It's very disappointing that no one makes the whipple SC kit for the 3800 anymore. Last option to get the most HP out of it would be a twin charge setup. Don't see that happening in the near future.
Originally posted by bmwguru: Inside of one week after WCF failed to provide a clutch and flywheel (three months), Spec sent this to us at half the cost of WCF.
I understand keeping money "inside the Fiero community", but if a vendor can provide the part at half the cost, it's just not competitive. You should have stopped right there. When I build a product for my customer, I see it as my obligation to give him the best deal possible. (price/speed/quality)
Even if a vendor builds parts specifically for the Fiero, their pricing should be competitive with outside vendors. - Especially if the outside vendors are building parts for the Fiero as well. Outside vendors should support the Fiero as well, and if we don't order from 3rd party vendors, we won't have any 3rd party vendors catering to Fieros.
example: Even though I could just go ahead and by 3rd party Moog balljoints, I buy them through Rodney, because he IS competitive with 3rd party suppliers, and I support him. If his products were 2x, or 3x as expensive, I'd buy Moog. (as the products are about the same quality) (note: I wouldn't buy a cheap chinese knockoff, just because it's cheaper, since the quality doesn't match my requirement)
I understand keeping money "inside the Fiero community", but if a vendor can provide the part at half the cost, it's just not competitive. You should have stopped right there. When I build a product for my customer, I see it as my obligation to give him the best deal possible. (price/speed/quality)
Even if a vendor builds parts specifically for the Fiero, their pricing should be competitive with outside vendors. - Especially if the outside vendors are building parts for the Fiero as well. Outside vendors should support the Fiero as well, and if we don't order from 3rd party vendors, we won't have any 3rd party vendors catering to Fieros.
example: Even though I could just go ahead and by 3rd party Moog balljoints, I buy them through Rodney, because he IS competitive with 3rd party suppliers, and I support him. If his products were 2x, or 3x as expensive, I'd buy Moog. (as the products are about the same quality) (note: I wouldn't buy a cheap chinese knockoff, just because it's cheaper, since the quality doesn't match my requirement)
/soapbox
It was more that WCF claimed to have a complete kit...tested and all the bugs worked out. I built Michael's project CR3810N turbo/F40 and the only issues we are having are from the F40 install parts. I didn't want to have to R&D a trans setup on this car, but it is already done, driving and now I have the formula needed to make a F40 work with a 3800.
I'll be posting up some videos later today or tomorrow.
I took about 6 videos, but driving in Howell is pretty boring....and I need better video editing software. Here is a quick video of me going to the gas station...lol. If all goes well, this car will be back in Charlie's hands very soon.
Here is the final mod list:
3800s/c gen V blower with 3.0" pulley. 42lb injectors. ZZP stage 3 heads. XP hot camshaft, handmade custom headers with Magnaflow muffler, 77mm Northstar throttle body, ZZP full size intercooler, Devil's Own methanol injection, F40 G6 6 speed manual transmission with aluminum flywheel.
The 2.8" pulley was not very good on the Gen V blower. The injectors couldn't keep up and the blower was falling off too early. It pulls harder with the 3.0" pulley and we are running 18 degrees of timing at WOT with no KR.
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-16-2012).]
here are pics from the last page.....I am impressed that my luck at matching the yellow powercoating to the exterior paint is a pretty close match. All I can say is that it is a fun car to drive!
I took Charlie's car to the outskirts of town and took some pics near the abandoned factory and other rural areas. I've probably put about 300 miles on this car in the past two days.
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-16-2012).]
So, Charlie's car was ready to go home and it started getting slower. I did a compression test and leakdown test and our worst fear had come true....we lost cylinder #6.
The sad part is it was still faster than most 3800 Fiero's on only 5 cylinders.
I spent two days and got a low mileage series III short block and switched all his parts over. Since Charlie is a good friend and customer (even with his Mercedes-Benz), I bought him a present for his short block as long as we were digging that far...The XZP cam.
All assembled and ready to drop back in...
Should be on the road again Monday. We also modified Spec's slave cylinder shim. It rattled really bad. If I have to do another 3800s/c/F40, I will either make my own shim or make my own flywheel.
Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-29-2012).]
I smoke test every engine for vacuum leak before I drop it in. The ZZP aluminum valve covers seem to interfere with the 42lb injectors and sometimes have o-ring leaks.....just keep an eye out for that if you are running that combo.
I went tothe shop this morning and installed the drivetrain. I pulled the fuel pump fuse and cranked it until I got oil pressure. Installed the fuse and it fired right up....and sounded mean. I'll be playing with the Go-Pro this week with this swap and another swap that I am almost done with...should be good for a few videos. Dave
Now that's what I call dedication. This whole experience has been very enlightening. When I had the original swap done back in 2004 I was told the engine came out of a 2004 Grand Prix. I was not aware back then that 2004 and up GPs had the series III engine. Our best guess is the original swap came from an 02 or older with quite possibly a lot of miles. At least now I can say it has been done right!
When Dave said he had a surprise for me had no idea what he was talking about, but very pleased with what he's done. I won't be able to attend the Lititz show this year since I'll be traveling, but Dave knows he's more than welcome to take my car there and "REPRESENT" if he decides it's ready. Hoping to make Pete's next cruise and pick up a camera like Dave's. Guess I'll go stare at my wheels still in the boxes in my shed and drool over my tires at the tire shop.
your original pcm came from a 1999 Grand Prix. I can't be sure if that was the year of your motor, but it was definitely a series II. The 2004 Grand Prix's can have a block stamped series II, but will have the series III blower and heads. The replacement engine was from a 2005 Grand Prix. The junkyard was baffled when I told them that I would be stripping it down to the short block and I wanted a "professional warranty"....basically my word that if there was an issue with the short block, they would not try and say it was my fault. I had to get the motor built and running in a reasonable amount of time for this as well. I performed a leakdown test on it and it runs nice....so we should be set.
yeah, it will definitely be dyno'ed. I am expecting a bit more than 350whp when it is said and done.
I expect the tuning to be complete today or tomorrow.
Here is the mod list again.
Gen V supercharger with 3.0" or 2.8" pulley...not sure yet. full size intercooler methanol injection with 7gph nozzle ZZP stage 3 cylinder heads with oversize valves and 130lb springs XPZ cam with double roller timing chain custom hand made headers with 1 5/8" primaries to 3" collector 77mm Northstar throttle body 42lb injectors (hoping they don't max out) ZZP fuel pump Cold Air intake Haus of Guru tuning Spec aluminum flywheel and stage 3+ clutch
What Fuel pump you guys are running and did you do the voltage mod? That will also determine if the injectors need to be upgraded to 60#? I never had an issue with my 42.5 and I was running 12.0 1/4 mile when I was SC'ed. Although, that was probably attributed to more 4T65e-HD than WHP. I hope the F40 holds up well and can put the HP to the pavement as it sure looked good on that test drive.
that is good to know. I expect to see 400whp with these mods, but we will see....I'm hoping the hype with the XZP cam is based on reality. I've been tuning the car and the power is the most I have felt from a s/c 3800.
And from what we learned this was with the series II engine and on 5 cylinders. Anxious to drive it with the series III engine and all the upgrades. Right now Dave has it at the MAFOA Fall Show in Lititz, PA.
Here is the final mod list and it is ready to go home.....
Gen V supercharger with 2.9" pulley full size intercooler methanol injection with 5gph nozzle ZZP stage 3 cylinder heads with oversize valves and 130lb springs XPZ cam with double roller timing chain custom hand made headers with 1 5/8" primaries to 3" collector 77mm Northstar throttle body 42lb injectors ZZP fuel pump Cold Air intake Haus of Guru tuning Spec aluminum flywheel and stage 3+ clutch
Now I read on another thread that the owner of a Fiero got pissed because his car was used for daily driving by the builder. WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM DOING????? I think I added close to 750 miles on Charlies car since he last saw it. I also changed the pulley, tuning and meth nozzle size quite a few times to get the best balance. I finally finished the last bit of tuning in my spare time this week and I don't think I can make it any better so it is done.
Here is how I spent my evening driving home......not sure if I was testing the drivetrain or the radio out....lol.
Sorry about the camera angle.....I was worn out from the work week. Reference note: that is a 200mph speedo and I had it OVER 100MPH on that one backroad.
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 10-13-2012).]
Is that all the miles you put on it? I thought you said you were going to "drive" it. 750....7500...like I have an issue with that. Dave, you have essentially built me a new car from the shell of everything we tried to salvage. I guess sitting up for over 3 years as one of Loyde's yard decorations did more damage than we expected. That and the fact the engine was much older than I was led to believe during the original swap. When you tell me the car has your seal of approval...I'm good. Til then...drive it....shoot more video...enjoy the sound system (I guess one of the contributions I did right ) Great video. Looks like you're enjoying it way too much Anxious to see the dyno results.
Haus how far are you from Newark ?? I spent last week there, and did not even remember you were in N.J.. I would have loved to have seen this car in person,...although my wife probably would have killed me as it was supposed to be a couple's vacation hehehe.
Hi Tony. Got all the details regarding the sound system on page 9 of the thread. Of course my favorite part was all the audio shops that told me I couldn't do it. Amateurs.
We're looking at Thursday for pick up. Dave is still in Lakewood, NJ. You should be able to see my car at Daytona next year.
[This message has been edited by Charlie64 (edited 10-13-2012).]
I'm all set to get on the train and pick up my car from Dave tomorrow I went to the tire shop yesterday and they were mounted the front wheels and tires without incident. They unfortunately were unable to mount the rear tires on the wheels. First...the wheels were too wide for their equipment. Second...they didn't have one of the new "high tech" tire mounting machines like the Auto34. After many attempts and an unfortunate accident one of the rear tires suffered a torn sidewall.
They immediately ordered a replacement which is due to arrive tomorrow. After doing some research last night I found found out about the Auto34 Tire Changer and this morning contacted one of our local auto shops, Curry's Auto Service, who has this machine and asked them if they would be able to do the install the massive rear tires on my 11.5" wheels. I brought them the the wheels and the remaining rear tire. They had it done in about 4 minutes.
I was informed the wheel balance was almost perfect without any weights added. Cudos to Forgeline. Had them balance the front wheels with the same results. I plan to follow up with NTB regarding the replacement tire due in tomorow so I can bring it to Curry's Friday morning. I'll see if they won't mind me shooting video of them mounting the remaining tire.
One more night and a wake up and these will be on my car.....FINALLY!!!!!
Sorry for the photo quality. Guess my iPod only takes great pictures when there's plenty of light.
[This message has been edited by Charlie64 (edited 10-18-2012).]
Pics, pics, pics!
So... got any more Go Pro footage? When is the car going back to Charlie? Will it be gone when I come for mine?
