?
Libs: "THERE! You see? He admits it! He just wants to see the President doing the nasty! Doesn't he have a right to a private life"?
Pubs: "Uhh, OK. Maybe I misworded my question about lying under Oath. Let's try this...Can the President say something that is not accurate and claim that it is.....
Libs: "ARE YOU TRYING TO INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE? Stop patronizing me you arrogant-reactionary-women-in-the-kitchen-death-penalty-pollute-all-the-rivers-right-wing-facsist sexaphobic freak!
Pubs: ".........................yes, but is it OK for the President to lie under oath"?
Libs: "STOP changing the subject you loud mouth arrogant ass-wipe. Just answer the question."
Pubs: "Which question was that"?
Libs: "Don't get cute. You know which one I mean...Do you want to see the President's Penis or not"?
Pubs: "I REALLY REALLY don't!" I just want to know if lying under oath is OK.
Libs: "YES YOU DO. YOU ARE LYING!! So smart guy, why should we trust a Prosecutor who has been PROVEN to be a liar? Lying is a crime isn't it?"
Pubs: "Under oath it is".
Libs: "So you ADMIT to being a liar. I have nothing further to say to a LIAR like you. This conversation is over"!
Pubs: .............................."Anybody got any Excedrin"?
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-15-2004).]
Hey George, show me evidence Iraq is link to 9/11.
I suggest you forward it to the oval office.
How about reading a few posts up where I say, "I never believed Iraq had a connection to 9-11. I'm not aware who thought that after seeeing the evidence".
Once again, open your eyes.
IP: Logged
04:41 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
I don't know that I agree with this. I understand your point but I genuinely felt fear pre-9/11 that at some point in the near future a terrorist would get his hands on the Bomb. And all the intelligence suggested that that was coming sooner rather than later. We now know that the intel was less than impressive. But if you had the info the President had (in addition to the benefits of a stable democracy in the Mid East on the line), seems to me the decision is obvious.
I think the war in Iraq was designed to serve a multitude of goals not the least of which was to disarm Saddam.
At this point I don't evven care why. I have never felt as much pride to be an American as I do now. I now know what my grandparent's generation felt during WW2.
I agree there were a multitude of reasons/goals, including a genuine fear/concern over Saddam supplying terrorist in the future. I still think setting up a secular government with hopes others would follow suit was #1. That goal seems to pre-date any of this. We supported the Shaw in Iran. We even supported Saddam at one point (for all the bad his government did, it was secular). We even support the House of Saud (not democratic, but not theocratic either).
I never belived Iraq had a connection to 9-11. I'm not aware of anybody who thought that after seeing the evidence. It has been proven that they had terrorist connections, and sought to do us harm. We could have waited to see if 3000 or more U.S. civilians would be killed. I'm glad we didn't wait. Terrorist camps have been found in Iraq, complete with passenger jet cut-aways for hijack training. I'm glad we didn't wait. Prior to 9-11, we knew Saddams army was no match for us and we did not worry much about his antics. After 9-11 we saw that other ways in which we could be seriously hit, no army needed. The rest of the world saw this as well, including Saddam. He already had the motive and through his terrorist connections, he now saw had the means to do some real damage. I'm glad we didn't wait.
Wow you really don't research what you talk about do you? Show me an Al Queda or other terrorist training camp in Iraq that did harm to the US. Wait there is none. The training camp you are referring to was Ansar Al Islam. Which was not really tied to Al Queda.
"Ansar's enemies — and its terrorist activities — were directed first against its fellow Kurds, who were not sufficiently Islamic for Ansar's taste, and then against the Saddam regime. Given these rather parochial concerns, you wouldn't think Ansar al-Islam would even rise to the notice of a superpower. And yet..."
.............................."Anybody got any Excedrin"?
