Jeez.. This isn't exactly a forum full of flames. Why don't you guys go to some other car forums and see how they are? It's never going to be perfect for you guys, and if it is, it'll be a bunch of you guys sitting around agreeing with each others political and religious views.. Which obviously, is how you want it. No one is really offensive to the next guy. Ratings are being handed out for views and opinions, rather than how they are said, thats the way it is, and the only way you are going ot change it, is by doing what you are trying to do, and trying to eliminate everyone you don't agree with. And you can't honestly say thats not what you're trying to do (hell, maybe consciously, you don't even know it).
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08:09 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
hahah.. Johnny.. All I can say to you is that you seem to not read anything that comes before... But keep on thinking that it is all about different political and religious beliefs...
Jeez.. This isn't exactly a forum full of flames. Why don't you guys go to some other car forums and see how they are? It's never going to be perfect for you guys, and if it is, it'll be a bunch of you guys sitting around agreeing with each others political and religious views.. Which obviously, is how you want it. No one is really offensive to the next guy. Ratings are being handed out for views and opinions, rather than how they are said, thats the way it is, and the only way you are going ot change it, is by doing what you are trying to do, and trying to eliminate everyone you don't agree with. And you can't honestly say thats not what you're trying to do (hell, maybe consciously, you don't even know it).
quote
Originally posted by Lex: Even if everyone abides by the rules, there will be red bars. It's the nature of the beast; humans try to rid their environment of that which challenges their beliefs, ideas, and values. Fiero5 has undoubtedly taken negs based only the appearance of his car. Negs will be handed out because someone did or did not swap a SBC, negs will be handed out solely because some does or does not like Bush, and negs will be handed out because some does or does not believe in god.
hahah.. Johnny.. All I can say to you is that you seem to not read anything that comes before... But keep on thinking that it is all about different political and religious beliefs...
He didn't say was all about political/religous viewpoints.
The point is, even if every member followed all the rules, PFF would still have red bars.
[This message has been edited by Lex (edited 10-24-2004).]
hahah.. Johnny.. All I can say to you is that you seem to not read anything that comes before... But keep on thinking that it is all about different political and religious beliefs...
See, I post my views, and you say something back that sounds derogatory.. Now how are you trying to end it by acting like that?
Well, I'm no fortune teller so I'm not going to say there would or would not be red bars if everyone followed the rules. What I do know is that everyone has not followed the rules. And I also know that when people go around bragging about their red bars and act worse because they think they will not be banned (or will be able to come back) that it is time for people to start speaking up. I'm honestly shocked that you guys are speaking up for someone who tells a father that he saw his son in a **** mag.. and then invited them to sign his balls. Is that really the kind of people that you guys respect?
See, I post my views, and you say something back that sounds derogatory.. Now how are you trying to end it by acting like that?
I say that because your comment is a smokescreen used by people who act up. I can't say that NO ONE gives out negs for opinions, but you act like ALL negs are because of opinions... I'm sorry, but you are just wrong. Post your views all you want, but don't try to make it sound like it is fact.
Lex, a few PMs don't prove anything... Regardless of which side you are on, a few people will agree with you. That doesn't make you right... And yes, the same goes for me... But then, we are not talking about whether someone believes in God, are we? This all started because Punisher feels the need to abuse people. Leave O/T out of this... People expect to argue there. We are talking about people acting outside of socially acceptable behaviour in regular forum.
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 10-24-2004).]
. I'm honestly shocked that you guys are speaking up for someone who tells a father that he saw his son in a **** mag.. and then invited them to sign his balls. Is that really the kind of people that you guys respect?
When did I speak up for exactly that? Please quote....
I say that because your comment is a smokescreen used by people who act up. I can't say that NO ONE gives out negs for opinions, but you act like ALL negs are because of opinions... I'm sorry, but you are just wrong. Post your views all you want, but don't try to make it sound like it is fact.
People hand out negs becuase they warrant it. People hand out negs becuase they disagree with someone's views. Both are fact.
[This message has been edited by Lex (edited 10-24-2004).]
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08:53 PM
PFF
System Bot
donk316 Member
Posts: 1952 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
Originally posted by Songman: I'm honestly shocked that you guys are speaking up for someone who tells a father that he saw his son in a **** mag.. and then invited them to sign his balls. Is that really the kind of people that you guys respect?
the **** mag thing is an old reference to something that happened along time ago and was appologized for by said parties. the "sign my balls" was maybe bad taste but again, not everyone saw it that way.
quote
Originally posted by Songman: Leave O/T out of this... People expect to argue there. We are talking about people acting outside of socially acceptable behaviour in regular forum.
seriously if that were true and OT was "ratings free" we wouldnt be having the "color wars" right now
[This message has been edited by donk316 (edited 10-24-2004).]
Should I post some of the pms I have recieved about if god exists?
Not for me. If you were rated negatively because you had a differing opinion it is probably unfair. If you were rated because you were discourteous in the way you offered the opinion, then that's a different matter. I didn't read much of the thread.
I say that because your comment is a smokescreen used by people who act up. I can't say that NO ONE gives out negs for opinions, but you act like ALL negs are because of opinions... I'm sorry, but you are just wrong. Post your views all you want, but don't try to make it sound like it is fact.
Lex, a few PMs don't prove anything... Regardless of which side you are on, a few people will agree with you. That doesn't make you right... And yes, the same goes for me... But then, we are not talking about whether someone believes in God, are we? This all started because Punisher feels the need to abuse people. Leave O/T out of this... People expect to argue there. We are talking about people acting outside of socially acceptable behaviour in regular forum.
So I act up now? Or is your version of me 'acting up' the way you interpret my messages (I say they are all fact).. And the same goes for you, because you have a greenbar, you feel you can act however you feel like it. If you were a new member that started a month ago, you would be in the flashing red by now.
Not for me. If you were rated negatively because you had a differing opinion it is probably unfair. If you were rated because you were discourteous in the way you offered the opinion, then that's a different matter. I didn't read much of the thread.
I was civil. I recieved a couple of insults, but hurled none.
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08:59 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
But that is not what Johnny said.. He said "no one is really offensive to the next guy" and 'ratings are handed out on what people say, not how they say it". So I said he was wrong... Sorry if he got all upset.. But the examples I have mentioned several times are offensive, not only to the next guy but to most of us...
I'm going to stop now because, as I said before, there is no stopping with you.. I've explained my position thoroughly several times.. This is what I mean about trying to frustrate... Ask your questions of me and then go back to where I answered before and read the answers there... I know you and Johnny will now say I am propogating the very thing we are trying to stop, but that is your opinion. My opinion is that you know exactly what I am talking about and are just trying to keep this going. If you are proud of your red bars, fine.. Enjoy them. I'm done with this..
But that is not what Johnny said.. He said "no one is really offensive to the next guy" and 'ratings are handed out on what people say, not how they say it". So I said he was wrong... Sorry if he got all upset.. But the examples I have mentioned several times are offensive, not only to the next guy but to most of us...
I'm going to stop now because, as I said before, there is no stopping with you.. I've explained my position thoroughly several times.. This is what I mean about trying to frustrate... Ask your questions of me and then go back to where I answered before and read the answers there... I know you and Johnny will now say I am propogating the very thing we are trying to stop, but that is your opinion. My opinion is that you know exactly what I am talking about and are just trying to keep this going. If you are proud of your red bars, fine.. Enjoy them. I'm done with this..
Does anyone else see any reason for Songman to be frustrated here? We are not having a flame war or a mud slinging contest. It's a discussion. If you are frustrated right now, dropping it for a while might be a good idea. It's not worth getting all worked over.
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09:05 PM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11870 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
Jeez.. This isn't exactly a forum full of flames. Why don't you guys go to some other car forums and see how they are? It's never going to be perfect for you guys, and if it is, it'll be a bunch of you guys sitting around agreeing with each others political and religious views.. Which obviously, is how you want it.
I think you are missing the point here. Everybody agrees that it's totally ok to disagree with each other sometimes. Even the flamewars are ok every now and then. But what's never ok is when people are starting to become truly offensive. And that's what bothers me and a lot of other people. If you look at the flamewars here lately, you'll see that after page two or so it's no longer about whatever it was the discussion was about. It's about who can be the most vulgar, who can post the most offensive picture, or who "ownes" who. It's never ok to take shots at an 11-year old. It's never ok to post a photoshopped picture of that same 11-year old kid with a porno-movie playing in the background. That's crossing a line. That's crossing a line big time. And it's bad enough that even one person think it's cool, it's even worse when others think it's cool because they are getting away with it. You really think these people are doing it because they like to "say it as it is"? Don't give me that crap. They are doing it because they can't wait to post their latest "You are Ghey" picture. Let's see how well they do in a discussion without posting these kinds of pictures. Without posting links to "member-so-and-so.has-a-small-p***s.com". Let's see how well they can "say it as it is" without all this.
And it's taken into other threads as well. So one person can no longer post a thread without the other jumping in and hijacking the thread.
And yes, there are only a few of them. And the number of good far outweighs the number of bad. But as we all know, it only takes a few bad appels to destroy the entire batch. And that's what I see happening here. A few bad members destroying an unproportional number of good threads.
To be honest, I don't care how bad it is on other forums. I don't care how "civilized" PFF is compared to other forums. I don't care how filthy it is in other people's houses, I want our house to be clean.
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09:09 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
I think what Cliff is trying to say is that it is up to us to clean house. If people are being offensive or vulgar they deserve a negative rating. This is a family forum, even tho most of us are adults, we still need to keep it clean for the benefit of the younger audience. If we all don't band together to eliminate the problem, it will never go away, unless they do something illegal, then Cliff will be forced to ban them himself. Cliff would also like us to alert him to possible infractions of the rules as he doesn't have the time to read every single post on the forum. The bottom line is that it is up to us to clean house if it needs to be done.
------------------ Member of the greenbar syndicate
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09:19 PM
Firefox Member
Posts: 4307 From: New Berlin, Wisconsin Registered: Feb 2003
To be honest, I don't care how bad it is on other forums. I don't care how "civilized" PFF is compared to other forums. I don't care how filthy it is in other people's houses, I want our house to be clean.
Your right about the Pun. And the rest of do need to tone it down. What about the other rule breakers?
What about the other aspects of your forum? The half a million "Look who is voting for who threads" in O/T? This isn't even an "American" forum.
What about when one of the "Green bar Cons" starts raggin on the Germans, French, Canadians and whoever else becuase they don't support Bush? The last time I checked, you have German, French, Canadian members. Those threads always go un-noticed. The greens find the "ratings threads" are acceptable when someone says "Hey I like your car." "Oh, cool man. Even though we are not suppose to start ratings threads, I won't say anything because you like my car."
I guess it's ok for some members to break the rules........
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09:27 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by donk316: the **** mag thing is an old reference to something that happened along time ago and was appologized for by said parties. the "sign my balls" was maybe bad taste but again, not everyone saw it that way.
What?? They opologized? When?? You have got to be kidding me! A long time ago?? Wrong again. Like a few months ago more like it. Funny how I get constantly raked accross the coals for a bad judgement over a freakin' year ago on using a watch to try and get a 0-60 and clearly opologized in the same thread mere days later, again over a year ago and yet the insulting Punsiher does something far worse (in his earlier PFF id) that gets him banned instantly and you now come in here and say this line of BS?? And some of you wonder why you are seen the bad way you are constantly. Un freakin' beleivable!
[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 10-24-2004).]
You are confusing the O/T section with the parts of the Forum most of us would like to use.
Cliff could shut off O/T today & most of us wouldn't notice it for weeks.
Archie
Good call. Someone was asking me and another member about the forum last night. "Why do you guys like going to PFF"
Me: "Lots of good information"
Porvette: "Lots of good information in tech, Gen is OK, O/T is worthless. I try not to go there."
So, I can see where you are coming from, but if Cliff has placed a rule to be observed, then it should be observed in all cases. Regardless of what people think of a specific section.
[This message has been edited by Lex (edited 10-24-2004).]
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09:41 PM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11870 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
I guess it's ok for some members to break the rules........
No it's not. And some of the "green" members here can attest to that because I've either PM'd them about it (breaking a forum rule) or openly pointed it out to them in a thread. Difference being that most of these members respect that and don't go try to find other ways to "walk the edge".
Argh. 4am again. You'll have to continue this without me.
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09:52 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41141 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
...i think that Cliff should give a select few on this board be given the choice of becoming a Moderator and ending this... one person who i have never seen get into a flame war was Raydar. i think he would be a good candidate.
Ummmm... WHAT?!
There ain't enough money...
Seriously, though. I have flamed one or two people. One of them (who even posted in this thread), I toasted to a crispy golden brown, in front of God and everybody. And he chose not to answer me. At all. No problem. It just further backs up the statements that I made in my original rant. I just have nothing to do with him any more, and he still has zero credibility in my opinion (and everybody else I talk with who knows him.) The other one was banned, but later got back on. (Nobody in this thread, btw.) To this day, I don't have much of anything to do with him. Don't have any reason or desire to.
Flaming is not something I do on a regular basis, though. I choose my battles carefully. When I unload upon someone, I try to make it count. And the people who choose to read my words know that I'm not doing it just to hear myself talk (type?). I generally don't argue politics or religion, because I'm not going to change anybody's mind. Neither is anybody else. I might throw in a sarcastic comment or an eyeroll or a <snicker> here and there, but that's about it.
Moderator? Please don't throw me in that briar patch.
------------------ Raydar 88 3.4 coupe........... Coming soon... 88 Formula, presently under the knife. Read Nealz Nuze!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-24-2004).]
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10:13 PM
TaurusThug Member
Posts: 4271 From: Simpsonville, SC Registered: Aug 2003
exactly as cliff said in his first post... thats it... period.
raydar... i used you as an example because ive have yet to see you go nuts over something and people seem to respect you since youve been here since '99 and you know what your talking about... there are others on here buy you were the first person that came to mind.
archie... oh i think that after you had his PW for a few i would like it too.
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11:03 PM
jetman Member
Posts: 7799 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I want our house to be clean.
I will agree. 100% support from me. There are many good and decent folks who truely care and respect each other on this forum. There is also a very small handful of folks who spew their destructive venom across the forum pages in total disrespect of their fellow members. I say that its time to break out a broom and clean house.
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11:07 PM
trigger Member
Posts: 494 From: dubuque, ia 52003 Registered: Jul 2000
i think the ratings system is slightly flawed because of the bandwagon effect. but to an extent it is valid because you are allowed to put what you think. sometimes i wonder if it even counts my votes though. because i will rate someone, and refresh that page, and it doesn't show up. i think that some of the red bar people get a bad rap for the sole purpose that they are willing to stand up to a green bar person and call bs.
as for having moderators, i am a moderator on a dsm forum. i do not have the power to ban people, but i can warn them, and then have a moderator ban them if they feel its appropriate. i find that boards that give moderators the power to ban turn into crap, because people are afraid to say what they think because the nazis will get them.
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
Now give me your password for about 15 minutes & I'll fix it for you.
But you're just as guilty as all the people you want to condemn. The people with red disagree, and MOST are not deragatory about it. But you just hurl insults or try to belittle when you deem appropriate, and since you seem to have some sort of loyal backing, it's alright.
So basically, it doesn't matter how people act, people just want to talk to people who agree with them.
Your right about the Pun. And the rest of do need to tone it down. What about the other rule breakers?
What about the other aspects of your forum? The half a million "Look who is voting for who threads" in O/T? This isn't even an "American" forum.
What about when one of the "Green bar Cons" starts raggin on the Germans, French, Canadians and whoever else becuase they don't support Bush? The last time I checked, you have German, French, Canadian members. Those threads always go un-noticed. The greens find the "ratings threads" are acceptable when someone says "Hey I like your car." "Oh, cool man. Even though we are not suppose to start ratings threads, I won't say anything because you like my car."
I guess it's ok for some members to break the rules........
This is an excellent example of what I am talking about. No offense to anyone, but here we have flames, a rate me, and canada bashing in a single stroke. Yet, I can see that being for Bush, christian, and anti-Canadian outweighs the trolling.
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02:00 AM
cptn_donut Member
Posts: 28 From: Quesnel, BC, Canada Registered: Feb 2004
Being a gamer, I think we all need to have a giant deathmatch. It's much more effective than group therapy. Really now, put down your keyboards and pick up your rocket launchers!
Being a gamer, I think we all need to have a giant deathmatch. It's much more effective than group therapy. Really now, put down your keyboards and pick up your rocket launchers!
when do you wanna play??? ive got some custom maps that my friend made... he got recognition during the make something unreal contest. we should seriously have a PFF UT2k3 DM
ok... lets settle this in a nice mannerly way... . . . . . . . by blowing S**T up in video games!!!! screw UT2k3 lets play DOOM3 or for those "special" people we could play Half-Life 2
Respect, Integrity.......... Common Sense. Takling about pr0n and a child is totally uncalled for. Each member needs to look in the mirror and decide how their words actions are affecting others. Some may not care, that is sad. Others will clean up their act. Others will say, I am doing a good job.
Remember, we're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time. Let's be cool to each other.
------------------ www.cardomain.com/id/wingnutmd --- "Peg" --- 1985 GT - THE FORGOTTON GT! Just a member of PFF, not associated with any society or club
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10:15 AM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
