I should know better, but I just find it hard to believe that in less than a normal 8 hour work day this thread has gotten to over 4 pages of the same ole' squabbling!
I should know better, but I just find it hard to believe that in less than a normal 8 hour work day this thread has gotten to over 4 pages of the same ole' squabbling!
Nothing to see here, move along people.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-14-2004).]
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05:44 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
ANYone, who believe's what Michael Moore say's, said, or is going to say, is a friggen morron.
Don't for a second think that if some of the members on here had the resources, or rather the talent, to make a movie that swings totally in the other direction, that they woudln't. They would in half a second, and they would applaud everyone who agreed with it. So I don't see the point of that comment.
I guess Canadians have no control of their own destiny and depend on decisions made by US for them to survive. I know our politics have World wide effects, it doesn't matter who is in office, but if we go to war it doesn't mean that Canada has to be involved. They could just hang back like France, Germany, and Russia did.
No, but we are your biggest trading partner, not to mention neighbours. When you guys go mental, we look bad to the rest of the world too..
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06:23 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Really! You accept some people liking Nader? Or are you just trying to push the Republican agenda to steer votes away from John Kerry? I happen to agree with Nader on most issues, not all by any means, but he's right most of the time.
Bush, where do I begin. The fact is Bush talks like a moderate republican but acts like a religious conservative. He just opened our national parks to logging and un did all the hard work to preserve them, he un did all the hard work to force polluting companies to install scrubbers to help clean the air and water, he stands in the way of critical stem cell research, he proposed a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to stop gay marriages, he cut veterans benefits, he signed a bill into law that allows companies to stop paying overtime to white collar employees, he helped reclassify McDonalds jobs as "manufacturing", he led us into war with no evidence, incorrect evidence, or lied to us, he cut the Dept. of Env Protection's budget, he awarded his vice presidents "former" company a no contest contract worth billions of dollars, he let the energy lobbyists write the energy policy for the US, then he and Cheney opposed the release of the transcripts from those meetings, Bush opposed a congressional investigation into the happennings on 9/11, he opposed an independent investigation into 9/11, he tells us nothing in news conferences which happen to be the least of any US president EVER, nearly every member of his cabinet has interests in oil as he himself does, should I continue???
FU........DGE.
A nice long reply and the computer has a brian freeze.
ugh, another time. gotta run.
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06:26 PM
PFF
System Bot
fourfoot23 Member
Posts: 383 From: Orange County, CA Registered: Oct 2003
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Bush, where do I begin. The fact is Bush talks like a moderate republican but acts like a religious conservative. He just opened our national parks to logging and un did all the hard work to preserve them, he un did all the hard work to force polluting companies to install scrubbers to help clean the air and water, he stands in the way of critical stem cell research, he proposed a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to stop gay marriages, he cut veterans benefits, he signed a bill into law that allows companies to stop paying overtime to white collar employees, he helped reclassify McDonalds jobs as "manufacturing", he led us into war with no evidence, incorrect evidence, or lied to us, he cut the Dept. of Env Protection's budget, he awarded his vice presidents "former" company a no contest contract worth billions of dollars, he let the energy lobbyists write the energy policy for the US, then he and Cheney opposed the release of the transcripts from those meetings, Bush opposed a congressional investigation into the happennings on 9/11, he opposed an independent investigation into 9/11, he tells us nothing in news conferences which happen to be the least of any US president EVER, nearly every member of his cabinet has interests in oil as he himself does, should I continue???
I wonder if these would be considered half-truths?
I heard on the radio this morning that Tony Blair announced he is accepting reposibility for all erronious intel leading into all this crap.
Kinda balsy for a guy with so many people nipping at his a$$ to stand up and say, "... uh... my bad..."
I wonder if GW might be able to step up to the plate too...
“Any mistakes made should not be laid at the door of our intelligence and security community,”
“They (intelligence) do a tremendous job for our country. I accept full personal responsibility for the way the issue was presented and therefore for any errors made,” he said.
I was exagerating obviously to gate my point across considering he hasn't put any iraqi's in oven's and has not YET started WW3 but if this guy remains as President I can easily see him as the instigator!
Exaggeration or not, comparing someone to Hitler is a hateful thing to do.
People on the left were insistent that Ronald Reagan was going to start WW3. Reagan did not start WW3.
I agree with <EDIT> Trailboss </edit> tho. When someone from a foreign country compares my President to Hitler, I stop listening.
Tom Brokaw: "I do worry about young people going and seeing that film and seeing it as gospel." Ted Koppel: "It's a terriffic piece of entertainment. There are even some interesting facts in it, but it is to the documentary what 'JFK' was to history." Also Ted Koppel: "My concern is that this is not to be taken as journalism.
It's a polemic; it's carefully constructed to make Pres. Bush look bad. Moore has admitted that the whole purpose of the film is to help the Democrats de-elect Bush in November.
Ed
[This message has been edited by edhering (edited 07-14-2004).]
Originally posted by Toddster: Answer a question for me:
Halliburton gets a NO-BID award for war reparation services; 77 Billion is spent on a war in a Muslim Country in a Pre-emptive attack; The reasons for war later prove to be questionable.
Do you impeach the President? Yes or no?
YES impeach him. Sadly there are not enough votes to convict.
Ed
PS Do I win something <EDIT> if I mention that you were talking about Clinton? </EDIT>
[This message has been edited by edhering (edited 07-14-2004).]
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07:35 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
From an email I received today. I know you will not like the source.
Political Briefing National Federation of Republican Women Vol. 2, Briefing No. 12 u July 12, 2004
________________________________
The Nine Lies of Fahrenheit 9/11
Fahrenheit Lie #1
▪ National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice is depicted in the movie telling a reporter, “Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.”
The scene deceptively shows the Administration directly blaming Saddam and his regime for the attacks on 9/11 by taking her comments out of context. Now read the entire statement made by Ms. Rice to the reporter:
“Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It’s not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11. But if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that led people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.” (Interview, CBS News, 11/28/03)
Fahrenheit Lie #2
▪ In the film, Moore leads viewers to believe that members of bin Laden’s family were allowed to exit the country after the attacks without questioning by authorities.
The September 11th commission, on the other hand, reported that 22 of the 26 people on the flight that took most of the bin Laden family out of the country were interviewed and found to be innocent of suspicion. (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
The commission reported that “each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure.”
Fahrenheit Lie #3
▪ Moore claims that James Bath, a friend of President Bush from his time with the Texas Air National Guard, might have funneled bin Laden money to an unsuccessful Bush oil-drilling firm called Arbusto Energy.
Bill Allison, managing editor for the Center for Public Integrity (an independent watchdog group in Washington, D.C.), on the other hand, said, “We looked into bin Laden money going to Arbusto, and we never found anything to back that up.” (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
Fahrenheit Lie #4
▪ The movie claims that the Bush administration “supported closing veterans hospitals.”
“The Department of Veterans Affairs did propose closing seven hospitals in areas with declining populations where the hospitals were underutilized, and whose veterans could be served by other hospitals.” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/, Accessed 07/11/04)
But Moore’s film fails to mention that the department also proposed building new hospitals in areas where needs were growing, and also proposed building blind rehabilitation centers and spinal cord injury centers (News Release, Department of Veterans Affairs, www.va.gov, 10/24/03)
Fahrenheit Lie #5
▪ Conspiracy theories abound about the reasons for the War on Terror, but none is more outlandish than the one propagandized in Moore’s film: that the Afghan war was fought solely to enable the Unocal company to build an oil pipeline (the plan for which was abandoned by the company in 1998).
Moore “suggests that one of the first official acts of Afghan President Hamid Karzai … was to help seal a deal for … Unocal to build an oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean. It alleges that Karzai had been a Unocal consultant.” (emphasis added) (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
Unocal spokesman, Barry Lane, says unequivocally, “Karzai was never, in any capacity, an employee, consultant or a consultant of a consultant,” and Unocal never had a plan to build a Caspian Sea pipeline. (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
Moore mentions that the Taliban visited Texas while President Bush was governor to discuss a potential project with Unocal.
While Moore implies that then-Gov. Bush met with the Taliban, no such meeting occurred. The Taliban delegation did, however, meet with the Clinton Administration on this visit. (Matt Labash, “Un-Moored From Reality; Fahrenheit 9/11 Connects Dots That Aren’t There,” Weekly Standard, July 5-July 12 Issue)
Fahrenheit Lie #6
▪ Even readily available figures are exaggerated for effect in Fahrenheit 9/11. The claims have a basis in reality, making them believable, but are false nonetheless.
In the film, Moore asks Craig Unger, author of “House of Bush, House of Saud,” “How much money do the Saudis have invested in America, roughly?” to which Unger responds, “Uh, I’ve heard figures as high as $860 billion.”
The Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy reports that worldwide Saudi investment approximated $700 billion – a figure much lower than Unger alleges the Saudi government to have invested in the U.S. (Tanya C. Hsu, Institute For Research: Middle Eastern Policy, “The United States Must Not Neglect Saudi Arabian Investment,” www.irmep.org, Accessed 07/11/04)
The Institute reports that 60 percent of that $700 billion – roughly $420 billion, less than half of what Unger “heard” – was actually invested in the United States by the Saudi government.
Fahrenheit Lie #7
▪ “Moore’s film suggests that (President) Bush has close family ties to the bin Laden family – principally through (President) Bush’s father’s relationship with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm.
“The president’s father, George H.W. Bush, was a senior adviser to the Carlyle Group’s Asian affiliate until recently; members of the bin Laden family – who own one of Saudi Arabia’s biggest construction firms – had invested $2 million in a Carlyle Group fund. Bush Sr. and the bin Ladens have since severed ties with the Carlyle Group, which in any case has a bipartisan roster of partners, including Bill Clinton’s former SEC chairman Arthur Levitt.
“The movie quotes author Dan Briody claiming that the Carlyle Group ‘gained’ from September 11 because it owned United Defense, a military contractor. Carlyle Group spokesman Chris Ullman notes that United Defense holds a special distinction among U.S. defense contractors that is not mentioned in Moore’s movie: the firm’s $11 billion Crusader artillery rocket system developed for the U.S. Army is one of the only weapons systems canceled by the Bush administration.” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/, Accessed 07/11/04)
“There is another famous investor in Carlyle whom Moore does not reveal: George Soros. But the fact that the anti-Bush billionaire [Soros] has invested in Carlyle would detract from Moore’s simplistic conspiracy theory.” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/, Accessed 07/11/04)
Fahrenheit Lie #8
▪ Not revealing relevant facts is dishonest enough. But to paint the Bush Administration as sympathetic and friendly to the Taliban prior to September 11, is not only dishonest, but maliciously so.
Moore shows film of a March 2001 visit to the United States by a Taliban delegation, claiming that the Administration “welcomed” the Taliban official, Sayed Hashemi, “to tour the United States to help improve the image of the Taliban.”
But the Administration did not welcome the Taliban with open arms. In fact, the State Department rejected the Taliban’s claim that it had complied with U.S. requests to isolate bin Laden.
To demonstrate even further the Administration’s contempt for the Taliban and its illegitimacy, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher – on the day of the terrorist regime’s visit – said, “We don’t recognize any government in Afghanistan.”
Fahrenheit Lie #9
▪ Moore does more than simply downplay the threat posed to the U.S. by the former Hussein regime in Iraq. He goes so far as to assert that Saddam “never threatened to attack the United States.”
If by “attack the United States” one interprets this claim to mean that Saddam never threatened to send troops to the United States, then Mr. Moore has a point.
But Saddam Hussein clearly sought to attack the United States within his own sphere of influence, even though he didn’t have the resources to attack U.S. soil from his side of the world:
On Nov. 15, 1997, “the main propaganda organ for the Saddam regime, the newspaper Babel (which was run by Saddam Hussein’s son Uday), ordered: ‘American and British interests, embassies, and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of military operations and commando attacks by Arab political forces.’” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/, Accessed 07/11/04)
In addition, “Iraqi forces fired, every day, for 10 years, on the aircraft that patrolled the no-fly zones and staved off further genocide in the north and south of the country,” (New York Times, 12/1/03)
Saddam Hussein also provided safe haven to terrorists who killed Americans, like Abu Nidal; funded suicide bombers in Israel who certainly killed Americans; and, ran the Iraqi police, which plotted to assassinate former President George Bush.
Source: Republican National Committee <http://www.rnc.org/>
http://i2i.org this link should work, the others have an extra comma.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 07-14-2004).]
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07:38 PM
PFF
System Bot
fourfoot23 Member
Posts: 383 From: Orange County, CA Registered: Oct 2003
The scene deceptively shows the Administration directly blaming Saddam and his regime for the attacks on 9/11 by taking her comments out of context. Now read the entire statement made by Ms. Rice to the reporter:
>
I don't have time to read the whole thing (I'm at work) but this first part...
I seem to recall GW's news conference before we went into Iraq. He specifically brought up 9/11 numerous times just so the average person will will put the two together.
Sure enough, as a result, the Washington Post reported 7 out 10 americans polled believed Saddam had a hand in the 9/11 attacks.
Now you're trying to say the Bush administration NEVER thought this and trying to blame it on Moore???
I'd say you need to reconsider what you are trying to express...
I don't have time to read the whole thing (I'm at work) but this first part...
I seem to recall GW's news conference before we went into Iraq. He specifically brought up 9/11 numerous times just so the average person will will put the two together.
Sure enough, as a result, the Washington Post reported 7 out 10 americans polled believed Saddam had a hand in the 9/11 attacks.
Now you're trying to say the Bush administration NEVER thought this and trying to blame it on Moore???
I'd say you need to reconsider what you are trying to express...
First they lie about the connection, and now .... they lie about... lying about the connection. You gotta love the Bush administration.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-14-2004).]
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07:51 PM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
First they lie about the connection, and now .... they lie about... lying about the connection. You gotta love the Bush administration.
I have noticed that on both sides it doesn't matter what facts are.It's just a buffet to get what you want. In this forum it's an all you can eat buffet for free.
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08:23 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Im not trying to say anything, Im posting an email I received. If you read it you will find links to other sites that claim that Moore is either lying or streching the truth.
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08:39 PM
Earl Member
Posts: 945 From: Dayton Ohio USA Registered: Oct 2001
Moore is an expert at presenting the facts in such a way as to misslead and elicit a desired emotional responce. He is very good at manipulating the facts. The best I have seen. Remember Jim Jones? He used the bible to convince people to kill their children and then to kill themselves. He took the words from the Prince of Peace in such a way to convince people to kill. He was good but Moore is better at it he has a much larger audiance. He must love it, he has fooled so many. The best con man works in such a way so that you think you made up your own mind. You have to be on guard aginst this sot of manipulation. When you take facts or statments out of context you can make them show whatever you want them to. If you let them they can make you belive whatever they want. If you are week minded, (and we know who you are) You will fall for thier lies easily. Nothing supporting a lie as well as carefully assembled facts. He is much better at it than Bush.
[This message has been edited by Earl (edited 07-15-2004).]
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09:02 PM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Moore is an expert at presenting the facts in such a way as to misslead and elicit a desired emotional responce. He is very good at manipulating the facts. The best I have seen. Remember Jim Jones? He used the bible to convince people to kill their children and then to kill themselves. He took the words from the Prince of Peace in such a way to convince people to kill. He was good but Moore is better at it he has a much larger audiance. He must love it, he has fooled so many. The best con man works in such a way so that you think you made up your own mind. You have to be on guard aginst this sot of manipulation. When you take facts or statments out of context you can make them show whatever you want them to. If you let them they can make you belive whatever they want. If you are week minded, (and we know who you are) You will fall for thier lies easily. Nothing supporting a lie as well as carefully assembled facts.
Oh you are so smart.. I wish I could be like you. Isn't it ironic, don't you think. That you accuse people of being weak minded.... but you spelled it incorrectly.
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09:29 PM
LITEDAZE Member
Posts: 1894 From: Timmins ON Canada Registered: Apr 2004
I guess Canadians have no control of their own destiny and depend on decisions made by US for them to survive. I know our politics have World wide effects, it doesn't matter who is in office, but if we go to war it doesn't mean that Canada has to be involved. They could just hang back like France, Germany, and Russia did.
.....yeah.....or like The U.S. did in WW1 and WW2,when they waited 1.5 to 2.5 years before their country was DIRECTLY AFFECTED......don't make it sound like you guys just jumped in at the sound of worldly distress.....
anyway......pretty brave for a Canadian to start this thread.....must have got his new flame suit in the mail today!! since i don't talk politics at the dinner table, and this forum is my dinner table, i usually dodge these posts.........i dunno what brought me to read this one........ i wouldn't call anyone ignorant for voting bush in, Americans know how they want to live, and who they would like to have represent them.......The USA will either grow prosperous or choke on bad decisions, just like Canada. I'm a firm believer of Free thought.....don't just watch that movie and make your statement.....that movie should influence you to find out the truth for yourself, not through a man with an agenda.......remember reefer madness?? how much of that movie ended up being true?? i'm not saying it's all BS, but look into it a bit deeper Mike. I don't like Bush either, but I don't live in a country run by him, and until you do, you really can't complain.....obviously alot of Americans like the way he works...(or hate the other options more) And by the way, this is not from a liberal point of view......Not all Canadians are Liberals.....show me a system that works, and i'll back it, no matter what party you represent.
Trailboss-one bad experience with a frenchman at a hotel in DC and now you don't care for them?? well let me tell you, i worked for Nextel for almost 2 years, and if i woulda collected every bad apple i talked to, i coulda made every forum member a nice pie....but i still know that there are so many awesome Americans out there, i don't let my personal experiences fabricate my opinion of them.......i like my neighbours, i can see past my bedroom window....
The only thing i have beef with is the "moon landing" .......or should i call it the "slow motion video footage of guys in space suits in the desert at night pretending to be on the moon." -flame suit activated!
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09:50 PM
FieroBUZZ Member
Posts: 3320 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Feb 2001
I try to avoid political/religious threads as they tend to quickly turn into a spiral of same old, same old.
However for our neighbours who may not be into the Canadian experience....
MontrealMike lives in a province that is governed by racists and supported by the federal government. They have elected a majority of representatives to the federal government from a party (Bloc Quebecois) whose sole stated purpose is to break up the country. Without many of the checks and balances that the USA has, the Prime Minister has pretty much total power as long as members of his party are willing to vote as he wishes rather than how their constituents or even basic human decency dictate.
Here's a couple articles written by Bill Reily which I thought were pertinent to this discussion.
-------------------- Hating America Friday, July 09, 2004 By Bill O'Reilly
Hating America. That is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo." According to a new poll, 40 percent of Canadian teenagers think America is an evil country. Among French-Canadian teens, the number jumps to 64 percent. Those numbers can be laid right on the doorstep of the Canadian media and government
As you may know, the FOX News Channel is not allowed in Canada, but CNN is. Fair and balanced? You decide.
The USA takes a relentless pounding from many Canadian news organizations and from the liberal government. So, what can we expect from the kids? They're not getting a full picture. And neither is most of the world.
Increasingly, the bully America is being portrayed as the devil. And the far left in this country is gleefully piling on. Guys like Michael Moore [are] running around the world telling everybody what a bad place America is. Moore and his enablers should be very proud of themselves
For the benefit of the Canadian kids, let's take a look at the record:
•The foreign and defense policies of Ronald Reagan (search) resulted in the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the freeing of approximately 122 million people in Eastern Europe.
• The state of Israel would cease to exist if not for American protection, and about 5.5 million Jews would be in grave danger.
• Nearly 23 million Taiwanese would be denied freedom if not for American protection. More than 48 million South Koreans would be living under a dictatorship if not for American protection. USA action led to the removal of the Serbian dictator Milosevic (search), who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Balkans.
• The USA and Britain removed the Iraqi dictator Hussein, who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East. And we have also removed the terrorist Taliban government in Afghanistan.
• America is sending $15 billion to Africa to help victims of AIDS. We were unable to find out how much France contributes, if anything. To be fair, Canada sends $270 million, which is substantial.
• American action in Central America, Grenada (search), and Haiti (search) has kept millions of people out of totalitarian regimes. Of course, all of this has cost every American taxpayer big. And thousands of American servicepeople have lost their lives protecting people overseas.
It is insulting and dishonest for Americans and Canadians and Europeans to condemn this country because they don't like certain policies. Dissent is good. Slander is unacceptable.
The truth is that the USA has freed more human beings in 230 years than the rest of the world combined. France has freed almost no one. Ditto Canada.
So, pardon me as I object to the Michael Moores of the world — and that man is too cowardly to come in here, all right? Pardon me as I object to the anti-American foreign press and bums like Chirac in France and Chretien in Canada.
America has a provable history of freeing oppressed people all over the world in fighting evil dictators. Canada should be ashamed that so many of its young people are flat out ignorant. And Americans should wise up and realize we are living in a changing world. Old friends are not necessarily true friends.
------------------
And more thoughts on Canada's current sad state
------------------
Once upon a time, Canada...as one American noted...used to punch far over its weight.
Now we couldn't punch our way out of a wet paper bag.
This last election was a reflection of what has become of this country, where honesty, integrity, and character pretty much was demonstrated to mean virtually nothing.
Canadians sat by and blithely bought into a campaign of hatred, fear, and outright slanderous and deliberate lies designed to undermine a man who clearly...to anyone who actually gives enough of a **** to take even a look...outclasses by far the entire Liberal Party, forget about Paul Martin.
A vicious campaign, contrived of and fought by proven liars and thieves.
We have, in fact, become a nation in which the rule of thumb has become expediency, convenience, and mediocrity. We are prepared to sit by and ignore outright evil and treachery because to do anything about it simply is just too much trouble.
And besides, we all inately know that America will handle it anyway. So why bother?
We've become a nation of self-serving, self-indulging, self-interested weanies, all to happy and content to let others do the heavy lifting and take the risks in promoting and protecting freedom, liberty, human rights, and democracy.
Our military has been allowed to atrophy into a state of near total collapse, primarily because of to do otherwise required the remote risk of sacrificing the ability of the State to provide its welfare teat, which has become now the true symbol of our society. And in doing so, the State has insured its own primacy in virtually every aspect of the affairs of its citizens.
Our educational systems fill our children's heads with useless tripe and outright propaganda, espoused by hordes of socialist, intellectual snots, who see our schools and universities as little more than breeding grounds and opportunities to reshape the world according to their own narrow little doctrines.
There isn't one young adult in ten or even fifty who leaves our schools, colleges and universities with even so much a bloody clue regarding the history of Canada, America, Britain, or anywhere else in this world. They don't know diddly squat about the sacrifices paid by their ancestors and families in war and tribulation. They don't know the first GD thing about democracy or tyranny, least of all how either is achieved. They don't have the foggiest clue in hell about from whence they came, nor how we arrived.
And the saddest part of all is, nary a damn one of them could possibly care less, either.
Twelve years in an educational system, only to emerge out the back end as ignorant and stupid as a sack of hammers.
WTF are we doing??? Does anyone even know any more???
And we wonder how it comes to pass that liars and thieves and bastards repeatedly get the nod to run our government????
You listen to interviews with Mr. or Ms. Average on the streets of this nation on things political, and you think to yourself, "Good God! And these people get to vote? They couldn't make an informed decision about who should be a damn dogcatcher, even if their very lives depended upon it!"
And the wretched irony of it all is, their very lives do depend upon it.
But try and tell anyone that, eh?
----------------------
I'd vote for this guy for PM!!!! One thing I have noticed is that it seems like it is the younger generation of Canadians that seem to harbour the strongest anti-US feelings. I guess being rasied listening to our Liberal politician's refer to Americans as "Bastards" - and having networks such as Much Music continually making comparisions between George Bush / United States to Hitler / Nazi Germany seems to working. Personally, I think it's just plain sad. I can remember when me and my brother used to make road trips down to the states, proud of our Canadian-ness and made to feel very welcome by the locals. Now, I feel like I have to hold my head in shame when visiting because I'm just plain embarrassed by the outright classlessness of our government and some of our citizens. Here's hoping that the future strenghten Canada / US relations to where they used to be during the good ol' days.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 07-14-2004).]
Our military has been allowed to atrophy into a state of near total collapse, primarily because of to do otherwise required the remote risk of sacrificing the ability of the State to provide its welfare teat, which has become now the true symbol of our society.
The hell of it is, there's no way to fix this.
Yes, Canada is militarily weak. A pushover. Just about any military force in the world could take over Canada (assuming they could GET there, of course). But no one will try. Know why?
Because the United States can't and won't allow it.
Even if we were to say, "Okay, Canucks--you don't like us, you're on your own!" we would STILL have to treat an invasion of Canada as an invasion of the USA--because if we didn't, we'd then have to close up all that hugely long border that we share with walls and trenches and concertina and.... It would be an unacceptable strategic risk; it's a lot easier and cheaper in the long run simply to defend Canada from any and all invaders.
As long as the USA exists, Canada will probably never need a strong military.
Ed
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11:06 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by Toddster: Believe me Mike, No one here doubts that. Clearly your hatred for him has slanted your objectivity.
Answer a question for me:
Halliburton gets a NO-BID award for war reparation services; 77 Billion is spent on a war in a Muslim Country in a Pre-emptive attack; The reasons for war later prove to be questionable.
Do you impeach the President? Yes or no?
quote
Originally posted by edhering: YES impeach him. Sadly there are not enough votes to convict.
Ed
PS Do I win something <EDIT> if I mention that you were talking about Clinton? </EDIT>
Congratulations Ed, Clinton is the man alright. You win an nal-expense paid trip to lovely Bosnia where you will dine at the genocide restaurant were the menu is in English but the ingredients are not disclosed!
Clinton DID indeed launch a PRE-EMPTIVE war on Bosnia on the report that mass graves were being filled with bosnians and genocide was being committed. I agreed with the decision but the graves have yet to be found so it looks like the "REASON" for war is not as advertised. Maybe we should take a page from the liberals play book and claim Clinton set it up because he is just a war monger. I mean REALLY...what ELSE could be the explanation?!
Clinton DID give a NO-BID contract to ......drum roll please.....HALLIBURTON for infrastructure rebuilding. Oh, and Bill and Hillary own a S***load of oil stock my God, I MUST be a conspiracy!
That War cost $77 Billion Dollars and American soldiers were killed and their bodies dragged through the streets.
OK Conn-, do you want to call to have Clinton arrested or shall I ?
Edit to add additional details and original quote
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-14-2004).]
Congratulations Ed, Clinton is the man alright. You win an nal-expense paid trip to lovely Bosnia where you will dine at the genocide restaurant were the menu is in English but the ingredients are not disclosed!
Clinton DID indeed launch a war on Bosnia on the report that mas grave and genocide was being committed. I agrred with the decision but the graves have yet to be found so it looks like the "REASON" for war is not as advertised. Maybe we should take a page from the liberals play book and claim Clinton set it up because he is just a war monger. I mean REALLY...what ELSE could be the explanation?!
Clinton DID give a NO-BID contract to ......drum roll please.....HALLIBURTON for infrastructure rebuilding. Oh, and Bill and Hillary own a S***load of oil stock my God, I MUST be a conspiracy!
OK Conn-, do you want to call to have Clinton arrested or shall I ?
I don't want the prize! Thank you anyway!!!
Ed
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11:24 PM
Jul 15th, 2004
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Toddster, please don't confuse the Democrats with the facts. It gives them headaches.
Clinton on the ticket this year? Deja Vu, I feel like I've asked that question before.
Also try not to distract them democrats and divide the country with constitution ammendments to ban gay marriages when there are more important things we should be worrying about.
I'm sure rednecks in this country are sighing relief the republicans kept the definition of marriage solely between a man and a woman.
Republican still got the redneck vote, wHooweee!
Edit: I sincerely appologize if I've offended any rednecks who do not want to be affiliated with the republican party.
[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-15-2004).]
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12:45 AM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
Clinton on the ticket this year? Deja Vu, I feel like I've asked that question before.
Also try not to distract them democrats and divide the country with constitution ammendments to ban gay marriages when there are more important things we should be worrying about.
I'm sure rednecks in this country are sighing relief the republicans kept the definition of marriage solely between a man and a woman.
Republican still got the redneck vote, wHooweee!
Got something against rednecks? Can you descibe to me what is a redneck? If you can will you please?
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12:50 AM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
Got something against rednecks? Can you descibe to me what is a redneck? If you can will you please?
No, not really. I'm an equal opportunity discriminater.
Well you might be a redneck if you go to the family reunion to pick up women. Uhh, you're gene pool doesn't have a "deep end." Uhh, your dad is also your favorite uncle. Uhh, you don't understand why Bo and Luke never tried to get it on with Daisy. Uhh, after the divorce you still call your Ex "Cuz". Uhh, you refer to your cousin as "my girlfriend". Uhh, you wake up the day after your wedding to find your sister next to you. That about.. Oh, and you don't think Jeff's Foxworthy's jokes are funny.
[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-15-2004).]
Who gives a rats ass about Clinton. That has nothing to do with our conversation. I didn't bite your ridiculous bait, so don't gloat over nothing. Go try to change the subject somewhere else.
When you play soccer .. do youmove the goal every time someone tries to score? Because all your doing is shifting the argument.
that's a new one to me... who is to blame if not the AQ operatives who flew the planes?
-flame suit activated!
my God, I MUST be a conspiracy! 
I don't want the prize! Thank you anyway!!! 
