Hey Mr Bitter, if you have a paypal account, could you please let me know what it is. I want to send you money so you can get that stick pulled out of your ass. But when you get the money, please don't funnel it into your Junior Moderator Wannabe fund.
Hey Mr Bitter, if you have a paypal account, could you please let me know what it is. I want to send you money so you can get that stick pulled out of your ass. But when you get the money, please don't funnel it into your Junior Moderator Wannabe fund.
HIT THE BACK BUTTON, NOT THE REPLY BUTTON!
Hehehe... You're not the type person I would ever trust any of my financial information to.
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03:22 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37753 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by JazzMan: Say, you saw where I told you how you can correct your mistake on choosing this thread category, right? Do you know how to edit your first post? Why don't you go ahead and do that now? Thanks!
Nah, nobody's going to do that. Just hoping phonedawgz will man up and do the right thing is all... As soon as the topic gets properly categorized I won't be able to see it or reply in it anymore.
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05:02 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37753 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by JazzMan: As soon as the topic gets properly categorized I won't be able to see it or reply in it anymore.
No, you will still be able to reply to/in it. If you want to. If you don't want to, you can see it and decide not to. Easier than even a click of the mouse,
Oh ? We have the market cornered on the truth ? Hahaha. These Dems are now saying that what the Repubs did was a showed blatant disregard for the democratic process. Sweet jesus. Do they not realize how incredibly moronic they look after making a farce of the system by getting on a bus and running from any sort of debate? Losers! Does it ring truth better now that I said it ?
Haha. Thanks Cliff. I guess I get caught up in US politics as my fam is originally from Texas, and we still have a lot of relatives down there. It also never ceases to amaze me the similarities between your Dems and our Canadian Liberals with their constant hypocrisy and self righteous attitude. I wish Walker all the best in his dealings with the union thugs, and I hope unions up here take heed as to how things shake out. In other news, our doctors are going on strike once again, leaving patients without treatment until their demands are met. Just like clockwork, every three years they bull this BS and put everyones health at risk for their greed. Would be nice to have someone with the courage of Reagan to fire the whole works of them, nurses, doctors, the whole damn bunch and bring in non-unionized personel that won't hold the public hostage every time they want a bigger house.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 02-25-2011).]
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05:26 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
No, you will still be able to reply to/in it. If you want to. If you don't want to, you can see it and decide not to. Easier than even a click of the mouse,
Actually, no I won't. Once it's properly categorized as political it will disappear right off my screen. Poof, just like that. I've got that category unchecked, and thanks to the mad programming skillz of our benefactor Cliff Pennock my browser won't show this thread anymore.
Trust me, the one time recently where I checked political to see how things looked it was like visiting the intake end of a major sewage treatment facility. Which I actually have as part of a science course. Nasty doesn't even begin to describe it....I can still imagine the smell...
So no, once phonedawgz fixes his screwup it's gone from my eyes forever.
[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 02-25-2011).]
Trust me, the one time recently where I checked political to see how things looked it was like visiting the intake end of a major sewage treatment facility. Which I actually have as part of a science course. Nasty doesn't even begin to describe it....I can still imagine the smell...
Well, of course; that's how politics works. Those of us who understand the necessity for defending freedom in this country will continue to care, and act accordingly. You will continue to stick your nose in and complain about being offended, like you have done here, because you can't help yourself. You've proved that in several threads in the last three weeks. Moth to a flame.
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06:25 PM
PFF
System Bot
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
No, that's not how politics works. In fact, it's not working now, not at all. Well, I take that back: It working like it works in third world countries. I remember when there was civility and decorum in the process, where views were respected and understood, even when not accepted. All that's around now is character assassination, lies, distortions, and partisan bickering and name calling. Insults, deceit, trickery, the whole shebang. But, I guess that reflects on the character of the current crop of partisans I suppose. There's no honor anymore, just win at any cost and to hell with the consequences. Maybe it'll come to blows at some point. It did in the 1860's, no real reason why it can't now.
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06:55 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
In other news, our doctors are going on strike once again, leaving patients without treatment until their demands are met. Just like clockwork, every three years they bull this BS and put everyones health at risk for their greed. Would be nice to have someone with the courage of Reagan to fire the whole works of them, nurses, doctors, the whole damn bunch and bring in non-unionized personel that won't hold the public hostage every time they want a bigger house.
WOW, and during the health care bill debate SOME people were saying we need to have a system just like Canada. Oh well, we probably will.
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 02-25-2011).]
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07:03 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
No, that's not how politics works. In fact, it's not working now, not at all. Well, I take that back: It working like it works in third world countries. I remember when there was civility and decorum in the process, where views were respected and understood, even when not accepted. All that's around now is character assassination, lies, distortions, and partisan bickering and name calling. Insults, deceit, trickery, the whole shebang. But, I guess that reflects on the character of the current crop of partisans I suppose. There's no honor anymore, just win at any cost and to hell with the consequences. Maybe it'll come to blows at some point. It did in the 1860's, no real reason why it can't now.
When exactly was this? IMHO the only thing that's changed is the fact that we have 24/7 coverage of everything these days. It's all instantly broadcast, posted, tittered, facebooked, texted, whatever, and it's all instantly available for discussion by anyone with a digital connection.
The bickering and lack of civility is nothing new, it's the scale that's changed because now everyone is a commentator.
When exactly was this? IMHO the only thing that's changed is the fact that we have 24/7 coverage of everything these days. It's all instantly broadcast, posted, tittered, facebooked, texted, whatever, and it's all instantly available for discussion by anyone with a digital connection.
The bickering and lack of civility is nothing new, it's the scale that's changed because now everyone is a commentator.
IDK, I gotta agree with Jazzman on this. I think it's part of "the plan" to have both sides fighting about goofy stuff so much that nobody notices when we are slipped into a truly socialist state.
The bickering and lack of civility is nothing new, it's the scale that's changed because now everyone is a commentator.
I agree here... if anyone ever studied the fight between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson during their presidential bids, it makes todays politics look downright civil. I will agree with Jazz on his point, right or wrong, truth or lie, its just about winning.. I dont agree with that kind of political posturing, but its a reality. Get tough, play by the same rules, or lose, because you gotta know the other guys won't hold back next time.
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07:39 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
IDK, I gotta agree with Jazzman on this. I think it's part of "the plan" to have both sides fighting about goofy stuff so much that nobody notices when we are slipped into a truly socialist state.
Brad
Politics has always been about distracting the populace with sideshow while the real business is conducted out of sight. That hasn't changed.
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07:42 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32978 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Originally posted by phonedawgz: Obama is starting to talk in a way that makes sense to me. The economy will grow when people start believing in it again. It's damn hard to believe in this debt ridden economy.
Yep, he's talking alright. He talks a lot and he's a prolific speaker. Many (most) folks bought into his kool aide sales pitch. What he says is not necessarily what he will do. Let's see what he does with the new budget that was sent to him cutting 60 billion from this year's budget. I'm betting he won't go along with it. Yeah, he talks a blue streak but it doesn't mean squat.
------------------ Ron
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08:49 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Nah, nobody's going to do that. Just hoping phonedawgz will man up and do the right thing.
We've been hoping you'd man up and do the right thing by hitting the back button on your browser, but we're pretty much resigned ourselves to the fact that you can't make an adult decision and just leave a thread you don't like.
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09:08 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32978 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Does anyone remember what this thread was originally about. Wisconsin wasn't it? It has been successfully derailed or sidetracked, whichever definition floats yer boat.
Gosh, I hate bickering, I think I'll just hit the back button.
Almost a one man show, hey look at me.
------------------ Ron
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09:20 PM
PFF
System Bot
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Virginia schools have better-than-average standardized test scores. Virginia obviously doesn't rank an abysmal 44th in the nation on SATs and ACTs, as supporters of Wisconsin government-employee unions keep falsely claiming. They’re making that claim up because Virginia bans collective bargaining by government employees, and Wisconsin, which currently mandates collective bargaining in government agencies, is considering proposals by its newly-elected conservative governor to bar such bargaining in areas like pensions, which frequently result in government costs being passed on to future generations.
In 2009, Virginia ranked in the middle of states on the ACT and SAT, and in 2010, it actually outranked Wisconsin on the ACT (12th vs. 17th in "average composite score"). The reason it doesn’t rank higher on the SAT is because so many of its students take the test – including marginal students who wouldn’t even take them in another state. (Wisconsin boasts a higher average SAT score than Virginia partly because only "four percent" of Wisconsin students took the SAT, compared to "67 percent" in Virginia. Virginia’s lower average SAT score is a function of a larger pool, not dumb students or bad schools, as PolitiFact pointed out in debunking the false claim that Virginia ranks 44th .)
As the Washington Post once noted, “Virginia public schools are among the top five state school systems in the nation, according to an annual report released yesterday by one of the country's most respected education organizations.”
The flacks for the Wisconsin government-employee unions are also claiming that Wisconsin’s budget crisis was manufactured and that it would be running a surplus if it were not for tax cuts backed by the state’s new governor.
This claim was previously debunked by the liberal-leaning Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, as I noted earlier this week. But it also defies basic math, since those tax cuts were so tiny. As National Review’s Kevin Williamson notes, “How exactly do $137 million in tax cuts cause a $3.6 billion deficit in two years? I am dying to know. . . getting a $3.6 billion deficit out of a $137 million tax cut is a pretty good rabbit-outta-the-hat trick.” Moreover, the cuts haven't even gone into effect yet.
Virginia is fiscally much better run than Wisconsin, which makes it odd that supporters of Wisconsin government-employee unions are so hell-bent on comparing Virginia and Wisconsin. Former Congressional economist Chris Edwards notes that Wisconsin residents “may be interested in comparing their government’s fiscal and union policies with policies in the Old Dominion.”
Wisconsin
•Collective bargaining (monopoly unionism) in place for government workers, with about 52 percent of state/local workers in unions (Source: Table 1 here) •State debt as a share of income: 4.6% (Source: Moody’s) •State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 32% (Source: Andrew Biggs) •Score on quality of state government management: B- (Source: Pew Center) •Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: B- Virginia
•Collective bargaining in state and local government banned by a 1993 statute signed into law by Democratic Governor Douglas Wilder •State debt as a share of income: 2.1% •State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 17% •Score on quality of state government management: A- •Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: A" Wisconsin is one of the most heavily-taxed states in the country, and its government employees are paid much better than the state’s taxpayers. Even if the Wisconsin governor’s proposed restrictions on collective bargaining and restrictions on employee benefits become law, Wisconsin government employees will still be paid better than in most states, and have more collective bargaining rights than in many states – like in the states of Virginia, Georgia, Texas, and the Carolinas, where collective bargaining by government employees is banned. They will also have less work to do than employees in other Midwestern states like Indiana, which have far fewer public employees per capita.
It’s also not true that “tea baggers” or “right-wing Republicans” are responsible for Virginia’s ban on collective bargaining in government agencies. As Edwards notes, Virginia’s ban is contained in a 1993 law signed into law by a Democratic governor (with bipartisan support).
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09:27 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I’m going to bankrupt this country by any means necessary, and if you try to stop me or slow me down, I’ll shut the government down and blame it on you. If you try to stop me, you can kiss your political careers good-bye. Isn’t this essentially what Barack Obama and his allies in the US Senate are saying to the Republican leaders in Congress?
One thing is certain; it’s not an idle threat. Obama and his allies control the executive branch of the government and the United States Senate. They also control the Mainstream Media. On top of that, they control the unions, which they are sending into the streets.
Our great nation is on the verge of bankruptcy: The untenable national debt stands at 14 trillion dollars. When the people cried out and demanded that Washington put a stop to the out-of-control waste and spending, Barack Obama instead responded by proposing a budget that, by his own calculations, doubles our already untenable debt over the next decade.
Americans assumed wrongly that Obama would change accordingly after taking his election “shellacking.” He said the day after the elections, “And I told John Boehner and Mitch McConnell last night, I am very eager to sit down with members of both parties and figure out how we can move forward together.” His compromising rhetoric worked to get Americans to back-off and lower their defenses.
In reality, when the Republican-led House of Representatives put forth legislation to cut our out-of-control deficit by 61 billion dollars, a mere 3.7 percent of our deficit and a scant 0.4 percent of our national debt, Barack Obama and his allies in Congress threatened to shut the government down.
In the days that follow, more protests will break out in a number of states across the nation. It is only the beginning of a prolonged battle for the future of America.
Barack Obama and his allies heard the message voters sent in November loud and clear and they are striking back. The chaos in Madison, Wisconsin is precisely the future Barack Obama wishes for every state in the union. It’s the “change” he really promised when he campaigned in 2008 because only economic paralysis can pave the way for him to press forward with his extreme agenda.
If you believe that these Wisconsin protests are a local issue you’re sorely mistaken. If you believe that these protests are, in actuality, about public-sector union employees demanding more of your hard-earned money during a time of extreme economic distress while the rest of the nation suffers, you’re still missing a huge part of the picture.
These protesters are being used. Joseph Stalin coined the phrase, “useful idiots.” These protesters are dupes. They are pawns in a very dangerous game that Barack Obama is playing with the United States of America. Barack Obama and his allies tell us that they are only supporting the Wisconsin demonstrations because they care about the teachers, because they care about the children, but the end result of Obama’s support for these demonstrations cannot be ignored.
Barack Obama, through his support of the Wisconsin demonstrations, is essentially ensuring that no state, which is attempting to balance its budget, can do so. It’s not enough, for him, to bankrupt and indenture the federal government to our foreign creditors and our enemies abroad; he must bankrupt the states as well. We’re not questioning Obama’s motives; we’re simply looking at the fruits of his actions.
Obama is not just giving these demonstrators rhetorical support. As Senator Jim DeMint recently noted, Obama’s “political machine, Organizing for America, is on the ground ginning up opposition to Wisconsin Republicans who are trying desperately to balance their budget. Make no mistake, the Democrat Party is bought and paid for by the unions.”
Of course, some of our elected officials are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt. They accuse him of a “lack of leadership;” but does Obama really lack leadership?
We believe the actual end-game is to bankrupt the United States of America. And by bringing this country to its knees, he can then remold it from the ground up and move it ever closer to socialism. Former Obama Administration “Green Czar” Van Jones put it this way: Revolutions are sold from the “top-down, bottom-up, and inside-out.”
“Top-down, bottom-up, and inside-out.” Are we in the midst of a political revolution?
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09:33 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
One of the main groups organizing the Wisconsin union protests is a spinoff from an activist academy modeled after Marxist community organizer Saul Alinsky and described as teaching tactics of direct action, confrontation and intimidation.
President Obama once funded that academy - the radical Midwest Academy. He has been closely tied to the group's founder, socialist activist Heather Booth.
Obama also is closely tied to scores of other radicals behind the Wisconsin opposition protesting Gov. Scott Walker's proposal for most state workers to pay 12 percent of their health care premiums and 5.8 percent of their salary toward their own pensions.
Walker's proposal reportedly would save $300 million in the next two years for a state that faces a financial crisis amid a $3.6 billion deficit..
A slew of radical groups and unions have been organizing the protests against Walker's proposal as well as counter protests to a recent tea party rally in support of the governor's plan.
Obama's own political machine has aided in organizing protests in Wisconsin
Counter protests were led in part by radical groups like Veterans for Peace, Freedom Road Socialist Organization, and the Workers World Party.
One of the main organizers of the recent Wisconsin protests is a group called Moving Wisconsin Forward. An associated group, Citizen Action of Wisconsin, is part of the Moving Wisconsin Forward movement.
Robert Kraig, executive director of Citizen Action of Wisconsin, has been widely quoted in the media as a main protest organizer and opposition leader.
Citizen Action of Wisconsin, part of a larger national Citizen Action chain, sits in a coalition with Americans for Financial Reform, which is led by Midwest founder Booth.
Indeed, Citizen Action is a spinoff of Midwest Academy.
'Redistribution of wealth and power'
Midwest founder Booth has stated building a ''progressive majority'' would help for ''a fair distribution of wealth and power and opportunity."
Booth founded Midwest in the 1970s with her husband, Paul Booth, a founder and the former national secretary of Students for a Democratic Society, the radical 1960s anti-war movement from which William Ayers' domestic Weather Underground terrorist organization splintered.
The Woods Fund, a nonprofit on which Obama served as paid director from 1999 to December 2002, provided capital to the Midwest Academy. WND was first to report Obama sat on the Woods Fund board alongside Ayers.
In 1999, Booth's Midwest Academy received $75,000 from the Woods Fund. In 2002, with Obama still serving on the Woods Fund, Midwest received another $23,500 for its Young Organizers Development Program.
Midwest describes itself as "one of the nation's oldest and best-known schools for community organizations, citizen organizations and individuals committed to progressive social change."
It later morphed into a national organizing institute for an emerging network of organizations known as Citizen Action.
Discover the Networks describes Midwest as "teach[ing] tactics of direct action, confrontation, and intimidation."
Camp Obama
WND was first to report Jackie Kendall, executive director of the Midwest Academy, was on the team that developed and delivered the first Camp Obama training for volunteers aiding Obama's campaign through the 2008 Iowa Caucuses.
Camp Obama was a two-to-four day intensive course run in conjunction with Obama's campaign aimed at training volunteers to become activists to help Obama win the presidential election.
Earlier this week, Obama's Organizing for America sent out a mass e-mail it will train a new team of summer organizers.
"The Summer Organizing Fellowship is a grassroots program that aims to put boots on the ground and help foster a new generation of leaders – not just to help win elections, but to strengthen our democracy in communities across the country," the blast e-mail said.
Aside from helping to fund Midwest, Obama has been tied to Booth in other ways. In August 1998, Obama participated in a panel discussion following the opening performance in Chicago of the play "The Love Song of Saul Alinsky," a work described by the Chicago Sun-Times as "bringing to life one of America's greatest community organizers."
Obama participated in the discussion alongside other Alinskyites, including Booth, political analyst Aaron Freeman, Don Turner of the Chicago Federation of Labor and Northwestern University history professor Charles Paine.
"Alinsky had so much fire burning within," stated local actor Gary Houston, who portrayed Alinsky in the play. "There was a lot of complexity to him. Yet he was a really cool character."
Booth herself is a notorious radical community activist and self-described dedicated disciple of Alinsky, of whom she says: "Alinsky is to community-organizing as Freud is to psychoanalysis."
Booth's vision of uniting various left-leaning organizations and factions also has been the subject of her two books, "Toward a Radical Movement and Citizen Action" and "The New American Populism."
Other radicals behind Wisconsin rallies
The keynote speaker at last week's "Moving Wisconsin Forward" rally was John Nichols, who identifies himself as a "progressive" writer.
Nichols co-authored four books and a number of major articles with Marxist activist Robert W. McChesney, founder of the George Soros-funded Free Press.
McChesney has called for the dismantlement "brick-by-brick" of the U.S. capitalist system, with America being rebuilt as a socialist society.
Free Press openly lobbies for move government control of the news media and Internet. It has been closely tied to the Obama administration.
As WND first reported Ben Scott, the State Department's recently appointed policy adviser for innovation, was policy director at Free Press. Scott authored several articles with McChesney.
The board of Free Press has included a slew of radicals, such as Obama's former "green jobs" czar Van Jones, who resigned after it was exposed he founded a communist organization.
Obama's "Internet czar," Susan P. Crawford, spoke at a Free Press's May 14, 2009, "Changing Media" summit in Washington, D.C.
Crawford's pet project, OneWebNow, lists as "participating organizations" Free Press and the controversial Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN.
Crawford and Kevin Werbach, who co-directed the Obama transition team's Federal Communications Commission Review team, are advisory board members at Public Knowledge, a George Soros-funded public interest group.
In February 2009 McChesney wrote in a column, "In the end, there is no real answer but to remove brick-by-brick the capitalist system itself, rebuilding the entire society on socialist principles."
Communists into union protest organizer
Another main Wisconsin protest organizer has been the AFL-CIO, the nation's largest union.
In November , Obama gave the presidential Medal of Freedom – the nation's highest civilian honor – to John Sweeney, the AFL-CIO's president emeritus who retired last year.
Sweeney is a socialist activist and a card-carrying member of the Democratic Socialists of America, or DSA, the principal American affiliate of the Socialist International. The DSA has demonstrated a close relationship with Obama over the years.
Sweeney is a member of the DSA's Boston chapter. He served as president of AFL-CIO from 1995 until his retirement last September.
He previously served for four terms as president of the controversial Service Employees International Union, or SEIU. During his administration, Sweeney famously aligned the SEIU with ACORN and other leftist groups.
Activist and author Joel Kotkin, a fellow at the Progressive Policy Institute, observed how Sweeney brought communists into his union leadership.
"The public-sector unions have pushed the entire labor movement to the left," he said. "The [SEIU] has embraced organizations with a New Left origin, such as ACORN and Cleveland's Nine to Five, and has even set up its own gay and lesbian caucus. ... The rise of these unions led to the elevation of SEIU's boss, John Sweeney, to head of the labor federation.
"No George Meaney-style bread-and-butter unionist, Sweeney is an advocate of European-style democratic socialism," said Kotkin. "He has opened the AFL-CIO to participation by delegates openly linked to the Communist Party, which enthusiastically backed his ascent. The U.S. Communist Party [CPUSA] says it is now 'in complete accord' with the AFL-CIO's program. 'The radical shift in both leadership and policy is a very positive, even historic change,' wrote CPUSA National Chairman Gus Hall in 1996 after the AFL-CIO convention."
Upon assuming the office of the AFL-CIO in 1995, Sweeney was quick to rescind one of the union's founding rules that banned Communist Party members and loyalists from leadership positions within the federation and its unions. Sweeney welcomed Communist Party delegates to positions of power in his federation.
Linda Chavez and Daniel Gray, in their book "Betrayal: How union bosses shake down their bosses and corporate America," state Sweeney placed a number of DSA allies in his union office.
The DSA's official website carries an endorsement from Sweeney: "I'm proud to a member of a movement for change that puts the cause of working people at the heart of the matter."
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09:45 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Sometimes it's necessary to get out on the streets and "get a little bloody," a Massachusetts Democrat said Tuesday in reference to labor battles in Wisconsin.
Rep. Michael Capuano (D-Mass.) fired up a group of union members in Boston with a speech urging them to work down in the trenches to fend off limits to workers' rights like those proposed in Wisconsin.
"I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going," Capuano said, according to the Statehouse News. "Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary."
Political observers have been the lookout for potentially incendiary rhetoric in the wake of January's shooting in Tucson, Ariz., where Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D) survived an assassination attempt, six were killed, and 12 others were injured.
On Wednesday afternoon, Capuano issued a brief apology: "I strongly believe in standing up for worker rights and my passion for preserving those rights may have gotten the best of me yesterday in an unscripted speech. I wish I had used different language to express my passion and I regret my choice of words." Political rhetoric has become especially heated in Madison, Wis., where Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed major labor reforms that sparked more than a week's worth of rowdy protests at the state capitol.
"We take security seriously, whether it's for me, the lieutenant governor and all 132 members of the state legislature, Democrats or Republicans alike, because there's a lot of passion down here," Walker said Tuesday on MSNBC about his safety in Wisconsin. "And particularly when we see people coming in being bussed in from other states, that's what worries us."
Capuano made his remarks before a crowd of union members in Boston, along with other members of the state's congressional delegation. Massachusetts has an influential union population that could loom large over the 2012 Senate race. Capuano is considering getting in that race to challenge Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) next fall.
“This is going to be a struggle at least for the next two years. Let’s be serious about this. They’re not going to back down and we’re not going to back down. This is a struggle for the hearts and minds of America,” Capuano told union members.
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10:06 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
With the entire nation watching, Wisconsinites are now debating whether the state’s public school teachers ought to be required to pay 5.8 percent of their wages to support their own retirement plans and 12.6 percent of their own health-insurance premiums, and also whether their union ought to be able to negotiate a pay increase on their behalf that exceeds the rate of inflation without letting voters approve or disapprove that raise in a referendum.
What Wisconsin ought to be debating is whether these public school teachers should keep their jobs at all. Then every state ought to follow Wisconsin in the same debate.
It is time to drive public schools out of business by driving them into an open marketplace where they must directly compete with schools not run by the government or staffed by members of parasitic public employees’ unions.
The well-documented incompetence of America’s public schools—including Wisconsin’s—is damaging our nation. Their educational product is simply not good enough for our children. In some cases, it is toxic.
According to data collected and published by the U.S. Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), Wisconsin’s public schools have been consuming more and more tax dollars over the years while doing a consistently miserable job educating children in the basics of reading and math.
Nor are Wisconsin’s public schools unusual.
In fiscal 1998, according to the NCES, Wisconsin spent $7,123 per pupil in its public primary and secondary schools. In the Department of Education’s National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) reading test that year, Wisconsin public school eighth-graders scored an average of 266 out of a possible 500. As a result of that test, only 33 percent of Wisconsin’s public school eighth-graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading.
By 2008, Wisconsin was spending $10,791 per pupil in its public primary and secondary schools. Yet, in the 2009 NAEP reading test, Wisconsin public school eighth-graders again scored an average of only 266 out of a possible 500. Only 34 percent earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading.
When the $7,123 per pupil Wisconsin spent in its public schools in 1998 is adjusted for inflation, it equals $9,408 in 2008 dollars. Thus, even though Wisconsin increased per pupil spending by $1,383 dollars from 1998 to 2008 (from $9,408 to $10,791), it did not gain a single point on its average eighth-grade reading score.
Wisconsin had similar results in math. In 1996, the state’s public school eighth-graders scored an average of 283 out of 500 in math. In 2008, they scored an average of 288 out of 500 -- or 1 percent higher than in 1996.
As bad as they are, Wisconsin’s tests scores are slightly better than the national average for public-school students.
In 1998, American public school eighth-graders averaged 261 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. In 2009, they averaged 262 out of 500. In 1996, they averaged 271 out of 500 on the NAEP math test. In 2009, they averaged 282.
In 2009, only 30 percent of American public school eighth-graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading. Only 32 percent earned a rating of “proficient” or better in math.
This ignorance did not come cheap. Nationwide, according to the NCES, public schools spent $10,297 per pupil in fiscal 2008.
Does anybody do better with less money? Yes.
In 2009, the eighth-graders in Catholic schools averaged 281 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test -- 19 points higher than the average American public school eighth-grader and 15 points higher than the average eighth-grader in a Wisconsin public schools. On the math test, eighth-graders in Catholic schools averaged 297 out of 500, compared to an average of 282 for eighth-graders in public schools nationwide and 288 for public school eighth-graders in Wisconsin.
In the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, as noted on the archdiocese’s website, Catholic elementary school tuitions range from $900 per child at St. Adalberts in Milwaukee to the $5,105 for a non-parishioner child at St. Alphonsus in Greenhdale.
In addition to being less expensive and better than public schools at teaching math and reading, Catholic schools—like any private schools—can also teach students that there is a God, that the Ten Commandments are true and must be followed, that the Founding Fathers believed in both and that, ultimately, American freedom depends on fidelity to our Judeo-Christian heritage even more than it depends on proficiency in reading and math.
What every state in the union ought to do is take a look at the public school teachers protesting in Wisconsin, take a look at the test scores for the nation’s public school students, take a look at the $10,000 per year it typically takes to keep a child in a public school and pass new laws with three simple provisions: 1) every parent of every child in every school district in the state shall receive an annual voucher equal to the per-pupil cost of maintaining a child in the state’s public schools, 2) they shall be entitled to redeem this voucher at any school they like, and 2) the state shall not regulate the private schools, period.
Let American parents decide who will be their partners in forming the hearts and minds of their children.
Does anyone remember what this thread was originally about. Wisconsin wasn't it? It has been successfully derailed or sidetracked, whichever definition floats yer boat.
Gosh, I hate bickering, I think I'll just hit the back button.
Almost a one man show, hey look at me.
Wow--could you maybe, write up a tutorial or something? Pics?? I'm confused--which is the "back button? How many times do I hit it? How hard? Right or left click?
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10:39 PM
Feb 26th, 2011
cliffw Member
Posts: 37753 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
MADISON, Wisconsin — Tens of thousands of people protested in Wisconsin on Saturday against a state government push to curb the power of public sector unions, sparking solidarity rallies for labor rights around the United States.
Protesters see the proposals as an effort to weaken the labor movement. Other states considering similar proposals include Ohio, Tennessee, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa and Kansas.
Several thousand protesters gathered in New York City and Los Angeles, about 1,000 people turned out in Chicago, Denver and Columbus, Ohio, several hundred rallied in Austin, Texas, and about 100 people joined a protest in Miami.
At the Wisconsin state Capitol in Madison, thousands of protesters chanted underneath Republican Governor Scott Walker's office window: "Hey hey, ho ho, Scott Walker has got to go."
"Union busting is wrong," said Joe Soto, a 56-year-old steamfitter from Reedsburg, northwest of Madison.
Wisconsin's state Assembly on Friday approved Walker's proposal to strip public sector unions of most collective bargaining rights. The plan now needs state Senate approval, but Senate Democrats have fled Wisconsin to prevent a vote.
The bid by Wisconsin Republicans to try and balance the state budget by rewriting labor laws has turned into a national standoff with Republicans and business interests on one side, and Democrats and union groups on the other.
"When a governor refuses to invest in the people who educate our children and keep us safe, he needs to know this will not stand," actor Bradley Whitford, who played a White House staffer on "The West Wing" TV series and is a Wisconsin native, told the protesters in Madison.
'Unjust, unfair' The stakes are high for labor groups because more than a third of U.S. public employees, including teachers, police and civil service workers, belong to unions. Only about six percent of private sector workers are unionized.
"We bailed out Goldman Sachs, we bailed out Wall Street, we bailed out GM, but the hell with our teachers, our fire fighters, our nurses, our city workers, our state workers! I'm here because that's unjust, unfair," said Raymond Wohl, a teacher for 20 years, at the Chicago protest.
Doug Frank, 51, said he drove three-and-a-half hours from his home in Crosby to attend the protest in Austin.
"This is finally the one that pushed me over the edge," said Frank, an oil and gas laboratory technician.
"What they're trying to do (in Wisconsin) is very heavy-handed; it's un-American," he said.
In New York, people waved signs reading "Cut bonuses, not teachers," "Unions make us strong," and "Wall St is destroying America," and wore stickers that read "We are all Wisconsin."
Anne O'Byrne, 44, a philosophy professor at Stony Brook University who brought her daughter Sophia, 2, to the New York rally, said she was disturbed by events in Wisconsin.
"If we don't have collective bargaining rights I don't know what's left for workers in America," she said. "It seems important to me to resist any attempt to take away those union rights that have in fact brought us so much over the years."
John Cody, 26, of the Civilian Complaint Review Board, said unions were "under assault" in the United States and some protesters had drawn inspiration from the popular uprisings in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia.
"Egypt is inspiring Americans and labor movements," he said. "Unions need to work like the corporations in some ways in that the world's become a globalized economy so unions need to show acts of solidarity not only across the United States but across the world."
What I don't understand is if we all have to make sacrifices and take cuts, why don't the unions have to do the same?
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 02-26-2011).]
What I don't understand is if we all have to make sacrifices and take cuts, why don't the unions have to do the same?
That's one of those rights the Constitution doesn't enumerate, a1, but Mr. Obama is certain it is in there. Public employee unions sacrifice so much that they should be considered very differently from other workers of any kind.
"We just won an election," labor boss Andy Stern crowed two years ago, at about the time Barack Obama was taking the oath of office and the union movement was giving itself the lion's share of the credit for getting him there. After spending some $450 million to elect Obama and a supporting cast of Democrats, labor was calling in the chits: universal health care, higher taxes on the wealthy and so-called card-check voting rules to make it easier to unionize private employers.
For the latest reminder that two years is forever in politics, look how the mighty have fallen. The movement got only part of what it wanted from health care reform. On taxes and card check, zip. And across the country, new leaders are being sworn in to office with decidedly antiunion plans.
Formerly friendly Wisconsin has a new governor, Republican Scott Walker, who is promising to use "every legal means" to weaken the bargaining power of state workers--including decertification of the public employees' union. Ohio's new governor, Republican John Kasich, wants to end the rule that requires nonunion contractors to pay union wages, and he's targeting the right of public employees to strike. Indiana legislators talk of making their state--once a bastion of unionized manufacturing--a Midwestern right-to-work redoubt.
Even in places where Democrats cling to power, unions are under the gun. New York's incoming governor, Andrew Cuomo--son of the labor darling Mario Cuomo--intends to freeze the salaries of the state's 190,000 government workers and has promised to cinch the budget belt tighter when public union contracts are renegotiated this year. In California, new governor Jerry Brown--who gave public employees the right to unionize when he was governor in the 1970s--returns to his old post talking darkly about the unsustainable drain that union pensions and health benefits are on the state's budget.
What changed? You could turn Stern's words back on him. Labor just lost an election, swamped by the Republican tide. But even more damaging is the hangover from the financial crash of 2008. Though stock prices have largely rebounded, the crisis laid bare the absurdly rosy scenarios that propped up the pension plans of public employees. Now governments at every level--federal, state and local--are under extraordinary pressure to balance their books.
The gleam in labor's eye two years ago turned out to be the light from an onrushing train.
BRad
[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 02-26-2011).]
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08:38 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
First lady Michelle Obama said, “Let’s Move!” Who knew Democratic politicians in Wisconsin and Indiana would take her literally?
Faced with stifling debt, bloated pensions and intractable government unions, liberal Midwestern legislators have fled those states — paralyzing Republican fiscal reform efforts. Like Monty Python’s Brave Sir Robin and his band of quivering knights, these elected officials have only one plan when confronted with political hardship or economic peril: Run away, run away, run away.
Scores of Fleebagger Democrats are now in hiding in neighboring Illinois, the nation’s sanctuary for political crooks and corruptocrats. Soon, area hotels will be announcing a special discount rate for card-carrying FleePAC winter convention registrants. Question: Will the White House count the economic stimulus from the mass Democratic exodus to Illinois as jobs “saved” or “created”? More important question: How much are taxpayers being charged for these obstructionist vacations?
Voters have spoken: In Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio and across the heartland, they put Republican adults in charge of cleaning up profligate Democrat-engineered messes. Instead of defending their same old tax-hiking, union-protecting, spending-addicted ways, Democrats are crossing their state borders into big government sanctuary zones — screaming “la, la, la, we can’t hear you” all the way.
Wisconsin Democrats warned that their delinquent members — evading state troopers and literally phoning it in — could be gone “for weeks” to prevent a quorum on GOP Gov. Scott Walker’s modest plan to increase public union workers’ health insurance and pension contributions, end the compulsory union dues racket and rein in collective bargaining powers run amok.
Big Labor insists its intransigence isn’t about money, but about “rights.” But the dispute is about nothing but money and power — the union’s power to dictate and limit its members’ health insurance choices to a lucrative union-run plan, for example, which adds nearly $70 million in unnecessary taxpayer costs.
On Tuesday, only three of 40 House Democrats in Indiana showed up for legislative debate on a similar bill to end forced unionism and join 22 other “right to work” states. Hoosier media reported that some of the fugitive pols may be headed to Kentucky in addition to President Obama’s old political stomping grounds.
The White House and Beltway Democrats have paved the way for subverting deliberative democracy, of course. If only Republicans in Wisconsin and Indiana had followed the Obama/Pelosi/Reid model and rammed their behind-closed-doors-crafted legislative agenda through in the middle of the night on a holiday weekend, the Fleebaggers wouldn’t be on the lam today. But GOP legislators just don’t roll that way. It’s Democrats who cut and run — abroad in wartime and at home in crisis.
Almost eight years ago, more than 50 Texas Democratic state lawmakers holed up in Oklahoma and New Mexico for weeks to stymie a vote on Republican-sponsored redistricting plans they opposed. Over the past week, it was thousands of public school teachers in Wisconsin who faked illness and boycotted their classrooms. And it’s union henchmen calling out loud for statewide strikes to bring Republican reformers to their knees.
The Party of Truancy has become a laughingstock — and Americans aren’t waiting for left-wing late-night comedians to bring down the hammer of well-earned mockery. The Internet has lit up over the past week with “Wanted” posters and all-points-bulletin alerts for missing Democrats.
Blogger John Hayward of the conservative Human Events newspaper joked that “the next issue of National Geographic will track the migratory patterns of fugitive Democrats across the great plains.” Seton Motley of the Washington, D.C.-based Media Research Center weighed in: “First, Wisconsin. Now, Indiana. When we said ‘runaway government,’ it was a complaint — not a suggestion.” Comedian Stephen Kruiser snickered that OFA — the Democrats’ political organizing arm, Organizing for America — now stands for “Organizing Fleeing Americans.”
Note: Many of the loudest Washington and Hollywood critics of former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s decision to resign from office in 2009 are themselves now AWOL on the Wisconsin and Indiana AWOL-ians. Who’s all for mocking “quitters” now? Anyone?
One mortified Wisconsin taxpayer speaks for many. “As the daughter of former Wisconsin Senate Minority Floor Leader William R. Moser (D-Milwaukee, Dist. 6),” Mary Magdalen Moser told me, she’s humiliated by the “flee-bagging” politicians. “I am ashamed of the actions taken by the minority party to subvert our system of government by boycotting its legitimate processes. Anarchy is undemocratic, and I know that my Dad is spinning in his grave right now. … I do not support refusing to participate, because that will not solve any of the issues facing our state.”
Remember the 2008 Democratic Party chant: “Fired up! Ready to go!” Well, there’s a new Democratic Party motto in town: “Ready to go? OK, then, let’s blow this pop stand!” It’s difficult to see how Obama and his absconder allies can “win the future” when they’re stampeding over each other to escape the present.
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09:11 PM
Feb 27th, 2011
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
One of the first things you learn on the school yard is how to play fair and play by the rules. Pick the game, it doesn’t matter—you play it to the finish, you play hard, you play by the rules and if you don’t win you are taught to come back and play another day.
Democrat legislators in Wisconsin and Indiana apparently have never learned this simple little basic rule of life and the media sits around speechless. When they have spoken, some have even called this a “brilliant political maneuver.”
They have fled their respective states because they do not believe they can win pending votes on budget matters. So, the moral to this story is, “If it looks like you’re gonna lose, leave. Leave the state and don’t come back until you get your way.”
I guess a generation or two of playing soccer without keeping score is finally having an effect on some supposed adults.
The activist old media is virtually silent on this issue because they are sympathetic to the Democrat’s politics. Something you are told not to do as an unbiased journalist, but, as we all know, the journalism train has also long since left these states to parts unknown. Perhaps that’s how the activist old media has been able to find these legislators to do interviews with them. These child-like legislators are more than willing to approach the safety of their activist old media and their comforting, sympathetic questions, but refuse to enter the arena of ideas where they would be confronted by those frightening Republicans. There was another phrase we used on the playground for these types and I will just use the acronym here, CS.
Listen, what do legislators do other than sit in a bubble and vote? Vote. Oh, they have to run for office every few years, but other than that, they are in the safety of their State Capitol buildings where they push a button, yea or nea, and then move on to the next issue. That’s why Senators make horrible Presidents. They sit in bubbles and vote and never have to deal with substantive issues of governance.
Democrats have a history of doing this. It happened in Texas a couple years ago until Republican Governor Rick Perry told them they had to pay their own expenses while hiding out in Oklahoma to avoid a vote they were going to lose. Waaaaaaaaaaa!
You only act this foolish when you know the media will not call you on it and will be sympathetic to your cause. The kids who take the ball and run away know they can get away with it if their parents and teachers pander to their selfishness. Right now, they are getting away with it. Picture a scenario where Republicans acted the same way and tell me the media would not rightly be ripping them a new one right now.
How long will this silly little game play itself out? Hard to say. In Wisconsin legislators say they will stay away as long as they have to until they get their way. The activist old media will continue its comforting sound bites and somebody (it sounds like Governor Scott Walker in this case) needs to tell them they won’t be getting their orange slices after the game.
I say they should dress up some state troopers as reporters and send them to these coward's homes and hideouts. I bet they show their faces for this and then they can escort them back so this whole fiasco can end. They also should pass a law that lets the governor replace them after so many days, for dereliction of duty, maybe then they will think twice about doing this. The people spoke when they voted and these legislator no longer are representing them. I hope the voters remember this on the next election and don't keep voting them in.
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10:17 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
As the intense protests in Wisconsin move into their second week, The New American took a look at Gov. Scott Walker’s proposed reforms, critics’ claims, as well as the fiscal situation of the state. It turns out state and local governments are facing massive deficits, and the unfunded government-employee pension liabilities are enormous. The so-called “budget repair bill” would aim to start solving some of the problems.
In a nutshell, the legislation that prompted the original outburst would force most state employees to contribute more to their pensions and health benefits than they currently do. When all of the increases are taken together, the changes would result in about an eight percent decrease in take-home pay for most government personnel, excluding public safety workers like police and firefighters.
The bill would also prohibit most government workers from collectively bargaining for anything other than their salaries, or from demanding pay increases above the Consumer Price Index measure of inflation. To bypass the salary cap would require voter approval. Additionally, the bill would stop unions from forcing public employees to pay dues. It would also cut some spending in an effort to rein in the state’s massive budget deficit.
Gov. Walker explained the situation in a speech to legislators: "Most state workers only pay about 6 percent of their premium costs for their health care plan," he said. "Asking public employees to make ... a premium payment of 12 percent, which is about half of the national average, would save the state more than $30 million over three months." In reality, the 12 percent figure is even less than half of the average. A study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that the national average contribution toward healthcare policies among government and private-sector workers was almost 30 percent.
In addition to the increased contributions from state- and local-government workers toward their healthcare premiums, Gov. Walker’s plan would force the employees to pay almost six percent of their salaries toward pension costs, up from less than one percent right now. Making a comparison here is difficult.
The vast majority of workers in the private sector don’t even have pension plans. Often-volatile and non-guaranteed retirement benefits such as 401(k) plans are the norm among the non-government workers who do have any sort of employer-sponsored retirement package. But among government employees nationally, Walker’s 5.8 percent-contribution proposal still falls short of the average, which is around 6.3 percent.
As Gov. Walker put it in his speech to legislators: "Most workers outside of government would love a deal like that — particularly if it means saving jobs." And that is almost certainly true.
Of course, many government employees argue that they receive such generous health insurance and pension plans — not to mention virtually assured job security — due to generally lower pay than their private-sector counterparts. Various organizations have produced studies which purport to prove and disprove the allegation. But based on some anecdotal evidence gathered from Wisconsin, government workers are very well paid to say the least, even considering that workers like teachers, for example, have at least a four-year degree.
In Milwaukee, the MacIver Institute, citing local authorities, offered some startling numbers: the average Milwaukee teacher will receive more than $100,000 in 2011 compensation, plus several months of paid vacation. More than $55,000 of that is salary.
Meanwhile, the average per capita income for Milwaukee residents is below $20,000 per year (though this is admittedly dragged down by the large number of welfare recipients in the city). On top of that, non-government workers generally only have a few weeks of vacation per year.
Average teacher compensation throughout the state is well above $75,000 including several months of paid vacation. For Americans in private industry, average compensation including benefits is around $58,000, according to a study by the Bureau of Labor statistics.
Government-worker unions in Wisconsin have, for the most part, agreed to the increased contributions. The main problem for the protestors deals with their unions.
The reform legislation’s most controversial parts would curtail the power of most state and local employee unions. According to the proposal: “This bill limits the right to collectively bargain for all employees who are not public safety employees (general employees) to the subject of base wages. In addition, unless a referendum authorizes a greater increase, any general employee who is part of a collective bargaining unit is limited to bargaining over a percentage of total base wages increase that is no greater than the percentage change in the consumer price index.” Under the plan, government workers would also vote every year on whether they wanted to keep their unions.
There are, of course, many fiscal reasons for reducing the grip of unions on government coffers, in addition to the fact that it takes far too long to solve the very urgent problems. Gov. Walker outlined a number of examples in a series of press releases posted on his office‘s website.
For one, state education unions prevent massive healthcare cost savings by forcing many employees into inefficient union-run plans. Another specific example: corrections employees collectively bargained for a provision to allow workers who called in sick to earn overtime if they showed up for work the same day. The scheme bilked taxpayers for millions of dollars.
Another problem caused by collective bargaining involves scheduling of workers, which in many cases is based on union dictates instead of operational needs. Collective bargaining also prevented the exploration of more efficient options through privatization, according to the data released by the governor‘s office. And according to Walker, local governments could realize large savings through union reform as well — up to $700 million per year — providing more flexibility to deal with fiscal realities.
But protestors swarming Madison don’t see it that way. And some of their claims about the proposal and Gov. Walker’s efforts, it turns out, are misleading at best. For example:
• Protestors are insisting that their collective-bargaining “rights” are being infringed upon. Of course, what they are really referring to is, in fact, a government-created privilege: the ability to continue demanding ever-greater amounts of taxpayer wealth. Nobody has an unalienable right to force their employer, let alone the taxpayers, to continue handing over more and more money. Plus, the bill does not even abolish unions, it just curtails their powers in a way that Gov. Walker insists is necessary to balance the budget.
• Numerous protest leaders and media commentators have suggested the budget crisis was invented as a pretext to go on a “union busting” spree. Leftist MSNBC personality Rachel Maddow, on February 17, clearly misled viewers when she said: "Despite what you may have heard about Wisconsin’s finances, the state is on track to have a budget surplus this year." The facts prove these and similar claims false. Former Wisconsin Democrat Gov. Jim Doyle, along with Democratic legislators, managed to conceal the problems for years by raiding various state funds, ranging from road-building money to a medical-malpractice compensation fund. And with federal “stimulus” money running out, the problem only grew larger: over the next two years, the state has at least a $3.6 billion budget deficit — probably more. Estimates on the longer-term cost of unfunded state-employee pension liabilities for Wisconsin vary widely, but somewhere around $63 billion seems to be the consensus.
• Another popular talking point used by protestors and their allies is that Gov. Walker and Republican lawmakers caused the budget crisis by passing a tax cut earlier this year. That, too, turns out to be false upon closer scrutiny. In fact, the tax break does not affect 2011’s budget at all, since it does not apply for this fiscal year.
• National organizations and talking heads attempting to drum up support for protestors have repeatedly said the reforms represent an “attack” on “the American Dream” or the “middle class.” While no single established definition exists for either term, the “American Dream” is almost universally understood to mean that the country’s freedom provides the opportunity to chase one’s dreams and eventually achieve success, regardless of circumstances or birth. Middle class is generally understood to mean the broad segment of society that is neither wildly rich nor poor — not government workers or their unions. Efforts to redefine the concepts to encompass government-union organizing or bloated state compensation packages should clearly be seen as disingenuous.
Considering the bleak fiscal situation facing the state, GOP leaders have warned that if the problem is not solved soon, the government could be forced to lay off workers — possibly more than 10,000. Borrowing more money could be an option, too, but it would not be sustainable. Another temporary option to delay solving the fiasco would be to — like the federal government regularly does with the Social Security “trust fund” — raid other state funds. But that’s already been done, and it doesn’t seem like Gov. Walker is interested in kicking the can down the road.
Of course, unions and socialists are urging the government to raise taxes on businesses and “the rich.” But as history and the facts show, such a move would simply exacerbate the problem by chasing more productive people and a larger segment of the tax base out of state, or forcing more firms out of business. But the looming crisis can only be concealed for so long, and if it is not dealt with, analysts warn that it will be even more painful to face in the coming years and decades.
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10:45 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
As Wisconsin private-sector workers went to work and paid their taxes last week, thousands of government-school teachers lied and called in sick so they could attend protests in Madison against Gov. Scott Walker’s proposal to rein in the state’s multi-billion-dollar budget deficit.
In addition to the lying educators, more than a few doctors at the demonstrations were caught on video handing out bogus excuses to whomever asked. And now, the people of Wisconsin and their officials want answers for what critics are referring to as outright “fraud.”
So many teachers skipped school to attend the protests that numerous schools across the state were actually forced to shut down for several days. Estimates on the cost of the teachers’ absences range from $6 million on the low end, to almost $10 million on the higher side. Parents, who generally still had to report for work despite the turmoil, were left scrambling to find something to do with their children as schools closed down.
The missing educators sparked a furor among Wisconsinites and commentators, many of whom are calling for serious consequences. Some are even pushing to have the teachers fired, though union contracts would probably not allow that.
Conservative columnist Michelle Malkin suggested docking their pay. “Turn in a fake doctor’s note … receive a rubber paycheck in return,” she wrote. “Monopoly money will do, too. If these union heavies want to play games with families’ lives, they should reap the consequences to their own bank accounts.” Malkin said recent events were a “perfect illustration” of Democrat Party values: “Educational malpractice. Medical malpractice. Economic malpractice.”
Noting that teachers are supposed to be role models for their students, Washington Post columnist Esther Cepeda blasted the example they were setting. “The teachers were cheese-brained for walking out of work, denying schooling for four days to the very students they profess to care so much about — even after the head of the state's largest teacher's union, the Wisconsin Education Association Council, asked them to return to their classrooms,” the former teacher charged in the piece, entitled “No apple for Wisconsin's teachers.”
And perhaps due to the outrage, at least some school districts have now promised to investigate. According to news reports, school officials in the Madison and Milwaukee school districts intend to verify all sick notes handed in during the relevant period. "There's no rubber stamp," a spokeswoman for the Milwaukee Public Schools told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, noting that the excuse slips would be sent to the human resources department for review.
To see some of the teachers admitting they lied, watch the video below: At least four separate doctors were caught writing bogus notes to cover for the lying teachers. One doctor shown on camera by a local Fox News affiliate was walking around carrying a big sign reading “I’m a doctor — need a note?” Another had a similar placard, reading: “I’m a Dr. — need a work note?”
The Wisconsin-based MacIver News Service also caught several doctors on tape. Watch the video below: But the medical personnel who wrote the fake excuses could be in hot water, too. Both the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and the Wisconsin Medical Society vowed to investigate. "If these reports are accurate, the Society does not condone these actions under any circumstances," the Wisconsin Medical Society said on Monday, noting that it had started to investigate the action during the weekend.
The University was even more blunt. “These UW Health physicians were acting on their own and without the knowledge or approval of UW Health. These charges are very serious,” the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health and the University of Wisconsin Medical Foundation said in a statement, noting that they “immediately launched an investigation of the reported behavior.”
According to the statement, the investigation will work to identify “which physicians were involved and whether their behavior constituted violations of medical ethics or University of Wisconsin and UW Health policies and work rules.” Any disciplinary action taken will follow the University’s “established procedures.” And since it is a “personnel matter,” it will not be public information, the statement said.
Of course, after being caught, some of the doctors tried to justify their actions. “Some people think it’s a nod-and-a-wink thing but it’s not,” University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health Doctor Lou Sanner told the Associated Press. “One of the biggest stresses in life is the threat of loss of income, loss of job, loss of health insurance. People have actually been getting ill from this, or they can’t sleep.” Sanner admitted to writing hundreds of medical-absence excuses.
But prominent voices in the field aren’t buying it. “When all’s said and done, it’s really the profession of medicine that has the black eye in this case,” Arthur Derse, the director of the Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities at the Medical College of Wisconsin, told The Atlantic after seeing the videos of doctors writing fake notes.
While analysts and media commentators call for the teachers who lied to be fired or at least punished, others are hoping the doctors who engaged in fraud by writing the fake notes will lose their medical licenses. Whether there will be consequences remains to be seen, but the anger over the lies is growing as awareness continues to build.
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10:47 AM
Gall757 Member
Posts: 10938 From: Holland, MI Registered: Jun 2010
I thought Guv Walker did a pretty good job on the Sunday morning TV....it was a bit hard to understand some of his arguments, but after a while I sort of 'got it'. I hope he will accept a bit of compromise eventually.
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10:57 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
“I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once in a while you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,” he continued.
... Ironically, while liberal Democratic congressmen are directly instructing crowds of union protesters to engage in violent bloodshed for the sake of political change, the liberal mainstream media make the unsubstantiated claim that conservatives are somehow guilty of using violent rhetoric that mysteriously caused gunman Jared Lee Loughner's shooting rampage in Arizona — all in spite of the fact that there has not been one documented example of any Republican elected official instructing Tea Party activists or any other constituents to “get a little bloody.”
... It's hardly the first time he has evoked a certain amount of violence with his words. In the late 1990s, Capuano allegedly threatened to beat a dog to death because it came too close to one of his kids. Earlier this year, when discussing running for Senate, he said, "Nothing wrong with throwing a coffee cup at someone if you’re doing it for human rights.”
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12:28 PM
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
