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GT Trunk seals by infinitewill
Started on: 09-04-2009 07:39 PM
Replies: 1198 (46238 views)
Last post by: Fiero Vice on 01-11-2016 01:46 AM
Camel
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Report this Post11-05-2009 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CamelClick Here to visit Camel's HomePageClick Here to Email CamelSend a Private Message to CamelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im so thankful you have taken the time to pull these together and to get a ball rolling. Such a needed part, for too long.

------------------
Brent
1988 Formula Fiero - Fastback Coversion **CJB T-Tops**

2001 Grand Prix GT High Compression 3800 SC

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Report this Post11-07-2009 04:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CajunClick Here to Email CajunSend a Private Message to CajunEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

infinitewill,

Thanks for the updates. Hopefully the samples will go as planned and those individuals who will be fitting the sample product will be completely satisfied.


Cajun
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Report this Post11-07-2009 04:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Depending on the price count me in as well. Just ruined the one on my 86.
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Report this Post11-10-2009 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JimmySClick Here to visit JimmyS's HomePageClick Here to Email JimmySSend a Private Message to JimmySEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anything to report?
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Report this Post11-12-2009 12:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump for update...
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Add me!
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Report this Post11-13-2009 03:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for timchaClick Here to Email timchaSend a Private Message to timchaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You have a PM.
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Report this Post11-13-2009 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump for product photos and installation video

heck @ this point any news would be nice too.

everyone loves going into the weekend with good news!
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Report this Post11-15-2009 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GTMNClick Here to Email GTMNSend a Private Message to GTMNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any further word from the tests? I am in need of one of these. Can you please put me on the list for one?
Thanks,
Mark
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infinitewill
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Report this Post11-18-2009 03:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
***** UPDATE *****

Hi all, I have to apologize for not posting an update last week as it just occured to me that I replied to a PM but never posted the same info on the thread.

My grandfather once told me "kid, never get excited about a blind date by the way it sounds over the phone".

Well that is what has happened to me. I was told that my samples had been run 2 weeks ago. They were not. I unfortunately am a very small account for these guys and continually get pushed out of the way for their larger orders. Further, I currently have a very large investment of my own money tied up in this and it can be a bit frustrating dealing with all of the delays.

I knew this could and probably would happen, which is why I have taken no orders nor deposits. I am just having to be patient. To further aggravate things, I have had a brutal travel schedule this last month so being home last week was my only opportunity (I am not holding out hope for any progress next week during the week of Thanksgiving but you never know) to put together samples until the second week of Dec. I still have to allow for time for my testers before I commit to the final production piece as well. My goal as stated in the first post was to have final production by the end of the year which still appears reasonable but I was really hoping for something sooner. Hang in there as I am and we will get this thing finalized.

You can't push on a rope.........

\/\/
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Report this Post11-18-2009 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CamelClick Here to visit Camel's HomePageClick Here to Email CamelSend a Private Message to CamelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the update Will! We we all be patient with you!

Brent

------------------
Brent
1988 Formula Fiero - Fastback Coversion **CJB T-Tops**

2001 Grand Prix GT High Compression 3800 SC

http://pontiactributeday.com/

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Report this Post11-19-2009 02:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ants87gtClick Here to Email Ants87gtSend a Private Message to Ants87gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
please put me down for one

thanks
Ant

[This message has been edited by Ants87gt (edited 11-19-2009).]

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Report this Post11-24-2009 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hypo327Click Here to Email hypo327Send a Private Message to hypo327Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will:

I've been searching for over a year to find a new seal, or even the role stock to make one, for my '86 GT. I'm chomping at the bit to get one! My mechanics trashed mine...not totally their fault though, since it is 20-years old. I live in the NW corner of Washington State and believe me, it rains here, especially this time of year. I replaced my spoiler stand gaskets and installed rubber gaskets under the spoiler stand nuts underneath, which made a big difference, but I still have to sop-up water in the bottom of my trunk.

Thanks so much for taking the time to give a full run-down of your process of development and production history. It was very informative and gave me great confidence in you and your work. I only wish I'd been able to be one of your test subjects, 'cause I would have been the ultimate one ;-) It's been raining here just about continually for the last month and a half, and it's raining right now.

Please put me on your list and let me know ASAP when your are taking orders. I need one a year ago!

Thanks
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infinitewill
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Report this Post11-24-2009 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hypo327:

Will:

Please put me on your list and let me know ASAP when your are taking orders. I need one a year ago!

Thanks


 
quote
Originally posted by Ants87gt:

please put me down for one

thanks
Ant



 
quote
Originally posted by GTMN:

Can you please put me on the list for one?
Thanks,
Mark


 
quote
Originally posted by timcha:

You have a PM.


All added (for those I have and haven't returned PM's to!)

I am meeting with the fabricator tomorrow morning at 10:00am. I am hoping for good news. I will post tomorrow afternoon to bring all of you up to date.

\/\/
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infinitewill
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Report this Post11-25-2009 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
***** UPDATE *****

The good, the bad and the ugly.....

Well the good news is, we have identified the problem in extruding the four part gasket into a single extrusion. The top part of the gasket is foam with an air channel. When the trunk is closed on the gasket the air channel acts as a balloon which squeezes outward to form a water tight seal. The bottom parts (there are three) are solid rubber: one just rubber, one is metal reinforced, one originally fiber reinforced is now solid rubber that binds the four parts together when co-extruded

The bad news: When extruding this top part of the seal it comes out of the die soft and there is nothing to keep the "balloon" of air from collapsing in on itself while it goes through the vulcanizing tunnel. There are only two solutions thus far. Make the wall thickness thicker so there is enough "body" to prevent the collapse (difficult as it only needs to be thick enough to prevent the collapse and not so thick that it becomes too rigid after vulcanizing), or make the foam area solid foam with no air channel (very bad idea as the crushed shape will cause the gasket to set permanently to that shape).

The ugly news: We have now gone through 4 sets of dies (@ $1000+ per set) trying to get a set that the balloon part will be rigid enough to hold it's shape while it gets vulcanized (cooked). Die set number 5 is going to made today but there will likely be no progress on a sample extrusion until some time late next week.

Such are the trials of fabrication. Hang in there and I will keep you informed.

BTW, have a Great Thanksgiving!

Will

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 11-25-2009).]

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Hulki U. My-BFF
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ttt

Edit: Just wanted to say, we are rooting you on, Will. I don't mind the time that it is taking because I know you are only making sure it's a quality product. I don't care if it takes 10 years to make, I'm buying.

Andy

[This message has been edited by Hulki U. My-BFF (edited 12-01-2009).]

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quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:

I don't care if it takes 10 years to make, I'm buying.



Only hope you will be home from Sandy Beaches, Iraq before then
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Report this Post12-03-2009 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump
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Report this Post12-05-2009 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
***** UPDATE *****

I had a friend pick up the new sample yesterday while I was in Boulder. I got home late last night and I will try to post a picture of the gasket cross section later today. Those on the test list, I have PM'd you about sending out your samples. I am beginning to think my fabricator is more of a perfectionist than I am. They test fit the sample yesterday and my friend Mike said it looks really good. More later.....

\/\/

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 12-05-2009).]

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Report this Post12-05-2009 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Indiana_resto_guyClick Here to Email Indiana_resto_guySend a Private Message to Indiana_resto_guyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
GR8!
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Report this Post12-05-2009 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CamelClick Here to visit Camel's HomePageClick Here to Email CamelSend a Private Message to CamelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wonderful News, thanks for the update!!

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Report this Post12-05-2009 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm coming in late to this, but I hope it works out I need one. I now see why the Fiero Store has had this in development for almost 2 years.
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Report this Post12-05-2009 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88GT.FASTBACKClick Here to Email 88GT.FASTBACKSend a Private Message to 88GT.FASTBACKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
add me too please.
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Report this Post12-07-2009 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ooo i would defintnaly get one of these asap when they are up for sale. i dont have extra moneys set aside for a trunk seal. my $$ is usally blown on other fiero stuff. or food.

------------------
First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987 | My Fiero Fuel Economy | MPG Display for OBD I
Youtube Videos of My GT | modernize your fiero with technology!
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem
Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones
screw paying those bastards. im not going to become rich by paying for things.....

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87GT2M6
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Report this Post12-07-2009 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by infinitewill:

***** UPDATE *****
I got home late last night and I will try to post a picture of the gasket cross section later today.




can't wait to see the pictures or video...I think you mentioned video at one point, either way I can't wait.
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Another sale here.
I hope your perserverance and enterprising venture pay off better than you'd hoped for.
All the best from a Fiero owner downunder.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump to the top
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TeamPontiac79
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Good Luck with your endeavor, Will. Please add me to your list of future customers!
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Report this Post12-20-2009 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any news? what is the latest on the project?

Here's hoping for thebest.
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Bumparoonie
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infinitewill
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Report this Post12-22-2009 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
***** UPDATE *****

Well, Tis the season for patience apparently I picked up the next sample and we are closer to a testable unit but still not there yet. Without getting "too" overly technical, here is what we are dealing with:



After examining the factory units (above) we noticed the gasket fails in the same place nearly every time (4). Where the upper balloon (1) meets the gripping flange (2) and lower drip flap (3) is the most common.

Notice that the balloon (1) is made of foam rubber and the rest of the piece is solid rubber. The failure most often takes place where the two types of rubber are bonded. We have decided to reinforce that bonding point by extending the area where the two piece are joined. This gives the joint more support but also create a problem of it's own. When we bond the foam and solid rubber together with the lower drip flap and body gap flap (5) they want to curl instead of remaining flat. This is a matter of using the right amount of heat as the foam is less dense it wants to conform to the solid rubber.

The bigger issue is the shape of the balloon. Where the top is flat, either by design or simply forming a "set" from having the trunk pressed against it, the samples we have run are considerably more rounded then the factory unit. By making them more flat the seal will remain centered over the edge of the steel trunk frame. This is proving to be quite a challenge as we are now on our fifth set of tooling (OUCH) to refine the shape as it has to be rigid enough to prevent collapsing during the extrusion process. The sharp corners of the factory unit will cause the balloon to "implode" during vulcanization process.

On a positive note, we have a monster strong grip flange that needs no adhesive of any kind as the factory units often did.

More later

Will

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 12-22-2009).]

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Report this Post12-22-2009 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for whodeanieClick Here to visit whodeanie's HomePageClick Here to Email whodeanieSend a Private Message to whodeanieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Stick with it Will!
so close yet so far
have a great X-mas.
D.
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infinitewill
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Report this Post12-22-2009 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Dean! Same to you as well

Todd (thefierofarm) and his wife came to one of my workshops last week and I gave him a piece of the sample gasket extrusion. He said the same thing I did. Killer quality materials but needs some refinement on the shape. No good deed goes unpunished

\/\/
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Report this Post12-22-2009 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eph_kayClick Here to Email eph_kaySend a Private Message to eph_kayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am interested in a set or two, and put me on the list to keep me up to date with the t-top stuff.

Chris
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infinitewill
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Report this Post12-22-2009 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Chris,

The T-Top seals aren't going to happen, at least by me. There is way to much to invest as they were molded not extruded and virtually no market buy them. With only 1000 or so cars built and far fewer than that still on the road, the tooling alone would not be paid for if every one of the surviving T-Top owners bought a seal set. The GT trunk seal is another issue entirely. Although the front end investment has been heavy, the long term indicates at least a break even.

\/\/
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Have a great Christmas, Will! May 2010 bring you good luck, and fulfilled dreams!

Andy
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Report this Post01-01-2010 02:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hypo327Click Here to Email hypo327Send a Private Message to hypo327Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fiero Store sent me a notice that they are developing a trunk seal to be listed in the near future. Is this your seal, or are they offering one made by some one else?
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Report this Post01-01-2010 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sricka01Send a Private Message to sricka01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would be interested in 1-2 trunk seals. Would shipping tear or deform the seal? Have you thought about how this might affect it?
Good for you! OPKS is my hometown. Best of luck on this.
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Report this Post01-02-2010 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CamelClick Here to visit Camel's HomePageClick Here to Email CamelSend a Private Message to CamelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hypo327:

Fiero Store sent me a notice that they are developing a trunk seal to be listed in the near future. Is this your seal, or are they offering one made by some one else?


Wondered the same thing since TFS after all these years finally says these are in manufacturing. Best of Luck to you Will.

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infinitewill
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Report this Post01-02-2010 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey all,

Like all business opportunities there are innovators and imitators. I am not involved in any way with the Fiero Store or their GT trunk seal. I find it curious that they have done nothing for years until this thread came about but like all businesses we have to go where we can make and sell our products. The way I see it there will always be people who want good and there will always be people who want cheap. I am not interested in making the cheapest product, quite the contrary I am interested in making a superior product. The price will be based on what it costs to produce the product and what it needs to generate in profit to make it worth my effort. Please understand that I am in no way inferring that TFS makes cheap products either. I am however going to have different market focus then a larger vendor might. Much like DIY-Stu makes a far superior dew wipe compared to his competitors, there are those that only look at price and chose other vendors that offer a cheaper (and to some lessor quality) product. I bought Stu's dew wipes and couldn't be happier.

I have put and enormous amount of time and effort as well as my own money and resources into my project. I have asked nothing of anyone other than patience as this process is moving at a much slower pace than even I had anticipated. In the end we may both have products on the market. Ultimately price, quality and service will all come to play in who's product sells and who's doesn't. I am in no position to make any comments on their efforts as they have not produced the product yet nor has mine got to the production stage. TFS has some killer products and I buy from them fairly often but it appears that we may well be competitors on this one.

The man who gave me my first break in the business world gave me the greatest advice I have ever received. I was able to launch my special effects photography business while I was the photography studio manager for his food equipment company. We talked one day about the concept of business loyalty. He told me that there are three kinds of customers/business associates: The first will be loyal no matter what the situation. The second will never be loyal and will only look out for themselves. The third will be loyal if the price is right: they are the ones that will be more trouble and grief then they are worth as the first two types are very clear where they stand. Larry told me that he knew I was blindly loyal to his company but at some point I would out grow the position I held at his firm. It took 14 years but when he decided to retire, I decided to leave his firm. Larry didn't believe in cutting corners he always over delivered to his customers. He shaped my business model. In the end, once my product enters the market place it is all of you that have to decide which of the three you categories you will be in. I've already decided how I will do business.

Pax,

\/\/

P.S. With regard to how my seals will be shipped. They will probably be coiled just fine and will likely ship using USPS Priority Mail Flat rate boxes.

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-02-2010).]

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