quote Originally posted by Firefox: No, it was a picture of Jordan (little Fiero5) kneeling on the floor with his new console (still wrapped up in the packaging), facing the camera, and there is a television set in the backgound. The original picture showed something on the tv screen ( I don't remember what), but a photoshopped version was posted that had a scene from a porno movie scene on the tv screen. That's it......there were no other changes in the picture, and it does not depict Jordan watching the tv set. I do have the picture tucked away........ Mark

The picture was still very very out of place, Gee if I had a kid that was photo shopped watching a **** movie.... I wouldn't like it one bit, The word is family forum, I have little cousins that enjoy looking at the pics and sigs of fieros on this board...... Sadly I have to check the boards out to make sure there are no out of place tastless pics or sigs of kermit humping a stuff animal or any other tasteless art.

I do not care what the heck the pic consisted of..... The pic was not fit for any kid to see. Specially jordon himself.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 10-27-2004).]

You go right ahead and keep posting that. That's how I feel. You don't like it? Too bad.

What's the matter, Steve? You going to cry now? No one wants to play with you? Awwww........

Who's keeping this flame was going? I think that's quite obvious.....

Have a nice night.

Mark

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: I agree as well, but at what point does it become obvious that doing nothing, saying nothing and ignoring them only allows them to overun and ruin it even more? And I wouldn't say my discussing it here with others is bickering. If thats the case though, then your bickering too Lately it seems that if we say nothing they get even more abusive, and if they say something aganist us and we ignore them and just don't reply back many may then think what they said might be true. But on the other hand it seems that if we do speak up at some point and try and defend ourselves then we are seen by some as helping to keep it all going. What did someone say earlier? Damned if you do, damned if you don't? Jen, no insult here at all but I have to say again that I was suprised when I saw that you, a pretty respected member on this forum and a school teacher no less, thought Punishers sig was hilarious. Is it possible that by your saying that to them, you as a highly regarded member with mostly green are in a way condoning what they and others are posting, even though you may not think or see it that way? And is that also worthy of a plus if you did. If you had one of your students (or another staff member no less) walk over and see that sig on your screen while you were surfing on general chat, what site do you think that student/staff might feel you were on? I work at a school as well, and as a staff member I want to be able to surf PFF, at least the general chat and other "upper" sections, without worrying that someone might see something sick and/or vulgar like that sig or any of the other stupid images and things they like to post. Do you see what I mean at all?

Well the F word was blanked out and that wasn't what I was commenting on. It was the political humor in the sig and being that I teach government. I don't surf PFF from my school network or with students in the room but if I did it would haven't been a problem it would be the same as typing "f**k" or something. And to be honest I didn't even see the F word the first time around. And just because I commented on the sig doesn't mean I condone his behaviour (though fortunately I have missed the worst of it) nor does it mean I feel he deserves a positive rating to remain on this forum.

However these constant essays on every topic are not appealing either. Speak your peace and move on - everyone knows how you feel about Pun and restating it over and over isn't necessary. I agree that what he did was horrible (though I never saw it) but we all know that so no need to keep bringing it up - you or anyone else. I'm not saying that to be rude but I know it bothers people. And it's not just you - it's many people on here. I just happen to use this as an example, nothing personally towards you.

And as far as arguing, I'd rather call it "constructive discussion" but constantly bringing up the same point isn't constructive. The sig is a great example - we've already talked about it once - no need to bring it again.

[This message has been edited by Fierochic88 (edited 10-27-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Somehow that doesn't surprise me one bit It sickens me to think about what someone that would even want to keep something sick like that may do with it someday

Wow.....you need to take another pill, there, Steve.

So much for agreeing that the pic was out of place.

Have a nice night

quote Originally posted by Fierochic88: However these constant essays on every topic are not appealing either. I'm not saying that to be rude but I know it bothers people. And it's not just you - it's many people on here. I just happen to use this as an example, nothing personally towards you.

Fair enough. I agree that at times many of us seem to write a lot when things like this come up, but this thread is after all about a subject that these essays are relevent in.
Hopefully we can all move on from all of this very soon and get back to what this forum is supposed to be all about

quote Originally posted by Lex: I am not sure anyone is "protecting" him; I just don't think some people were enraged by it.

Of course they are protecting him! This forum belongs to Cliff, he wants it to be a self policing family Fiero forum. I don't believe he wants it to be a red troll porno forum. He has entrusted everyone with the power to do what is right, and one vote to do it with. By giving someone of this level of the human race a positive, they are trying to protect him from what is right. He chose to break the rules, not by accident, but with malicous intent. If people were not enraged by it, I do guess it does show the level of human society they are also from, very sad.

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Thats it Mark, keep it up. Between your supporting a child being photoshopped into **** comment above and this beauty quoted below your just a pillar of the forum community now aren't you?

Where does it imply that I supported that picture? I clarified it for the members that were talking about it. Is your stupidity natural or are you on medication?

As for my other post that you quoted, what part of that didn't you understand? Do you want me to send you a signed, framed copy for your janitorial office at school?

You are one of the reasons for this thread. Please rate him accordingly.

Shut up, already. How many more people have to tell you?

I'm done. I'm not going to support Steve's temper tantrum, so do it without me.

Mark

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 10-27-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Firefox: Where does it imply that I supported that picture? I clarified it for the members that were talking about it. Is you stupidity natural or are you on medication?

Thats it, change your tune a little now and throw in an insult all in the same breath.
Well, you have a thumbs down in your first comment implying that we are all wrong about getting upset about it and then you try to argue that it's not kiddie ****, just ****. It's not a bullet that kills, it's just a bullet, right? Its a kid in a picture with ****, but it's not kiddie ****. Ok, whatever. Thanks for clarifying it for us.

quote As for my other post that you quoted, what part of that didn't you understand? Do you want me to send you a signed, framed copy for your janitorial office at school?

I unserstand exactly and I am hoping many others will soon as well. And no thanks, I will pass on the signed copy. I just want to make sure that no one forgets how that thread was going until you came trolling in it and puked your insults all over it.

quote You are one of the reasons for this thread.

I think we are all reasons for this thread, though some of us are trying to make it a better place and some "others" seem to just want to throw insults in threads anytime they feel like it and then say it's their 'opinion" or like you claim after that someone else started it first, etc.

quote Shut up, already. How many more people have to tell you?

Ok, but first look at my posts and then look at yours, like the ones quoted. I don't go into threads and do what you and others do with crap like that. Now I like a others are speaking up and taking a stand agaisnt this kind of stuff because we are really sick and tired of it.

quote I'm done. I'm not going to support Steve's temper tantrum, so do it without me. Mark

Yeah thats it, you want my kids pride and joy Fiero to burn to the ground and insult me on how to dress him etc, and then say I am having a temper tantrum LOL Your a real piece of work Mark.
If my standing up for having a pic of my kid (or anyones kid for that matter) put in **** gets me some negs then thats pretty sad, but as a loving father I will stand up against how utterly wrong that is any day of the week 24/7 if I have to.
If you or anyone else wants to bash me or rate me negatively for that then go right ahead.

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 10-27-2004).]

Will Steve get the last word he so desparately seeks? Stay tuned and find out.

Yes, he does.....

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: If you or anyone else wants to bash me or rate me negatively for that then go right ahead.

I would just like to add that here is yet another good example of where Mark stands on not having crap dumped all over our forum, as posted not long ago in the now trashed thread about my son and his car getting in the mag:

quote Originally posted by Firefox: Another Fiero5 thread in the trash where he once again has his ass handed to him.......

Nice. Is that being a troll, a stalker or just your right to post an insulting comment or all three? Yeah, now tell us again how your part of the solution and not part of the problem

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 10-27-2004).]

I Would just like to add again for my sake...

Firefox for President.
Gridlock for Vice President
donk316 for secretary of offense...

------------------

Still at it, Steve? That's sad. But, the truth still stands.....

Way to go. By the way, you didn't answer the question that was posed to you in that other thread.

Once again, Steve has the last word.....

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: If you or anyone else wants to bash me or rate me negatively for that then go right ahead.

Come on Mark, if your going to quote me at least get it right:

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: If my standing up for having a pic of my kid (or anyones kid for that matter) put in **** gets me some negs then thats pretty sad, but as a loving father I will stand up against how utterly wrong that is any day of the week 24/7 if I have to. If you or anyone else wants to bash me or rate me negatively for that then go right ahead.

but you always do that kind of misleading thing don't you?

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Well I was speaking to you so yeah, I guess I was BTW: You are definetly in the wrong thread Mark. You should be in this one: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20041015-1-041649-2.html 10 posts down proves without a shadow of a doubt who can be one of the worst trouble makers around here now doesn't it?

Sorry, I had to post this. I went through it again and it really does prove a point. Unfortunately for Steve, he looks like an ass.

This is from Steve's post in Cliff's thread in GFC about what changes we'd like to see. It certainly does prove who is the troublemaker, doesn't it?

You guys all need to read this thread, and the others in it. It brings out Steve's true qualities, and just shows that sooooo many members are sick of Fiero5. There are a LOT of responses in there telling Fiero5 he's a problem, including Cliff.

So....after reading, how does that make me the troublemaker?

Hey, Steve.....you asked.

OWNED again.....

Mark

Ooops.....I almost forgot. Steve needs to get the last word in again.....

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: If you or anyone else wants to bash me or rate me negatively for that then go right ahead.

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 10-27-2004).]

quote Originally posted on 10-27-2004 at 09:06 PM by Firefox: I'm done. Mark

Thank you.

The name Punisher , or shortform "Pun" Appears 45 Times in this thread....

JM

[This message has been edited by The Punisher (edited 10-28-2004).]

troll city.

quote Originally posted by Saber49: I Would just like to add again for my sake... Firefox for President. Gridlock for Vice President donk316 for secretary of offense...

Sweet...

------------------
1984 Indy Fiero 3.4L 4spd
www.cardomain.com/id/donk_316

Member of the Redbar Brigade

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Its a kid in a picture with ****, but it's not kiddie ****. Ok, whatever. Thanks for clarifying it for us.

Thats actually not kiddie **** at all, technically.. Bad taste as has been so repetedly mentioned? Possibly... Illegal? Almost guaranteed not.. And if anyone steps up and says it's 'sueable', I bet there's a thread about how you are saying the world is too sue happy now.. I don't even know you, nor have I ever really talked to you, but you are not the victim on this board at all. You perpetrate in most threads, then claim you are the victim. You insult numerous times in this thread. Smileys in every sentence do not make everything all right. Trust me, I know..

I'm afraid you guys are mistaken... I don't know what picture Punisher photoshopped to include the kid into a scene apparently watching a pornographic movie, but at least for me, that is not what I keep talking about... Here is a refresher...

Originally posted by The Punisher:
I swear I saw a pic of Jordan in an adult magazine posted here a while back..Hmmmm..
Call MAtlock!!!

Poor taste? Definitely. Plain out stupid and for no purpose but to cause problem? Definitely.
A Joke? Maybe. A public admission of looking at child pornography? Yep.

He followed up this stupid prank by asking "Will Jordan be signing with his rela name? Or will he be signing with his P*rn name?"
Again insinuating that this child is somehow involved in pornography. Not a photoshopped picture of a boy in front of a TV with an adult movie... But continued insinuation that this child is involved in the kiddie pornography.

How does he follow this up? Surely, he has gone far enough? No, not him... Now he says he wants the boy writing on his genetalia... "I want you and Jordan to Autograph my Ballz..use permanent marker as they tend to get quite sweaty."

So you see, guys. This perv that you keep defending is not funny. It is not just poor taste. It is stupid. And I guarantee that it could be found criminal. Do I think someone should be sued? No... Do I think someone should be kicked off this forum yet again... You better believe I do. This has nothing to do with the picture you guys keep talking about. It goes much farther than that and is totally DIRECT.

quote Originally posted by Electrathon: If people were not enraged by it, I do guess it does show the level of human society they are also from, very sad.

Ok, for a moment let's say Shuan is a smexual predator. Let's go with the theory he likes kiddie pr0n.

WE HAVE A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN SHUAN TO POLICE HERE.

Not once has ANY of you said any thing about Jordans welfare.

We have a atleast one sexual predator on the board(probably more as I am thinking they usually don't come out and admitt it) and Fiero5's address, name, and pics of his kids ARE STILL all over this board and other internet sites. For the review of Shuan and any other perverts? Yes. Will Fiero5 continue to post such information when he knows that such people exist on the internet in general? Probably.

HOW DID THE PICS GET INTO SHUANS HANDS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Even if you ban Shuan, who knows what other creeps are lurking around the 'net and this forum, looking for a target.

Cliff, since this is a self policing forum and the people agree, we may have a AT LEAST ONE kiddie molester here, it is prudent to close any threads with information about members children. What happened with Jordan could be much worse next time.....

Of course this might not be about Jordan, sexual predators, or pervs, at all.

[This message has been edited by Lex (edited 10-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Songman: I'm afraid you guys are mistaken... I don't know what picture Punisher photoshopped to include the kid into a scene apparently watching a pornographic movie, but at least for me, that is not what I keep talking about... Here is a refresher... Originally posted by The Punisher: I swear I saw a pic of Jordan in an adult magazine posted here a while back..Hmmmm.. Call MAtlock!!! Poor taste? Definitely. Plain out stupid and for no purpose but to cause problem? Definitely. A Joke? Maybe. A public admission of looking at child pornography? Yep. He followed up this stupid prank by asking "Will Jordan be signing with his rela name? Or will he be signing with his P*rn name?" Again insinuating that this child is somehow involved in pornography. Not a photoshopped picture of a boy in front of a TV with an adult movie... But continued insinuation that this child is involved in the kiddie pornography. How does he follow this up? Surely, he has gone far enough? No, not him... Now he says he wants the boy writing on his genetalia... "I want you and Jordan to Autograph my Ballz..use permanent marker as they tend to get quite sweaty." So you see, guys. This perv that you keep defending is not funny. It is not just poor taste. It is stupid. And I guarantee that it could be found criminal. Do I think someone should be sued? No... Do I think someone should be kicked off this forum yet again... You better believe I do. This has nothing to do with the picture you guys keep talking about. It goes much farther than that and is totally DIRECT.

Well said Songman. Thank You.

Geez guys, let it go. Cliff's system will get rid of them eventually.

I've been on other forums that are OVER policed, and it's no fun. On some the admins have hit lists where if 1 of the known troublemakers posts in a thread where one of the others has already posted they are both automatically banned. Doesn't even matter what they post.

No one likes flame wars (well, some do) but that is what the trashcan is for.

Cliff will not get rid of them eventually, that is OUR job. He can't get rid of them unless they do something illegal or against forum rules. He has already stated this. The punisher was banned under his previous user name for posting the picture with Jordan and **** on the TV. He should never had been allowed to return and now is prooving hard to evict because not enough people are willing to rate him negative. I have noticed that he has not been posting as much lately, maybe he wants to keep a low profile for now till things cool down, so he can start up again.

Lex, to try and answer part of your question, consider these web sites:
http://www.familytreeguide.com/
http://www.genealogy.com/iffintro.html
http://www.genealogy-geneology.com/genealogybook/family_tree_guide.htm
http://www.myfamily.com/isapi.dll?c=home&htx=loginfront
What do these sites and millions more have to do with your question?
Personal and family tree web sites with family pics have been common place for years and are litterally everywhere.
Not to mention personal web sites, car web sites, hobbie web sites, school web sites, buisness web sites, church web sites, pet web sites, event web sites, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc
Posting pics on the internet is about as old as the internet itself. Probably originally an idea by Al Gore
Granted that common sense and good judgement should also be used when putting pics and personal information up on the net, but posting pics on the net has been going on for pretty much the history of the world wide web and become common place.
There was a thread on here not long ago with many pics of members posting pics of their young kids and their Fieros. It was a great thread and some very cute pics, but if some member took one or more of any of those pics and did anything similar to them to what Shaun/John did not that long ago I know you would get the exact same reaction from all of us as you see here.
We as forum members in our little world here on PFF have a moral and decent obligation at least to police ourselves to make sure that this stays a family freindly forum that any Fiero lover young and old can come on here and be able to enjoy and be a proud member of.
Should we change the way PFF runs just because one or two idiots like Shaun/john could and have taken a pic of someone posted and turn it into filth or worse, ****? Of course not. Instead we all should be showing them and anyone else who does that kind of crap the door immediatly and then keep them out.

quote Fiero5's address, name, and pics of his kids ARE STILL all over this board and other internet sites. For the review of Shuan and any other perverts? Yes. Will Fiero5 continue to post such information when he knows that such people exist on the internet in general? Probably.

Address and stuff? Not true. The one time I posted a pic that showed anything like that it was quickly pointed out to me and I quickly edited the pic.
I have seen many other members though post their personal phone numbers, their address and more at times publicly. That was there choice I guess but I won't do that but instead use PM or e-mail.

I hope that helps answer your question.

And yes this has all probably been said many times before. Hopefully everyone see's where at least I am coming from on this so I will be quiet now

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 10-28-2004).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Cliff will not get rid of them eventually, that is OUR job. He can't get rid of them unless they do something illegal or against forum rules. He has already stated this. The punisher was banned under his previous user name for posting the picture with Jordan and **** on the TV. He should never had been allowed to return and now is prooving hard to evict because not enough people are willing to rate him negative. I have noticed that he has not been posting as much lately, maybe he wants to keep a low profile for now till things cool down, so he can start up again.

Not Cliff himself, Cliff's system. Which yes, needs us to kick someone off. But EVENTUALLY they will tick enough people off that they will get themselves banned.

If everyone spent as much time working on their cars as they did complaining about the rating system, there would be a lot more stuff for me to read in the General and Tech sections.

Dam Steve shut up!!!! (please)

Though the pic was bad and there is some hate between you and a few here..... why the hell do you have to comment on EVERYTHING????

Drop it ! please

Man 7 pages of crap.........I stayed up to page 4 then it became a "Steve bash" thread! and nothing but repeating the same crap coming from all of ya'll is way stupid!

Die thread DIE ! please! gezzzzzz

quote Originally posted by Lex: Ok, for a moment let's say Shuan is a smexual predator. Let's go with the theory he likes kiddie pr0n. WE HAVE A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN SHUAN TO POLICE HERE. Not once has ANY of you said any thing about Jordans welfare. We have a atleast one sexual predator on the board(probably more as I am thinking they usually don't come out and admitt it) and Fiero5's address, name, and pics of his kids ARE STILL all over this board and other internet sites. For the review of Shuan and any other perverts? Yes. Will Fiero5 continue to post such information when he knows that such people exist on the internet in general? Probably. HOW DID THE PICS GET INTO SHUANS HANDS IN THE FIRST PLACE? Even if you ban Shuan, who knows what other creeps are lurking around the 'net and this forum, looking for a target. Cliff, since this is a self policing forum and the people agree, we may have a AT LEAST ONE kiddie molester here, it is prudent to close any threads with information about members children. What happened with Jordan could be much worse next time..... Of course this might not be about Jordan, sexual predators, or pervs, at all.

Lex,

This entire argument is about Jordan's welfare. I disagree with you conclusions that we should keep our children in boxes because there are sexual predators out there. Why should the child suffer? The logical conclusion is to get rid of the predators. Works sorta the same way as terrorists. We can either stay in our homes and be afraid to do anything and let them win, or we can take them out and go on with our lives.

How the picture got into Shaun's hands in the first place is clear, but irrelevant. As above, we do not let these types of people win. We (society) have to show them that we will not tolerate their actions, not hide away from them. If another one rears his ugly head after Shaun is gone, then we show that one too that we will not tolerate it. Sure sounds like a better idea than living in a box in fear...

I do agree that any thread with that kind of crap should be closed, and the perpetrator banned, regardless of ratings bar. And I can only speak for myself when I say that my part of this is EXACTLY about what Shaun did in relation to Jordan. Nothing else.

Wasn't he aleady banned for the pic ? I think he was taken care of for the pic.... He lost his account, Even if the account he's using now is banned then what would stop him from comming back under another user name. No matter how many times he's banned he will be back some way some how.... Unless your ip address is blocked when a member is banned.

The only way to defeat shaun is totally ignore him right out.... No matter what he says, Say noughting or do not responed..... I know that pisses anyone looking for trouble off,

If you don't answer his flame or question..... Then there's noughting

It takes more than gasoline to start a fire...... I know it's very very very hard to ignore a trouble maker I have been a victime of the urge and actually responded..... But there is the ignore command on the pm's function that helps alot.

That is the only way I can see taking care of a trouble maker. Usually I will throw in one post to a insulting or a thread starting trouble..... After that I let the trouble maker argue amoung himself and other ppl.... I do not even bother to click on the thread anymore.....

Also sitting here arguing about him won't do much but give him more attention that he's royally looking for.... He's probally sitting at his computer laughing at us all...... JUST IGNORE HIM FOR NOW ON AND HE WILL ADVENTUALLY GO AWAY DUE TO BORDOM. or continue to get himself enough ratings to band his account a secound time.

I know it's nice to post family and stuff on the forum.... But personally... I won't even post a pic of myself or any of my family but that's just me. Even if he does actually get a Photo of you or any family then still ignore him..... It's very easy to solve this troll problem and the solution is right in front of our noses.

There is this phrase that this old guy at our job always keeps telling me everytime im complaining about a problem person...... And that is kill him with kindness

My only slight concern or problem is some of the vulger pics or sigs.... Cliff has already taken care of those idividuals with suspending there pic posting hobby.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 10-28-2004).]

IMO, when a person is banned, they stay banned, and their IP is also banned. I believe that's what Cliff does now (banning the IP). Now, if someone comes back under another name and no one finds out, well, there's not much we can do, but if it is discovered they are a banned member returning, they should be immediately banned regardless of ratings bar.

I appreciate Cliff wanting to appeal to people's better nature, but look at the people who've been causing a lot of problems lately:
I'm Back, aka EdsB52
The Punisher, aka Shaun and Jon

Gee, all three of them previously banned members. What a surprise.
(there are probably others, but they are off the top of my head)

I also think there should be certain lines that are not to be crossed, and doing so should be grounds for immediate banning, no matter what your rating is. Posting any type of p0rnography should be one of them. Yes, sex exists in the real world; however, there is a time and a place for everything. This is a family oriented forum and it's not the proper venue for explicit photos. There are plenty of places to find adult material on the internet. We don't need it here.

If there's enough people who want to turn this place into a cesspool and enough members LET them do it, then this place will become a cesspool. At that point, I wouldn't blame Cliff for pulling the plug completely, and I imagine we're not far from that point now.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: IMO, when a person is banned, they stay banned, and their IP is also banned. I believe that's what Cliff does now (banning the IP). Now, if someone comes back under another name and no one finds out, well, there's not much we can do, but if it is discovered they are a banned member returning, they should be immediately banned regardless of ratings bar. I appreciate Cliff wanting to appeal to people's better nature, but look at the people who've been causing a lot of problems lately: I'm Back, aka EdsB52 The Punisher, aka Shaun and Jon Gee, all three of them previously banned members. What a surprise. (there are probably others, but they are off the top of my head) I also think there should be certain lines that are not to be crossed, and doing so should be grounds for immediate banning, no matter what your rating is. Posting any type of p0rnography should be one of them. Yes, sex exists in the real world; however, there is a time and a place for everything. This is a family oriented forum and it's not the proper venue for explicit photos. There are plenty of places to find adult material on the internet. We don't need it here. If there's enough people who want to turn this place into a cesspool and enough members LET them do it, then this place will become a cesspool. At that point, I wouldn't blame Cliff for pulling the plug completely, and I imagine we're not far from that point now.

If that's teh case now that a banned person's user id is banned then that is actually very good now..... The only thing we could do to him is still ignore him.... I will do a example, Anyone remember the thread he started ( 86fieroEarl what time did you do saturday) I ignored him till the thread grew to 2 pages then responed 1once.... That thread alone had him on the virge of getting banned, His red bar was even flashing... If it wasn't for a few ppl that felt pity for him.... he would of been gone or changed his attitude to get him back from the flashing red.... He annoyed alot of ppl in that thread I only sat by my computer laughing at him getting himself deeper......... If more ppl would simply ignore him how many threads do you think he would last in ? probally Not many.

archie stated a very good example of it all in a earlier post.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 10-28-2004).]

ok i hate getting involved in these things but there seems to be a simple problem here.

entitlement issues - people feel they are entitled to somethig - that they have the rigt to post whatever they want

PFF is not a right - its a privilage that can be taken away at any time if Cliff gets fed up

please people - even if you have no respect for someone else - have a little respect for the forum

I would like to give out a few well deserved negatives, but I don't because I believe I will get undeserved negatives right back at me, so I just don't do anything. A flaw with my thinking or with the rating system?

------------------
Tim
Red 88 Formula Auto 2.8 100K+ Miles

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence!

quote Originally posted by FrugalFiero: I would like to give out a few well deserved negatives, but I don't because I believe I will get undeserved negatives right back at me, so I just don't do anything. A flaw with my thinking or with the rating system?

unless i'm istaken people have no clue who rated them unless you tell em how you rated em..

quote Originally posted by Songman: This entire argument is about Jordan's welfare. ...(snip)... And I can only speak for myself when I say that my part of this is EXACTLY about what Shaun did in relation to Jordan. Nothing else.

In a way, I can say the same thing. I have to say it's about how some members feel they can be direspectful and abusive to others with impunity. Yes, I hear you all telling me that Donk never said it and I shouldn't be picking on him. I've already said why I singled him out and I won't waste the space to repeat it. Donk says I'm "p'ing him off". Well, Donk, how about the hundreds of fellow members you've p'd off? Now you're crying foul?

quote How the picture got into Shaun's hands in the first place is clear, but irrelevant.

I agree. Don't let this be misdirected into a discussion about who's fault the picture was posted online. It's not about that, it never was about that and there's no importance to it anyway - there's nothing illegal or immoral about it. Does that mean if you find a gun on the sidewalk and shoot someone, it's someone else's fault? Once again, we should all be taking more responsibility for our posts around here.

quote As above, we do not let these types of people win. We (society) have to show them that we will not tolerate their actions, not hide away from them. If another one rears his ugly head after Shaun is gone, then we show that one too that we will not tolerate it. Sure sounds like a better idea than living in a box in fear...

Right beside you.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: unless i'm istaken people have no clue who rated them unless you tell em how you rated em..

That is correct. Cliff can see who rated who, but that's it.