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Northstar rebuild: Will style by Will
Started on: 12-29-2003 09:00 PM
Replies: 1159 (78846 views)
Last post by: Trinten on 04-13-2024 10:38 AM
Will
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Report this Post01-19-2022 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lol... So timing! Such wow!

I've been dorking around with trying to get a DBW throttle to fit the '95-'99 manifold. I've been looking at both a 78mm 6-wire LS4 throttle and a 80mm 6-wire '04-'06 LH2 RWD NorthStar throttle. The bolt patterns are different, so the Northstar throttle does not just bolt up to the Northstar manifold. Naturally I favor the 80mm throttle over the 78mm throttle. The manifold opening is ~79mm... I need to do a little arithmetic to see how the area blocked by the throttle shaft relates to the difference in area between the 80mm opening and 79mm opening.

I've tried several different orientations & configurations... it's just been slow going because I have to either modify the current prototype throttle adapter or make a new prototype in order to check a different orientation. The clearances are tight enough in enough places that I need to be able to bolt it on an check. Holding it up and looing at it doesn't get precise enough.

This is the only angle at which the LH2 throttle works, due to the relationship of the two bolt patterns. Note that I have the first modified water manifold here, with the intact coolant lobe. This is the '04-'06 LH2 RWD throttle. The lower left bolt hole on the throttle needs to rotate just enough to clear the counterbore for the bolt that holds the plate to the manifold.



I inspected my second modified water manifold more closely and the wall separating the coolant to the block and the coolant from the cylinder head kicks over where it's below the "lobe". This means that the passage flow area stays sort of constant through the area with the lobe, which forces some of the coolant flow up into the lobe. This is good from a heat exchange perspective, but not good if you cut the lobe off and intend to weld a lid on in its place, as that reduces the flow area of coolant to the right/rear bank. Suck. That means I probably should not be cutting that lobe off. I'd rather find that out now than when I get it to a track day and don't have enough cooling.

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Report this Post01-20-2022 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ordered custom plug wires from Magnecor today. They're working up a quote and will get back to me.
The lower row of coils goes to the front bank with 45 degree boots at the coil. The upper row of coils loops around and goes to the rear bank with 90 degree boots. Hope that doesn't blow too many minds over there.
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Trinten
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Report this Post01-20-2022 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice. I've read really good things about their wires. I wound up ordering a set of Taylor 409 wires for two reasons, first being the guy doing all the important work on my car and races uses them and said 'get these', and two, Magnecor (at the time) was note offering 10+mm wires. I trust your commentary / data based approach to this stuff, so when you get your wires, if you don't mind doing an Ohms test on them and when it's all running, let us know if you have any issues, it would be appreciated!

The Taylors have an average amount of resistance, but I've read this also prevents/reduces the chance of EM noise causing issues with other electrical items. One thread I read ran into an issue with EM noise from their wires messing with their FAST system. The FAST guy told them to get an old school radio and tune it to a dead station before starting the care to help look for EM noise, and that's how they found the problem. Crazy.
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Report this Post01-21-2022 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since spark plug wires are considered "wear parts", do you order more than one set?

********************************************************************************

 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:
The Taylors have an average amount of resistance, but I've read this also prevents/reduces the chance of EM noise causing issues with other electrical items. One thread I read ran into an issue with EM noise from their wires messing with their FAST system. The FAST guy told them to get an old school radio and tune it to a dead station before starting the care to help look for EM noise, and that's how they found the problem. Crazy.


A spark gap is a bit of a weird thing... it has high resistance, but once the voltage is high enough to establish an arc, the plasma is more conductive, so resistance is reduced. The negative resistance of the spark gap can cause oscillations of voltage and current (i.e. radio waves).

Back in the day, the first radio transmitters were based on spark gaps.

By adding positive resistance in the wire and/or spark plug, the coil/wire/plug system is damped enough so these unwanted oscillations are suppressed.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 01-21-2022).]

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Will
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Report this Post01-21-2022 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Since spark plug wires are considered "wear parts", do you order more than one set?



If the engine lasts that long, it'll be time to upgrade either to something with coil on plug ignition or to a Tesla Model S Plaid.
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La fiera
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Report this Post01-23-2022 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Nice. I've read really good things about their wires. I wound up ordering a set of Taylor 409 wires for two reasons, first being the guy doing all the important work on my car and races uses them and said 'get these', and two, Magnecor (at the time) was note offering 10+mm wires. I trust your commentary / data based approach to this stuff, so when you get your wires, if you don't mind doing an Ohms test on them and when it's all running, let us know if you have any issues, it would be appreciated!

The Taylors have an average amount of resistance, but I've read this also prevents/reduces the chance of EM noise causing issues with other electrical items. One thread I read ran into an issue with EM noise from their wires messing with their FAST system. The FAST guy told them to get an old school radio and tune it to a dead station before starting the care to help look for EM noise, and that's how they found the problem. Crazy.


I use MSD 8.5mm Super conductor universal 50ohms per foot and haven't had an EM problem.
Taylor 409 8.0mm has 350ohms per foot

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Will
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Report this Post02-02-2022 08:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

This is the only angle at which the LH2 throttle works, due to the relationship of the two bolt patterns. Note that I have the first modified water manifold here, with the intact coolant lobe. This is the '04-'06 LH2 RWD throttle. The lower left bolt hole on the throttle needs to rotate just enough to clear the counterbore for the bolt that holds the plate to the manifold.





I tried my prototype throttle adapter with this orientation/position last weekend. It was really close, but I also screwed up the position of the bore on the intake manifold pattern a little bit. Fixing that problem *should* allow everything to work right... The updated part has been lasered. I need to drill, counterbore and tap all the holes required, then test fit it.

I'm also doing some structural work to my house this weekend, so it's going to be busy.
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Report this Post02-06-2022 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
FINALLY got the adapter plate to work with one of the throttles. :-D :Yahoo!: :good:



OMGWTF



Plug wires and a throttle!



Plug wire routing



Magnecor even shrink tubed their logo and CYLINDER NUMBES on the coil end boots!



NEXT:

=>Accessory drive bracket:
I have the next rev of that with the laser peeps, but won't be able to mess with it until 2/19. The accessory drive is low priority, because I can move it from borrowed shop space to my dad's house on a battery if I have to.

=>Touch up the oil filter adapter pipe boss:
Since it's a little crooked and not quite deep enough, I probably get ONE revolution of the 3/8" pipe tap to fix it.

=>Positive terminal junction:
I'm going to modify the PS pump mount as I've discussed previously. That will let me integrate the alternator cable with the harness so that the engine only needs to be hooked up at the +12V junction block and ground.

=>Wiring:
==>Snag damaged Fiero engine bay harness & disassemble
==>Build wire list from documentation that Ryan sent
==>Place order with Ballenger or similar for terminals, connectors & wire
==>Build harness!
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Report this Post02-09-2022 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very nice progress. Ballenger sells a GM style (maybe GM) fast response IAT sensor that I ordered at the same time as all my plugs and pins. Check out wirebarn.com for very well priced wire in usable amounts if you need any. Also Eaton Bussman fuse/relay blocks can consolidate all your needs into one small weatherproof solution. You may have solutions for all of these things/know this all already but in case my research can be useful, these are the products I have selected.
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Will
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Report this Post02-28-2022 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Knocking things off the to-do list...

Here's the ongoing, but fairly straightforward development of the accessory drive bracket:







I'm relocating the idler pulley slightly



And will be popping the tensioner in up here, but not at this angle



I schwacked the power steering pump bracket from this:



Down to this:



And here's how it fits:



And the engine with these small things on the front:



I also pulled off the oil filter adapter... again... and re-re-re-re-tapped the oil pressure sender/switch port to make sure it is straight and the correct depth to keep the fitting tight to the adapter. As noted above, I need to figure out a fitting tree to get the oil pressure transducer installed, but that shouldn't be too bad.



I'd never used a tap guide before, but it worked and with results that surprised me. I guess it's a tool on the market because it works. My dad's tools don't always work, though.





I turned the tap liiiiiiiterally 1 revolution at a time in between test fits of the reducer elbow fitting w/ Aurora oil pressure sender. I worked it down to the depth I thought was good and thought I'd done a good job. I had been noticing that it seemed to take a lot of angular movement beyond hand tight in order to get the reducer elbow to tighten up. I was putting the tap away in the box I got it from and noticed it was labeled 3/8-18 NPSF. S? S?!? Oh GDMF F@#$% sunnova... :bad:

I snagged the correct NPTF tap, ran it in ONE more revolution and re-installed the fitting. There's exactly ONE thread of the fitting still out of the boss. I had to remove the oil pressure sender in order to run the reducer elbow all the way in, since it was so close that the sender hit a feature on the filter adapter. It tightened up enough that it should seal just fine, and it snug, square and straight, so I'm done with it... especially since doing anything else would require buying a new filter adapter from GM. If I can't get this joint to seal, then I'll think about that. It's good enough to get the engine running and wheels turning.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-01-2022).]

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Will
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Report this Post03-08-2022 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Because I was working on the Jeep, I didn't get anything done on The Mule last weekend, other than pull my '87 Fiero shop manual off the shelf in order to incorporate the Fiero body power distribution into my wire list for 2006 DTS wiring for 2006 Corvette ECM %)

Photos of the filter adapter:



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Report this Post03-22-2022 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My dad was able to check out a 55" belt that fit. 54.5" is too short to fit and 55.5" is just barely tight with the tensioner fully relaxed. He said the tensioner is about halfway through its travel, but the 55" will work. I won't be able to look at it until 4/02, but I might move the tensioner slightly to put it a little further in its travel in order to give myself a little more room for the belt to stretch over its service life.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-23-2022).]

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Will
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Report this Post03-28-2022 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've created about 60 of the probably 200 lines I'll need in my wire list to build the harness

I need to put together:
=>Power distribution, fusing and A/C Comp & Fuel pump relays from 1987 Fiero (Have paper manual)
=>Manifold harness production break from 1995 Cadillac (Have paper manual)
=>Most engine wiring from 2006 DTS (Electronic diagrams from Sinister)
=>ECM connector, oil level switch/temp sender, oil & A/C pressure transducers & MAF wiring from 2006 Corvette (Electronic diagrams from Sinister)
=>4 wire oil pressure sender/switch wiring from Olds Aurora (1999?)
=>DBW throttle wiring from 2006 STS (Electronic diagrams from Sinister)

The wiring won't be tucked... The harness will mount to the engine via P-clamps. It will be somewhat out of sight via careful routing, but will be well worked and well thought out at every point.
Once I get the wire list done, I need to put together the wire and connector order, then build the harness. Once the harness is built, I'll look at the numbers of wires in all the branches and forks and order enough of the right sizes of DR-25 to dress the harness. Once all that's done, I can add the bulkhead pass-through and ECM connectors.

I'm thinking pretty hard about a Deutsch bulkhead disconnect for the firewall, instead of trying to rework an OE pass-through.
I've heard of people having problems with the C203 connector. I can see that some might, but I haven't. 14 cavity male/female pairs are not very common, so I'm not sure what to replace it with. I might do a pair of 8 cavity Delphi GT connectors. The clutch switch wire has already taken up an empty cavity in the C203.
I know I'll need 6 wires for the DBW pedal and 4 for cruise control, so I could add a 10 cavity Delphi GT connector just for those functions.

Of course there's a long correspondence course I have to get done for the Navy this week, then an in-person course next week, then a murder board (which is kinda like water board, but not quite) for my warfare pin sometime in April.
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Report this Post03-30-2022 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On further thought... if I use one 8 cavity GT connector and one 10 cavity GT connector to replace the C203, that will give me 18 cavities to replace 14 cavities. I can use female terminals in those two connectors on the ECM harness. I can then add another 10 cavity GT connector for DBW & Cruise, but install the male terminal side on the ECM harness to differentiate it from the 10 cavity replacing the C203 connector.
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Report this Post03-31-2022 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Of course there's a long correspondence course I have to get done for the Navy this week, then an in-person course next week, then a murder board (which is kinda like water board, but not quite) for my warfare pin sometime in April.


So, if I get my boys from NCIS to give you a hand I can see your car at Summit Point this Summer??
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Report this Post03-31-2022 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

On further thought... if I use one 8 cavity GT connector and one 10 cavity GT connector to replace the C203, that will give me 18 cavities to replace 14 cavities. I can use female terminals in those two connectors on the ECM harness. I can then add another 10 cavity GT connector for DBW & Cruise, but install the male terminal side on the ECM harness to differentiate it from the 10 cavity replacing the C203 connector.


16 cavity GT 150/280 mixed connectors exist too, these are common on ~04-06 LX9 V6's, and have twelve 150 series terminals, and four 280 terminals, they're also very easy to repin.

I'm providing a link to EFI connection because I know they have them without hunting, Ballenger motorsports is typically a better value though.

https://www.eficonnection.c...ale-sealed-connector

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

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Will
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Report this Post04-01-2022 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

So, if I get my boys from NCIS to give you a hand I can see your car at Summit Point this Summer??


Maybe they've already been there? Google "Amphibious Construction Battalion 2 relieved"


 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

16 cavity GT 150/280 mixed connectors exist too, these are common on ~04-06 LX9 V6's, and have twelve 150 series terminals, and four 280 terminals, they're also very easy to repin.

I'm providing a link to EFI connection because I know they have them without hunting, Ballenger motorsports is typically a better value though.

https://www.eficonnection.c...ale-sealed-connector



Looking under 16 way connectors, I don't see that on the Ballenger website, so they may not have a better value... Lol.
Even a little higher price is hardly a killer... I'm not buying 500 of them.

EDIT: I may need to look into using this power distribution center: https://www.eficonnection.c...hi-electrical-center

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-01-2022).]

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Report this Post04-01-2022 01:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Looking under 16 way connectors, I don't see that on the Ballenger website, so they may not have a better value... Lol.
Even a little higher price is hardly a killer... I'm not buying 500 of them.

EDIT: I may need to look into using this power distribution center: https://www.eficonnection.c...hi-electrical-center



Last time I bought from EFI connection, they didn't have connector kits, with the body, terminals, seals, and locks, Ballenger did, and for a much better price than EFI connection for the same parts. that said, when I was shopping for connectors, I needed a bunch of stuff, so the differences in price added up.

I may pick up one of those distribution centers too, that's pretty nice, and could clean up my harness alot.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

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Report this Post04-01-2022 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
EFI Connection started a second site where you can buy 'kits' (so not just pigtails) for pretty much everything.

https://lswiring.com

I found out about them by reaching out to them and asking if they sold packages (I wanted a full set of connectors for the LS4 and then some), and they were quick to reply with that site, and pointed out you can search by engine platform to get a list of all the connector types relevant to it. Which is pretty cool.
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Report this Post04-08-2022 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Last weekend I got a couple of small things done, as well as a bunch of lines on the wire list.

Added a T to the oil pressure elbow in order to make a fitting tree. The oil pressure transducer should stick out over top of the cradle crossmember, while the switch/sender should hide behind it. I'll have to turn the wiring tight so that it doesn't hang down below the bottom of the pan.



I clocked the alternator rear case in order to bring the stud close to the block and bring the rear mounting boss close to the existing hole in the bracket. The bracket doesn't fit because it was designed for a CS144 alternator and this is a CS130.



A longer shot down the side of the block. Yes, I'll have to do a lot more modification to the bracket in order to use the stud. I just drilled the hole quick and dirty in order to get everything into relative position.



Accessory drive with belt. I hope it clears the battery tray.



Closeup of the bracket... All I really did was move the tensioner and the idler... and the top alternator mount a little bit



And the junction block + mount bracket, before I drilled the mounting holes

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Report this Post04-10-2022 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Been looking for CS130 info in order to set up the wiring correctly. There's a lot of minimalist stuff for people who are scared of wires.

I finally found this:
https://alternatorparts.com/cs130-sbpage1.html

Page 2 actually has the terminal definitions... only place I've ever seen them.

Maybe I should hook up the P terminal to a frequency input on the ECM so I can log alternator RPM next to engine RPM and evaluate the performance of my accessory drive... :-D

Since I have the accessory drive figured out, I went ahead and installed the crank damper.
I have both a GM bolt and an ARP 251-2501 to choose from. The thread is M14x1.5 and ARP happened to have a bolt for a Ford Duratec that should work. The ARP bolt comes with a hardened washer, but the chamfer on the edge of the washer and the lead in chamfer around the bore in the crank damper are the same size, so the washer contacts the damper on the 45 degree face. That's probably not a great thing to do.

The GM bolt has a larger washer (slightly convex, so it may have some "belleville spring" effect. The ARP washer is loose, but the GM washer is captive. I'd have to chuck the GM bolt in a lathe and turn the threads down a little bit to remove the washer.
I need to check the GM torque procedure... ARP's instructions say 140 ftlbs, but the generic instructions have numbers from 184 to 205 ftlbs for a 14mm bolt. Since the clamp load of the damper on the oil pump drive sleeve is the ONLY interface that provides oil pump drive torque, I want to overkill it where I can.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-251-2501

I picked up crimp lugs for the 4ga starter cable and 3/8" stud on the junction block I showed above. I'll get the cable cut and stripped this week, then mark the orientation for the lug next weekend, then get it crimped next week. ALLTRBO works in electrical & harness and has the tooling. Stuff he built is orbiting the Moon, so he can do fine for The Mule.

I also did a bunch of reading on CS130 alternator terminals in order to get my alternator wiring right. I posted the link to the page above. V6 Fieros have older type SI alternators, while Iron Duck Fieros (at least in '87) have the then new CS alternator. The Fiero CS alts have the SILP terminal configuration, while the 2006 Corvette (and many other apps) have the SFLP terminal configuration. The 2006 Corvette *I think* has the CS130D alternator, since the original CS130 stopped in 1996.

P
Pulse?
Connected to the stator, and may be connected externally to a tachometer or other device

L
Lamp?
Alternator “Turn on” voltage. This must run through an indicator lamp or other resistance.
Fieros use HIRBTS, but could work with a HIR source as well. Fed through C500 B3

F / I
Field?
Internal? Indicator?
Connected internally to field positive, and may be used as a fault indicator.
Corvette ECM monitors regulator duty cycle via the F terminal
1987 Fiero 4 cylinder connects I terminal to HIR +12V via C500 B1

S
Sense?
May be connected externally to a voltage, such as battery voltage, to sense the voltage to be controlled.
May be connected directly to the output stud to simplify installation; Fiero installation does this
May be connected directly to fuse block in order to compensate for resistive losses in the alternator cable; Corvette installation does this

1987 Fiero (4 cylinder):
S Wired directly from output stud
I From Fan E fuse (HIR) via C500 B1
L From Gages fuse (HIRBTS) through charge indicator via C500 B3 to turn on alternator
P Not used

2006 Corvette
S From Horn/Alt fuse (Hot at all Times)
F To ECM to monitor Field duty cycle
L From ECM to turn on alternator
P Not used

The Mule:
S Wired directly from output stud? From engine junction block? From body junction block?
F To ECM to monitor Field duty cycle
L From Gages fuse (HIRBTS) via C500 B3; maintains indicator lamp functionality
P Not used

I'll pick a place from which I want to sense the voltage to which the alternator regulates. I'll connect the F terminal to the ECM as in the Corvette application. If I wire the L terminal like the Corvette, the ECM will turn the alternator on and off, which is cool, but I would lose charge indicator functionality. I can wire the L terminal to the Fiero charge indicator light in the dash, then the alternator will turn on in RBT&S and I'll still have a functioning charge indicator. I'm not sure if the Corvette ECM will have heartburn over this arrangement or not.

 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Nice. I've read really good things about their wires. I wound up ordering a set of Taylor 409 wires for two reasons, first being the guy doing all the important work on my car and races uses them and said 'get these', and two, Magnecor (at the time) was note offering 10+mm wires. I trust your commentary / data based approach to this stuff, so when you get your wires, if you don't mind doing an Ohms test on them and when it's all running, let us know if you have any issues, it would be appreciated!

The Taylors have an average amount of resistance, but I've read this also prevents/reduces the chance of EM noise causing issues with other electrical items. One thread I read ran into an issue with EM noise from their wires messing with their FAST system. The FAST guy told them to get an old school radio and tune it to a dead station before starting the care to help look for EM noise, and that's how they found the problem. Crazy.


2: 3.64k
4: 3.67k
6: 3.66k
8: 3.56k

1: 1.65k
3: 2.13k
5: 2.13k
7: 1.65k

Easy to see there are 3 different lengths.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 07-26-2022).]

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Report this Post04-11-2022 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you for taking the time to do that test and note it down!
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Report this Post04-12-2022 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Thank you for taking the time to do that test and note it down!


Now you have to measure yours!
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Report this Post04-12-2022 10:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL roger wilco!

The Taylors that Mike wanted me to get were sold out pretty much everywhere, so we wound up getting a set of 10mm wires from Scott Performance. It's apparently another very reputable maker out there. So we got the set with the boots on one end and the other end unfinished, so Mike can cut and crimp to where he's happy with it. When we get that done, I'll ask him to do the resistance checks!
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Report this Post04-12-2022 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

LOL roger wilco!

The Taylors that Mike wanted me to get were sold out pretty much everywhere, so we wound up getting a set of 10mm wires from Scott Performance. It's apparently another very reputable maker out there. So we got the set with the boots on one end and the other end unfinished, so Mike can cut and crimp to where he's happy with it. When we get that done, I'll ask him to do the resistance checks!


If you're building them in-house, you NEED to measure the resistance to verify that you did the assembly correctly & without breaking the wire core. That's an acceptance test for the builder, whereas is just a QA check for the buyer.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-12-2022).]

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Report this Post04-18-2022 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Helped a few friends with a few things on Saturday.
Also, my dad owns a '73 GMC Motorhome that was my Uncle's, until he passed away in 2017.
It doesn't run well and the distributor has been seized in the block. We pulled the intake manifold for access to the distributor to start working on removing it. It's an OldS(*) 455 w/ TH425 trans.

Sunday I was able to get some mechanical stuff done. I got the starter cable stripped and marked for crimping. I installed 5x0.8mm screws to secure the electrical junction block, which let me fit the starter cable. I drilled and tapped the other hole in the alternator rear bracket. I turned down the threads on the GM crank bolt, liberated the washer, drilled it out for the ARP bolt and installed that pair with ARP moly assembly lube... I just need to call ARP to discuss the torque spec.

If it sounds like the mechanical tasks are getting tiny and fussy, that's because the mechanical tasks are getting tiny and fussy. I'm coming up to the completion of all mechanical work other than simple assembly.

I have drill next weekend, but I'm targeting having the harness design done, wire list done and main harness materials order delivered by the 4/30-5/01 weekend. Of course, I'll probably have to spend that weekend in POR-15 prison instead of working on wiring. I can also put the cradle up on a heavy duty cart that I've been using as a workbench, assemble the entire powertrain there and still have it at a comfortable height for building the harness. I'll probably do that, as seeing the engine off the stand, assembled to the transmission and on the cradle ready to go into the car will be really motivating for building the harness.


(*)OldSlomobile
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Report this Post04-25-2022 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Helped a few friends with a few things on Saturday.
Also, my dad owns a '73 GMC Motorhome that was my Uncle's, until he passed away in 2017.
It doesn't run well and the distributor has been seized in the block. We pulled the intake manifold for access to the distributor to start working on removing it. It's an OldS(*) 455 w/ TH425 trans.


(*)OldSlomobile


In other news, the distributor came out without too much trouble once we built a custom pry-bar to deal with it.
Since the vehicle is a '73, it had a small cap distributor. Large cap HEIs came out in '74. My dad has such a distributor that will go back into the engine. What we do not have is the off-center air cleaner base that GM used with the HEI because the concentric air cleaner base used with the small cap distributor interferes with the large cap HEI.

I want to do a Duramax/Allison in the thing, but that "requires" buying a $3000 LF72 transfer case/U-drive gearbox and figuring out what front diff I can use.

Of course I haven't gotten my wire list done yet and tonight and tomorrow night I'm going to be helping friends with homeowner(*) stuffs, so I won't get the harness materials delivered by the weekend. I'm going to be in POR-15 prison this weekend anyway.

I'm probably going to order the Delphi electrical center, but I need to make sure I can order all the relevant parts shown in the catalog. Since the drawing is not easy to find, I'll probably need to have that in hand to get the terminal names before I can complete the wire list.

(*) Ho-meow-ner
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Report this Post04-27-2022 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just ordered a Delphi/Aptiv 12110594 modular electrical center. It's small and holds 4 micro-relays and 6 mini-fuses. I ordered the component, terminal lock, spring latches and top cover. I also ordered the base, but that was backordered. I ordered from Mouser since CustomConnectorKits does not list it, and Mouser showed up on DuckDuckGo.

Once I have those parts in hand, I'll evaluate what terminals I'll need to order. There's a combination of 280, 480 and 630 terminals required, and I need to figure out how I'll be populating it.

With the modular electrical center family, I can upgrade from a 1-way base to a 3- or 4-way base and add modules, should I discover the need to upgrade. The catalog does not show a 2 way base, which is interesting.
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Report this Post04-28-2022 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Catching up on photos:

Junction block:



Starter cable crimped:



Whole starter cable:



Check out this really awesome throttle adapter that somebody made!





The tensioner mounting bolt is snugly nested into a casting feature on the head:



Prototype alternator rear mount:



I have not been able to test it with belt tension yet, but it's probably ok. I'll trim it down a good bit, as well as open up the OE bracket around the power stud.

Crank pulley in place with ARP bolt & GM washer:

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Report this Post04-28-2022 11:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any benefits to your chosen relay/fuse holding solution over the Eaton Bussman fuse/relay blocks that I had recommended earlier? I am trying to decide what to go with myself, or whether I should trust the factory wiring using the factory fuse block lmao.
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Report this Post04-28-2022 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

Any benefits to your chosen relay/fuse holding solution over the Eaton Bussman fuse/relay blocks that I had recommended earlier? I am trying to decide what to go with myself, or whether I should trust the factory wiring using the factory fuse block lmao.


When I was running the 0411 based Shelby engine management, I distributed the loads across the Fiero electrical system and never had any electrical problems with it. The stock Fiero system is fine as long as you're intelligent about where the additional loads go.

Eaton product like these? https://www.waytekwire.com/...S-002-0-ssVEC-Power/

That looks similar in concept to the GEP Power Distribution Module that the dude at www.customconnectorkits.com recommended to me. The modular center I ordered is VERY compact and streamlined... I also like that it has specific locations for relays rather than a large array of terminals into which you can plug relays.

I'll post pics when I get it... which could be as soon as tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-28-2022).]

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Report this Post04-28-2022 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was specifically looking at this one: https://www.waytekwire.com/...LKKbsvhoCWIIQAvD_BwE

Very well priced, sealed, but maybe larger than your solution, though very modular.

I only really need relays for the fan, fuel pump, and ecu power. Looks like the relays should be able to support powering a fan, might run two relays if I run two fans. Input limit of 80 amps *should* be able to power everything I need.

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 04-28-2022).]

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Report this Post04-28-2022 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The capacity of the unit I ordered is 4 micro-relays and 6 mini-fuses, which is one more than I need in each kind, so it just seemed perfect.

The '06 Corvette system needs a powertrain relay, fuel pump relay and A/C comp relay. The Fiero has the fan relay and A/C power relay in the front compartment.

If you have two fan motors, study how GM uses 3 relays to set those fans up in series for low speed and in parallel for high speed.

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Report this Post04-28-2022 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah neat, maybe I can maintain the stock relay for the fan. I was going to have the microsquirt control the fan and I did my research a while ago but thought I might have an issue controlling the stock relay with the microsquirt. I don’t really want to run two fans, but if I need the cooling capacity I was preparing for it. I imagine running them in parallel and in series vs running just a single one at full power or both at full power helps extend the life of the fans due to having two fans doing half the work the majority of the time.
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Report this Post05-03-2022 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Modular Electrical Center module:



Starter cable installed:



Split convoluted tubing:



The way the junction block works with the manifold in place:



The lavender wire is the crank wire. I'll put a single pin Metri-pack 630 connector in the middle of it, and terminate the other end in the C500 connector once the powertrain is in the vehicle.
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Report this Post05-03-2022 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will

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Ordered the terminals for the electrical center today. Fussing through that list was annoying. The relays take Metri-Pack 480 control pins for 18-20ga wire and Metri-Pack 630 pins for the switched circuit. The electrical center page specifically called out 480 *RELAY* terminals, which are slightly different than the standard 480 female terminals. The same page did not specifically call out 630 standard vs relay terminals, so I ordered both. Four of each set are for 16ga wire for the A/C Comp and Fuel Pump relays. However, the PowerTrain relay gets a single 10ga input and dual 12ga outputs, so I had to order ONE of each of those terminals.

The fuse area uses two rows of Metri-Pack 280 "bus bar" terminals for the input side of the fuses and standard 280 female terminals on the output side. The bus bar terminals are only available from Mouser in a string of 20, so I had to get that when I need two strings of 3 each, for 12ga wire, to work with the dual 12ga wires coming off the PowerTrain relay.

Then I need five 280 female terminals for the five fuses.

So, yeah, fussy. Now that I have that figured out, I should be able to finish the wire list and get the main shipment of harness parts ordered.
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Report this Post05-04-2022 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice, looking good, looking forward to seeing how block looks all populated. Where are you planning to put it?
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Report this Post05-05-2022 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was thinking I'd hang it on the strut tower by the battery. It's not technially "sealed", but it should be ok there as long as I mount it correctly. GM uses unsealed electrical centers in the engine bay in other applications.
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Report this Post05-09-2022 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got a large diameter tensioner pulley selected over the weekend. I didn't measure, but it looks like it's 3.25" or so. That's above my arbitrary target of 3" for idler and tensioner pulleys to keep their speeds down. It just barely fits with the current belt.

Since my accessory drive looks basically final, I tore it down so I could POR-15 the bracket along with my intermediate axle bracket, pieces of my house, parts of the engine cradle where the 20 year old powder coating is peeling and some touch up spots on The Mule's tub that I'd missed previously.

I have Navy duty the next two weekends. I'm thinking that over Memorial Day weekend, I'll get the engine and transmission assembled and on the cradle. I'll put the powertrain up on a heavy duty cart I've been using as a workbench so that it's at a good height for working on wiring. I also need to snag updated glamo(u)r photos that actually include the Cometic head gasket envelope.

I also need to trim the alternator rear adapter and mod the alternator rear bracket to open up space around the output stud.
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Report this Post05-25-2022 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Backordered terminals from Mouser arrived yesterday.
I have been slammed with other stuff and have not been able to finish the updated wire list yet.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-25-2022).]

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