The Democrats who have ran away in a parliamentary trick are afraid the Republicans will pull some kind of 'parliamentary' trick and get the restrictions passed. Now the reason the Republicans can't get the bill passed without the Democrats is because they need a super majority for a spending bill. They can however pass non-spending bills with a regular majority. So the Republicans need to pass this union restriction bill with the regular majority so Democrats will come back to Wisconsin.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-03-2011).]

They should pass a bill that says employees should be at work during the days they are supposed to be working.

Vacation/sick days are one thing, this is crazy.

I'd say this no matter what stupid animal they use or alphabet letter they align themselves with.

Effin ENOUGH, already!

So why wasn't this post tagged political? Cliff went to the trouble to invest his time (and as a professional programmer his time is, literally, Real Money) to provide that option. It seem to me to be incumbent upon the people who visit his house to follow his rules, if for no other reason than basic respect for him.

I'm curious. Where does it show on the thread how it's been tagged? There's nothing meant by any of this. I've just never seen a tag on a thread. Is it in my settings somewhere and I have it turned off?

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Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy (In A Museum)

Check out this new link!

http://www.foxnews.com/poli...work-debate/#content


It says that because of the legislation being pushed in Wisconsin, that Indiana has now laid out a bill that will also make their state "Right To Work."

It also said that because of Ohio and Wisconsin, there are other states that are now in the process of drafting legislation that would allow Right to Work... including.... (wait for it).... MICHIGAN!!!!


The states now considering it because of Ohio and Wisconsin are:

Massachusetts, Indiana, Alaska, New Mexico, Connecticut, and Minnesota...


Sounds like 2011 will turn out to be the year of "change"

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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by whadeduck: I'm curious. Where does it show on the thread how it's been tagged? There's nothing meant by any of this. I've just never seen a tag on a thread. Is it in my settings somewhere and I have it turned off?

It's because I think Jazzman has it set so it doesn't show political threads, and when thread that may even hint at being political he has to point out that he can see it. While that isn't necessarily the case this time, it is a recurring thing.

Yeah I missed that but from the title it sure is clear it's political.

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: It's because I think Jazzman has it set so it doesn't show political threads, and when thread that may even hint at being political he has to point out that he can see it. While that isn't necessarily the case this time, it is a recurring thing.

When you create a new topic, one of the things that is mandatory to do is to check a category. If a category isn't checked the topic will fail to post. There's no default setting, Cliff set it up that way when he wrote the software for that function.

A mouse click is all it takes, it's not really all that complicated.

And yes, I've got my filters permanently set to never see religious or political posts. Unfortunately, Cliff's efforts are in vain when people choose to ignore him.

Brad

Funny, somehow I manage to filter threads on my own. I read the title, and I instantly knew it was political. Didn't need Cliff to hold my hand.

Jim

The Republicans should be scheduling bills for the regular majority and super majority every other day so the Dems have to keep driving back and forth out of state.

They don't actually need a supermajority; they simply need a majority. But they must have a quorum of at least 20 senators in attendance. Since there are only 19 republicans, that is why they need at least 1 of 14 democrats to come to work once in a while. That is a requirement for BUDGET legislation.

That said, there are plenty of non-budgetary items they could get done while they wait. Look for them to bring up something like concealed carry, voter ID, or maybe right-to-work and start debating with only the 19 republicans. This would bring unbearable pressure for the dumbs to show up for work so they don't have to explain why they didn't vote against whatever gets passed.

The other thing that's likely to end the standoff is a debt restructuring deadline this Friday. If that passes without the debt being dealt with, the state will have to suspend state aid payments to elderly and poor people; and I'm betting the dems won't want to have to explain to their voters why they needed to put that added pain upon their base when it still makes no dent in the republicans' resolve to deal with the union privileges the union piggies have made a 50 year habit of abusing. They're going to lose that one either way; putting the aid payments on hold won't serve any purpose other than to make things even worse fo them.

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 02-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: When you create a new topic, one of the things that is mandatory to do is to check a category. If a category isn't checked the topic will fail to post. There's no default setting, Cliff set it up that way when he wrote the software for that function. A mouse click is all it takes, it's not really all that complicated. And yes, I've got my filters permanently set to never see religious or political posts. Unfortunately, Cliff's efforts are in vain when people choose to ignore him.

Holy crap dude, calm down. Scolding people on the internet doesn't make you cool.

quote Originally posted by D B Cooper: The other thing that's likely to end the standoff is a debt restructuring deadline this Friday. If that passes without the debt being dealt with, the state will have to suspend state aid payments to elderly and poor people; and I'm betting the dems won't want to have to explain to their voters why they needed to put that added pain upon their base when it still makes no dent in the republicans' resolve to deal with the union privileges the union piggies have made a 50 year habit of abusing. They're going to lose that one either way; putting the aid payments on hold won't serve any purpose other than to make things even worse fo them.

The D's are counting on the Media to blame it all on the R's just like during the Clinton shutdown.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: The D's are counting on the Media to blame it all on the R's just like during the Clinton shutdown.

Problem is the media is Rep controlled.

turnabout is fair play. When any democrat bill is to be voted on, have all the republicans take a vacation too. Then you can have a state government that can do absolutely nothing.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: turnabout is fair play. When any democrat bill is to be voted on, have all the republicans take a vacation too. Then you can have a state government that can do absolutely nothing.

Sure, both sides can act like little babies, but this does NOTHING to help the people. If they did nothing, that wouldn't be as bad as them doing "nothing" yet spending tons of $, and enjoying all the perks of their elevated status. Wonder who's paying for them to hide out like this? I'm sure they aren't sitting scared in some dingy motel.

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 02-22-2011).]

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Funny, somehow I manage to filter threads on my own. I read the title, and I instantly knew it was political. Didn't need Cliff to hold my hand. Jim

Obviously some people do need their hands held. Any wonder they also happen to be liberals?

buncha horse crap
all around
neither side is even half right

everything hinged down to a single spite point

I have to disagree with that.

This isn't some "spite point". It is a MAJOR issue in dealing with employees going forward.

There is a MAJOR imbalance in the process. State employees have their desires protected by having a union, AND forced collective bargaining agreements, AND the liberal democrats in the legislature.

The citizens of the state have the conservative republicans to protect them from being gouged by the state employees.

That tremendous imbalance of power, plus the entitlement mentality of government employees, plus the greed of union management has made it that while working taxpayers of the state have had salary cuts, benefit cuts, and/or layoffs, the government employees have used their power to not have ANY reduction in ANYthing.


This has driven the state (along with other liberal spending) has driven the state almost 4 BILLION dollars in debt.


Time to make the power between the two sides more equitable. No more collective bargaining agreements. THAT is what the fight is about, and THAT is what is going away. State government employees STILL have their unions, and the liberal democrats. There is STILL a balance of power.

What they are SCREAMING about is that they won't have the huge power ADVANTAGE they abused in the past.


So, yes, this is a bunch of horse crap, but it is NOT all around.


And ramsespride, maybe it is different in the Appleton area, but the media is NOT controlled by the republicans. The media is, like the rest of the country, heavily liberal leaning.

Lol maybe he thinks of 'the news' as just WISN. You have to admit McKenna, Webber, and Belling are a tad bit right-leaning

There just trying to do what needs to be done. Government should have to do just like me.....live within your income. I retired and went from $10-15K a month to $1,200 a month. I dont have as many frivolous toys, but Im getting by just fine.

And the Indiana Democrats are OUT OF THERE! LOL

This is just too damn funny. I betcha these lefties think they are just too damn smart for their own good.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Government should have to do just like me.....live within your income. .

So what do you do when that happens? You try to find ways to save. So as an example, the government says they could save 65 MILLION dollars by changing the health insurance provide for the teachers. You know, if you are being priced out of something, you find another source.

Oh wait, collective bargaining agreement. Due to that, you HAVE to give us our health insurance from WEA Trust. Why? We could save 65 million by using someone else.

WEA Trust is owned and run by WEAC. Uh, that is the TEACHER'S UNION.


Without collective bargaining, the government could get bids from insurance companies in order to save money. But no, the teacher's union forces the government to use THEIR insurance company in spite of much higher cost.


Would the government still provide teacher's insurance? Yes. Same coverage benefits? Yes. But the union doesn't care. Feed OUR insurance company the business, and oh, btw, it COSTS WAY MORE.


THAT is an example of what has been going on in Wisconsin. And it is going to stop.

What people forget is that unions are corporations, and they are out for one thing... PROFIT! Why are all of these people trying to protect a business that uses them? I don't understand at all. Why do teachers need unions? Is their work environment unsafe? If you are a good teacher, then you will keep your job..... you don't need a union!

so torn on this.....

I do agree that these employees do get somewhat extravagant compensation. tho, it is NOT as outragous as some may make it sound. But - I agree there could be some cutbacks - like everyone else. except, who?....hmmm....those financing this whole ordeal...they seem to be making more than ever....and STILL want more.....

but - greed vs greed is no answer.

and - to try and make collective bargaining illegal is just endlessly a wrong way to go. I can see making joining the union optional being a good thing.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: to try and make collective bargaining illegal is just endlessly a wrong way to go. I can see making joining the union optional being a good thing.

Making joining the union optional doesn't accomplish anything. That just eliminates some people from the union. The state still has to abide by any collective bargaining agreement.

It is my understanding that a lot of state employee unions don't have collective bargaining agreements. And those state employees aren't devastated.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Making joining the union optional doesn't accomplish anything. That just eliminates some people from the union. The state still has to abide by any collective bargaining agreement. It is my understanding that a lot of state employee unions don't have collective bargaining agreements. And those state employees aren't devastated.

I am having a tough time seeing what the difference between collective bargaining & a union actually is

from here - it sounds like the same thing?

Me, too!

I think with collective bargaining, the union and the state government have to agree on every single little thing. Without it, they STILL get to bargain about salary, but not about everything.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Me, too! I think with collective bargaining, the union and the state government have to agree on every single little thing. Without it, they STILL get to bargain about salary, but not about everything.

The current fight doesn't involve the public safety employees--police and fire. Only teachers and some state workers are being forced to forfeit their collective bargaining rights. The police and fire folks are out in support of the teachers, etc because they see it as an assault on unions in general.

I was a government employee for 16 years and we weren't required to join a union. We were prohibited from striking, sickouts, etc and only had union representation in Management-employee disputes. The only advantage to being in a federal worker's union is when management decides they are going to shaft you. Since I was a supervisor, I couldn't join a union (I didn't want to join) and I had to hire an attorney when management decided to shaft me. Funny thing is that with an attorney, I got nearly 400 hours of overtime pay and a change in an efficiency rating that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise without representation.

The Wisconsin union folks have agreed to pay cuts and have agreed to give the governor what he asked for except to take away their collective bargaining rights. This is a fight for the existence of the union and not about money. If it was about money, then why did the governor exempt cops and firemen from the collective bargaining provision?

quote Originally posted by starlightcoupe: The Wisconsin union folks have agreed to pay cuts and have agreed to give the governor what he asked for except to take away their collective bargaining rights. This is a fight for the existence of the union and not about money. If it was about money, then why did the governor exempt cops and firemen from the collective bargaining provision?

This fight is not about money as much as it IS to take away their collective bargaining rights.

It is NOT a fight for existence of the union. They already have some rights as a union from a statute written in something like 1905.

They ALSO have protection from being shafted by their representation of their interests by liberal democrats.

They have ABUNDANT protection from being shafted. What is happening is they are having THEIR power to shaft the general public taken away, and they don't like it.


WITHOUT having that taken away, you can already see the effect they have had. They had THREE YEARS to voluntarily participate in having some of the cuts that the private sector had to eat. THEY REFUSED.

BEING SHAFTED? Even with the pay cuts they are NOW ready to take, they STILL are taking WAY LESS of a cut than most of the private sector has taken.

Because when you put your life at risk in your job, it's a bit hard for someone else to place an abstract value on it?

quote This is a fight for the existence of the union and not about money. If it was about money, then why did the governor exempt cops and firemen from the collective bargaining provision?

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-22-2011).]

I cant believe all these teachers who have been protesting still have jobs. I still say they should fire any taking sick days and dont have a written doctors excuse. Any doctor giving fake ones should have his license revolked.

I see police and fire as totally different, they put their life on the line. Im sure there are ways to cut costs there though too. I dont know how its done now, but Id give raises based on performance and not how long theyve been there.

That wont work for teachers though, from what I see most teachers fall way short of even being competent. Yes there are some great, dedicated ones.

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride Problem is the media is Rep controlled.

Besides FOX, who else in the media is controlled by the right? Are NBC, CBS, ABC ? How about some proof to back up your statement?

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 02-22-2011).]

I shouldn't have opened and commented in this thread but despite my better judgment, here I am.

This should make most folks happy here:
Democrats, unions, liberals: Bad. Edit: I forgot other popular views on these pages: Liberals are cowardly, don't love their country, are socialists, etc.
Republicans, conservatives, tea partiers: Good

The Republican party that I voted for from 1960-2004 is a perverted version of the Party of Lincoln. The Democratic Party that I feel had the best interests of American workers at heart is tilting at windmills and without leadership.

Now back to the Technical section. I don't belong here.

[This message has been edited by starlightcoupe (edited 02-22-2011).]

FWIW, that's big of you to admit.

The reason Collective Bargaining is so important, is the Clawback option. Tho concessions may be made now, there is always the option to clawback (recoup) those lost benefits later should the economy recover, but the downside to that is that it will just place things right back where they currently are--no way to adequately sustain them over the long term. We've already seen it begin to happen in the auto industry, as companies begin their way back to profitablility. Unions are already asking that some of the lost benefits begin to be reinstated. The same will hold true for govt workers on local and state levels. As populations grow, and the # of pensioners increase, the cost of govt spirals ever higher, partly due to the very large # of retirees they have to pay benefits to. States are also looking forward, to what they will have to pay out when Obamacare is fully implemented--they will have a higher portion of medicaire/medicaid costs passed on to them. It all adds up and there is just so much $$ to go around.

quote Originally posted by starlightcoupe: is tilting at windmills and without leadership.

Just curious... I have a lot of family from Holland, but I don't exactly get this phrase. What does that mean to "tilt at windmills?"

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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Just curious... I have a lot of family from Holland, but I don't exactly get this phrase. What does that mean to "tilt at windmills?"

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