That was one of the first ideas. For those exact reasons, we didn't go that direction. We were also worried about heat warp, fade, longevity in general and cost of material
What we are doing now is much more permanent and cost effective
Originally posted by Slammed: That was one of the first ideas. For those exact reasons, we didn't go that direction. We were also worried about heat warp, fade, longevity in general and cost of material
I had a feeling when you read my post you would be kinda "Been there, done that
quote
Originally posted by Slammed: What we are doing now is much more permanent and cost effective
Originally posted by JohnWPB: From what I gather, I am pretty sure that this is exactly what the set-back is right now. Dye cutting the vinyl to size is the simple part. I have a $200 cutter here that can do it. Trying to then adhere that vinyl to the inside of the lens, time and time again, to the same spot every time.... there in lies the problem.
It's not like wrapping a fender for instance, where you lay it down, and then trim off the excess, and wrap it around the edge. This has to be placed in the exact spot, as it is precisely pre-cut to shape, and does not go to the edge in this case. As we know vinyl easily stretches around curved surfaces. However this is an "Inner curve" and it needs to almost shrink at the curves, so it does not bunch up.
This can be done, but imagine the amount of time to do this on each and every set., it certainly would not be efficient, and even then almost impossible to get the same results on each set, each and every time.
This. Plus it would be difficult to keep air bubbles from forming between the lens and vinyl. Then there's also the problem that the sun will destroy it in short order, with the adhesive being on the lens side. Vinyl might seem like a good cheap option at first, but difficulty in applying it in such a manner to be useful here would cause an unsustainable increase in ongoing production cost. This would be a poor fix for delamination issues in original lenses.
If you want to do it so the vinyl is applied in the normal correct way, against a second piece of material inside the lens, which is then just pressed in, then you've just overengineered the application of vinyl. It would make more sense at that point to just produce a second set of molds for the inner black plastic, and then a third set of molds for pressing the two pieces together. in pretty much the same way the OEM lenses were made. This would produce the best quality lenses, but might increase the initial costs significantly.
Some sort of ink printing solution would be the most cost effective, and from what I gather from Slammed's posts, the solution which he has been attempting to get these produced. There are some repeatability issues with printing on curved surfaces such as the Fiero tail lenses are, however. It seems like these such issues are what are being hit at the moment, and delaying production. Hopefully he, and whomever he is working with to produce these, can work through the issues and get around >95% repeatability, to keep costs down, and get these available for those who need them.
Just an idea. If applying the vinyl is the problem why not just sell the lens as a kit. The customer can install the vinyl himself or if he chooses not use it ? If you know you have a product that works and looks good but are just having a problem applying it over and over again, then eliminate that process and just supply the materials. You may have to charge less per set of lenses but will be way ahead of the game in sales and one less step to deal with. Like I said, just an idea if this is what is holding everything up. Best of luck to you.
This. Plus it would be difficult to keep air bubbles from forming between the lens and vinyl. Then there's also the problem that the sun will destroy it in short order, with the adhesive being on the lens side. Vinyl might seem like a good cheap option at first, but difficulty in applying it in such a manner to be useful here would cause an unsustainable increase in ongoing production cost. This would be a poor fix for delamination issues in original lenses.
If you want to do it so the vinyl is applied in the normal correct way, against a second piece of material inside the lens, which is then just pressed in, then you've just overengineered the application of vinyl. It would make more sense at that point to just produce a second set of molds for the inner black plastic, and then a third set of molds for pressing the two pieces together. in pretty much the same way the OEM lenses were made. This would produce the best quality lenses, but might increase the initial costs significantly.
Some sort of ink printing solution would be the most cost effective, and from what I gather from Slammed's posts, the solution which he has been attempting to get these produced. There are some repeatability issues with printing on curved surfaces such as the Fiero tail lenses are, however. It seems like these such issues are what are being hit at the moment, and delaying production. Hopefully he, and whomever he is working with to produce these, can work through the issues and get around >95% repeatability, to keep costs down, and get these available for those who need them.
having worked a job that supplied ink products for outside that have to deal with the sun, they have yet to come up with an ink that last, and why most signs printed for outdoor use are done in dye not ink.. the vinyl will last longer than any ink avail.. as of now..
We are now using rubber dies, a fixture for alignment, frosting the inside where the tint is applied and then 2 coats of DBU and 2 coats of DCU2002 over the frosted area. We have three 2x3 IR medium wave lamps, so we can do a few sets a time. To say the original way is "better" is ridiculous. It is overly complicated and flawed for a small run like this. But, it is 100% repeatable and automated. Something we obviously don't need to do
and to clear up any confusion, I am the one doing all of the solid modeling and machining. All the materials are supplied by my employer and Curbell. This is my actual job, I'm getting paid to do this. As well as the other Fiero stuff I've been posting. Things I'd like to get to lol
Originally posted by dobey: it would be difficult to keep air bubbles from forming between the lens and vinyl. Then there's also the problem that the sun will destroy it in short order, with the adhesive being on the lens side. Vinyl might seem like a good cheap option at first, but difficulty in applying it in such a manner to be useful here would cause an unsustainable increase in ongoing production cost. This would be a poor fix for delamination issues in original lenses.
If you want to do it so the vinyl is applied in the normal correct way, against a second piece of material inside the lens, which is then just pressed in, then you've just overengineered the application of vinyl. It would make more sense at that point to just produce a second set of molds for the inner black plastic, and then a third set of molds for pressing the two pieces together. in pretty much the same way the OEM lenses were made. This would produce the best quality lenses, but might increase the initial costs significantly.
Ummmm the vinyl was initially going to be just a template to mask off areas not being coated, not to be left inside the lights. :\
Ummmm the vinyl was initially going to be just a template to mask off areas not being coated, not to be left inside the lights. :\
Whose design? E.Furgal's suggestion seemed to be to just use vinyl for the black portions and leave it in the lense, and not as a way to mask off the clear sections.
Anyway, the last post from Slammed clears up what is being done, and is basically what I was expecting it to be, given the other previous posts from him.
The largest hurdle is conquering the nay-sayers on here.
I say everyone in this thread that even had the slightest doubt shouldn't be allowed to buy any
There is a big difference between ”nay-sayer” and ”slightest doubt”. Case in point: I'm in the middle of a milti-million dollar project that has never been attempted before (to my knowledge). Parts of the project have been accomplished by others; other parts have been attempted and failed. There have been hurdles during my own efforts. Do I ever doubt myself accomplishing my goal? Yes. Are there moments of frustration, setbacks, etc? Yes. Will I accomplish it? Yes, one way or another. There is no turning back, and I always keep my word. Also, it's a unique personal and professional challenge. I was ridiculed at a recent professional conference because this ”has already been proven to be impossible”. When I complete this project, should I be penalized for my doubt? Oh, that same group of professionals is scheduled to receive a demonstration of my project in August, the week after the project is due to be completed.
There is a big difference between ”nay-sayer” and ”slightest doubt”. Case in point: I'm in the middle of a milti-million dollar project that has never been attempted before (to my knowledge). Parts of the project have been accomplished by others; other parts have been attempted and failed. There have been hurdles during my own efforts. Do I ever doubt myself accomplishing my goal? Yes. Are there moments of frustration, setbacks, etc? Yes. Will I accomplish it? Yes, one way or another. There is no turning back, and I always keep my word. Also, it's a unique personal and professional challenge. I was ridiculed at a recent professional conference because this ”has already been proven to be impossible”. When I complete this project, should I be penalized for my doubt? Oh, that same group of professionals is scheduled to receive a demonstration of my project in August, the week after the project is due to be completed.
I'm intrigued....can you let us in on more info about what the project is? We promise we won't tell...
Hammering away. It's race season and we are really busy. We are about to hire on another machinist so hopefully this will progress faster when I'm freed up
Hammering away. It's race season and we are really busy. We are about to hire on another machinist so hopefully this will progress faster when I'm freed up
Well it's a week past your "self imposed deadline" to show us some photo's I think we are all getting anxious! I know I also check my email a couple extra times throughout the day for posts to this thread, especially for ones that say: "Slammed has just replied to the following thread you subscribed to: "Reproduction TAIL LIGHTS coming soon"
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-14-2015).]
Good luck on the project Slammed. I just hope that you are not MsLoriFiero . You can find the history of her and her quarter window project in the archives. Orders placed with this individual did not go well.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Heddman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Good luck on the project Slammed. I just hope that you are not MsLoriFiero . You can find the history of her and her quarter window project in the archives. Orders placed with this individual did not go well.
Wrong side of the country. THAT never crossed my mind.
Mslorifiero and friendofyours were a couple of bad eggs on the forum. If you do a search you can find a few nasty threads concerning them. At this point I think it may be best left in the past
As fun as it is having people assume I'm a crook, because we missed our own deadline, I am going to stop posting.
In just my short time here, I've noticed the whole forum is very negative and not something I want to be a part of. The ratio of upbeat frequent posters, to negative berating ones, is simply too low. Keep an eye out for them being for sale elsewhere.
There we go the Bad Seeds spoil the whole bushel again.
Those of us who love reading your updates and your adventure would appreciate it if you would hang around and occasionally give us an update I am very much looking forward to purchasing at least one set when the time comes that you bring them to production
As fun as it is having people assume I'm a crook, because we missed our own deadline, I am going to stop posting. Keep an eye out for them being for sale elsewhere.
Cheers
Well, I wish you the very best, but honestly speaking, developing a major attitude, towards what is basically the only targeted marketing group you have for your product is not a wise decision.
Yes, there are negative people here, there are everywhere. MANY of the ones here have a good right to be cautious, whether you can understand that or not. You admitted that you are new to this forum, and group of people. Do a little research on Dean, Lori, FriendOfYours, and quite a few others, you will see an unfortunate pattern of broken promises that have cost members here LITERALLY tens's of thousands of dollars. They all started with what appeared as "good intentions".
Again, I wish you the best, and I optimistically look forward to you having items for sale to the Fiero Community, but please have a bit of understanding for the doubters and the cautious amongst us.
As far as this Pennock's messages board, I hope you will reconsider. I think some of what may have seemed like "barbs" directed at you was at least partly in jest.
I see a lot of "I bet he's a crook" from people in here.
And when he finally says "You know what, I don't have time for this", I see more of "WE WERE RIGHT GUYS! HE WAS A CROOK!"
I'm going to say something that I don't say in here often... SHUT THE **** UP AND LET YOUR VENDORS BRING PRODUCTS TO MARKET! You are NOT obligated to purchase a damned thing until a product is released. You are NOT required to speak up against a product or a vendor just because you may have once heard of another vendor who screwed people over. If you can't say anything nice, don't say a damned thing. The internet grants you "Anonymity", but the problem is that too many of us know each other outside of this forum. It isn't as anonymous as people seem to think. I know this from first hand experience when nearly everyone involved in the Tyler Project bitched about a motor being installed in the car by a group of people we didn't know. I ended up personally apologizing to the guys on behalf of every one of the naysayers because it really soured their part of the project.
Not everyone is Rodney Dickman, but how the hell are we supposed to get good quality vendors if everyone is so bitchy about past assholes?
Everyone assumes that everyone else is out to **** them over in here, and I'm getting very sick of seeing a forum I used to love hanging out on turn into a steaming pile of negativity...
[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 07-17-2015).]
I am so waiting to buy a set!!!!!
