The "smart" kids wouldn't really do this, would they? (sarcasm)
Wisconsin Republicans Receive Death Threats
http://www.newsmax.com/Insi...al&promo_code=BD6D-1

quote The Wisconsin Department of Justice is investigating an e-mail threatening the lives of some Republican state senators. DOJ spokesman William Cosh says the Division of Criminal Investigation is investigating one e-mail and other threats from several sources, but he declined to be specific. A spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald says two death threat e-mails that were sent to Fitzgerald’s office Wednesday night have been forwarded to Capitol police. Andrew Wellhouse says the address of the e-mail sender was apparent but that police directed him not to disclose it. The e-mail to Fitzgerald says he and his “Republican dictators” must die because of their actions “today and in the past couple of weeks,” presumably referring to GOP senators passing a bill removing most public employees’ collective bargaining rights. Read more on Newsmax.com: Wisconsin Republicans Receive Death Threats Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

The people sending these death treat emails can't be that smart. They could go to jail for a long time for doing so.
Here are some videos floating around about the situation in Wisconsin.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-11-2011).]

Hey look I can copy and paste too.

quote Originally posted by Newf Hey look I can copy and paste too.

You fail! My videos are about what is happening in Wisconsin and are on topic, your's isn't.

Here is a video that probably suits you.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-11-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: You fail! My videos are about what is happening in Wisconsin and are on topic, your's isn't.

Really? What a much revered President said about unions and collective bargaining isn't on topic? Could have fooled me.

Again you fail. The topic of this thread is about "The latest twist in the Wisconsin state workers saga". The emphasis being on WISCONSIN STATE WORKERS. I guess you being Canadian has you confused about the difference between something Reagan said in the past and what Wisconsin state workers are doing right now.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-11-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Again you fail. The topic of this thread is about "The latest twist in the Wisconsin state workers saga". The emphasis being on WISCONSIN STATE WORKERS. I guess you being Canadian has you confused about the difference between something Reagan said in the past and what Wisconsin state workers are doing right now.

Not at all, I believe the Wisconsin Governor represents and President Reagan represented the same party and I find it odd that they would be so opposite in their thoughts on matters such as collective bargaining and freedom. I guess as someone who rarely can form an opinion of his own you are confused when you see such things.

Oh BTW congratulations on finding another source of biased opinion to post I'm sure we'll all enjoy your copy and pastes without stating your beliefs. Or as in the "birther issue" the copy and pastes supporting things you claim you don't even believe.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 03-11-2011).]

You're welcome! You are just upset because you think that their collective bargaining is being forbidden or entirely eliminated, It isn't and neither are the unions. The litigation being passed is neccesary to help balance their budget and make things a bit more fair for the taxpayers, who are the ones footing the state workers pay and benefits. The budget crisis is the straw that broke this camel's back and now there are repercussions to be paid by those abusing the system. It's time for ALL of us to tighten our belts equally.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-11-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: You're welcome!

Hahaha, you make me laugh anyways ya bugger

Feel free to use this as your new avatar

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 03-11-2011).]

Talk about taking something out of context. That Regan clip doesn't really say anything but Unions serve a purpose in our democracy. Not speaking specifically about public sector unions either. He was speaking of unions in general and it was very general.
Second we all know what he did with the air traffic controllers union.
Also those who have read about Reagan would know of the anecdotes he would tell about how what he saw in the Screen Actor's Guild as its president helped him on his move to the right. The atmosphere in Madison may also have some comparisons to Berkley in the 60's and Reagan handled that how?

Back on topic, again.
Defeated show real class in Wisconsin.
http://biggovernment.com/pu...capital-in-meltdown/

quote Capitol is in an uproar! A man sported a sign, “burn Walker”. Complete with a drawing of Gov. Walker withering in flames of fire. Protesters recognized me from my Fox News appearances. One lady refused to leave me alone and began yelling my name and position to anyone who’d listen. She approached a burly union man and continued with her, “Josiah” rant. He then followed me around for over ten minutes. I went up three floors, turned corners, visited every wing of the building and yet, he remained on my trail. He was at least two inches taller and 100 lbs heavier than me. Approximately 3,500 protesters are present. When I left they had dragged a sound system into the capitol building. The first speaker was outraged by the “unconstitutional metal detectors”. He followed it up by declaring that any windows screwed down “violate the American Disabilities act”. Much to the crowds delight, the main speaker promised ” we will break in tonight, the next night and the next night if we have too”. I left the scene as they began chanting, ” we wont leave”. At 5:00 pm the entire Democrat caucus is rallying with crowd at State street and Carrol. Wisconsin Educators Association Council is bringing in 15 busloads of teachers for the rally. A man just dropped his pants….In defiance of Gov. Scott Walker.

Yup, real class indeed.

Tax $$ To Be Spent On Preserving Signs From Wisconsin Union Rallies!
http://www.foundingbloggers...onsin-union-rallies/

quote This report from Chicago Breaking News indicates that there is a plan underway for the State Government of Wisonsin to spend tax dollars to preserve the signs on display at the Democratic-Socialist Union protests in Wisconsin. Smithsonian for Wis. Capitol protest signs? Many of the signs were photographed before they were taken down Sunday and preserved by the Wisconsin Historical Society. The state Department of Administration says the signs will be evaluated for historical content by both the Smithsonian and the historical society. Will they include all of the messages, or just the ones that don’t make the Democratic-Socialists look like a bunch of violent, name calling thugs?

Even the unhinged are more unhinged about this.
http://newsbusters.org/blog...sconsin-declares-war

quote Michael Moore Rendered Unhinged Over Wisconsin, Declares 'This Is War' Not to worry, Moore promises one of those tranquil conflicts devoid of violence. What is it about self-proclaimed peace lovers that they are so often bellicose? Latest example -- the agitprop filmmaker's appearance on MSNBC's Rachel Maddow show last night, coming shortly after the GOP-led Wisconsin state senate voted overwhelmingly in favor of Gov. Scott Walker's proposal to curtail collective bargaining for most public employees. After Maddow introduced Moore and praised his "barnburning speech" in Madison over the weekend, Moore said this (video below page break) -- I just want to say, anybody who lives within driving distance of Madison, Wisc., right now should make their way to the capital. I would love to see thousands of people there right now, there in that capital building, in the rotunda, out on the lawn, whatever it takes. I mean, really, this is really, this is war. This is a class war that's been leveled against the working people of this country and at some point people are going to just have to stand up and say, non-violently, this is enough. We're not taking it anymore. ... Needless to say, Moore will take full responsibility for any war-like incidents that occur in Wisconsin in the weeks and months ahead at the hand of people who caught the first part of his message -- "this is war" -- but missed his disingenuous disclaimer of wanting to fight "non-violently." Imagine how Moore and Maddow would bay at the moon if Walker announced "this is war," or if Sarah Palin so much as tweeted it. Moore also complained about legislation proposed by Michigan Gov. Rick Synder that would give him authority to appoint financial managers to oversee municipalities and school districts facing bankruptcy, with the managers authorized to void contracts and fire local officials -- The fact that they think they can get away with this. I mean, you said it all in the last segment there, that what happened three years ago in 2008, what happened is they realized they could get away with murder. They realized that they could literally loot the treasury, they could play with people's pension funds on Wall Street, they could destroy the economy, they could essentially do what they could to eliminate the middle class, and there would be no response from the people. There would be no revolt. Moore disputed claims that Wisconsin and the nation are facing financial crises. "We're not broke," he said, since "we have trillions of dollars in our economy." Problem is, "the money isn't where it needs to be" since the wealthiest one percent of Americans took it out of circulation and aren't being taxed "appropriately." As a result, Moore claimed, America faces "a revenue problem" and suggested what needs to be done -- MOORE: It's not because there's debt. There's always debt. If you're making car payments, you're in debt. That doesn't mean you're broke. Wisconsin isn't broke. America isn't broke. The money's just not in the people's hands. It's in the hands of the rich, the rich who committed these crimes back on Wall Street and they got away with it. And that's why, you know, I just have these, I brought these, Rachel, this is my prop for the night. ... MADDOW: Can we have a wide shot of what Mr. Moore has brought with him? (handcuffs shown) MOORE: I brought these with me. I'd like anybody who works on Wall Street, anybody who works for one of the banks, just take a look at this, OK? (holds up cuffs) 'Cause this is what, this is what's coming, this is what's coming for you. Because the people aren't going to take it anymore. The people are going to demand justice. They're going to 'mand, they're going to demand that your ass is in jail. You've taken our money. We want the money back. Just out of curiosity, Mr. Moore, do the monsters in your wheelhouse include President Obama -- who voted for the Wall Street bailout while still in the Senate? Hard to get around the complicity there. How about Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner? You remember, he was president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York when the bottom fell out in 2008. Right in the thick of it, you might say. Shortly thereafter, Geithner was assigned to distribute TARP funds. Or "loot the treasury," as you put it. What about House Financial Services Committee chairman Barney Frank, who ignored years of warnings and flashing red lights that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were dangerously overextended? Apparently Frank was distracted by his decade-long personal relationship with a Fannie Mae executive. None of these scofflaws have to worry, though. Moore's fantasies about handcuffs are strictly limited to Republicans.

"The fact that they think they can get away with this. I mean, you said it all in the last segment there, that what happened three years ago in 2008, what happened is they realized they could get away with murder. They realized that they could literally loot the treasury, they could play with people's pension funds on Wall Street, they could destroy the economy, they could essentially do what they could to eliminate the middle class, and there would be no response from the people. There would be no revolt."

Moore should look in the mirror. He is describing the way many feel about what public unions are doing to the taxpayers.


When public unions take over
http://www.americanthinker....nions_take_over.html

quote Public sector unions have long been a major thorn in the side of European governments and one of the major factors in their budget woes. In many countries such as Greece, they have virtually brought the nation to its financial knees and many unions throughout the hard hit countries of Europe still refuse to accept the austerity measures necessary to stabilize their various economies. The recent riots in Athens, Paris and London were fore-runners to the lunacy taking place in Madison, Wisconsin. Today in Germany, there is a strike by the Deutsche Bahn (government owned railway) train drivers, thus stranding millions as service was cancelled throughout the country. The union which represents these workers are not demanding more money for the members of the union that work for Deutsche Bahn (20,000), but to force the few private rail companies in Germany that employ 6,000 members of the same union to pay the same as the government in their ongoing negotiations. Freight service had already been affected by the strike on Wednesday and on Thursday the busy hubs of Germany's long distance network, including Frankfurt, Cologne and Munich were heavily impacted by the walk-out. Per Der Spiegel: But this week's strikes were only a warm-up for the GDL [union]. With a large-scale walkout, the train drivers' union was able to paralyze rail traffic across the country -- and it has threatened to do it again. Another complicating factor is that there is no legal regulation of labor disputes in Germany. The public sector unions in Germany have so much clout that they can do anything with virtual impunity. The negotiations between the union and the private rail companies has nothing whatsoever to do with the national railway company and its contract with the union. Yet because of the way the laws are written and the overwhelming clout of the unions vis-à-vis the politicians (whom they own) they can shut down the country at will with no repercussions. Unless and until the countries of Europe get their public employee wages and benefits under control and rein in entitlement spending, the financial crisis still brewing and coming to a head in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland and Belgium (with more to come) will in due course engulf the continent. The battle in Wisconsin and other state capitals are of the utmost importance. Public sector unionism is anathema to a thriving country and the rule of law as the government, who is ostensibly the employer become instead a spineless by-stander. What is happening in Europe will happen in the United States, if the battle of Wisconsin is lost.

Do we really want something like that happening here?

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-11-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Signing Bill Into Law, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker Rescinds Firing Notices http://www.newsmax.com/News...al&promo_code=BD7B-1

Nobody wants to hear this. It's just insane, probably made up.

Everyone knows Walker just hates workers. There is no way he would not just fire them all.

[/sarcasm]

I would start taking names outside at this point, and the firing would begin. If they are a state worker, and any state business is being held back because they are not at work, then they should start looking for a new job.

I'm sure there are many people that would be willing to take their place.

Brad

The Power of Teachers' Unions
http://thenewamerican.com/i...r-of-teachers-unions

quote The recent events in Wisconsin, in which unionized teachers behaved like third-world mobs, is a stark reminder of what a grave mistake it was to permit government employees to unionize. Since government employees have always had job security and benefits that many workers in the private sector couldn’t dream of getting, there was no need for them to unionize unless they wanted to use union power to intimidate legislators and extort more money from the taxpayers. In fact, the sole purpose of unionization is political power, even among teachers. Indeed, it was Sam Lambert, Secretary of the National Education Association, who told the teachers in 1967 that “The NEA will become a stronger and more influential advocate of social changes long overdue…. The NEA will become a political power second to no other special interest group…. And, finally, NEA will organize this profession from top to bottom into logical operating units that can move easily and effectively and with power unmatched by any other organized group.” Although the NEA had been established in 1857 as a professional organization, it wasn’t until 1962 that it became a labor union, after which it drafted model collective bargaining statutes covering teachers, which by 1980 were enacted into law in 31 states. Unionization also led to unified membership — meaning that a member of a local affiliate was forced to join the national organization and pay its dues. Forced membership increased the number of NEA members from 713,994 in 1959-60 to 1.7 million in 1983, to 3.2 million in 2011. The NEA’s budget increased from $5 million in 1957 to $67 million in 1979-80, to $307 million in 2006-07. The NEA was also able to get school boards to automatically deduct from teachers’ salaries their union dues, which were automatically deposited in the union’s bank account, all at taxpayer expense. Before the 1960s, only a small portion of public school teachers were unionized. But, ironically, that began to change in 1959 when Wisconsin became the first state to pass a collective-bargaining law for public employees. In those days, Wisconsin basked in the warm sunlight of progressivism. Little did they know that they were creating a potential Frankenstein. While the Wisconsin teachers have been part of the mobs demonstrating in favor of their collective bargaining rights, their curriculum is no bargain for the children they teach. According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress test given in 2009, only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating in reading, while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 68 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.” In other words, Wisconsin public schools are turning out functional illiterates by the thousands. Indeed, the test showed that the reading abilities of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders had not improved at all between 1998 and 2009 despite the increase in the amount of money spent per pupil each year. In 1998 the cost of educating a public school pupil in Wisconsin was $4,956. In 2008 it was up to $10,791. So money is not the problem. It’s teacher incompetence. Obviously the taxpayer is being cheated by teachers unable to do their jobs but using collective bargaining to make it difficult to fire them. Too bad Wisconsin’s public school children can’t organize a protest against being taught to read by methods that produce dyslexia and reading disability. Unfortunately, they aren’t unionized. For unions, power is the name of the game. Ninety-five percent of the NEA’s political contributions go to Democratic candidates and the few liberal Republican RINOs who support NEA interests. Teachers, who pay hundreds of dollars in annual dues to national, state, and local affiliates, have no control over the NEA’s endorsement of candidates or advocacy of socialist policies. In 28 states teachers risk losing their jobs if they refuse to join a union. The NEA has long advocated leftist policies leading to a world socialist government. The NEA was responsible for creating UNESCO as a future world board of education. As early as December 1942, the NEA was advocating world government. In an editorial entitled “The United Peoples of the World,” the editor of the NEA Journal wrote: “In addition to a framework of government, the world needs…a world system of money and credit; a uniform system of weights and measures; a revised calendar; a basic language; a police force; a board of education; a planning board.” And much more. The latest resolutions adopted by the NEA at its July 2010 convention tell the story. They favor initiatives leading to the end of American sovereignty: global education, education on peace and international understanding, peace and international relations, an International Criminal Court, an International Court of Justice, [regulations related to] global climate change, linguistic diversity, environmental education, and multicultural education. They oppose home schooling, education vouchers, tuition tax credits, right-to-work Laws.. They favor same-sex marriage, free education for children of illegal immigrants, early childhood education in public schools for children from birth to age eight, abortion rights, and sex education that includes birth control, family planning, diversity of sexual orientation, homophobia, etc. They favor celebrating Earth Day. They oppose: prepublication critiques of textbooks, privatization of Social Security, the use of ID cards for voting at elections, and designating English as the official language of the United States. There is only one truly effective way to reduce the power of the NEA, and that is for parents to remove their children from the public schools and place them in good private schools or home school them. By now about two million families have done just that. But it is unlikely that the vast majority of parents will follow suit. And so we shall have to accept the increase in functional illiteracy and learning disabilities among our children. In November 2007, the National Endowment for the Arts released its report on the decline in American literacy, Reading at Risk. According to the report, the number of 17-year-olds who never read for pleasure increased from 9 percent in 1984 to 19 percent in 2004. About half of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 never read books for pleasure. Endowment Chairman Dana Gioia stated: “This is a massive social problem. We are losing the majority of the new generation. They will not achieve anything close to their potential because of poor reading.” The survey found that only a third of high school seniors read at a proficient level. “And proficiency is not a high standard,” said Gioia. “We’re not asking them to be able to read Proust in the original. We’re talking about reading the daily newspaper.” Chairman Gioia declined to say what was causing the problem, although the cause has been known since 1955 when Rudolf Flesch wrote Why Johnny Can’t Read. The educators threw out the alphabetic-phonics method of teaching reading and replaced it with a method that teaches children to read English as if it were Chinese — a look-say, sight method. That method causes dyslexia and reading disability. But the NEA couldn’t care less.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Democrats return to Wisconsin Capitol

Those fourteen are the ones the protestors should REALLY be protesting. Ever seen "Mr Smith Goes to Washington"? If those fourteen senators had any kind of backbone they'd have stuck around and lobbied their collegues on the other side of the aisle and maybe swayed a couple votes over to their side. Nope, instead they played their "I don't like the game so I'm taking my ball and going home" foolishness and fled to Illinois. Sorry, but the WI Dems have made the state a laughingstock on the network news every night for the last month. I'm glad the Walker bill passed.

quote Originally posted by css9450: I'm glad the Walker bill passed.

The above article says they are "circulating recall petitions." Great. Hey, Democrats, tell ya what...if you're successful in recalling some or all of the Republicans, and you undo this law, DON'T YOU F***ING DARE come to the rest of us asking for a bailout that you will need after undoing the law that would have gotten rid of the need of a bailout.

Holy f'ing s***, when are Democrats going to GET IT. There is NO MONEY. Deal with it.

Can we still have them arrested? I mean you abandoned your government job for a month, and willfully ignored authoritative orders to return, and hid from the state police in an explicit attempt to undermine the functioning of a state government. If I did that, Id be stuck in solitary right now... Or do the laws not apply to them?

More union dirty tricks in Wisconsin.
UNIONS THREATEN BUSINESS
http://www.620wtmj.com/show...17764004.html?blog=y

quote That's a nice business you got there. Pity if anything were to happen to it if, say, you didn't toe the line and denounce Governor Walker like we're asking nice-like. March 10, 2011 Mr. Tom Ellis, President Marshall & Ilsley Corporation 770 N. Water Street Milwaukee, WI 53202 SENT VIA FASCIMILE AND REGULAR MAIL Dear Mr. Ellis: As you undoubtedly know, Governor Walker recently proposed a “budget adjustment bill” to eviscerate public employees’ right to collectively bargain in Wisconsin. .. As you also know, Scott Walker did not campaign on this issue when he ran for office. If he had, we are confident that you would not be listed among his largest contributors. As such, we are contacting you now to request your support. The undersigned groups would like your company to publicly oppose Governor Walker’s efforts to virtually eliminate collective bargaining for public employees in Wisconsin. While we appreciate that you may need some time to consider this request, we ask for your response by March 17. In the event that you do not respond to this request by that date, we will assume that you stand with Governor Walker and against the teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters, and other dedicated public employees who serve our communities. In the event that you cannot support this effort to save collective bargaining, please be advised that the undersigned will publicly and formally boycott the goods and services provided by your company. However, if you join us, we will do everything in our power to publicly celebrate your partnership in the fight to preserve the right of public employees to be heard at the bargaining table. Wisconsin’s public employee unions serve to protect and promote equality and fairness in the workplace. We hope you will stand with us and publicly share that ideal. In the event you would like to discuss this matter further, please contact the executive Director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, Jim Palmer, at 608.273.3840. Thank you in advance for your consideration. We look forward to hearing from you soon. James L. Palmer, Executive Director Wisconsin Professional Police Association Mahlon Mitchell,President Professional Fire Fighters Jim Conway, President International Association of Fire Fighters Local 311 John Matthews, Executive Director Madison Teachers, Inc. Keith Patt, Executive Director Green Bay Education Association Bob Richardson, President Dane County Deputy Sheriffs Association Dan Frei, President Madison Professional Police Officers Association

I call this blackmail. Here is some more.

Walker's Big Bank Donors Take a Hit
http://www.thenation.com/ar...bank-donors-take-hit

quote The blowback from Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s union-busting crusade has only just begun—and it may soon hit the governor where it really hurts: in the deep pockets of his biggest donors. Workers have begun organizing a “Move Your Money Campaign” against M&I Bank, whose employees are among his chief financial backers. M&I Bank is the largest bank in Wisconsin, and was the recipient of $1.7 billion in TARP bailout money from the federal government. The bundled contributions from M&I executives were Walker’s second-largest source of campaign funds. According to records provided by the Sunlight Foundation, executives at M&I Bank gave $46,308 to Walker’s campaign. And now, a group of local unions in Wisconsin have threatened to pull their money from M&I Bank unless it denounces Scott Walker’s attack on workers’ rights. “Walker and his henchmen in the GOP have chosen to ignore the people of Wisconsin, but we all know now that they will listen to their big money donors,” says factory worker David Goodspeed, a member of Sheet Metal Workers Local Union 565. “This is an opportunity for donors like M&I to be good corporate citizens and do what’s right for the citizens who bailed them out.” On Thursday morning, several hundred protesters surrounded an M&I Bank across the street from the Wisconsin State Capitol shouting “You Got Bailed Out, We Got Sold Out.” International Association of Fire Fighters Local 311 President Joe Conway Jr. told me two union members marched in and pulled a combined $192,000 dollars out of the bank. “Hopefully this sends a message to the bank,” says Conway. “We wanted to illustrate how serious our threat is by having just two of our members pull their money out. “ The union said it plans to escalate actions and will soon begin handing out flyers at protests asking people to move their money. A senior union researcher estimates that unions have at least $1 billion invested in M&I Bank, mostly through pension funds. Discussions are going on at the highest levels of the labor movement about how exactly to leverage this financial clout in the political debate in Wisconsin. Since the Bank of Montreal is in process of purchasing M&I Bank, US unions have reached out to the Canadian Labour Congress to urge their involvement in a disinvestment campaign. “It’s good to remind these corporations that there are risks as well as profits involved in supporting right-wing political campaigns,” says Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. “Unions must use their economic power to fight for labor rights.” With over $6 trillion of workers’ money in retirement plans, pension funds, profit-sharing and stock plans and union reserve funds, workers have the ability to reshape the economy and political priorities of the economic elite. Unions have had some success with this tactic in the past. In 2009, a coalition composed of organized labor, religious groups, community organizations and MoveOn.org spearheaded a successful campaign to get Ken Lewis pushed out as chairman of Bank of America. With few tools in their arsenal to stop the escalating attacks, unions may increasingly turn to this tactic of moving their money to protect their rights. While workers may be on the defensive, fending off right-wing assaults like Walker’s, they are also realizing the power they have in society and the economy.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-14-2011).]

Nearly 5.5 million people live in Wisconsin. Some 300,000 work for state or local government.

Hmmm......who is the middle class? If they want to boycott, who will succeed?

Who do they think they are???

quote Originally posted by avengador1: I call this blackmail. Here is some more.

Pft! You should really keep your mouth shut if you dont know what you are talking about.... This is clearly extortion, not blackmail.

While I am intelligent enough to read through it, does anyone else think bragging about how only two of your people pulled out $200,000 might be counter productive when you are trying to say you dont get paid well enough?

quote Originally posted by Firefox: Nearly 5.5 million people live in Wisconsin. Some 300,000 work for state or local government. Hmmm......who is the middle class? If they want to boycott, who will succeed? Who do they think they are???

Granted, your government employees seem to be more than fairly compensated for their jobs, but looking at this, I'm starting to wonder if this is a political move to get the middle class stirred up enough to move the votes to a certain party?

Wisconsin Unions Rush Deals Ahead of Bargaining Law
http://www.aolnews.com/2011...d-of-bargaining-law/

quote School boards and local governments across Wisconsin are rushing to reach agreements with unions before a new law takes effect and erases their ability to collectively bargain over nearly all issues other than minimal salary increases. The law doesn't go into effect until the day after Secretary of State Doug La Follette publishes it and it doesn't supersede contracts already in place, fueling unions' desire to reach new deals quickly. La Follette said Monday that he will delay publication until the latest day possible, March 25, to give local governments as much time as possible to reach agreements. Republican Gov. Scott Walker had asked La Follette to publish the law Monday, but the Democratic secretary of state said he didn't see any emergency that warranted him doing so. La Follette opposed the bill and said he sat in his office watching parts of a weekend protest that brought as many as 100,000 people out in opposition to the law. "This is the biggest change in Wisconsin labor management history in 50 years," La Follette said, describing his reasoning for holding off on its enactment. The law ends collective bargaining for public workers over everything except salary increases no greater than inflation. It also forces state workers to make benefit concessions that amount to an 8 percent pay cut on average. Walker also is proposing a nearly $1 billion cut in aid to schools in his two-year budget plan that would take effect in July. He argued that for that reason, districts needed to get more money from their employees to help mitigate the loss in aid. Walker also wants to limit the ability of schools and local governments to pay for the cuts through local property tax increases. The Wisconsin Association of School Boards is telling districts to be cautious about approving contracts that will make it more difficult for them to handle the cuts in aid Walker is seeking. Since Walker unveiled the bill on Feb. 11, between 50 and 100 of the state's 424 districts have approved deals with unions, said Bob Butler, an attorney with the association. The vast majority of them included benefit concessions consistent with what Walker proposed under the new law, Butler said. The Madison school board met in a marathon 18-hour session Friday night to reach an agreement with the local teachers union to approve a new contract that runs through mid-2013. That agreement freezes wages and requires the same pension contribution as state workers will be required to pay starting later this month under the new law. It also allows the district to require health insurance premium contributions up to 5 percent in the first year of the deal and up to 10 percent in the second year. The Racine school district voted to approve a new contract with its teachers union on Wednesday evening, as Walker's collective bargaining proposal was being approved by the state Senate. Several local governments, including the city of Janesville and La Crosse County, also have pushed through contracts in the past month ahead of the new law. Schools and local governments would be foolish to rush through deals that don't account for concessions at the same level or greater than what is called for under the law, said Republican Rep. Robin Vos, co-chairman of the Legislature's budget committee. If they don't get the concessions, then they can't complain about the difficulty of dealing with cuts, Vos said. "Ultimately they're the ones who are going to have to deal with the ramifications," he said. "I can't imagine they're going to be able to talk out of both sides of their mouth." If districts lock in deals with unions that don't have concessions to help make up for the aid cuts, that could force them into making "mass layoffs," said Walker's spokesman Cullen Werwie. Eliminating collective bargaining, except over salary, puts both local teachers unions and the school districts in unchartered territory as they try to figure out how to work with one another without the previous structure, said Mary Bell, president of the statewide teachers' union that fought unsuccessfully to stop the bill. "This bill creates chaos and that doesn't benefit anyone," Bell said. "There's a great deal of anxiety, as you might expect." La Follette said he heard from many schools, cities and counties urging him to delay enactment of the law as long as possible. Waiting the full 10 days afforded under the law is his office's usual practice anyhow, La Follette said. The law is also being challenged in court. A hearing on that lawsuit, brought by the Democratic Dane County executive, was scheduled for Wednesday. A request for an emergency injunction to block the law was rejected on Friday.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC Pft! You should really keep your mouth shut if you dont know what you are talking about.... This is clearly extortion, not blackmail.

Here is the definiton of blackmail:

blackmail [ˈblækˌmeɪl]
n
1. (Law) the act of attempting to obtain money by intimidation, as by threats to disclose discreditable information
2. the exertion of pressure or threats, esp unfairly, in an attempt to influence someone's actions
vb (tr)
1. (Law) to exact or attempt to exact (money or anything of value) from (a person) by threats or intimidation; extort
2. to attempt to influence the actions of (a person), esp by unfair pressure or threats
[see black, mail3]
blackmailer n

Who's the one who doesn't know what they are talking about now?

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-15-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Trust me, the one time recently where I checked political to see how things looked it was like visiting the intake end of a major sewage treatment facility. Which I actually have as part of a science course. Nasty doesn't even begin to describe it....I can still imagine the smell... So no, once phonedawgz fixes his screwup it's gone from my eyes forever.

You still here, ? That smell that you can still imagine is not there anymore. Yet you still come back for a sniff, ?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: There's only one way I can be stopped from replying, and only phonedawgz can do it...

Oh gosh, . Unless you check political again. Only you can stop from replying. Only you, can keep from looking.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: What I don't undestand is if we all have to make sacrifices and take cuts, why don't billionaires and corporations have to do the same? They could urge Walker to repeal the $117 mil tax cuts for them, saying Wisconsin needs the money more than they do. Wanna place any bets if they will do that? Or only look out for themselves?

Who are you looking out for ? Who do you give money to ?
Tax cuts ? Or, the rescinding of over taxation ? Think about it.

quote Originally posted by D B Cooper: Wisconsin is a tax hell with a bad reputation for union gooning ...

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: First off, facing millions in losses, and wondering why the hell they are freezing their butts off in Wisconsin in the first place, said 'millionaires' are just going to pack up and move someplace friendlier.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: They want to leave? Freeze their assets and penalize them for taking their money out of WI. It can be done.

Ignorance is not bliss. Stupidity never ceases to amaze me, . Which is it ?
I work almost 200 miles from home. I can take four different routes. Some have repressive gas prices, speed limits, road conditions, speed traps, the list goes on. Which route would you take ? You are actually advocating that I take a less friendly route ? I am my own business. Even if I work for someone else. My boss is just my customer. Yet you think that I should take a repressive route to work, ?
Let me try a different tact. Once I am at work and get off duty, it's a fifty mile round trip to the beer store. There are actually two to choose from, both sell gas. One is packed, one is not.

quote Originally posted by D B Cooper: Want to hear a nice twistie spin move ? Ask KT why he opposes tax breaks for businesses to move to Wisconsin, but undoubtedly supports taxpayer subsidies (corporate welfare) for the film industry in Michigan...

I'll play, .
KT, do you shop at sales ? If sales were not allowed, the consumer would have less of a choice.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: I don't support subsidies for any industry. Whatever state they are in. Not for corn, not for tobacco, not for oil. And not for the film industry.

How do you feel about Dumbocratic earmarks ?

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: I do not consider paying their fair share of taxes to be penalizing success. I would like to tell them, once you have climbed the ladder of success, DON'T BURN THE MOTHERF*CKING LADDER BEHIND YOU!!!!

DON'T BURN THE MOTHERF*CKING LADDER BEHIND YOU ??? Hmm, like the Unions are doing, ? Their fair share of taxes, ? I pay my fair share and give away more. I give away on a pre tax basis. If I didn't pay so many taxes, I could decide winners and losers in the redistribution of wealth ideal that you support, instead of the gestapo. If I didn't pay so many taxes, I could decide more winners and losers by consumer power.
question. How do the ones who found out how to climb the ladder of success burn it, ?

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: I do not consider paying their fair share of taxes to be penalizing success.

Do you know anything about the "fair tax" initiative ?

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: What about taking away half of someone's inheritance? Or did they work real hard to earn THAT?

You, you, are for giving away half of your inheritance ?

quote Originally posted by GT86: Did you do anything to earn any of that inheritance?

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Yes, I damn well did, and so did you. You and I bought whatever the decedent was selling, paid taxes to provide a society in which they were able to be successful (i.e. schools, roads, courts, etc.) the decedent didn't create money out of thin air... they did it with our help. Time to pay back the society which allowed them to thrive. Besides, as I previously said, they (rich) also benefit from a better society. And we need to get away from the idea that govt has NOTHING to do with a better society. On the contrary, it is the glue that holds us together.

How many IBCM missiles have you bought ? Do you own a Catapillar earth mover, or any Catapillar equipment ?
You paid taxes to build a society in which they were able to thrive, ? There was a day, many a day, when we were not taxed. In fact, imcome tax was supposed to be temporary.
Just fracking wow. I didn't sell anything. You want half of my leftovers after taking half of what what I made ? After my wealth enabling a better society ? What did you give me, or my desendents ?
Who here has argued that government has nothing to do with a better society ? It is not the glue which has kept us as held together as we saw with the English colonies.
I work for my children, to provide for them. I give them my all. You want to take 50% of what I can give them while alive, and don't want to allow me to give them the leftovers ? You want more, ?

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Why should it be necessary to give tax breaks to businesses? If nobody does it (i.e. other states), then it wouldn't be necessary. A good thriving society should be a good incentive to want to live and work there.

Again, you are advocating for the ban of sales ? You don't shop for sales ?
Evidently, Unions, public sector unions, are not creating a good thriving society. Why is everybody fleeing ?

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: I didn't think so.

I didn't think you could, :razz:, .

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: Ive been at ground Zero for the last few days writing articles and taking pictures, and ill lay it down for you.

Writing articles ? Links ?

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: I went to madison with a clear non partisan mind and after hearing the arguments, seeing the facts, seeking out the evidence and hearing what the news media is NOT broadcasting i can see why many Republicans on here would think that the protesters are no more than College kids, ex hippies, homeless and overpaid govt workers.

Hey doofus, reality check, .
Clear, nonpartisan mind my azz.

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: Oh wait that is me being DEMOCRATIC AND NOT A NAZI REPUBLICAN

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: That nearly every Republican i have encountered has at times proved to me to be a rather unsavory person.

frack you and your clear non partisan mind, .

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Ramsespride, thanks for the post. It helps to get the facts injected into this discussion.

I can understand your thanks, but the perceived facts are not relevant.

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: I also get really sick when i see a "turkey mentality" on here. By definition that means that everyone follows the same set because that is what they are ...

Hello pot, meet the kettle, . Get out of the frying pan.
You guys are just too stupid to run away. I am getting pissed, and getting another beer. A Schlitz. Made in Milwaukee Wisconsin, The beer which made Milwaukee famous, just to keep it on topic. I may not live there, I may not vote there, I may not drink there, but I live in the USA.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: You bring up wealth redistribution; are you against ALL wealth redistribution? Including the last 3 decades of uninterrupted UPWARD wealth redistribution?

Upward wealth redistribution ? Can you define it ? Would it be like union demands ?

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Also understand that every type of govt spending is wealth redistribution. It has to be. Otherwise, no roads would get paved, bridges bult, etc.

It has to be, and you offer that as an example ?

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: I have talked about this with my psychological Counselors and they ALL agree he is a Sociopath bent on revenge after some "wrong" done to him in his past.

I thought so, :thumbsdown:, At least you are seeing counselors. You might try a better batch though. They all agreed on a determination, without ever having him laid on the couch, .

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: That's a regressive tax rate, since rich people pay the same amount for food gas, etc. as the rest of us pay.

All men were created equal. Your problem is ?

quote Originally posted by carnut122: Granted, your government employees seem to be more than fairly compensated for their jobs, but looking at this, I'm starting to wonder if this is a political move to get the middle class stirred up enough to move the votes to a certain party?

It isn't, but oh my goodness.

I don't suppose the state democrats voting FOR collective bargaining, and for near unrestrained spending on schools and education, isn't a political move to get teachers, unions, and state employees to vote for a certain party. And I'm sure the state democrats voting for things that tax wealthier people to give to those that don't work isn't a political move to stir people to move their votes to a certain party.


The fact that the government employees DO get more than fairly compensated and STILL want more DOES stir people to vote for a certain party. The party that will stand up to these people and tell them that enough is enough, and you do not get to abuse collective bargaining to force even MORE taxes on the citizens.

But you have it backward. Republicans and tea party voters VOTED these people into office to DO what they are DOING. This is what they were voted into office to do. To restore a BALANCE of power so that fiscal sanity can have an opportunity to be restored.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: It isn't, but oh my goodness. I don't suppose the state democrats voting FOR collective bargaining, and for near unrestrained spending on schools and education, isn't a political move to get teachers, unions, and state employees to vote for a certain party. And I'm sure the state democrats voting for things that tax wealthier people to give to those that don't work isn't a political move to stir people to move their votes to a certain party. The fact that the government employees DO get more than fairly compensated and STILL want more DOES stir people to vote for a certain party. The party that will stand up to these people and tell them that enough is enough, and you do not get to abuse collective bargaining to force even MORE taxes on the citizens. But you have it backward. Republicans and tea party voters VOTED these people into office to DO what they are DOING. This is what they were voted into office to do. To restore a BALANCE of power so that fiscal sanity can have an opportunity to be restored.

I think you are voicing what I'm starting to see as a move to mobilize the "dispossessed" and out of work folks to rise up against those who are employed by the government(union). I keep hearing, "government employees should not make more money than you (which is not a realistic view in a "McDonald's economy"). This division of the middle class probably would be most effective during an economic depression and shortly after property taxes are paid.
I make a decent living (yes, as a teacher), but not when compared to the parents of my students. Most, who would have never previously considered doing what I do, probably now sit at home wondering why I'm making so much money. Some of these people used to make a couple months of my salary by selling a local residence or being the contractor of a spec home(OK, I admit that I wondered why I wasn't doing what they were doing).
So, is a wedge being driven through the middle class based on political agenda(s)? Yes, there is no money, and it does sound like the Wisconsin union has been perhaps too successful, but it appears that this is about more than balancing the budget(the unions agreed to the concessions) or killing off the unions. I respect your view and all of those Wisconsins as you're there and I'm just looking on from outside the bowl. But, let me ask, what is the general consensus about including all government employees except firefighters and policemen? What's that all about? Are the politicians worried that there will be a riot and nobody would show up to help? If so, is that not also "blackmail" as some have described happening from union?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: You're welcome! You are just upset because you think that their collective bargaining is being forbidden or entirely eliminated, It isn't and neither are the unions. The litigation being passed is neccesary to help balance their budget and make things a bit more fair for the taxpayers, who are the ones footing the state workers pay and benefits. The budget crisis is the straw that broke this camel's back and now there are repercussions to be paid by those abusing the system. It's time for ALL of us to tighten our belts equally.

It's not about balancing the budget! The next step will be outsourcing public jobs. Perhaps to foriegn companies, even countries... "to make things a bit more fair to the taxpayer." Sounds radical but it's not that far away.

quote Originally posted by carnut122: So, is a wedge being driven through the middle class based on political agenda(s)? But, let me ask, what is the general consensus about including all government employees except firefighters and policemen? What's that all about? Are the politicians worried that there will be a riot and nobody would show up to help? If so, is that not also "blackmail" as some have described happening from union?

This IS about LIMITING the OVER power of the unions. It isn't about BREAKING the union.

As I have stated multiple times before, this is not "driving some wedge", other than it IS driving a wedge between those that would bankrupt the state.

The REALITY is that this proposal SAVES middle class jobs. If the budget was going to be balanced, and the unions REFUSED to make ANY concessions, WHICH THEY HAD AND STILL DO, then 1,500 jobs were going to be eliminated. But the unions didn't care about those 1,500 people. They still wanted their IMBALANCED POWER advantage.


There STILL will be unions. They STILL have some power from being a union, AND they have the democrat representatives as their advocates. They ALSO used to have collective bargaining power. The other (fiscally responsible) side, had only republican representation. And so there was a massive imbalance of power and the unions exploited it.


Well, the unions STILL have the democratic representation. It isn't like now they have NOTHING.


I don't know WHY the police and fire got exempted. Possibly they just wanted to tackle what they did the first time around. Can you blame them? This has been hard enough. And as it turns out, the BEHAVIOR of the employees and unions has been DESPICABLE.


Regarding Tigger's assertion that this is the first step in sending jobs overseas, that is ridiculous. This measure SAVED Wisconsin jobs. Over 1,500.

Now. Which side is REALLY "for middle class families". It isn't the unions and it isn't the democrats.
Regarding teachers, even WITH what they are being asked to contribute, they are STILL paid better than the vast majority of the teachers in the U.S. So don't take this as some anti-teacher, hate teachers, pile on teachers, disrespect teachers thing by republicans. It ISN'T. It SAVED teacher jobs, and public employee jobs.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Regarding Tigger's assertion that this is the first step in sending jobs overseas, that is ridiculous. This measure SAVED Wisconsin jobs. Over 1,500.

The only jobs saved were the ones Gov. Walker threatened to take away. The threat of job cuts was used as pressure to get the bill passed. Create or use a crisis to take control.

quote Originally posted by Tigger: The only jobs saved were the ones Gov. Walker threatened to take away. The threat of job cuts was used as pressure to get the bill passed. Create or use a crisis to take control.

I suppose from Michigan, you were unaware of the REALITY.

We are over 3.5 BILLION dollars in debt from the past democratic governor and state legislature, and we actually have a constitutional mandate to have a balanced budget! Tax revenues are NOT going up. And he IS going to balance the budget.

I know this is going to sound STRANGE, but then the plan is to actually CUT SPENDING. Yeah, I know. Weird, isn't it?

And so to cut spending, that was going to mean JOBS were GOING to be cut. You can dream it was ONLY some negotiating ploy if you want. But I live here and I KNOW the governor (not personally) and know the situation.

Those 1,500 jobs WERE GONE without the LIVABLE concessions he was planning to have people take.


Regarding "create a crisis", Walker didn't CREATE this issue. The democrat controlled state legislature and democrat governor did.
Regarding it being a "crisis", it ISN'T a crisis. It is a situation. It has to be dealt with. He is dealing with it. He is giving people input on how to deal with it:

1,500 jobs gone (to start): or contribute 5% to your retirement, and pay about $150/month (not insignificant on either count, but livable).


And btw, we aren't going to keep dealing with this over and over again due to a huge imbalance of power given government employees by having unions, PLUS collective bargaining, PLUS representation from democrats. We can't take away democrat representation, nor should we. We don't want to take away unions. People should have that right. So...we ARE taking away collective bargaining power so the playing field IS MORE LEVEL.
Don't try to misportray this thing. It has been open and honest from the beginning. The 1,500 jobs WERE going to be eliminated. That wasn't a bargaining threat. That WAS a reality. Happily, the REPUBLICANS found and made a DIFFERENT way to save middle class jobs for now and for going forward. The unions were going to be completely happy to not change a thing, and let those 1,500 people lose their jobs. Nice.

quote Originally posted by Tigger: The next step will be outsourcing public jobs. Perhaps to foriegn companies, even countries... "to make things a bit more fair to the taxpayer." Sounds radical but it's not that far away.

I think its doubtful that'll happen, but its equally likely to happen regardless whether or not there's a union and collective bargaining agreements in place. Ask all those former union manufacturing workers in WI how well their union contract kept their employers from moving production to Mexico or China.

quote Originally posted by Tigger: It's not about balancing the budget! The next step will be outsourcing public jobs. Perhaps to foriegn companies, even countries... "to make things a bit more fair to the taxpayer." Sounds radical but it's not that far away.

Wow, it's going to be difficult on the children to bus them to India for classes, or convince fires to happen in Malaysia instead of Milwaukee.

Yes, he threatened to cut 1500 jobs to cut spending. That was the ONLY option he had in "balancing the budget" wasn't it?

You won, woo hoo the wicked witch is dead. It's over, you don't have to be a Republican stooge anymore.

quote Originally posted by Tigger: Yes, he threatened to cut 1500 jobs to cut spending. That was the ONLY option he had in "balancing the budget" wasn't it?

He said if the cuts aren't made, he'd have to lay off workers. The cuts were made, so he won't have to lay off workers. That's what happens when you don't have all the money you want to spend. Is that so difficult to understand, tigger?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Wow, it's going to be difficult on the children to bus them to India for classes, or convince fires to happen in Malaysia instead of Milwaukee.

No, your kids, scratch that, everyone elses kids in public schools will be learning from a teacher(s) working for a private company, perhaps one foreign owned. Lecture being broadcast into the classroom on a TV via satellite. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm saying it wouldn't be out of the question the way things are going.

quote Originally posted by Tigger: No, your kids, scratch that, everyone elses kids in public schools will be learning from a teacher(s) working for a private company, perhaps one foreign owned. Lecture being broadcast into the classroom on a TV via satellite. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm saying it wouldn't be out of the question the way things are going.

And a teacher's union could prevent that, how?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: He said if the cuts aren't made, he'd have to lay off workers. The cuts were made, so he won't have to lay off workers. That's what happens when you don't have all the money you want to spend. Is that so difficult to understand, tigger?

In the private sector if there isn't enough money coming in they lay people off. That's what happens in the real world.