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#\ *doublec4* /# Official Build Thread by doublec4
Started on: 02-26-2009 06:22 PM
Replies: 859 (66655 views)
Last post by: doublec4 on 05-07-2020 02:17 PM
doublec4
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Report this Post01-30-2011 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got two of these guys ordered for the project.. Should be completed by april



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doublec4
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Report this Post02-11-2011 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Getting closer.. might add another picture of the airfoil profiles that were machined.

[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 02-12-2011).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post02-13-2011 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
More CNC aluminum goodness

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Report this Post02-16-2011 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JesseMClick Here to Email JesseMSend a Private Message to JesseMEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

Got two of these guys ordered for the project.. Should be completed by april




I'll admit, I have no idea what those things are lol...
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post02-16-2011 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JesseM:


I'll admit, I have no idea what those things are lol...


I do. If I think I can imagine what C4 is doing, then pretty saweet.

DoubleC4, can you let out any information as to where, and who you purchased those from? I have ideas, and it never occured to me to use those.

Tony
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doublec4
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Report this Post02-16-2011 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tony, pm sent.

I'll spill the beans a little more after I hear back from you
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Report this Post02-16-2011 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

We looked into raising the runners for the garage door, but it was an expense/project that we didn't want to take on just yet. Currently we can fit two sports cars, one on top of the other, with the garage door open. Also, with the garage door open and the fiero in the air, I can comfortably get underneath. I can't stand straight up, but I'm only slightly crouching.

Take a look:



By reversing the car onto the lift, the low nose of the fiero allows clearance for the garage door



Sweet! I talked to a dealer at SEMA a couple of years back and was going to get one for my garage. Oh well, things happen. What's the height for the for main legs? 9-feet? The guy told me his would fit if I back the car in so that the nose would clear the door. From viewing your pic-I guess he was right.

------------------



"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."

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doublec4
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Report this Post02-16-2011 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The fit is moderate to snug in an average two car garage, but since you own all those chop tops, it should give you a couple of inches extra clearance height-wise. The price was really reasonable too, and for this particular company all of the components are North American made (supposedly). The main feet are around 8ft tall I think. All the dimensions of the lift can be found here:

http://www.liftsuperstore.c...estomod-xl/index.php

They also carry a slightly more compact version

[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 02-16-2011).]

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Report this Post02-16-2011 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could you take a side pic with the car on the rack? What your ceiling height?

Thanks in advance.
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doublec4
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Report this Post02-16-2011 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm out of town right now until Friday. I'll snap a picture for you when I get back home. I currently have the fiero up unnecessarily high so it will look like there is minimal clearance.
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doublec4
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Report this Post02-17-2011 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tony pm'ed me with the right answer, it will be an adjustible wing for the track. Those things I put a picture up of are linear stepper motors. I'll post more as I go along
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doublec4
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Report this Post02-18-2011 01:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little more progress today. Some of the mock up:





Its been a fun project so far. Got some other parts in as well.
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doublec4
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Report this Post02-23-2011 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
CNC'ed foam, carbon fiber, resin, and the front splitter material. It is RIGID.



More to come as usual!
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doublec4
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Report this Post02-28-2011 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Carbon Fiber and Fiberglass plate came in for the end plates from APR:



Got started on setting up a jig and bonding the frame together so it is straight before the carbon fiber process.

[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 02-28-2011).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post03-02-2011 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got the other half bonded up... did another little mock up for fun... top layer of CNC foam is on there. Disregard how its flopping around at the trailing edge. Going to need something else to hold it in place while "carbon-fibering"



Been a fun project so far
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post03-03-2011 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.caranddriver.com...c-first_drive_review

So thought of your car when I read this on the pot this morning. Especially the part about the wing/air brake system.

Tony
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Report this Post03-03-2011 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85silverbulletClick Here to Email 85silverbulletSend a Private Message to 85silverbulletEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bravo! Looking good
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-03-2011 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the compliments guys.

Going to "one up" that wing you posted Tony
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Report this Post03-03-2011 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Doublec4 that is one good looking wing.

Great job.
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-04-2011 12:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks

It was a nice night for some spray paint:





Would have been nice to have the wing stands anodized, but thats just more $$
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-04-2011 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
More progress today. Also have to own the 500th post in this thread

Got a section of the wing wrapped in bristol board for now. Needs to hold its shape for the carbon fiber process. The foam is inside.





Enjoy
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Report this Post03-04-2011 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lookin good there doublec4 (well, the wing is... I'm not so sure about you! ) I have a quick question for you though... is the resin you use basically just a regular polyester resin or is it something special for the carbon fiber?
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-04-2011 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was told to use the West System products.

Using an epoxy resin from them, and a slow hardener. It will be our (myself and a few other guys) first time working with carbon fiber. Sort of an ambitious project to start out with!

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doublec4
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Report this Post03-06-2011 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Playing with electronics...



A little bit of progress everyday.
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-07-2011 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
More progress today. Got the other half of the wing done in bristol board and packing tape. Should be all ready for carbon fiber now







The trailing edge will be further supported during the carbon fiber process so that it is not wavy.
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-09-2011 02:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No slowing down! We have deadlines to meet!

Made another jig for holding the airfoils while we carbon fiber. Also, it is used to hold the trailing edge up nice and straight. No drooping.





Then we broke out the carbon fiber and started cutting up sheets so we'd be ready to put the resin on tomorrow. Using a heavy plain weave for the bottom, and a 2x2 twill for the good looking layer on top:







Trailing edge looks straight as an arrow:



Tomorrow is the big day!
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Report this Post03-09-2011 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Continue on...
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-09-2011 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Today was another successful/productive day.

Got the carbon fiber laid down, just waiting for it to dry now.

We started with this (and a nice sunny morning out):



Started mixing the resin (also found out the hard way that you're not supposed to mix too much at once)



Apparently this stuff creates a lot of heat through the reaction. It's own heating also helps cure itself.

First layer going down:





The second layer:



One side finished and ready to dry:



Keep in mind that there is excess on the tail that needs to be trimmed. Disregard the tail, it will be further cleaned up.

Both done, just drying:





Until tomorrrow...
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-10-2011 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Worked on the project a little bit more today.

Here are the airfoils waiting to be popped out of the jigs made up for them:



Here they are popped out, waiting to be trimmed:



Fashioned a way to cut a straight line:



One guy cutting, one guy with the shop vac, one guy taking pictures. Safety is a must for cutting this stuff. Don't want to breathe it in!



All trimmed up and ready for further beautification:





The tail end getting a little extra treatment:



Expect more updates tomorrow
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Report this Post03-10-2011 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Carswell...WellscarClick Here to Email Carswell...WellscarSend a Private Message to Carswell...WellscarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is what you do all day at school eh!!?? nice!! Cant wait to see it finished and installed!!

What are you taking again??

If you want a fiero to test it on ..well im only 15 min drive away

The fiero is coming along nicely!!! Keep it up Chris!

It seems like the fiero is never finished!! always more little tweaks here and there !!
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-11-2011 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks buddy, I wish this was all I did at school, but unfortunately theres more to it than building this wing!

I'm in automotive engineering so you can see how this is relevent for a project.

I'll have my car here at the school with the final product on it so you'll have to come by and see it.

Continuing on with the tedious build...

The airfoils were removed from the clamping system in the last update. The trailing edge turned out beautifully. A lot better than we expected. I didn't get a picture of when we first removed it, but I have some later on.

We then flipped the airfoils and this is what we started with:



Then we mixed up more resin and went to apply another coat for that deep glossy finish:



We proceeded to cover the whole thing, top and bottom. Had to constantly rotate the pieces to make sure there were no runs. Used a heat gun to pop any small bubbles.





The trailing edge looks nice and straight. It will need one more trim to get rid of excess resin:



Its really starting to look like a finished product!



Hope you guys are enjoying this build. We've been learning a lot.

[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 03-11-2011).]

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Report this Post03-12-2011 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Managed to snap a few more pictures today of the whole thing. It's successfully cured with no runs in the resin and we're happy with the result. We still might wet sand and buff it. Definitely have to trim the excess resin from the trailing edge again.

Here are some pictures!









Check out that gloss
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madcurl
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Report this Post03-12-2011 05:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

Managed to snap a few more pictures today of the whole thing. It's successfully cured with no runs in the resin and we're happy with the result. We still might wet sand and buff it. Definitely have to trim the excess resin from the trailing edge again. Here are some pictures!


Check out that gloss


Nice. Will the buffing remove and smooth out the somewhat wavy surface?
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-12-2011 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The sanding and buffing will probably remove some of it. I don't think it will ever be perfect considering it was hand laid carbon fiber and the resin was done by hand. Some imperfections can't be fixed but its more of a test piece / prototype.

It looks nice as is from 5-10 feet away. We're hoping to cut that down with the sanding and buffing so that its more of a 2-3 footer lol.

Its also meant to be a track wing so looks aren't paramount.

All part of the difficulties with working with carbon fiber!
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Report this Post03-13-2011 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aeffertzClick Here to Email aeffertzSend a Private Message to aeffertzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How much does that thing weigh? Seems like the amount of resin used would defeat the purpose of using carbon fiber.

Just curious, nice work!
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-13-2011 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll try and weigh them soon. When I picked them up before the second coat of resin, I would guess no more than a couple of pounds each.

The extra resin will add some weight, but I'm not that concerned. There are better ways to saturate the fiber with resin than this, however, they require vacuum pumps etc. This was done with brushes.

It will be a 65 inch wing span. I can't see the carbon fiber section weighing more than 10 lbs total. I feel like thats a very generous estimate.
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Report this Post03-14-2011 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Managed to do more work today.

Got the airfoils trimmed up:



Mocked up the assembley quickly:





Still lots to do. Need to cut out end plates and center plates, mounts for the stands, etc...

As for the weight question, each half weights apprx 5 lbs and some odd ounces:





Both stands together:



Not bad for weight. I was somewhat close with my original estimate. The resin weighed more than I had expected.
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doublec4
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Report this Post03-14-2011 11:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We got a little excited tonight and decided to do more work.

We needed to drill some holes in the deck lid, see where things lines up, etc.









Tomorrow we will mount it. We cut some feet for the wing stands.
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Report this Post03-15-2011 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not as much progress today... ran into a slight technical difficulty that was rectified.

Started getting these "feet" together a little more. They will be finished nicer, and painted etc. Won't look so industrial when we're done:

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Report this Post03-16-2011 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did some more work today. Got the wing stand feet finished up. Cut them shorter on top to match the profile of the wing stand, and rounded the corners off. Unfortunately didn't get a picture of them.

There was a slight change in design as well. We decided to go with bronze bushings and hone them out for more clearance:

Safety first... this is our honing contraption.. don't ask...



This is the bronze bushing pressed into the wing stand. The stands need a repaint.



Here are the bushings pressed into the airfoils:



Also started cutting out the end plates from a flat sheet of carbon fiber. They won't be rectangles. Just some simple cuts for today:





Everyday a little more progress..

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