i want but need to know some stats, first i would be using this tooo for the wow factor.........
so if you/they need a guiena pig i am your man they would be installed professionally (OleJoeDad, if hes game) and tested till you/they are satisified. we could work out a deal....for the install and word of mouth advertising will be a breeze. i usually attend 3-5 events a year. but with a solid car i would do way more.....most Fiero related shows in the 3-4 states around MI and maybe even Canada.....the passport is a killer tho.
i dont know...just thinking aloud. i love the dual intake look and in a Mera it would look the part as well..........
[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 03-18-2012).]
This will be a complete kit that will include everything to turn your front amber housings into clear housings with white LED lights and blinking amber LEDs.
Of course there will be more pictures and an install video soon.
i want but need to know some stats, first i would be using this tooo for the wow factor.........
so if you/they need a guiena pig i am your man they would be installed professionally (OleJoeDad, if hes game) and tested till you/they are satisified. we could work out a deal....for the install and word of mouth advertising will be a breeze. i usually attend 3-5 events a year. but with a solid car i would do way more.....most Fiero related shows in the 3-4 states around MI and maybe even Canada.....the passport is a killer tho.
i dont know...just thinking aloud. i love the dual intake look and in a Mera it would look the part as well..........
Thank you for your interest, but at this time the intake is not being produced, and if it were we are not looking for testers because we already have solid testing numbers: +24 TQ / +15 HP at the wheels by just bolting it on and going!
Yes, this kit is almost ready for production, before it is offered for sale we wanted to be able to test it for a while to ensure it works well over time. It will be posted here and on the Top Line Group Automotive Facebook page as soon as they are for sale.
Thank you for your interest, but at this time the intake is not being produced, and if it were we are not looking for testers because we already have solid testing numbers: +24 TQ / +15 HP at the wheels by just bolting it on and going!
You're leaving me a bit confused here. It seems like you just released the DTB intake and now you ceased production already??!! What was the "production run", the 3 units pictured on the bench? Is this IT? Do you plan to produce more? When? I can't find the intake on your website anymore, so I can't tell if it's forever gone or just temporarily out of production... What's going on?
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-27-2012).]
You're leaving me a bit confused here. It seems like you just released the DTB intake and now you ceased production already??!! What was the "production run", the 3 units pictured on the bench? Is this IT? Do you plan to produce more? When? I can't find the intake on your website anymore, so I can't tell if it's forever gone or just temporarily out of production... What's going on?
Hi Randy thanks for the questions, I think I can answer them for you.
We have produced and sold 6 of these intakes total. 5 of them were sold to customers all over the country and the first 1 remains on our in-house Fiero. Immediately after the last batch of 3 that were made (by Street Solutions) they moved into a bigger and better shop. This move took a couple of weeks to complete and they've been getting settled and caught up on other projects since then.
The other thing that is delaying production is the cost of building each manifold. Each intake manifold took approximately 25-30 man hours of custom fabrication labor ($60/hr X 30 = $1,800) PLUS the cost of materials, which was about $350. So the intake manifold was costing about $2,150 to produce and being sold for roughly $1,300. The $1,300 price tag included EVERYTHING from the new manifold itself, the dual intake pipe kit with K&N filters, the CSI delete, EGR Delete, and Fuel PSI gauge.
Needless to say it wasn't going to be produced for long if the shop took a $800 loss on each one that was built. Even if labor was quoted at $25 per hour, it still wasn't worth it!
We are currently looking at other possibilities to do batch production of 6-8 units at a time, and figuring out a more cost-effective method to manufacture some of the parts out of "house" instead of doing it all by hand one at a time. I want to get the entire lower part of the manifold (that we modify and fabricate portions of) totally cast so we have a good starting place to build off of.
So in short, the only way these will ever be produced again is: A) We sell the intake manifold SYSTEM for $2,500 or B) We discover a more cost-effective method of production to keep the cost down
We would prefer to do method "B" and make 6 of them at a time, but in order to do that the different flanges and plates need to be CNC machined and the lower portion needs to be cast.
Also, I'd like to point out that one of the problems we created by offering this manifold was due to trying to be competitive in the market of Intake Manifolds. West Coast Customs sells a slightly modified upper manifold for over $600, and the Trueleo manifold sells for about $650. We were worried that if our price was much different than those two options that it would be ignored.
However we soon realized that what our customers were getting with the DTB intake manifold from Street Solutions was 5x the manifold you could buy from anyone else. The level of machine work and the sheer amount of fabrication that goes into building this intake is world's beyond other available options.
I was interested in how this intake would perform on a 3.4, but wanted to hear from customers that already had one on installed on their cars.
Maybe some of the folks that have purchased them will chime in. I would recommend following this build thread and when Kolja finally drives it I'm sure he'll give a review: //www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/087194-6.html
I have heard back from two of the customers who purchased the Street Solutions DTB intake manifold though and they were "blown away" with the increase in power. They suggested it was like the "bolted on" an engine swap. It was a different car to drive.
I sure will give my opinion on it here once I drive my car again (tomorrow!). However, I have done a number of power increasing mods on the engine (252H cam, 1.6 roller rockers, custom engine tune) at the same time as the DTB so it will be hard to say what effect the DTB has by itself.
Also, I'd like to point out that one of the problems we created by offering this manifold was due to trying to be competitive in the market of Intake Manifolds. West Coast Customs sells a slightly modified upper manifold for over $600, and the Trueleo manifold sells for about $650. We were worried that if our price was much different than those two options that it would be ignored.
However we soon realized that what our customers were getting with the DTB intake manifold from Street Solutions was 5x the manifold you could buy from anyone else. The level of machine work and the sheer amount of fabrication that goes into building this intake is world's beyond other available options.
I would not pay more for this intake than a complete new 3.4 crate engine runs. At $600 this already prices many people out of the market, or just makes them think more about a 3800 swap. As I recall the "Dawg" modified intake was in the $500 range. You could sell many more of these intakes if you could keep the pricing competitive.
I would not pay more for this intake than a complete new 3.4 crate engine runs. At $600 this already prices many people out of the market, or just makes them think more about a 3800 swap. As I recall the "Dawg" modified intake was in the $500 range. You could sell many more of these intakes if you could keep the pricing competitive.
This is absolutely true, and one of the reasons it is not currently for sale. It would be kind of silly, IMHO, to offer it today at $2,500... I'd rather offer it with a solid price that is competitive. And like I stated, what we offer with the DTB intake is miles above and beyond what you would ever receive from the Dawg mod, the WCF intake, or the Trueleo intake. There is so much more that goes into this product, and what we actually send you (including two modified/rebuilt throttle bodies) that there is no way we could ever sell it for as cheap as others that are currently available. It will always be more expensive than other options but we're trying to figure out how to lower the cost and at the same time make it worth our while to produce.
Hi Randy thanks for the questions, I think I can answer them for you.
We have produced and sold 6 of these intakes total. 5 of them were sold to customers all over the country and the first 1 remains on our in-house Fiero. Immediately after the last batch of 3 that were made (by Street Solutions) they moved into a bigger and better shop. This move took a couple of weeks to complete and they've been getting settled and caught up on other projects since then.
The other thing that is delaying production is the cost of building each manifold. Each intake manifold took approximately 25-30 man hours of custom fabrication labor ($60/hr X 30 = $1,800) PLUS the cost of materials, which was about $350. So the intake manifold was costing about $2,150 to produce and being sold for roughly $1,300. The $1,300 price tag included EVERYTHING from the new manifold itself, the dual intake pipe kit with K&N filters, the CSI delete, EGR Delete, and Fuel PSI gauge.
Needless to say it wasn't going to be produced for long if the shop took a $800 loss on each one that was built. Even if labor was quoted at $25 per hour, it still wasn't worth it!
We are currently looking at other possibilities to do batch production of 6-8 units at a time, and figuring out a more cost-effective method to manufacture some of the parts out of "house" instead of doing it all by hand one at a time. I want to get the entire lower part of the manifold (that we modify and fabricate portions of) totally cast so we have a good starting place to build off of.
So in short, the only way these will ever be produced again is: A) We sell the intake manifold SYSTEM for $2,500 or B) We discover a more cost-effective method of production to keep the cost down
We would prefer to do method "B" and make 6 of them at a time, but in order to do that the different flanges and plates need to be CNC machined and the lower portion needs to be cast.
Thanks for the explanation. I *was* going to place my order for this after I heard an evaluation from Yellowstone and after I got some other obligations taken care of. To say that I'm disappointed is an understatement.
I have a lot of suggestions to help you with production of this product if you're interested. The intake WILL require design changes to get the costs out of it, but I can help you with that as I think you know. Additionally, you will NOT have to manufacture the lower intake, or possibly even bother with it.
Thanks for the explanation. I *was* going to place my order for this after I heard an evaluation from Yellowstone and after I got some other obligations taken care of. To say that I'm disappointed is an understatement.
I have a lot of suggestions to help you with production of this product if you're interested. The intake WILL require design changes to get the costs out of it, but I can help you with that as I think you know. Additionally, you will NOT have to manufacture the lower intake, or possibly even bother with it.
If you're interested let me know.
I was also waiting to hear what yellowstone thought of the intake as well. My car is a Mera with a 3.4 PR swap. I saw one of the intakes you had powdercoated in red. This would give the 3.4 a look similar to the DTB intake set up on some Ferrari engines. My only hope was that the welds on the intake bodies could be ground smooth for a more factory look. Are the throttle bodies you supply bored out? I currently have a Darrell Morse bored out TB, and bore matched stock intake on my engine. The 3.4's tend to run a bit rich at higer RPM due to the intake restriction. Would this intake remedy that problem? I am still interested if it can be produced and sold affordably.
[This message has been edited by Rick 88 (edited 03-30-2012).]
I think the composite/plastic idea could have promise, how much would it cost to mold one as opposed to actually building one? I would think not as much, and you wouldn't have as much heat transfer to boot.
What kinds of pressures are you talking about on the intake? (vac/boost) And would standard compsite plastics handle the intake pressures as well as the, potentially extreme, temperature fluxuations.
Could you mold it out of plastic? Would that be cheaper? (Just thinking new car intakes are plastic.) Offer a version without the throttle bodies?
Unfortunately we cannot offer the intake manifold without throttle bodies because they each need to be modified to work in this application. Both the throttle shafts and the sensor allowances need to be changed dramatically. With this system it can only work with our modified TB's.
I was also waiting to hear what yellowstone thought of the intake as well. My car is a Mera with a 3.4 PR swap. I saw one of the intakes you had powdercoated in red. This would give the 3.4 a look similar to the DTB intake set up on some Ferrari engines. My only hope was that the welds on the intake bodies could be ground smooth for a more factory look. Are the throttle bodies you supply bored out? I currently have a Darrell Morse bored out TB, and bore matched stock intake on my engine. The 3.4's tend to run a bit rich at higer RPM due to the intake restriction. Would this intake remedy that problem? I am still interested if it can be produced and sold affordably.
The welds on the intake could be ground smooth, we would just need to know ahead of time which style you would like.
The throttle bodies are NOT bored out, they are stock bore. After doing some calculations it was decided that boring out the throttle bodies would be a waste of precious time and the consumer's dollars. The fact that we are using two throttle bodies allows for plenty of air flow and no need for boring anything.
With our manifold and some tuning, I believe you can achieve the full potential of your naturally aspirated 3.4L PR engine.
The welds on the intake could be ground smooth, we would just need to know ahead of time which style you would like.
The throttle bodies are NOT bored out, they are stock bore. After doing some calculations it was decided that boring out the throttle bodies would be a waste of precious time and the consumer's dollars. The fact that we are using two throttle bodies allows for plenty of air flow and no need for boring anything.
With our manifold and some tuning, I believe you can achieve the full potential of your naturally aspirated 3.4L PR engine.
I would be very interested in this when the intakes go back into production. If other modifications are being developed please keep me posted. Can a stock 88 ECM be tuned to work with this intake set up?
I would be very interested in this when the intakes go back into production. If other modifications are being developed please keep me posted. Can a stock 88 ECM be tuned to work with this intake set up?
Rick, one of the best ways to be kept up to date is to either check in with this thread, or find us on facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/TopLineGroup
As far as tuning goes, honestly there is no tuning required, you could simply bolt it on and go but for maximum performance I'd contact Ryan Gick at Sinister Performance (gmtuners.com) for advice. Thanks!
So, what do I think about the DTB? First off, the car received a different cam and 1.6 roller rockers at the same time so I cannot say what part of the improvements are due to the intake.
Seat-of-the-pants dyno says that the car definitely is quicker. It revs up faster and feels stronger at high RPM's. When going WOT at 60 mph in 4th gear the engine pulls when it didn't before.
And there's the important aspect of it just being way cool! :-)
quote
Originally posted by Oslo:
As far as tuning goes, honestly there is no tuning required, you could simply bolt it on and go but for maximum performance I'd contact Ryan Gick at Sinister Performance (gmtuners.com) for advice. Thanks!
I had Ryan program a custom chip for me but it's not final yet.
How are the Fiero LED headlights $420 more than the regular LED 7x6 headlights? They're both 6054 lamps, so I see no reason to charge double the price for the same thing, unless it's for one headlight versus two.
The description says "headlight" for one and "headlights" for the other so I guess the difference is that one is a single unit and the other is a pair.
quote
Originally posted by Bstrickler934:
How are the Fiero LED headlights $420 more than the regular LED 7x6 headlights? They're both 6054 lamps, so I see no reason to charge double the price for the same thing, unless it's for one headlight versus two.
The description says "headlight" for one and "headlights" for the other so I guess the difference is that one is a single unit and the other is a pair.
That would make sense, but it could be a typo, too.
I've been up for almost 24 hours now, so I probably overlooked that.
So, what do I think about the DTB? First off, the car received a different cam and 1.6 roller rockers at the same time so I cannot say what part of the improvements are due to the intake.
Seat-of-the-pants dyno says that the car definitely is quicker. It revs up faster and feels stronger at high RPM's. When going WOT at 60 mph in 4th gear the engine pulls when it didn't before.
And there's the important aspect of it just being way cool! :-)
I had Ryan program a custom chip for me but it's not final yet.
How is the throttle response? Any stumbles on quick stabs of the gas?. I also have Comp Cams 1.6 ratio roller rockers on my 3.4. Does the engine seem to keep pulling strong above 5000 RPM? The 3.4 tends to lose steam above this rpm with the stock Fiero intake?
Originally posted by Bstrickler934: That would make sense, but it could be a typo, too. I've been up for almost 24 hours now, so I probably overlooked that.
One page shows two headlights so you can upgrade your Fiero (at a discount). The other page shows the headlight housing sold individually for universal applications.
Just my two cents about DTB intake, how about building something that can be bolted directly to the middle intake instead of welding. You would run out of middle intakes anyway, if you need one for each new intake.
Obvious trouble is that bolts should go trought the intake, but how about just a couple of bolts and some hose clamps around manifolds? Upper manifolds could be built from half-round aluminium profile? (like this http://www.rossmachineracing.com/halfround.html)
And there is no reason to build any air cleaner pipes, since the most reasonable thing to do with DTB is add two closed air filters like K&N Apollo or Simota carbon charger etc. http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.html) and take an advantage of Helmholtz Resonance when there is only 3 cylinders behing both throttle bodies. That's what I would do.
[This message has been edited by Timantt1 (edited 04-13-2012).]
How is the throttle response? Any stumbles on quick stabs of the gas?. I also have Comp Cams 1.6 ratio roller rockers on my 3.4. Does the engine seem to keep pulling strong above 5000 RPM? The 3.4 tends to lose steam above this rpm with the stock Fiero intake?
Throttle response with the DTB intake on my setup is great, better than before. Engine pulls strong and sounds great. Some more valve train noise through the intake when cold, though.
I was interested in how this intake would perform on a 3.4, but wanted to hear from customers that already had one on installed on their cars.
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