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Trinten's SBC/F23 build - The work has begun! by Trinten
Started on: 08-17-2009 10:48 PM
Replies: 490 (22472 views)
Last post by: Trinten on 05-26-2020 09:49 PM
fieroguru
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Report this Post03-27-2020 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

And just get the block sleeved out to 4.125"... then it'll be 6,345 cc's with the 92mm crank... Voila! The cam gets smaller.



I like the idea of sleeving the block to fix the cam issue!

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 03-27-2020).]

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ericjon262
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Report this Post03-27-2020 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

And just get the block sleeved out to 4.125"... then it'll be 6,345 cc's with the 92mm crank... Voila! The cam gets smaller.



Somehow I missed this, but I agree, probably the best way to solve your cam problem. don't worry, we can spend money you probably don't have too! lol!

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http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Trinten
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Report this Post03-28-2020 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't see it as a cam problem yet.

The cam was suggested by CompCams after telling them all the other components and ultimate HP/TQ goals. Mike also agrees that it'll be a little too aggressive, but not un-tunable or un-streetable.

I actually budgeted for this entire project, including the expect things to take twice as long and cost at least twice as much. lol.

The only "unkonwn" is the total cost of Labor. I pay as we go. Mike never asks me for money, I just go over there and hand him an amount, and I track it on a spreadsheet. He's tracking his hours. We'll settle up when it's over.

The machine shop called me yesterday, block checks out on the magnaflux, line bore was spot on. They did find two low spots on the deck, they said it should take no more than 0.005 to fix it, and that it won't cause any PTV issues.

They said they are "a little behind" on the heads, but I'm not in any rush at this point.

Speaking of crazy stuff, Engine Masters took a junkyard 5.3, all stock except intake (and I think injectors?) put 118 octane and twin turbos on it... and gradually kept ramping up the boost to the point of diminishing returns. They managed to push 29.2 pounds of boost, and turned out 1500 HP and 1430 torque! And the engine didn't blow up.... they just reached the end of the MAP sensor range. They did admit that pushing the engine that hard, they had no idea if it would last for a season, a day, or a single pass. Still insane!

The reason I bring it up is that it gives me a lot of comfort to know that what I'll be getting is going to be about as bullet proof as an engine can get.

OH! Mike also suggested that we get another F23, and mount it and my SBC onto the cradle I had it on... basically offer a "drop in" SBC setup. Think there would be a market for it? I told him it would likely be too rich for the average Fiero owner, unless someone like Troyboy or Madcurl were interested. lol
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Will
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Report this Post03-31-2020 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Speaking of crazy stuff, Engine Masters took a junkyard 5.3, all stock except intake (and I think injectors?) put 118 octane and twin turbos on it... and gradually kept ramping up the boost to the point of diminishing returns. They managed to push 29.2 pounds of boost, and turned out 1500 HP and 1430 torque! And the engine didn't blow up.... they just reached the end of the MAP sensor range. They did admit that pushing the engine that hard, they had no idea if it would last for a season, a day, or a single pass. Still insane!


That's actually been done a bunch of times. Not sure who did the first one, but they just said "Let's find a junkyard 5.3 and see what it takes to fold the rods up!" They filed the ring gaps out 0.010, then put it back together with intake/heads/cam & turbos, but still the stock shortblock. It hit 26 psi before it blew the spark out and made 1200 HP. Then they realized they'd grabbed a 4.8 by mistake. That was an iron block engine.

Lots of copy-cats then followed suit with different configurations. The iron blocks are all very strong, but the aluminum blocks didn't start out as strong, but have improved significantly over the production life of the design.

The big factor is the 116+ octane fuel. Amazings combinations will live without detonation, but nothing will live with it. Even a diesel engine dies if you detonate gasoline in it.
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Trinten
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Report this Post03-31-2020 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes! That was the same guy! Well, he was a guest on the show and told the story about the 4.8. It was his 5.3 they were dialing up. I don't remember what magazine he said he worked from.

I got a call from the engine shop today, they are finished with the block, and plan on finishing up the heads sometime tomorrow. Of course, North Carolina declared "Shelter in place" starting today, and Mike's job is an essential-to-society job, so they are ULTRA serious about him not visiting family/friends or having company over.

The good news is, he works close to the shop, so he can still pick things up on his way home and work on the final assembly, I just wish I could be there to gopher and learn!

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Trinten
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Report this Post04-03-2020 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alright, the machine shop called yesterday, everything is ready to be picked up. Mike wanted to pick it up today so he could work on assembly this weekend, but his day job had some emergencies come up, so he was looking at a 12 hour day.

So pickup is slated for Monday. Here's all I had them do (I don't think I listed it anywhere yet)

Hot tank the block and heads, clean all bolt holes/threads
Magnaflux the block
Check the line bore (it was perfect)
Check the deck of the block and heads (minor issues on both)
Install cam bearings
Balance the rotating assembly (they also said they could fit and file the piston rings for Mike, he said that was a time saver for him, and tedious, so they did that)
3-angle valve job
Light porting/polishing to clean up any casting imperfections
Install all the new hardware into the heads

I feel like I'm forgetting something, but Mike and I crossed a few things off my original list that went to the shop... when everything comes back, if I did miss something, I'll edit this post appropriately (or take off the fact that I felt like I missed anything).

I'm really excited about this!

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Will
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Report this Post04-06-2020 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Always a good feeling when the torque wrenches come out
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Trinten
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Report this Post04-20-2020 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Okay! Pretty excited. Mike started putting together the engine. As he is uber professional, and I am uber paranoid, he started by checking all of the work the engine shop did, and then start checking tolerances/clearances. This meant things were going to gether and coming back apart a few different times.

He is happy with everything he's found so far. He said the ring gap the shop put on was perfect, it was gapped to where he would have put it if it were his car.

Piston to valve clearance is excellent, no concerns there, even after the machining that was needed.

Here are the pictures he sent me. Oddly, only two came through at "full size", the others came through already greatly reduced in size. Camera phones and MMS are strange.

Some pictures of the bare block!






Here is a pic of the new-old-stock crank I got!




My spiffy new camshaft and spec sheet.





A couple candy shot ofa piston and rod





The coated bearing




Now for pics with things installed at different points!

Some pics of the main caps being fitted (ARP studs, of course), and then the crankshaft installed.










A close up of the cylinders






Some pictures of the block with the rotating assembly fully in there.










Some pics of the heads, valve springs, and the head on the block.








Because of the COVID lockdown, I mailed Mike the few things I still had around the house for the engine. The oil pickup tube, this bolt on retainer for the oil pickup tube (the two bolt style). The KaTech chain, the new GM Performance Sprocket, and the chain dampner.

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 04-20-2020).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post04-24-2020 07:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That looks awesome Vince!
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Trinten
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Report this Post04-24-2020 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks man!

How are things going with your track Fiero? Are you still doing class racing?

I'm pretty excited about this.

Once this is done, every performance upgrade on my list (outside of consumables) should be checked off.

Then... it's on to revising plans on the body work.
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Trinten
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Report this Post05-26-2020 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As shelter in place restrictions have eased up, I was able to head over to Mike's on the 16th.

He was installing the trunnion upgrade in my rockers when I got there. The upgrade is "shoulderless" trunnions (apparently stock trunnions have these little shoulders that can break from extreme forces). It also has captive rollers, which is one of the pieces that can pop out of whack and cause all sorts of headaches!

The bottom end is all torqued down. The upper end is all loosely bolted together for fitment checks and what not.

Also, the cam bolts are not ARP! GASP! I could have sworn I bought ARP cam bolts... maybe this is one of those things that Mike talked me out of. Or I didn't think about it. Or because this is a loose bolt-together, Mike hasn't installed them yet. Hmmm...

Anyhow! In addition to the pictures below, Mike also did some work on things for under the frunk, including mocking up the water/ice box for the intercooler.

The rockers with the new trunnions installed, rockers loosely bolted into place.




My spiffy Ka-Tech chain installed, with the new chain damper to prevent 'wrap around'.




The Oil Pickup Tube, with the addition bracing hold down.






Oh yeah, and I got my 1500cc injectors! They showed up with the flowchart. It seems that the company had a little issue replacing the 'cyan' laser printer toner! lol






Things left to buy for the engine:
Intake
Throttle body
-8 AN fuel rails
Heat exchanger for the A2W intercooler
Water pump for the same
Pushrods (waiting on confirmation of length from Mike, Brian Tooley Racing makes some nice one piece chromoly ones that I'll get)

And this really awesome setup from FueLabs. Great pre-sales support. I told them what I was running, what my max demands were going to be, etc. They were really cool, wrote back and recommended a pre-pump filter, a pump, a post-pump filter, and a damn spiffy electronic fuel pressure regulator that can slow the pump down when it doesn't need the demand, helping reduce wear on the pump.

I ran their recommendations past the fuel injector company, to make sure it would meet their standards (Especially around filtering, I was concerned it would be a choke point with E85), and got their thumbs up, too. They said the surface area of the outlets on the filters would definitely allow enough through.
So that being said, here's the fuel setup:

FUELAB 828 Series Inline Fuel Filters 82823-1
FUELAB Prodigy Fuel Pumps 42401-1
FUELAB 818 Series Inline Fuel Filters 81833-1
FUELAB 529 Series Electronic Fuel Pressure Regulators 52902-1

Yes, it's a little pricey, but I would rather have that then worry about wrecking an engine from an abrupt lean condition!

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