What I don't get is how come no one has developed roller cams for the ohc engines yet? Think of the friction loss of these engines over a roller cam pushrod motor. That with a nice true roller timing chain would work wonders and take out some of the bugs of the ohc technology.
By roller cam, you mean a setup with roller lifters, right? Cause the Ecotec has that (I can get pics). By roller chain, what do you mean?
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04:11 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
By roller cam, you mean a setup with roller lifters, right? Cause the Ecotec has that (I can get pics). By roller chain, what do you mean?
Forgive my ignorance...I had no idea those existed....as you can see I'm really new to GM four cylinders.
By true roller chain I mean a timing chain that offers very little resistance and very smooth operation. You have roller chains which are nice and then you have true roller chains which are great. I don't know the exact makeup of them but domestic V8s have been using these for years and years now. They are also supposed to make less noise and of course free up a couple hp, but again I've never used one so I don't know everything about them. But I can't help thinking if the small chain of a V8 frees up a couple hp imagine the implications of a nice true roller on an ohc.
------------------ I have the precious gift of patience.....it just takes too long to use it!
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04:46 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Methanol is not my choice of fuel. It's a major pain to flush the fuel system after each use.
Without that, 1,200HP is insane. 700HP at the most on pump gas, and that would be with alcohol injection (which makes pump gas almost like race fuel), even so, that would be pushing the limits.
I don't think I'll go that high. 500 is good for me. Besides, can the Getrag even take that kind of power?!?!?! 700HP is alot.
A downside to this motor, is that to go beyond the 700 mark, you need to double the injectors, revamp the whole fuel system, get a huge turbo, get one heck of an intercooler, get a dry sump oil system (well, maybe wet sump is good to 950), and get a total stand alone ECM.
Besides that, it wouldn't even be street legal.
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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12:10 AM
couch2199 Member
Posts: 124 From: Fort Wayne,IN Registered: May 2003
I'm also getting into the ecotec craze...got an 04 Cav that I am already tinkering around with...not that the Fiero wasn't enough! There are rumors that there will be a GM sponsored turbo kit from those who built the 1,200 hp drag cav and will put out 500 hp. I'll have to find the ricer magazine it was in...my friend is into that..lol..and I'll let you know.
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02:21 AM
Arnjolt Member
Posts: 109 From: Milford, Michigan Registered: May 2003
So you're saying the Ecotec can safely go up to 700hp before having to change too much? Hmm... Okay, my new plan is to have a 650hp Ecotec in my Fiero.
Alcohol injection? It'll be like the Simpsons...
One for you, one for me <glug glug glug> one for you, one for me
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02:55 AM
Jun 21st, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Um, yeah, you kinda have to change alot for 700HP, like all of the engine internals, machine the head, get a custom ECM setup, etc.
700HP is the max before having to go to 8 injectors, new oil system, stand alone ECM, race fuel, etc. ---------------------- I don't know about that GM turbo kit making 500HP. The rods give out at just under 300HP. That kit would have to have alot else with it besides a bolt on turbo setup. I'd say no more than 200HP from a GM kit.
There is a supercharger coming from them soon. It's the same one from the Saturn Ion Redline. ---------------------- BIG NEWS:
From an insider source who has been reading up on this topic, the adaptor plates are on their way.
As soon as I check their fit, I am duplicating and selling them.
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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02:14 AM
Jun 23rd, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Bad news. The donor car (aka, my Fiero) is dead. It stopped working today. Either my gas gauge is faulty, and I have no fuel in my tank, or my ECM took a dump. I pulled a code ?51? last week, ECM or Prom error, or something like that.
Hopefully I can get that back on the road this week.
Fiero Ecotec Turbo #1 (FET-1, as I've designated it), will still proceed as scheduled, reguardless.
The pistons will hopefully be here by July 4th. They got off backorder today. Photo's will be posted asap.
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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03:54 AM
Jun 28th, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
And after that, I pondered what to do with my extra tranny that I don't need anymore.........
But it turned me into a ghost, because it doesn't like me. See? My face is all white. :P
The cover isn't done yet. The back 3 stripes aren't finished, and the logo isn't painted silver yet. Plus there's some minor touch-ups that are needed.
On a high note, my Fiero is up and running again. The fuel tank has issues, and 3 rocks were jammed in my right rear brake assembly (don't ask how, I dunno). It was squeaking like crazy, but it's all fixed and she's running smooth once again.
I did today, what I hope will be the last EVER Iron Duke oil change. Any oil I change from now on will hopefully be from an Ecotec instead.
Enjoy! Drool at will.
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 06-28-2004).]
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11:14 AM
PFF
System Bot
bryson Member
Posts: 737 From: Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA Registered: Sep 2002
Ok, I've cooled off a bit after being mad at my computer, and then tripping down the stairs and hurting my knee. I'm all cool now. The last time I posted on pennock's while I was angry, I almost got a (-) rating. ---------------------- Bryson!!! Good to see you posting on this topic again. Just as I promised, I got your video up on your Quad4 forum now.
Anyway, no, I'm not going to paint my car that color. But what inspired me to paint the motor that color was this car's paint job.
Shame on me, I forget who's car this is. Whoever owns this Fiero, please claim it. SUPERB JOB.
Basically, after long months of planning, I made up my mind, and wanted the motor to have the look of the Nissan SR20DET Red-top motors.
---------------------------- As far as how the car will look, it will be like this...
Imagine what you see here, (note the 88 front end) but all black paint, with graphite vinyl graphics, and the sail-panel frames graphite, and the rear decklid vents, and the side view mirrors... all graphite colored. It will stand out nice with the gloss black paint.
For the wheels (not pictured above) I'm going with Velox VX Scythes, in gunmetal finish. They look nice, and are much lighter than what is pictured in the B&W photo.
If I suddenly ditch the stealthy black idea, then yeah, I may paint the car that red/silver color.
FYI: I'd like to point out that I HAND ENGRAVED that Pontiac logo pictured above (sorry, I need to brag about it... it just looks so cool).
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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11:27 AM
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
This is what I originally planned to do with my engine cover. My interior will look red and black, and I thought the engine would look cool the same way.
*edit: I really need to shrink these pics...
No, I didn't powder coat it. I used "Metalcast" that paint from dupli-color that gives the annodized look. I did it with my "Fiero" 3rd brake light insert (from fierostore), and it looked really good (photo to come). ------------------------------- Now, the price for the conversion.........................
This is a tricky one...because of the way you have to set up the motor for 350HP, you may as well go to 500HP.
The limit of the stock motor (the "safe" limit) is 250HP. On nitrous, the race teams hit 283HP... but on turbo, many people have gone to 315HP on a stock motor, but this is with careful engine management, and also because turbo's are much gentler on motors that nitrous.
The stock crank is good to 500HP, but the rods need replacement at the 280 area. Pistons... 300HP. Remember, these aren't the absolute limits, but I always under-rate specs to increase safety. Savvy?
For my conversion, with adaptor plate, about $3,700.
Something to keep in mind... this vs. a 350V8... a brand new crate motor Ecotec is WAY cheaper than a crate motor Chevy Small Block. BUT, since the Ecotec is much newer than the 350, it's more expensive in junkyards (if you can even find them there at all).
The ecotec is more difficult (theoretically) to install too, simply because it's never been done. Though rumors float around that one has been done in an 84 S/E, and was supercharged (Vortech), no evidence proves such a claim. No photos, and the owner's e-mail address doesn't work.
For what most of you guys may want, a duke alternative, or a lighter motor with the same power as the GT's 2.8V6, the cost drops HEAVILY!!!!! Well, under $2,000 for a bone stock installation, dependent on what you can get a motor for.
On ebay, right now, there's an ecotec for $300. But then there have been ones for $1,500. And the thing is, they're rare, and few. My hope is, when the motor really takes flight in GM's world, they'll have dropped the price for the crate motor, and more wrecked Cavalier's and Grand Am's will show up in the scrapyards.
I'll post a complete list of a bone stock recipie, and a list for my recipie, so you can compare.
Heck, this motor may even have some Natuarally Aspirated potential in it. Thing is, no one has tried that area yet. Once they found that the motor responded so well to turbo's, they never looked back.
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 06-29-2004).]
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11:43 AM
Jun 30th, 2004
Primaris Member
Posts: 550 From: Oak Grove, KY USA Registered: Aug 2001
In fact, I have a cylinder head from an Ecotec Vue sitting at home in my garage. Saving it for motor number 2. Going to machine it to perfection, port/polish, and machine it for valves that are 1mm wider. Also put in stiffer springs, lighter retainers, and hella good cams.
If it doesn't get used for motor #2 (ie. Ecotec Fiero #2 might end up being a crate motor) then that head may end up on my motor. I'm going a little cheapo on the head that came with the motor, simply because I want to put the money elsewhere.
FYI, this motor is used in Saturn, Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saab, Vaulhall, and Opel. Opel designed it, but I think Lotus helped a tad with the valvetrain. The motor was originally designed in 93, but it has matured into a whole new beast since then.
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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02:06 AM
Jul 1st, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Pick up the current copy of HCI Magazine. (Hot Compacts and Imports)
It has LOTS of Ecotec related stuff... all of it in j-bodies and Ion's, but still, it's related to this project with the tech behind the motors.
Buy it and I guarrantee drooling will occur
Have a happy 4th of July Everyone!!!
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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01:04 PM
Jul 9th, 2004
Arnjolt Member
Posts: 109 From: Milford, Michigan Registered: May 2003
Sorry, it's still 4th of July in my head. You know us military guys. Patriotic to the very end, and we like vacations.
LOL, actually, I'm still waiting on the pistons. I have EVERY single part I need, except the pistons, which is the next part I need to continue.
Grrr.
------------------ PETTY OFFICER (no more airman!) Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L Ecotec Turbo (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. KIA by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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05:46 PM
Arnjolt Member
Posts: 109 From: Milford, Michigan Registered: May 2003
Originally posted by fieroturbo: I think Lotus helped a tad with the valvetrain.
Perhaps they helped with the original valvetrain, but the current valvetrain is the same roller follower setup used on Y2K+ Northstars, Vortec 4200's, etc.
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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11:46 PM
Jul 11th, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Any places you'd recommend on where to get the parts you've acquired for the ecotec?
Actually, ebay is a great source, if you have patience. Forged piston rods are always cheapest on ebay, along with turbo exhaust manifolds, and the turbo's themselves. In fact, I got my Motor and ECM/wiring harness off of Ebay.
With the turbos though, I don't recommend buying a used one from ebay, unless they specifically say the shaft has no wobble, and/or they have a warranty. Plus used turbos tend to develop cracks in the turbine housings. If there are such cracks in a T3 turbine housing, don't buy it. This can cause exhaust gas to bypass the turbine, because of the way the housings are designed (I can get a photo to better explain what I mean). This isn't the case with the T04/T4's. Not sure bout the T25's or T60's. ------------------------------- Besides ebay, General Motors actually makes ALOT of performance parts. That's why I said on page 1 of this topic (might have been pg 2) that this motor is the next small block chevy. When the OE Manufacturer turns around and actually shows aftermarket support for a motor, to the point where they even have a recipie book to make it pump out over 700HP, that's when I become an enthusiast. That's what I like so much about modern day General Motors. There's an acutal "car guy" (bob lutz) running the place, and amazing things are happening because of it. The Ecotec is 100% certified as the worlds quickest, and now the worlds fastest FWD 4 cylinder ever. ------------------------------- If you don't have the cash to follow GM's cookbook word-for-word, then the next best thing is mantapart.com. They don't list all of their Ecotec parts on their site yet (they're working on it), so e-mail them if you want something they don't have.
Also, for turbo stuff, exploitedracing.com is great too. They have good non-turbo related stuff too. Be forewarned though, these guys are really overworked, and express is not in their vocabulary, unless it's at the drag strip. *****One high point is this... their turbo manifolds are made of stainless steel, and have a lifetime warranty. Nuff said?
Hahn Racecraft just released a turbo kit, but it's in its infancy. I thought they were supposed to come out with a 4-2-1 turbo header with mandrel bends, but in the HCI magazine for this month, that wasn't the case. It was a log style similar to exploited's. So for now, a turbo kit from Hahn isn't the best choice. ----------------------------- That's what's really good for parts and such. jbody.org has a bunch of group purchases here and there, and new products always end up being announced there first, than anywhere else, so keep a good lookout there. ***
My hope is when I start selling the kit for the FieroEco's, that I'll sell general Ecotec parts as well, like forged pistons, etc., if it gains enough popularity.
But I don't want it to grow to big that I can't manage it. That's what happened with my PC business. I had to change my policy and deny service to any businesses (which really, really sucked). Strictly at home service only. -----------------------
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Perhaps they helped with the original valvetrain, but the current valvetrain is the same roller follower setup used on Y2K+ Northstars, Vortec 4200's, etc.
I think you're right Will. There are two "generations" of the Ecotec, or so it seems. The way to tell which is which, is that one has spark plug wires, and the other has coil-on-plug ignition. It's simple as that.
The earlier version (93?-99?) Lotus and Opel worked on, but the later one (2000-up), the one we all know so well in the US, was mostly Opel, with Saab and GM America getting their ideas put in.
So now it's become a motor that is used in Saab, Saturn, Opel, Vauxhall, Chevy, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and now I just discovered that Fiat uses it too (they're Italian).
Lotus would have used it in the Elise (most likely a 200HP boosted 2.0L version) since that's what Opel did with the Speedster (same chassis between the two), BUT, it seems Toyota and GM want to strenghten their alliance even more, so Lotus used the 1.8L VVTi 4 cylinder (190HP).
Might I add that is not my favorite motor. Far from it in fact. Sure, it has 190HP, but you need to rev to 7800RPMs to get it.
The 2.0L Supercharged Ecotec has 200HP, at a much lower RPM level.
Lemme just search here, (goodwrench.com).......................
Here it is. Of off GM's crate motor listing.
9.5:1 compression ratio 205 Horsepower @ 5600 RPM and 200 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM torque
Name a 200HP japaneese 4 banger that has that much torque.........well? Ha! Didn't think so.
I've got an easy week coming up, here at the Navy base, so I will get pics of the parts I just recently got. I got the 7.75lb flywheel, the 110dB blow-off valve, the 38mm Tial wastegate, and the 320cc injectors.
BUT STILL NO PISTONS
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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07:15 PM
Jul 18th, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Here's the TurboXS Type-R HFL Blow off valve... 110dB @ 10psi (LOUD). And these tags here need no explanation.......
Here's the RK Sport underdrive pulley. I think it's 20% smaller, can't recall. And here's the Holley In-line Fuel pump, the RC 320cc fuel injectors, and the Tial 38mm external wastegate.
And here's the 7.75lb flywheel. Yes, 7.75lbs. Stock is 26lbs. Yep, big difference. The motor will shoot right through that rev limiter.
If you guys look closely at the flywheel, you'll see this. The Indy logo. This motor was made for Fieros. No doubt.
Enjoy, and drool away!!!
As soon as I get the pistons, which I hope will be soon, I'll post the pics.
Later!!!
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 07-18-2004).]
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09:16 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Also thought I'd throw in a pic of the Fiero parts hauler, AKA, my 94 S-10 4.3 V6 Vortec. And yes...... it has a spoiler......hehe.
And for you guys keeping track, yes, I did shrink the pics of the head cover, for your viewing pleasure.
And I also fixed the broken picture links on pages 1-4. I changed servers this month, and everying is on fieroturbo.suprememotorsports.com or photos.suprememotorsports.com. If you guys borrowed pics from me for use on other posts, update your links.
Later
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 07-18-2004).]
Safari, Omniweb, and IE can't open your pages@ fieroturbo.suprememotorsports.com , photos.suprememotorsports.com. and suprememotorsports.com/index2.html seems to still be embryonic. I'll check back later
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10:15 PM
Jul 19th, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Actually, there aren't any pages on fieroturbo.sup.... or photos.sup.....
Those are merely so I can link photos to things, like pennocks.
I can't link to, for example, -www.suprememotorsports.com/photos/car1.jpg- for security reasons, but I can do -www.photos.suprememotorsports.com/car1.jpg-
It's the way the server is set up, but it works good despite that minor pinch.
And index 2 was just recently added BTW. Sorry about that flaw.
Do you have the latest version of IE? Try netscape as well. I don't know about those other two.
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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03:45 PM
Maetrix66 Member
Posts: 621 From: Hartland, ME, USA Registered: Nov 2002
Yes, Maine seems to have loud blow-off valves. All the WRX's and Lancers here on the base have very loud BOV's.
Good news. For those of you keeping track on the issue of finding a headgasket for this puppy.... one that isn't copper, the search is over. I tracked down a place that sells Cometic "Multi-layer Steel" Ecotec headgaskets.
For those of you who know anything about Supras with HKS's entire catalog on them, MLS holds to 30 psi, can be applied DRY, and doesn't leak like copper gaskets do. Plus you don't need to retourque the heads either.
I also got new rod bearings. I kinda need them acutally. Mine aren't bad, but the rods are the weak link in Ecotecs.
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
A turbo bypass valve will keep your compressor spooled slightly better than a blow-off valve. They recover faster after shifts, and are probably easier on the bearings, dumping the compressed air back into the inlet (recycled), rather than compressing fresh (atmospheric) air and dumping it back to atmosphere, wasted energy, causing one form of lag (or drag on the compressor). which is more important, being fast or sounding fast? .02 Norm
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01:24 AM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
A turbo bypass valve will keep your compressor spooled slightly better than a blow-off valve. They recover faster after shifts, and are probably easier on the bearings, dumping the compressed air back into the inlet (recycled), rather than compressing fresh (atmospheric) air and dumping it back to atmosphere, wasted energy, causing one form of lag (or drag on the compressor). which is more important, being fast or sounding fast? .02 Norm
Very good point. This is what I like about VW/Audi and Saab. I believe they all use bypass valves (good Bosch units too).
Thing is, I want to add in a little lag. Lag=traction. I'm not going with really wide rear tires (and they're street tires for that matter), AND the lighter weight of the Ecotec compared to a 2.5 duke is going to reduce traction on the holeshot. So much less weight to the point that the 46/54 weight balance, or whatever the heck it is stock in an 88 2.5 5-speed, will become 49/51, or even 50/50. Although off the start traction will suffer, the handling will be impecable. I care just a bit more about how the car hugs the turns, than how it kisses the starting line. The Ecotec's block (not the whole motor) weighs about 69lbs, whereas the duke, I believe weighs 128lbs, if I'm not mistaken. The duke might be more than that.
I'd rather sound intimidating with the blow-off valve than have that extra punch. I won't run it at full power all the time, only on weekends. The cops here are vicious, and my speed craze must be dealt with at the drag strip.
As far as wear and tear on the shaft bearing, I could care less. Destroying that gives me a reason to get a better turbo
That's how I look at cars. I like it when stuff breaks, gives out, wears out, etc..... it gives me a reason to upgrade it. Like my duke. It's buring like a quart of oil every 3 months, code 51's are a common thing (ECM), and it looks ugly. So, I'm swaping in a better motor.
Makes sense, right?
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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03:53 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Just my two cents but I think your flywheel is way to light. Yes it will rev up fast but it will also bog down very fast as you let out the clutch. All that mass is what gets the car rolling. I love the valve covers, great job.
Just my two cents but I think your flywheel is way to light. Yes it will rev up fast but it will also bog down very fast as you let out the clutch. All that mass is what gets the car rolling.
That'll just inspire him to acquire a light touch and a little bit of finesse with the throttle and clutch.
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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08:40 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14226 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
A turbo bypass valve will keep your compressor spooled slightly better than a blow-off valve. They recover faster after shifts, and are probably easier on the bearings, dumping the compressed air back into the inlet (recycled), rather than compressing fresh (atmospheric) air and dumping it back to atmosphere, wasted energy, causing one form of lag (or drag on the compressor).
when the bypass valve dumps it back to the compressor inlet, it goes back to atmospheric pressure anyway, and carries with it the extra heat it acquired due to compressor inefficiency, which then gets pumped back into the system. I'd rather start with ambient air than pre-heated ambient air. Production turbo systems use bypass valves so that an Audi doesn't undignify itself by going "ptshhht" every time the driver shifts or lifts off the throttle
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 07-20-2004).]
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08:44 AM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Just my two cents but I think your flywheel is way to light. Yes it will rev up fast but it will also bog down very fast as you let out the clutch. All that mass is what gets the car rolling. I love the valve covers, great job.
Turbo motors are a different animal. In an N/A car, light flywheels are a nono. In fact, in an automatic tranny setup, you want a heavy flexplate. It improves the launches (topic for another time).
But yeah, it may seem too light, but the idea is to get up to the redline ASAP. There's more exhaust gas up there, and this turbo, with this motor, runs at peak effeciency at 7000-7500RPM. Plus, with the lag from the turbo, the throttle response will be less as well, and the lighter flywheel can compensate for that. ------------ And yes, I will make a recipie of my project. It will go on my website.
I'll also post my concept idea on the site for a Supercharged 2.4L VVT Ecotec with a 4T65-E Automatic in an 84 Fiero Indy. I'm trying to get shipping quotes for that $600 Indy in CA, but all the quotes from CA to PA are coming in at $850+ which is more than the cost of the car. Anyone know of an Indy for sale on the east coast?
BTW, if I do build that Indy, I may not keep it. Simply building it to say that it can be done with that configuration, bring it to a few shows, win some trophys, and then sell it off for the right price and it will get that head cover pictured above too. The paint matches the Indy interior.
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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07:27 PM
Jul 21st, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
I slashed the "S" myself believe it or not. ------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 07-21-2004).]
and it will get that head cover pictured above too. The paint matches the Indy interior.
