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Northstar rebuild: Will style by Will
Started on: 12-29-2003 09:00 PM
Replies: 870 (63475 views)
Last post by: Rickady88GT on 12-02-2018 11:13 PM
Will
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Report this Post09-05-2007 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The pin diameter does not. Rod length does. With a 5.943 rod and 3.307 stroke, the Northstar already has a reasonably good rod/stroke ratio (1.8:1).

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Nashco
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Report this Post01-25-2008 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You still alive Will?

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Will
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Report this Post01-25-2008 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

11.5 pistons are done and coated. Don't know what the delay was.

Will have weights Monday and be contuing the balance math effort afterward.

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Nashco
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Report this Post02-22-2008 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just stopping by for my monthly checkup!

Bryce

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Will
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Report this Post02-22-2008 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Have pics of the pistons. They came out slightly heavier than the flat tops.
CP pins are actually about 7 g heavier than stock pins, which was surprising.
I'm deciding if that's worth using stock pins (need to talk to Alan Johnson about how fast I can spin with those). If I use the stock pins, I'll send the CP's back (finally a little financial relief).
I haven't had time to go through the balancing math to reconcile what I think with what the balancer says he reads, so I'm still stalled at that gate.
Just finished the midterm in my Systems class, so I might be able to look at that this weekend... or not, I've got about a billion other things demanding my time also.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 02-22-2008).]

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Nashco
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Report this Post03-20-2008 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Any good numbers get crunched yet?

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Will
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Report this Post03-20-2008 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I crunched numbers. I've been trying to get in touch with the crank shop. I've left a phone message, but I need to call during working hours tomorrow.

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gunslinger
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Report this Post07-10-2008 01:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gunslingerSend a Private Message to gunslingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It has been 10 pages long and 5years later and this engine is not done rebuilding as yet,all I am reading is just a bunch of technical jargon associated with reinventing the wheel.

When are we going to see some result of all this super N*?

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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post07-10-2008 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

yea.. thats a LONG time to rebuild an engine lol, i hope this thing puts out over 1k HP when its done, else im not sure it would have been worth the time...

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Will
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Report this Post07-11-2008 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hehe...

It's slow going. I have a lot more going on in my life than an engine right now. I've got everything but the crank. The crank is at the balance shop and I'm working through things with the shop owner. He's never done this before the way I want it done, so it's going to have to be a careful process.

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Nashco
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Report this Post07-11-2008 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I can't knock you Will, I've been doing my N* conversion for almost as long as your engine rebuild has been going on. For the record, if we were racing, you'd be winning.

Bryce

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Nashco
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Report this Post08-06-2008 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Any update on the fancy crank balancing act?

Bryce

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Will
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Report this Post08-06-2008 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I gave the shop the data to take the first cut, but they have email issues. I was going to call back this morning but I got sucked into a morning meeting that turned into an all day meeting. I should have time tomorrow.

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Will
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Report this Post08-21-2008 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The shop was delayed due to the tropical storm...

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Will
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Report this Post09-17-2008 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Got the info back from the first cut... I calc'd what the second cut should be and will try to get that info to the shop tomorrow.

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Nashco
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Report this Post10-22-2008 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Any update?

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Will
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Report this Post10-22-2008 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Progress is slow but happening.

2nd cut has been made.

Crank will be shot blasted and journals will be cut today or tomorrow.

Straightening out a slight discrepancy in component weights before the final balance.

When it's done, you'll hear me hoot 'n holler.

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Report this Post10-22-2008 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Progress is slow but happening.

2nd cut has been made.

Crank will be shot blasted and journals will be cut today or tomorrow.

Straightening out a slight discrepancy in component weights before the final balance.

When it's done, you'll hear me hoot 'n holler.


Post a vid of it running with sound will suffice ..you can hoot an holler on the vid too

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Will
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Report this Post10-22-2008 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've been musing about anodizing the block. I don't think it's appropriate to try to do it myself, though. Anybody know a shop that can handle a piece that large?

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KurtAKX
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Report this Post10-22-2008 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

I've been musing about anodizing the block. I don't think it's appropriate to try to do it myself, though. Anybody know a shop that can handle a piece that large?


What's the value add there?

If you're genuinely worried about corrosion, there are alternatives to anodizing like the Sanchem Safegard CC 6100. The stuff will add a mil-spec corrosion resistance to exposed aluminum parts on vehicles like HMVees. It goes on as a multi-step process after you clean the block with boat pontoon cleaner or other similar mild acid wash with a pH of about 3.

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Will
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Report this Post10-22-2008 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Both corrosion and appearance.
I don't want it to be some unseemly color, but I don't want it to look like old weathered aluminum that's had 15 years of exposure to road grime either.

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Will
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Report this Post10-23-2008 09:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the tip... I looked the stuff up and it looks interesting...

http://www.sanchem.com/safegard_cc_types.html

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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post10-23-2008 02:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I presume you have considered the Alodine chromate conversion coating process as well. It is well proven and easy to apply even in a small shop.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-23-2008).]

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Will
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Report this Post11-07-2008 11:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Crank's done and on the way.

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Report this Post11-08-2008 09:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanClick Here to Email AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will take a look at the products from this company. They heave products for internal and external.

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/index.htm

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Report this Post11-10-2008 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Crank's done and on the way.


So...what did the final before/after weight come out to? MOI? Dare I ask what you ended up paying for all that fancy balancing? I figured you'd post the details up once you got it done...perhaps you're waiting to get your hands on it, I wouldn't blame you, especially considering you're having the crank shipped.

Bryce

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Will
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Report this Post11-11-2008 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I don't have my notes in front of me, but the shop took all the data I wanted. They couldn't measure MOI, so I'll have to be contented with calculating a delta MOI.

Tilton claims that a Chevy flexplate and Chevy crankshaft have the same MOI, so a modest reduction in MOI on a crankshaft isn't such a big deal. However, I wanted to get the shortblock basically as built as it can be so I never have to tear it down to try anything new.

The end product that I intend will be a spreadsheet capable of calculating the correct cut depth a priori from a few (or several) measurements on the crankshaft (start angle, stop angle, thickness and outside radius of counterweights; angular location, diameter & depth of pre-existing balance holes; imbalance of initial spin; etc.). In theory, a shop that knew how to do that could offer a lathe trimmed balance service for only half again as much as a conventional balance job. I might even be able to get pretty close using just the change in bobweight instead of an initial spin...


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Will
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Report this Post11-18-2008 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

As of Saturday I have all my parts back. I picked up the block, previous ruined crank, homemade torque plate, sample cylinder heads (torqued to the block for align honing) and both new sets of pistons on Friday. Fedex dropped the crank off on Saturday.

I am not happy about how the crank was packed. It was in a plastic bag in a great big box... and that was it. The snout of the crank had punched a hole through the box, the teeth of the trigger wheel had punched through the bag, etc. I have not yet had the oppotunity to clean the cosmoline off of it to check the journals, although they did look ok through the cosmoline. <sigh>

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Fiero STS
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Report this Post11-18-2008 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSClick Here to Email Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hope the crankshaft is OK. I have been watching your build thread for quite some time. I am interested to see how this all comes together. Also will be nice to see if all of your improvements yield a substantial increase in net horsepower and longevity. Your next challenge will be to find a transmission with the proper gearing and torque capacity to handle your new engine parameters.

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Will
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Report this Post11-18-2008 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I hope it's ok, too

For now I'll continue to use the modified V6 flywheel and Spec stage III. I'll also continue using the 282 I just built with 2.19 2nd and 1.03 4th. I'm just going to switch it over to the 3.94 final. Eventual switch to a Tilton 2 disc setup will take most of the inertial shock loading out of the system and free up about 50 dynamic HP in 1st gear. If I ever blow that up, I've got a 284 on the shelf.

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Report this Post11-18-2008 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoinageClick Here to visit Coinage's HomePageClick Here to Email CoinageSend a Private Message to CoinageEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Im selling my QM twin disk setup with button flywheel... too bad its for the 4sp

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Will
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Report this Post11-18-2008 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I was planning to build a button flywheel anyway.

I also don't know enough about the differences in clearances between the 282 bellhousing and the Muncie bellhousing... I'm pretty sure I can pack a Tilton setup into a 282 bellhousing, but it ends up TIGHT.

How long have you been selling that?

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Coinage
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Report this Post11-18-2008 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoinageClick Here to visit Coinage's HomePageClick Here to Email CoinageSend a Private Message to CoinageEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I love the setup...wish I could keep it, because its so badass/rare. What really sucks is that more likely than not,nobody is going to pay what it is worth.

I tried selling it once before awhile back. No bites then, and no bites now. ugh.

Awesome build by the way!

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

Sucks triple didnt work out.

[This message has been edited by Coinage (edited 11-18-2008).]

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Will
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Report this Post11-19-2008 07:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'll take it under advisement. Send me an email at my profile address with the QM part numbers. I need to look up their design drawings. Got a closer pic of the flywheel? Did you make it yourself?

With Tilton components, the stack height of a triple disk sintered iron clutch is the same as a double disk cerametallic or organic... not that the triple is even remotely necessary, as the two disk cerametallic with a soft spring was rated for 550 ftlbs. The triple would just be harder to modulate than the double.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-19-2008).]

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Coinage
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Report this Post11-19-2008 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoinageClick Here to visit Coinage's HomePageClick Here to Email CoinageSend a Private Message to CoinageEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I need to get so more pictures at some point, its on the motor/tranny right now so it will be a few days until I can yank it apart. Anything in particular you wanted pictures of? Flywheel is a QM unit as well.

With the QM unit, the stack height is a good bit different from a twin to triple. I don't recall exactly how much, but with the twin, I use a different housing and just take a floater out and the center disk.

email sent.
Matt

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Will
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Report this Post11-20-2008 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Coinage:

With the QM unit, the stack height is a good bit different from a twin to triple. I don't recall exactly how much, but with the twin, I use a different housing and just take a floater out and the center disk.


Can you clarify that? Thanks.

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Will
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Report this Post12-04-2008 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've got all the parts to put the short block together now. I'm probably not going to have time until early next year.

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Will
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Report this Post02-23-2009 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Can this be moved over to "The Construction Zone"?

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Nashco
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Report this Post02-24-2009 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Can this be moved over to "The Construction Zone"?


Only if you post pictures of you assembling the engine.

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Will
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Report this Post02-25-2009 09:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

We'll see about that. I may just turn all the parts into modern art.

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