i for one am tired of all the flame wars that have been happening on this forum lately. so i am starting the "I'm Tired Of All The Flame Wars" committee... if you would like to join me help rid this board of flamers and trolls then just put it in your sig like me.

this probably wont work but... what the hell?

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'86 Fiero GT

My Fiero XoticRydz
Mid-Rear Madness
Member of the "Im Tired Of All The Flame Wars" committee ITOATFW

[This message has been edited by TaurusThug (edited 10-24-2004).]

o, o, pick me, pick me.

yeah i've noticed that there have been a lot of flame wars on here recently, and it's getting a little old already. I for one am going to start staying out of them, and i'll be doing my part.

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AIM= Fish100770
My cardomain site: cardomain.com/memberpage/702872

Support a Free Forum, everyone do their part.

What exactly do you have in mind to get rid of trolls and flamers, besides the extra line in your signature?

you can't have a club if you don't have a treehouse to hold your meetings!
seriously though there's always gonna be a little static.....no reason to start a clique about it.

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: I for one am going to start staying out of them, and i'll be doing my part.

If only we could all live by those words, we wouldn't need the ITOBLAHBLAHBLAHTFW

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3 Indys, 1 is A/C delete
84 Black/Silver T-top custom
85 GT speedster
86 GT Yellow
88 Formula, Red
88 GT White, T-top, 5 speed.

However......
"Time is the most precious and perishable of my possessions."

Buy IRM, again! at www.fierowarehouse.com

007DOUG, an IFCF member. (International Fiero Crime Fighter)

I'm with you, but untill Cliff gives someone the authority to enforce the rules there is very little that can be done, aside from letting the trolls post and the rest of us not responding. Of course, that means that the trolls will be in control.

Cliff ahs given me the power, he has given you the power, he has enabled all of us the ratings system and next time you see a flame war start, use your power to kick someone off.

quote Originally posted by TaurusThug: just put it in your sig like me.

OK

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Member of the "Im Tired Of All The Flame Wars" committee ITOATFW

The commitee is already here and set up.... with the ratings system. Though it sadly doesn't work 100%, it is the best thing we have at this time.
If you love PFF and want the ability of any and all of it's members to be able to post without the fear or reality of getting attacked, insulted and having someones poor attitude pushed on us as their "opinion" then protect it with your ability to vote.
Cliff is trying and he is listening but he is also watching and seeing if what we say we want is the same as what we actually do. You know, if we not only talk the talk but also walk the walk kind of thing. I think what Cliff and quite a few of us members are trying to say is that if you don't use the ratings system correctly, how is setting up some kind of committee going to work any better?
I suppose it can't hurt and anything that supports a positive forum is always a good thing , I just wonder what actual good having this extra little text in a sig will do?

And cooguyfish, I hope you do finally stop contributing to them. If not then it just leaves one question left for you, are you the pot or the kettle?

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 10-24-2004).]

ooooh, oooh! i love a "necktie party", as long as i'm not the guest of honor

count me in even if it dont work...

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Member of the "Im Tired Of All The Flame Wars" committee ITOATFW

quote Originally posted by Fiero5:

Hypocrit.

quote Originally posted by Unsafe At Any Speed: Hypocrit.

uhm, yeah...whatever

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

look its about to happen AGAIN.... and im not saying that a committee is needed i was hoping that everyone who flames will realize that it has gotten so out of hand that stupid things like this are happening... and the fact that some people are proud to be part of the "red bar brigade"

hopefully this will encourage people to use their right to vote people off of this site. and that you will all think about how dumb you sound when you troll and/or flame. you know who im talking too...

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'86 Fiero GT

My Fiero XoticRydz
Mid-Rear Madness
Member of the "Im Tired Of All The Flame Wars" committee ITOATFW

[This message has been edited by TaurusThug (edited 10-24-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: uhm, yeah...whatever

Steve, I mean no offence but it might be a little easier getting rid of these trolls if you would just stay out of it.

I say this for a couple of reasons...... You've already been proven to be somewhat less that truthful in a couple of the Trashcan threads. & sometimes in the threads where Pun is after you, you appear to be trying to keep the flames going instead of ending them.

You'll note that in Cliff's latest post to this thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/043435.html He pointed out that .....

quote I can live with the fact they are getting positives from their likes, because they are far outweighed by the number of members who do behave themselves. But when these people massively get positives from people who are supposedly "the good guys" on the forum,

I believe that the reason these trolls keep getting enough positives to stay on the forum is because everyonce in a while they go after someone like you who is not necessarily liked by everyone.

For example. when Pun went after Songman, we almost had enough of a swell against him to get him out of here. A few days later he was able to move back towards the positive by going after you.

So AFAIAC, this isn't about you. This is about getting rid of these trolls once & for all.

Archie

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Member of the "Im Tired Of All The Flame Wars" committee ITOATFW

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 10-24-2004).]

you cant say that songman hasnt flamed a bit lately either... i was rather dissapointed when i saw that. i expected more from him.

i think the saddest part about this is that an 18 year old kid is making this post... and trying to get my elders to STFU and stop trolling/flaming.

Archie,
Geeze, I'm not sure how to take that. I have read it a few times now and each time it sounds a bit different. There isn't one member on here that doesn't have some red, so no one is liked by everyone LOL
Are you suggesting in some way that I may be to blame for some of the trolls still being around? I would hardly think so and hope that is not what you meant. Is Songman or another member more worthy of protecting from attacks by trolls than another? I certainly hope that isn't the case and that instead everyone is just as equal in having others stand up for them when wrongfully attacked by others. Members either want the trolls here or they don't, and I would hope it's as simple as that.
Punisher went after one member after another and posting crap in thread after thread while thumbing their combined noses at Cliff and the forum members as well. Yes, they then also went after me relentlessly and if the members don't like this kind of thing continuing on here then vote them off allready.
As for trash can threads and Fiero5 being caught less than truthfull, I would like to suggest taking the persons and their comments and past history and how they present into account and not allow the taking of old threads and misrepresenting not only what was said but like in a couple of threads consider what the actual "outcome" ended up being in them. When I was wrong, I admited it and opologized.
When someone does something incorrectly and then opologize for it quickly after, how is that being less than truthfull?

Some of this has been beaten to death and I don't want to get this thread off track on this here so if you want to talk further, maybe you could PM me.
I have met you a few times, your a cool guy and I respect you and what you have done for the Fiero community so I hope that my response here isn't taken the wrong way

Steve

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 10-24-2004).]

i think that if eveyrone, including you Fiero5, cleaned up thier act a little that the neg's would go away. right now Fiero5 has a neg and so does The Punisher as well as a few others. both of which had positives untill recently when Fiero5 started to lash back at The Punisher and when the Punisher started to get on my nerves. i do give Fiero5 credit for saying that they should take this to PM's and if he keeps that kinda stuff up ill change his rating back to a plus because i really like what he has done for his kids.

quote Originally posted by TaurusThug: you cant say that songman hasnt flamed a bit lately either... i was rather dissapointed when i saw that. i expected more from him.

Yes, after a while the good guys also get fed up & respond in kind. Some of the good guys are beginning to realize that ignoring the trolls & not posting only results in the trolls taking the Forum over.

Archie

we dont need to respond like that but we shoudl use our power of the ratings system.

My only fear is what will happen once the flame wars die down, one of those two clowns makes it into office, Manty passes on, Thingie "gets old" again, and it's winter for a lot of us?

I'm gonna be BORED as heck.

I'm not saying I'm a big fan of flame wars, but at least it's been somewhat entertaining...

quote Originally posted by TaurusThug: we dont need to respond like that but we shoudl use our power of the ratings system.

As a guy who's had his share of stalkers, I can tell you that it's a lot easier said than done.

The problem appears to be, too many members prefer the kind of trash we're talking about, as entertainment.

If you guys would just realize that the forum will NEVER be exactly how you want it. The only thing that will work as far as flame wars and so on is to:

IGNORE IT AND DO NOT POST IN REGARDS TO IT.

The reason "we" are still around is because , believe it or not, not everyone sees things like a few of you. Do you know the countless PMs myself, Lex, Pun <for instance> get from other members who will remain nameless saying "thank you" or "good job" or the one i get alot of personally "you made me laugh" and the like....it happens because this "ratings elitist mentality" has literally scared people into not posting how they feel in fear of a mob.

Really now...it isnt that big of a deal is it...we can all co-exsist if we all realize that we all belong here. Like it or not.

Dont take this post as a personal attack towards any one individual because its written to be a generalistic view. Thanks.

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Member of the Redbar Brigade

Why have i allways been in a gang?!

[This message has been edited by donk316 (edited 10-24-2004).]

quote Originally posted by donk316: IGNORE IT AND DO NOT POST IN REGARDS TO IT.

We did ignore it for an awefully long time, in the past year the number of let's call "Red Members" has increased quite a bite, and we have just as much right to our opinion as you guys do.

RESPECT - That's the difference. The only time I have ever spoken against anyone is when they were purposely disrespecting someone.. and doing it ways that disrespect the rules of the forum and acceptable society. Yeah, we all get PMs saying good job. Ratings bars don't lie regardless of what people with red bars think. These wars are never about what a person says, only in the rude and unacceptable way they chose to say it. It's a sad day if the majority of forum readers think the way Punisher and others behave is acceptable. Talk about 'forum elitist' all you want. That doesn't make it true. The majority of people are nice, friendly and respectful. If that makes the majority elite, so be it.

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Fiero-Performance.com
2nd Annual California Coast Run

quote Originally posted by California Kid: We did ignore it for an awefully long time, in the past year the number of let's call "Red Members" has increased quite a bite, and we have just as much right to our opinion as you guys do.

jesus man, your seriously missing the point of the entire post.

Also, what did you think was going to happen when you post a "hitlist" of people who you think should be banned...I mean....cmon man!

I'm sorry... I can only be in one gang... But I do support your vague ethereal committee's efforts.

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Northstar 87 GT...complete

Member of the greenbar syndicate

quote Originally posted by donk316: The reason "we" are still around is because , believe it or not, not everyone sees things like a few of you. Do you know the countless PMs myself, Lex, Pun <for instance> get from other members who will remain nameless saying "thank you" or "good job" or the one i get alot of personally "you made me laugh" and the like....it happens because this "ratings elitist mentality" has literally scared people into not posting how they feel in fear of a mob..

Yeah, it's true. A lot of Green, White, and no bars like us calling BS. I have recieved quite a few postive PM's from Green bar forum members.

It's also true we could curve our style somewhat. Tone it down so to speak.

Fiero5, is right, the ratings system doesn't work 100%. I recieved a couple of negs in a recent thread for arguing that you cannot prove god exists. WTF? A few people tried to twist it like I was the one being insulting, provoking, or frustrating. I was logical, fair, I didn't resort to insults and guess what? I still pissed people off. The debate also did not stray from the topic of the thread too much. So how does that justify the negs? That's the kinda thing that makes me want to go ape-**** here........

I say we settle all this with a Chain Reaction tournament in the chat.

Unless you're scared. Muahahaha.

I want to say that I think donk316 has toned his remarks down quite a bit. Very noticable and a very pleasant change...

Lex, you frustrate the crap out of me quite often but I haven't given you a negative. Sometimes I think you walk the line on purpose just to get people going.. I don't agree with that thinking but I don't give negatives until people step over that line.. Can you say the same? I think I got a couple of negatives in that thread for being a Christian.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: We did ignore it for an awefully long time, in the past year the number of let's call "Red Members" has increased quite a bite, and we have just as much right to our opinion as you guys do.

You do.
Just be careful, if that "number" increases too much, what is bad becomes good and vice versa. Democracy is cool like that. And further proof that the ratings system is flawed…

Hey Donk.........When I see my meter drop, I'll shut my mouth !

quote Originally posted by Songman: I want to say that I think donk316 has toned his remarks down quite a bit. Very noticable and a very pleasant change... Lex, you frustrate the crap out of me quite often but I haven't given you a negative. Sometimes I think you walk the line on purpose just to get people going.. I don't agree with that thinking but I don't give negatives until people step over that line.. Can you say the same? I think I got a couple of negatives in that thread for being a Christian.

I am sorry I frustrate ya. I don't "walk the line" to get people going.
I would never hand negs out over personal beliefs and I wasn't sure if you would either. I know OTHERS did. It's quite unfortunate you took a couple of neg hits yourself for that.

quote Originally posted by Lex: Just be careful, if that "number" increases too much, what is bad becomes good and vice versa. Democracy is cool like that. And further proof that the ratings system is flawed…

I think you just hit on the reason for this whole thing. Those of us who are respectful of Cliff, the forum rules, and other members don't want the numbers to increase too much. That is why we are saying something now before it happens. The number of people who follow the rules will never be less than the number who break them. But the vocal minority controlling how things are 'accepted' is evident in our country right now.. We don't want the forum to come to this. The only flaw in the ratings system is that it allows rule breakers to band together to keep each other from being accountable...

first off... i used to think that donk, pun, and lex(i haven't had a problem w/ him) were all great people and each one of them has helped me... pun even did recently but when a constant barage of "F*** You" statements occur then things change.

i think that Cliff should give a select few on this board be given the choice of becoming a Moderator and ending this... one person who i have never seen get into a flame war was Raydar. i think he would be a good candidate. and untill recently Songman would be too, and probably still is. i know that if i was a mod i would delete more than a few post/threads on here.

quote Originally posted by Songman: I think you just hit on the reason for this whole thing. Those of us who are respectful of Cliff, the forum rules, and other members don't want the numbers to increase too much. That is why we are saying something now before it happens. The number of people who follow the rules will never be less than the number who break them. But the vocal minority controlling how things are 'accepted' is evident in our country right now.. We don't want the forum to come to this. The only flaw in the ratings system is that it allows rule breakers to band together to keep each other from being accountable...

Even if everyone abides by the rules, there will be red bars. It's the nature of the beast; humans try to rid their environment of that which challenges their beliefs, ideas, and values.
Fiero5 has undoubtedly taken negs based only the appearance of his car. Negs will be handed out because someone did or did not swap a SBC, negs will be handed out solely because some does or does not like Bush, and negs will be handed out because some does or does not believe in god.

[This message has been edited by Lex (edited 10-24-2004).]

<------ Is just tired of being outgunned by pick up trucks in his duke.

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I am sorry that apparently I have lost some respect from people over my attacks on Punisher... I have tried to assure people that it was not in any way necessarily a defense of fiero5 because I don't know anything about him. I have since found out that he has quite a few enemies on the board.. BUT that doesn't mean I would change what I did. I did what I did because comments talking about children and ****, and comments about people signing sexual body parts are uncalled for. They are worse than uncalled for. They are unacceptable. These things do not need to be tolerated or laughed at. And even if the person periodically shows Fiero knowledge they should still not be allowed to be here if they do these things. And it is not like Punisher hasn't had chances to change. He has only gotten worse... Donk straightened up a little a while back when someone got on him.. I don't find him any less cool now than he was before.. Now he is just nicer to 'read'.