Slammed: If they turn out reasonably good but not as nice as OEM do not let anyone that bashes you discourage you. I would hate to see these be made and then quickly dropped because some people attack you on them for not being as good as OEM. If someone actually makes these and they are reasonably good quality be happy for that instead of bashing this guy because they are not as nice as OEM. This may never happen again.
Yes. I'd rather have something that's not exactly OEM than what many of us are hauling around on the rear end of our cars. It's like repainting the car. Not as good as the factory paint, but far better than the faded, peeling clearcoat we're sporting.
Sorry! I really wasn't intending to attack anyone.
I do think there are some legit questions being asked. Like the sail panels, it's one thing to sell a pretty good match for a lower price. And if these are going to be $500 and up, I think it's legit to have more info about how they are made and tested so that we can make an educated assessment of lifespan/durability/etc. It's better to know up front than be surprised later. My buddy's Murcielago has a cracked tail light lens. Apparently almost all of them do that. Excellent materials used, of course. They just missed how, when installed, there is a stress point that causes a fatigue crack in a corner with stress risers.
Sorry! I really wasn't intending to attack anyone.
I do think there are some legit questions being asked. Like the sail panels, it's one thing to sell a pretty good match for a lower price. And if these are going to be $500 and up, I think it's legit to have more info about how they are made and tested so that we can make an educated assessment of lifespan/durability/etc. It's better to know up front than be surprised later. .
IMO it is better to have something that is OKish than nothing at all. If you only want perfection or nothing at all you can voice your opinion. But voicing that opinion may make this person say I don't need this and not make them at all. Which do you prefer?
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
What this person needs to hear is a lot of encouragement. What he is trying to accomplish is very difficult. Let me emphasize the word difficult. If he encounters some difficulties along the way (and I'm sure he will) hearing word of encouragement from the Fiero group will help in getting him thru these difficulties with a positive attitude. Let us all give him words of encouragement.
Do not expect these to be uber perfect. Only hope they are fairly nice.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I can't replace my cracked lenses with a new set for any sort of reasonable price (heck that's if I can even find a set). With that being said having some sort of reproduction that is the OEM style is exactly what I want and the idea of these fit the bill.
They are not factory parts and I don't expect them to be.
Originally posted by TXOPIE: I will chime in...but PREFER prefect replicas! If you can do that...I will want a minimum of 5 sets please & TY.
No-one can legally make "perfect" copies of OE because they don't have GM OE molds!
Even tho new parts are Identical for OE in every way... New molds would likely need new DOT codes for maker and year at minimum. This means if showing car in Factory classes then maybe points off for wrong DOT coding on the covers Or Selling as "numbers matching" and people read DOT label then buyer might care because manufacturer=X not Guide and year=15 not 84 or 86. Everyone else shouldn't care. (Rest of code should be same. Code decipher covered in my Cave, Lighbulbs at bottom.)
For others Why Bother? NHTSA and other Govmnts can and have made Aftermarket parts makers to recall products, etc. NHTSA won't bother w/ DIY making their own lights (your city or state cops and inspections might) but Any "Business" Selling across State Lines or Internationally then Fed laws/rules can, very likely will, apply. Meaning If your making "illegal" lighting then you are gambling with US Gov and others when selling to anyone in another state or country. An Old example APC tail lights recall and suit by NHTSA. $650,000 Civil Penalty + Lawyer Fees + Cost for 4 recalls + Cost to develop and make the products in the first place likely = Millions of Dollars Then dealing w/ bad PR is more money lost. Recall(s) covered Bogus DOT markings on APC products, missing functions like reflectors, etc. Google or NHTSA search for more info.
EITHER get the DOT approval, and honestly, not sure how many hoops or what cost is involved in that.
OR sell them under the guise of "For off road use only" that everyone else uses when selling aftermarket products such as lights, mirrors and such for a vehicle. DO NOT CERTIFY THEM in any way shape or form. Then the legal responsibility falls on the owner of the vehicle.
For example: I can make a purple heart shaped headlights that would fit your car, and that is 100% legal, and no one could legally come after me in any way for making them. What is NOT legal, is for you to install them, and drive the car around with them on it.
Another example: If you install a 1 watt light bulb in your brake light sockets, then get a ticket because it looks as if you have no brake lights. There is no legal way to go after the bulb manufacturer to place blame on them. You are the one that installed something that was not certified for that particular use on your car.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-22-2015).]
Originally posted by Rodney: IMO it is better to have something that is OKish than nothing at all. If you only want perfection or nothing at all you can voice your opinion. But voicing that opinion may make this person say I don't need this and not make them at all. Which do you prefer?
I am with Rodney on this and may consider picking up a set for myself (GT 1/4 windows for sure if they are made and match the OEM look) just in case.
I posted this in the other thread. Still wouldn't mind seeing this option, in addition to the standard GT lenses...
Why not make similar - but not exact - tail lights, in 3 pieces. A separate center piece, and left and right lenses. The 3rd gen Firebird tail lights are, I believe, constructed this way. The center section could be painted silver, black, body color, or whatever. Or even molded opaque.
This would also provide another non-stock - but still "pontiac looking" - option for those who aren't interested in Ferrari or Corvette style lights.
Just my $.02.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
I posted this in the other thread. Still wouldn't mind seeing this option, in addition to the standard GT lenses...
Why not make similar - but not exact - tail lights, in 3 pieces. A separate center piece, and left and right lenses. The 3rd gen Firebird tail lights are, I believe, constructed this way. The center section could be painted silver, black, body color, or whatever. Or even molded opaque.
This would also provide another non-stock - but still "pontiac looking" - option for those who aren't interested in Ferrari or Corvette style lights.
Just my $.02.
The 3rd Gen Firebird coupe lights are 2 piece it looks like, and the T/A lights are 3 piece with the Firebird logo in the central piece. All 4th gen are 3 piece lights I think.
I posted this in the other thread. Still wouldn't mind seeing this option, in addition to the standard GT lenses...
Why not make similar - but not exact - tail lights, in 3 pieces. A separate center piece, and left and right lenses. The 3rd gen Firebird tail lights are, I believe, constructed this way. The center section could be painted silver, black, body color, or whatever. Or even molded opaque.
This would also provide another non-stock - but still "pontiac looking" - option for those who aren't interested in Ferrari or Corvette style lights.
Just my $.02.
Could also nicely contain the light up lettering in one piece.
The 3rd Gen Firebird coupe lights are 2 piece it looks like, and the T/A lights are 3 piece with the Firebird logo in the central piece. All 4th gen are 3 piece lights I think.
I used to own an 88 Firebird Formula. Pretty sure it had a center panel and two light assemblies. I only remember because the center panel got really dull and flat looking, while the tail lights themselves were fine.
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Could also nicely contain the light up lettering in one piece.
That was my thought, as well.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-22-2015).]
I'm sorry but this thread makes my BS detector sound the alarms. I don't think we'll see anything. I hope I'm proven wrong.
As far as quality is concerned, it better be perfect for prices >= $500. I don't care if the vendor's delicate feelings get hurt when my wallet is $500 lighter. I'm perfectly fine with not having anything aftermarket rather than getting ripped off by crap that may be on offer.
[This message has been edited by cyrus88 (edited 04-23-2015).]
The negative comments don't mean anything. The ones in charge that have put up the money don't know this or that about Fieros. It is about making money. Poor product = poor sales. No product = no sales.
Maybe it'll all go completely south and the skeptics will be right. Will anything good come of that beside an I told you so? Certainly not. There is something I have noticed over just the last month of being here, and it is that an unfortunate amount of people on this forum are sour. They enjoy questioning everyone and making statements that are neither productive or uplifting.
I am choosing to remove myself from this thread until we have a big update. The only information I am ALLOWED to give is already in the thread. Revealing details about manufacturing before a product is even on the market is extremely foolish. You can research before you buy when you finally have the option to do so.
Until next time
[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 04-23-2015).]
I am excited about the project! I imagine throughout history there have been nay-sayers...
"You can't sail around the world..." "You can't fly..." "You can't go faster than the speed of sound..." "You can't fly into outer space..." "You can't, you can't, you can't..."
Thank god someone had the sense not to listen to the nay-sayers. Pursue and succeed!
Originally posted by Slammed: There is something I have noticed over just the last month of being here, and it is that an unfortunate amount of people on this forum are sour. They enjoy questioning everyone and making statements that are neither productive or uplifting.
Unfortunately true, although in the case of many here I'm pretty sure they're not so much sour, as they are jaded from previous attempts from others to start a project like this.
The difference being, it sounds like you've already got the groundwork well and truly sorted and have the means to actually achieve the end result. I don't own a GT and likely never will, but I'm extremely excited to see where this goes!
People are talking about dot this and that and legality. I have been driving for 35 years with all kinds of aftermarket and homemade tailights and have never been pulled over for them. Cops have other things such as expired inspection or registration stickers to look for. As was stated above, mark them for "offroad use only" and people will still buy them. I know I have bought many things marked like that and it didn`t make a difference to me.
The factory lights weren't even perfect.. I had the Fiero store replacements on the GT I just sold and they were early in the production #'s apparently, they were very very nice looking.
Originally posted by Slammed: ..There is something I have noticed over just the last month of being here, and it is that an unfortunate amount of people on this forum are sour. They enjoy questioning everyone and making statements that are neither productive or uplifting...
That is so sadly true. But please do not get discouraged by it. There are a lot of really good people who doesn't post here with real money that will buy these. The FS were not perfect and they flew off.
Originally posted by TXGOOD: People are talking about dot this and that and legality. I have been driving for 35 years with all kinds of aftermarket and homemade tailights and have never been pulled over for them. Cops have other things such as expired inspection or registration stickers to look for. As was stated above, mark them for "offroad use only" and people will still buy them. I know I have bought many things marked like that and it didn`t make a difference to me.
Local cops may not pull you over (and they are unlikely to unless your light is out or something anyway, because the DOT marking on the lights is basically invisible from a distance), but in areas where safety inspections are required, light assemblies without DOT approval can be grounds for failing the inspection. Printing DOT stamps on something that has not been DOT approved can also result in Federal action against the business. It might not affect you personally, but it could affect the business producing the lights, and their availability.
You might not care, but these are meaningful and relevant questions to have answered, for those that do care, or are interested in seeing such a product actually be sustainable in the market (as we all know most products for Fieros are not).
I hope this comes to be, and wish you the best of luck with this project. A year ago I paid around $400 for a very nice but not perfect set for my notchback, and I was glad to get them. Almost certainly anything you make would be an improvement over most of the used ones now available. Maybe having a source for new taillights would low the price for nice used ones to a more reasonable price. Remember the Holley side air scoops going for a hundred buck or more until The Fiero Store made one with Fiero instead of Holley? They sold for $25 and overnight the price dropped way down for the Holley scoops.
Local cops may not pull you over (and they are unlikely to unless your light is out or something anyway, because the DOT marking on the lights is basically invisible from a distance), but in areas where safety inspections are required, light assemblies without DOT approval .
The inner tail lights have the DOT markings. That should be sufficient. The outer lens is clear.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Local cops may not pull you over (and they are unlikely to unless your light is out or something anyway, because the DOT marking on the lights is basically invisible from a distance), but in areas where safety inspections are required, light assemblies without DOT approval can be grounds for failing the inspection. Printing DOT stamps on something that has not been DOT approved can also result in Federal action against the business. It might not affect you personally, but it could affect the business producing the lights, and their availability.
You might not care, but these are meaningful and relevant questions to have answered, for those that do care, or are interested in seeing such a product actually be sustainable in the market (as we all know most products for Fieros are not).
Well, I have been getting safety inspections for the same number of years and they don`t look at the tailights either. I`m just saying, let the man manufacture what he wants and let people decide if they want to buy. I realize that some are trying to be helpful with information that maybe he didn`t think of but some comments are almost degrading as if he hasn`t spent time on finding out the ins and outs for producing something for retail sale.
PS: I am not the one that will be selling these. I'm just sticking up for something that is very well needed and here is the slim chance it may actually be made. I hate to see this stop before it even starts.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Originally posted by Rodney: The inner tail lights have the DOT markings. That should be sufficient. The outer lens is clear.
I don't know what the notchie lights are like, but I just checked again on my GT, and the DOT stamp seems to be cast into the outer lens, on the inner side of it, in the clear area.
Originally posted by TXGOOD: Well, I have been getting safety inspections for the same number of years and they don`t look at the tailights either. I`m just saying, let the man manufacture what he wants and let people decide if they want to buy. I realize that some are trying to be helpful with information that maybe he didn`t think of but some comments are almost degrading as if he hasn`t spent time on finding out the ins and outs for producing something for retail sale.
Sure, but again, it's up to state regulations, and ultimately the inspector, to determine what amount of the law gets enforced at the point of inspection. I see cars riding around all the time, with new valid inspection stickers, that I know would not be able to pass a properly performed inspection. But this thread isn't about the corruption and negligence of the facilities for inspections.
Sure, he can manufacture what he wants, and people will decide if they want to buy it or not. But this is a forum for discussion, not a self-help group therapy meeting. If you post something on a forum, expect that there will be some discussion, and not just people praising you for doing something. Some people will probably be rude or off-putting, the same as they will be at any location where a bunch of people gather.
Myself, I was just verifying if the cast-in DOT stamp in the clear portion would be there or not, and that was quickly and satisfyingly answered.
Sure, but again, it's up to state regulations, and ultimately the inspector, to determine what amount of the law gets enforced at the point of inspection..
Then make the choice to not buy his. Are you trying to make him stop making these???
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Originally posted by Rodney: Then make the choice to not buy his. Are you trying to make him stop making these???
No, why are you so uppity about me asking if he removed the DOT stamp from the mold or not? FFS. It's a simple question and he answered it quickly and without any drama.
Have the people on this forum really become so sensitive that one can't ask relevant and useful questions about something?
Price them higher so they can't get them when they need them 
