quote Originally posted by Fiero STS: Apperently you were not paying too much attention to the healthcare issues on a national level.

No, i think that is a lost cause. Its either going to go and thrive or be beaten down and i dont want to have any part of something that would prevent people from being allowed to live.

You missed the point completly or are ignoring it. Democrats did the samre thing on a national level that the republicans in WI are doing.

quote Originally posted by ramsespride No, i think that is a lost cause. Its either going to go and thrive or be beaten down and i dont want to have any part of something that would prevent people from being allowed to live.

So... can you please explain how does defeating Obamacare prevent people from being allowed to live?

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-02-2011).]

Look, on a national level i try to be uninvolved. Locally however, where it matters most, i am involved. My own backyard is where i want things to be good, the rest of the country, yeah, make it good but as for me doing that, i would rather not have blood on my hands.

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: Look, on a national level i try to be uninvolved. Locally however, where it matters most, i am involved. My own backyard is where i want things to be good, the rest of the country, yeah, make it good but as for me doing that, i would rather not have blood on my hands.

Wow , Just wow .

quote Originally posted by Fiero STS: Wow , Just wow .

What point are you trying to make? I honestly cant deduce it.

That is your problem, you don't know what people are talking about and yet you want to have an opinion on things you have little experience or knowledge in. I'm not saying to you aren't entitled to an opinion, you are. You should educate yourself more in these matters before you make an uninformed opinion. It isn't fair to everyone and yourself when you do that.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-02-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: How many times am i going to say it? I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING SO STOP YOUR BULLSHIT ASSUMPTIONS THAT I DO.

I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just reading what you are writing, your pronouncements and conclusions, which show your lack of experience.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just reading what you are writing, your pronouncements and conclusions, which show your lack of experience.

Or perhaps lack of experience in communicating through typed text. Nobody knows that i havent been typing on a computer that long. I prefer to write by hand. Less grammatical errors, and i can keep on track most of the time.

I am done with this argument, i am the bigger man by walking away, Wisconsin is my home, MY home not yours Fierobear, You may be a Republican but that means nothing in regards to what goes on in MY home.

Carry on gentlemen, im sure there are other people you would like to tear apart because they dont align with your Republican ideals.

quote Originally posted by ramsespride I am done with this argument, i am the bigger man by walking away,

So this is why the Liberal Senators left town too? I guess if one leaves an argument they don't have to defend their point when they are losing. I guess you are only following their example.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-02-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: I am done with this argument, i am the bigger man by walking away, Wisconsin is my home, MY home not yours Fierobear, You may be a Republican but that means nothing in regards to what goes on in MY home.

Wisconsin is going broke because it's been run by DEMOCRATS for a long time. California is going broke because it's been run by DEMOCRATS for a long time. Our homes have the SAME problems, caused by the SAME policies. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that.

The only hope to fix the problems of BOTH of our home states is Republicans who are willing to make the tough decisions. The Democrats have shown NO sign they are willing to actually fix the problem.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Wisconsin voters express buyer’s remorse over Gov. Scott Walker

Kind of how the nation feels about your (not so) smart kid.
Missed the polls you posted about this!

quote Originally posted by avengador1: So this is why the Liberal Senators left town too? I guess if one leaves an argument they don't have to defend their point when they are losing. I guess you are only following their example.

Just like when many of the liberals suddenly shut up and disappeared after the 2008 election. Most of them can't deal with the criticism of THEIR politicians, but had plenty to say when Republicans were in power.

Back on topic.
Wisconsin governor to missing senators: Come back or I'll lay off 1,500
http://www.csmonitor.com/US...nitor+|+All+Stories)

quote Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker says the state Legislature can't attend to crucial fiscal business while 14 Senate Democrats remain out of state to avoid a vote on a bill that would clip union rights. If the stalemate drags out, Walker said he'll have to make layoffs. Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) is ratcheting up the pressure on 14 Senate Democrats who fled the state two weeks ago to avoid voting on a bill that critics call a deliberate attempt to kill many of the state's public unions. Without the the 14 senators, the Wisconsin Senate can do nothing because it lacks a quorum. But Governor Walker is now saying that the renegade contingent must be in session in Madison Tuesday to vote to restructure the state’s debt, a move he says will save $165 million. Walker is suggesting that if Democrats are not present to authorize the readjustment, he may have to start cutting state jobs, though he didn't say when. The first cut would be 1,500 workers, and the reduction might ultimately spread to 12,000 state, local, and school employees. Some Democrats are saying the deadline is arbitrary and that the restructuring will actually cost Wisconsin taxpayers in interest because it simply spreads the debt over the next 10 years. “He’s not getting a lower interest rate, [he’s] just deferring a payment and it’s going to cost us … He’s just kicking the can down the road,” Sen. Jon Erpenbach (D) told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Monday. Why Tuesday? Walker has several reasons for wanting the Senate Democrats back in Madison Tuesday. Aside from the delayed budget-repair bill, which would end collective bargaining except for wages for non-law-enforcement public unions, Walker also wants the Legislature to take up next year's budget, which he was planning to introduce Tuesday. The budget is expected to have about $1 billion in cuts to local schools and municipalities. But Walker says the Tuesday deadline comes from a Feb. 22 memo from the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, a nonpartisan organization that provides governmental fiscal analysis to Madison lawmakers. The memo said that the state has until March 16 to transfer funds within the budget. The process of creating bonds, obtaining a rating from independent agencies, and taking bids to issue the bonds will take two weeks. “According to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, if Senate Democrats refuse to return to Wisconsin and cast their vote the next day, the option to refinance a portion of the state's debt will be off the table,” Walker said in a statement released Monday. In a phone interview Monday, Legislative Fiscal Bureau Director Bob Lang says that the restructuring represents “pushing some principal payments out over a couple of years into the future to realize a savings right now.” Mr. Lang confirmed that the interest costs to the state over a 10-year period total approximately $42 million. “There is some cost to it,” he says. On Sunday, in conversation on a Milwaukee television show, Walker said he did not have a specific timetable determining when potential cuts would happen, but he suggested it might be soon. “It’s not just a number, it’s not just a budget, it’s ultimately a real person with a real family, so I’m going to push that back as far as I can,” he said. “We’ve got to have real numbers to balance the budget to avoid layoffs. My hope is those 14 state senators … realize that in the end, it’s much better off to avoid those cuts, it’s much better off to avoid the most dire consequences that will come if we don’t pass this bill.” Senators adamant Yet the state’s Senate Democrats continue to stay in the Chicago area. They say they will not return to Madison unless the governor shows he is willing to compromise on the budget-repair bill. On Friday the governor visited cities represented by the senators to directly appeal to their constituents. On the Milwaukee television, he suggested he understood the motivations of the senators’ actions. “Senators said when they walked out two weeks ago they wanted to have more time … to have a true debate. I think they’ve succeeded in doing that. The whole state knows what’s going on,” he said. “It’s now time to come home.”

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: I am done with this argument, i am the bigger man by walking away, Wisconsin is my home, MY home not yours Fierobear, You may be a Republican but that means nothing in regards to what goes on in MY home. Carry on gentlemen, im sure there are other people you would like to tear apart because they dont align with your Republican ideals.

This is almost the exact same argument used by someone completely unrelated to Ramsespride. Is there some type of flyer going around that has talking points, and included the "This is our home not theirs" argument?

Really man, we are a "United" country. What happens in each state very much effects the others. Saying things like "you don't count, you are not from here." is just a cop out. We are all from the same country. The happenings in Wisconsin effect every other State in the Union.


Brad

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: Or perhaps lack of experience in communicating through typed text. Nobody knows that i havent been typing on a computer that long. I prefer to write by hand. Less grammatical errors, and i can keep on track most of the time. I am done with this argument, i am the bigger man by walking away, Wisconsin is my home, MY home not yours Fierobear, You may be a Republican but that means nothing in regards to what goes on in MY home. Carry on gentlemen, im sure there are other people you would like to tear apart because they dont align with your Republican ideals.

Actually I am very proud that the majority of the voters in WI voted him in to try and fix your budget mess.
Apparently the plan the dem had who was running against him didn't resonate with the voters.
Maybe your idea that republicans are Nazis and pricks will get you elected.
If you run and print up signs stating this, I will fly in and proudly wave it at one of your rallies.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Wisconsin is going broke because it's been run by DEMOCRATS for a long time. California is going broke because it's been run by DEMOCRATS for a long time. Our homes have the SAME problems, caused by the SAME policies. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that. The only hope to fix the problems of BOTH of our home states is Republicans who are willing to make the tough decisions. The Democrats have shown NO sign they are willing to actually fix the problem.

the problem is outsourcing
make up all the BS you like - but the manufacturing jobs leaving the US is the problem
and that is because of the so called "job creators" - a funny little lie of a tag name
if anyone should be replaced/fired/sent packing, it is the "job creators" for failing to do their jobs
others should take their place - which shows the big problem with this structure - that for some reason is not possible. why is that?

and - yes - not a single politician has proposed ANY kind of solution to the ACTUAL problem

I found this to be a good article on the Wisconsin situation.

http://www.theatlantic.com/...aining-rights/71918/

What is going on in Wisconsin could have national impact.
http://www.realclearpolitic...t_utopia_109046.html

quote Public Unions & the Socialist Utopia The Democratic lawmakers who have gone on the lam in Wisconsin and Indiana-and who knows where else next-are exhibiting a literal fight-or-flight response, the reaction of an animal facing a threat to its very existence. Why? Because it is a threat to their existence. The battle of Wisconsin is about the viability of the Democratic Party, and more: it is about the viability of the basic social ideal of the left. It is a matter of survival for Democrats in an immediate, practical sense. As Michael Barone explains, the government employees' unions are a mechanism for siphoning taxpayer dollars into the campaigns of Democratic politicians. But there is something deeper here than just favor-selling and vote-buying. There is something that almost amounts to a twisted idealism in the Democrats' crusade. They are fighting, not just to preserve their special privileges, but to preserve a social ideal. Or rather, they are fighting to maintain the illusion that their ideal system is benevolent and sustainable. Unionized public-sector employment is the distilled essence of the left's moral ideal. No one has to worry about making a profit. Generous health-care and retirement benefits are provided to everyone by the government. Comfortable pay is mandated by legislative fiat. The work rules are militantly egalitarian: pay, promotion, and job security are almost totally independent of actual job performance. And because everyone works for the government, they never have to worry that their employer will go out of business. In short, public employment is an idealized socialist economy in miniature, including its political aspect: the grateful recipients of government largesse provide money and organizational support to re-elect the politicians who shower them with all of these benefits. Put it all together, and you have the Democrats' version of utopia. In the larger American culture of Tea Parties, bond vigilantes, and rugged individualists, Democrats feel they are constantly on the defensive. But within the little subculture of unionized government employees, all is right with the world, and everything seems to work the way it is supposed to. This cozy little world has been described as a system that grants special privileges to a few, which is particularly rankling in the current stagnant economy, when private sector workers acutely feel the difference. But I think this misses the point. The point is that this is how the left thinks everyone should live and work. It is their version of a model society. Every political movement needs models. It needs a real-world example to demonstrate how its ideal works and that it works. And there's the rub. The left is running low on utopias. The failure of Communism-and the spectacular success of capitalism, particularly in bringing wealth to what used to be called the "Third World"-deprived the left of one utopia. So they fell back on the European welfare state, smugly assuring Americans that we would be so much better off if we were more like our cousins across the Atlantic. But the Great Recession has triggered a sovereign debt crisis across Europe. It turned out that the continent's welfare states were borrowing money to paper over the fact that they have committed themselves to benefits more generous than they can ever hope to pay for. In America, the ideological crisis of the left is taking a slightly different form. Here, the left has set up its utopias by carving out, within a wider capitalist culture, little islands where its ideals hold sway. Old age is one of those islands, where everyone has been promised the socialist dreams of a guaranteed income and unlimited free health care. Public employment is another. Now the left is panicking as these experiments in American socialism implode. On the national level, it has become clear that the old-age welfare state of Social Security and Medicare is driving the federal government into permanent trillion-dollar deficits and a ruinous debt load. Even President Obama acknowledged, in his State of the Union address, that these programs are the real drivers of runaway debt-just before he refused to consider any changes to them. You see how hard it is for the Democrats to give up on their utopias. On the state level, public employment promises the full socialist ideal to a small minority-paid for with tax money looted from a larger, productive private economy. But the socialist utopia of public employment has crossed the Thatcher Line: the point at which, as the Iron Lady used to warn, you run out of other people's money. The current crisis exposes more than just the financial unsustainability of these programs. It exposes their moral unsustainability. It exposes the fact that the generosity of these welfare-state enclaves can only be sustained by forcing everyone else to perform forced labor to pay for the benefits of a privileged few. This is why the left is treating any attempt to fundamentally reform the public workers' paradise as an existential crisis. This is why they are reacting with the most extreme measures short of outright insurrection. When Democratic lawmakers flee the state in order to deprive their legislatures of the quorum necessary to vote, they are declaring that they would rather have no legislature than allow voting on any bill that would break the power of the unions. National Review's Jim Geraghty describes these legislative walk-outs as "small-scale, temporary secessions." The analogy is exact. One hundred and fifty years ago, Southern slaveholders realized that the political balance of the nation had tipped against them, that they could no longer hope to win the political argument for their system. Faced with a federal government in which they were out-voted, they decided that they would rather have no federal government at all. The Democrats' current cause may not be as repugnant-holding human beings as chattel is a unique evil-but it has something of the same character of irrational, belligerent denial. More than two decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the left is still trying to pretend that socialism is plausible as an economic system. The Democrats are fleeing from a lot more than their jobs as state legislators. They are fleeing from the cold, hard reality of the financial and moral unsustainability of their ideal.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: the problem is outsourcing make up all the BS you like - but the manufacturing jobs leaving the US is the problem and that is because of the so called "job creators" - a funny little lie of a tag name if anyone should be replaced/fired/sent packing, it is the "job creators" for failing to do their jobs

You mean the same ones that many on the left think should be TAXED more? Then who will pay the taxes? The middle class? The poor? Ooops.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: You mean the same ones that many on the left think should be TAXED more? Then who will pay the taxes? The middle class? The poor? Ooops.

so you think it is fine that "job creators" create no jobs and skim off the nations wealth while producing NOTHING?

quote Originally posted by newf: I found this to be a good article on the Wisconsin situation. http://www.theatlantic.com/...aining-rights/71918/

A good article for your side of the argument, but just filled with mostly one person's opinion.
Polls are pretty much worthless when taken in the heat of the battle.
Once the smoke clears and the lost sole return from IL, then the state will get back to doing it's business.
The next election will decide if the people are happy with the outcome.

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride:Wisconsin is my home

Sending you a PM...

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: Or perhaps lack of experience in communicating through typed text. Nobody knows that i havent been typing on a computer that long. I prefer to write by hand. Less grammatical errors, and i can keep on track most of the time. I am done with this argument, i am the bigger man by walking away, Wisconsin is my home, MY home not yours Fierobear, You may be a Republican but that means nothing in regards to what goes on in MY home. Carry on gentlemen, im sure there are other people you would like to tear apart because they dont align with your Republican ideals.

Wisconsin is MY home, too. I knew that Governor Scott Walker was going to do some very unpopular things with the budget but you know what? It needs to be done. I have read the details. I have heard the arguments. I have listened to both sides. I have come to the conclusion that our Governor is doing what is in the best interest of our state. Not everyone will agree but at least don't go running off crying. Your life experiences apparently did not show you that you will be disappointed at times in life and that life isn't fair. Get over yourself.....you are as bad as the emocratic Senators that ran away to cry in Illinois. Be a man. Grow up. I've had to listen to the cry babies in Madison for 2 weeks now and we're going to hear a lot more because they are not going to get their way.

I have to go to work and help support some state employee's pension.

Mark the proud Wisconsinite that supports Governor Scott Walker whole heartedly!

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so you think it is fine that "job creators" create no jobs and skim off the nations wealth while producing NOTHING?

How are the job creators "skimming off the nations' wealth"?

Speaking of national impact. Many are going to be forced to make tough decisions because we are officially out of other people's money now.
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/...lock-is-ticking.html

quote Editorial: The clock is ticking on bloated pensions The Little Hoover Commission's report, "Public Pensions for Retirement Security," pulls no punches. The situation is "dire," commissioners rightly warn. If something is not done to reduce retirement liabilities, "pensions will crush government." Public employee retirement benefits in California are the most generous of any in the country. They've gone from just 40 percent of pay for the average 30-year-state employee when the retirement system was originally established in 1932 to close to 75 percent of pay today. Many local government workers earn more the day they retire than when they worked. And given earlier retirement ages – 55 for most public employees and 50 for firefighters, police and prison guards – and longer life spans, many retired state workers will actually pick up more retirement checks in their lifetimes than paychecks. Such high costs are unsustainable, economically and politically. The report predicts that in coming years, cities like San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose and Los Angeles will spend one-third of their operating budgets to finance their pension systems. It's not just citizens who risk loss of vital government services as retirement obligations overwhelm state and local budgets. Public employees, the report says, "will pay a price for inaction – salary freezes, layoffs increased payroll deductions and the threat of a city or county bankruptcy. A pension not tied to a job is worthless." In recent years, the state and some local governments have enacted modest reforms, boosting retirement ages to 60 from 55 for most new hires and from 50 to 55 for new public-safety employees, and increasing employee contributions to their own retirements. But the savings come too late to avert serious fiscal distress. Given the magnitude of the problem the commission recommends what no other public entity has suggested before – cutting pension benefits for current workers. There will be a titanic fight in the halls of the Legislature, in the courts and at the ballot box to enact such reform. But reform is urgently needed. The fight is unavoidable. Specifically, the commission calls for the Legislature and local governments to freeze benefits for state workers now and enact new lower pension formulas for the future. Under the plan, current workers would be allowed to keep the benefits they have earned already but all future pension benefits would be lower. In addition, the commission calls for a restructured pension system based on a federal government model. Workers would earn a much lower guaranteed retirement benefit that could be supplemented with both Social Security and a 401(k)-type plan to which both workers and government employers would contribute. There are other common sense and long overdo fixes in the Little Hoover plan. To avoid "spiking," future pensions would be calculated based on base salary exclusively and the average of five years' pay, not the single year used for workers now and a three-year average for new hires in a recently created second tier. The plan also would bar employees from buying extra credit or "air time" to enhance benefits, and it would strictly prohibit granting retroactive pension enhancements. All of these maneuvers are used routinely to enhance already generous public pensions. The question now is will the public employee unions, and majority Democrats whose campaigns they bankroll have the courage and the wisdom to carry out the recommendations contained in the Little Hoover Commission's report. There is reason for both to do so. Within unions there is a generational split. Older workers with fat retirements are protected by civil service seniority rules that shield them from layoffs. Younger workers lack that protection. To save jobs, young workers are more likely to want to embrace reforms. Union leaders need to pay attention. Yet so far, they appear tone deaf. They continue to roll out the old misleading statistic that public employee retirements average "$24,000 a year." Average is meaningless in this debate. Look at pension payouts for those who retired after a full career and after the big post-1999 pension enhancements were approved. Look at public-safety retirements across the board and some local governments that adopted pension formulas that outstrip even very generous state formulas. Democrats are facing a split between their constituents who are watching vital services evaporate and their public employee union political allies, whose members benefit from exorbitant pensions. They should act in the interest of their constituents and the state. If they don't act aggressively to curb pension excesses soon, an aroused public will. The Bee's past stands "A public pension feeding frenzy has increased retirement costs for local governments by staggering amounts over the last decade. Cities and counties that approved generous retirement benefits when the stock market was booming now face mounting costs as the stock market drops. Meanwhile, the Legislature has approved new measures that would boost the retirement benefits even higher for already lavishly pensioned public employees."

And speaking of polls 67% of Americans disapprove of "fleebagging" .

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-02-2011).]

quote Originally posted by partfiero: A good article for your side of the argument, but just filled with mostly one person's opinion. Polls are pretty much worthless when taken in the heat of the battle.

huh? Did you make it through the whole article? Oh and what's my side of the arguement?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: And speaking of polls 67% of Americans disapprove of "teabagging" .

Really?
Only 67%?
Some people are just very slow to catch on, I guess.

------------------

Drive safely!

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 03-02-2011).]

What have you been smoking?

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-02-2011).]

HHAHAHAHAH!

THAT'S funny.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 03-02-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: OMG are you serious? Walker SPILLED THE BEANS bigtime!!! Did you even listen to the conversation? Ian ("Koch") simply asked him some questions, opening the door, and Walker walked right through! Astonishing! Go back and listen to the phone call. It will leave you thunderstruck - unless you are a total partisan.

If you are thunderstruck by that conversation you are incredibly naive or extremely partisan yourself. I'm a total partisan because I believe Walker acts no differently than any other politician, left of right, does behind the scenes? Get a mirror.
You must think "The West Wing" was a documentary. All democrats do behind the scenes is have quick witty banter and fight the good fight 100% of the time. They are so dreamy.
I just listened to the whole thing, after only hearing clips on CNN and FNC. I hear Walker saying he reached out to one of the WI State Senate Democrats. He never totally agrees with the fake Koch. He talks about hardball political tactics. He is polite with the fake Koch but never fully commits to anything with him.
the fake Koch offers help all Walker says is to ask people to call their state rep? What is so insidious?
Only judgment I would make on Walker and his staff is they were inept enough to let this call get through.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: If you are thunderstruck by that conversation you are incredibly naive or extremely partisan yourself. I'm a total partisan because I believe Walker acts no differently than any other politician, left of right, does behind the scenes? Get a mirror.

Well that explains you.

quote You must think "The West Wing" was a documentary. All democrats do behind the scenes is have quick witty banter and fight the good fight 100% of the time. They are so dreamy.

I thought "The West Wing" was a nice piece of fiction. And a nice contrast to what was going on in dubya's administration. Seems you don't know me AT ALL. What a shock.

quote I just listened to the whole thing, after only hearing clips on CNN and FNC. I hear Walker saying he reached out to one of the WI State Senate Democrats. He never totally agrees with the fake Koch. He talks about hardball political tactics. He is polite with the fake Koch but never fully commits to anything with him. the fake Koch offers help all Walker says is to ask people to call their state rep? What is so insidious? Only judgment I would make on Walker and his staff is they were inept enough to let this call get through.

Well, with the partisan blinders on, it's no wonder you didn't hear anything wrong. I'll go out on a limb and guess you would have had the same reaction listening to Nixon's White House tapes.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Well, with the partisan blinders on, it's no wonder you didn't hear anything wrong. I'll go out on a limb and guess you would have had the same reaction listening to Nixon's White House tapes.

Wow this is no fun. Can't argue with someone who just reinforced everything I just said.
Nixon was a crook DUH.
Wanna play the R vs D game? I'll play at your level.
Hear the Blago tapes? Should I assume that all Democrats think and act like him? His defense was after all, that he was just doing what everyone else did.
Ever hear LBJ's tapes? He was a true gentleman. Made Capra's Mr. Smith look downright Machiavellian. LOL wait bad analogy. According to liberals that character was despicable for using the filibuster. Or is it only evil when Republicans do it?
It happens on both sides. Stop trying to demonize those you disagree with.
Tell me what Walker said that was criminal or unethical.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Wow this is no fun. Can't argue with someone who just reinforced everything I just said. Nixon was a crook DUH. Wanna play the R vs D game? I'll play at your level. Hear the Blago tapes? Should I assume that all Democrats think and act like him? His defense was after all, that he was just doing what everyone else did. Ever hear LBJ's tapes? He was a true gentleman. Made Capra's Mr. Smith look downright Machiavellian. LOL wait bad analogy. According to liberals that character was despicable for using the filibuster. Or is it only evil when Republicans do it? It happens on both sides. Stop trying to demonize those you disagree with. Tell me what Walker said that was criminal or unethical.

What did he say that was unethical? How about "I contemplated injecting "troublemakers" into the protests, but I finally rejected that idea."

How about "That would be outstanding" when asked if he would like an all-expenses-paid trip to California to be shown a good time, by "Mr. Koch" (Ian Murphy)?


And you have a peculiar definition of "demonizing"

He said "we thought about that", which could mean one of his advisers brought it up and he shot it down. It could also mean that he himself thought of it too. The point is he chose against it.
I won't even go into the whole relativistic garbage of what the left does.

Again, he thinks he's talking to a big time donor and is humoring him. Do you not understand the concept of context? I don't think anyone would think "that would be outstanding" would convict him of corruption.

You would complain about people nitpicking about anything Obama says and here you are doing it.
Right any criticism of you must be someone else's shortcoming.

Demonizing:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/demonizes
"To represent as evil or diabolic: wartime propaganda that demonizes the enemy."

Ohio Senate passed our Bill 5 with some concessions. There is no union bargaining now on pensions for example. Final say so in any agreement between union and state is in the hands of a voted in state official. Wage raises will be based on only performance...not time on the job. I dont understand why the workers object to this part...if they do their job satisfactory, they still get their raises...possibly even higher ones. The only reason they would want it based on time is because they still get a raise at least every year, no matter how poor they do their job. There is no incentive to actually even do a mediocre job.

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/...h-walkout-ar-410944/

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Nixon was a crook DUH.

No he wasn't:

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Actually Richard Nixon, IMHO, was one of the greatest Presidents in our modern presidency. What he did and lied about to cover his subbordants was a bad thing. Yes! Tricky Dicky was a paranoid person, but the actions he took during his Presidency and his legacy (it was a noble thing to resign) but beyond that, he did many great things for this country and in the world. I'm sorry! He was a great President and I'm not saying this because he was a Republican. I'm just talking about his record and action. His book "Victory without War" and "Leaders" are excellent books to read. I will always defend Richard Nixon. They sure don't make them like they used too.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-6-033815.html

Phonedawgz, I sent you a PM, did you get it?

Wow. JazzMan goes all the way back to 2005 for a post by Wichita? Interesting. Wait...I didn't think he wanted to talk politics.

He's just following Derr Leader's example, he lied! That is,unless he is still trying to get Phonedawgz to change the topic to political.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-03-2011).]