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88 Coupe 4.9 Swap Thread by josef644
Started on: 08-26-2009 06:29 PM
Replies: 681 (19194 views)
Last post by: Reallybig on 11-20-2015 08:28 PM
Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post11-18-2009 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I don't know what to tell you exactly. Just line up the injectors with the holes in the intake manifold and press the rail down. Then add the bolts and torque to spec. There is no trick to it really. For me its always gone in quite a bit easier then it comes out. Almost too easy. I replaced my o-rings during the rebuild so I never had the joy of working with old ones. Hope this is somewhat helpful Joe.

EDIT: Page 6 is mine!!!
Your thread is already 2 pages longer then mine. The funny thing is I've been working on mine for almost 2 years.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 11-18-2009).]

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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post11-19-2009 09:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

install as one part - add some 3 in 1 oil to the o-rings to aid in them going into the holes (on both the manifold and fuel rail). Just set the rail on top of the manifold, line up the injectors and press down.

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josef644
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Report this Post11-19-2009 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well one opened up, one refused. I am soaking the two ends with some PB blaster to see if it will free it up.

7 Working ,
1 Deceased still

I just ordered the little Ultrasonic Cleaner from Geeks.com.

Whats the best cleaning stuff to use in there?

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-19-2009).]

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fierocarparts
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Report this Post11-19-2009 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Joe,
I thought you took this out of a running driving car.

------------------
When life gives you lemons, thank them for the Fiero.

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josef644
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Report this Post11-19-2009 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierocarparts:

Joe,
I thought you took this out of a running driving car.



No, I purchase the 91 Deville with a 85K 93 engine, and transmission. The 93 was bolted in the 91. Wiring was started. They quit working on it when the 91's round transmission connecrtor would not plug into the 4T60E. She sat dormant for 6-8 months before I purchased it in early April.
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-19-2009).]

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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post11-20-2009 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

I just ordered the little Ultrasonic Cleaner from Geeks.com.

Whats the best cleaning stuff to use in there?



Water, hot is better - even better if the cleaner you bought has a heater. There is a special soap to use in the cleaner, andy local place that sells/services these should have it.

NEVER use anything that is flamable in an utrasonic cleaner.

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josef644
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Report this Post11-20-2009 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Whats a good amount time to leave it in the cleaner M_M?

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30+mpg
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Report this Post11-20-2009 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 30+mpgClick Here to Email 30+mpgSend a Private Message to 30+mpgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:....
Assemble 'Patented" injector checker

...


"+" for you for taking an idea and improving upon it.

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josef644
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Report this Post11-20-2009 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 30+mpg:


"+" for you for taking an idea and improving upon it.


Well, I just mod-i-fied your idea a bit. But thanks
Joe

I just got my injector kit in the mail from Mr Injector, $24.00 more in the kitty.

My Untrasonic cleaner will be here Tuesday. I am gonna run them all threw a bit before I put them back togeather. I have sprayed PB blaster in the top and bottom holes of all eight injectors. Mr Injector's recommendation to use WD 40 or something to prevent and rust. I figured it wouldn' hurt to use the 'Blaster'

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-21-2009).]

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johnsop1
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Report this Post11-21-2009 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnsop1Click Here to Email johnsop1Send a Private Message to johnsop1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It looks like I am always about three steps behind you Joe. I am planning to turn the key on my 4.9 for the first time tomorrow.

Wish me luck.

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josef644
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Report this Post11-22-2009 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by johnsop1:

It looks like I am always about three steps behind you Joe. I am planning to turn the key on my 4.9 for the first time tomorrow.

Wish me luck.


Well congradulations, and 'Good Luck' to you myfriend. May your injectors be un-clogged, and your oil prressure be perfect.

Do yourself a favor and make sure you have oil in the engine. For some reason I checked mine just before I turned it over. 5 low.

Let us know what happens
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 01-04-2010).]

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josef644
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Report this Post11-22-2009 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I cut wire 'G' on the AC actuator today and ran two wires out to the accumulator. I installed a compressor cycling switch and wired this all togeather. Back in the cabin I connected the two new wires to the ends of wire 'G' . I now have a low pressure / compressor cycling switch in the line as a Fiero V6 would have that uses the same HR6 compressor. I will add a high pressure cut off switch to the high side port under the accumulator before I add R134A.

Thanks to fierocarparts for the donated factory connector and switch. Steve, You Da Man.

I had added a grounding eye and connected it to the compressor control relay, and the fuel pump relay. But I have changed my mind and will run these two wires insde the cabin and ground them to the ECM ground wires. It has it's own grounding eye. This way it will clean up some of the wires inside the engine bay. Also all the wires running to the FP and AC relay's will be togeather and no wires leaving that part of the looming. See the FP relay in the picture below. It will work out much better.

After seeing this picture from Mickey_Moose I have decided to redo some of my harness to attempt to correct some of my 'rats nest' on the engine.
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:




I am sure I will not get it to look that nice, but better than what I now have. Thanks MIckey_Moose for the inspiration.
Thats all today

Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-22-2009).]

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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post11-23-2009 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

Whats a good amount time to leave it in the cleaner M_M?


I usually run it for about 3 hours at about 80°C - maybe over kill, but that is what I have done and had no issues ( 3 sets of 2.8, 4 sets of 4.9 and 2 sets of the Ford 19lbs injectors - used in a couple of 4.9's). I then blew air through the injectors (activated) both ways.

 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:
After seeing this picture from Mickey_Moose I have decided to redo some of my harness to attempt to correct some of my 'rats nest' on the engine.
I am sure I will not get it to look that nice, but better than what I now have. Thanks MIckey_Moose for the inspiration.
Thats all today

Joe


np

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 11-23-2009).]

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josef644
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Report this Post11-23-2009 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks M_M, I am in your debt again
Joe

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Report this Post11-24-2009 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnsop1Click Here to Email johnsop1Send a Private Message to johnsop1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote

Well congradulations, and 'Good Luck' to you myfriend. My your injectors be un-clogged, and your oil prressure be perfect.

Do yourself a favor and make sure you have oil in the engine. For some reason I checked mine just before I turned it over. 5 low.

Let us know what happens
Joe


That was good advice about the oil. My oil pan was dry.

I don't have my fuel lines connected yet, but wanted to see if the starter would at least crank over the motor. I disconnected the fuel pump relay so that fuel wouldn't squirt all over the engine compartment and burn down the garage. Then I hit the key and the motor cranked smoothly, best of all the accessory belt didn't fly off. So far so good.

I couldn't resist. I poured a little gas down the throttle body and then hit the key. It lit right up!

I am a happy man. The ignition works, now it's time to finish the fuel system.

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josef644
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Report this Post11-24-2009 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by johnsop1:


That was good advice about the oil. My oil pan was dry.

I don't have my fuel lines connected yet, but wanted to see if the starter would at least crank over the motor. I disconnected the fuel pump relay so that fuel wouldn't squirt all over the engine compartment and burn down the garage. Then I hit the key and the motor cranked smoothly, best of all the accessory belt didn't fly off. So far so good.

I couldn't resist. I poured a little gas down the throttle body and then hit the key. It lit right up!

I am a happy man. The ignition works, now it's time to finish the fuel system.


Big smile too I'll bet. I was just there a few days ago. I'm still grinnin!!!!!!!!!

I am at a stand still until I can get all 8 injectors to fire. One is still refusing to squirt. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that is supposed to be here tomorrow. If that doesn't work I will have to wait untill Christmas presents for the grandchildren is finished before I can play with the budget . I am gonna start on the exhaust I think next week, as I have most of that stuff here now. We will have grandchildren here untill Sunday afternoon. No playtime allowed.

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Report this Post11-25-2009 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Got my Ultrasonice cleaner off of the Fedex truck today. I have the injector in there now. It only runs for three min's at a time, so I have to keep turning it on. I am gonna run it threw a hour and a half befor I try to see if it will squirt tomorrow sometime. I have had some PB Blaster in bithn ends for the past few days.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-25-2009).]

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Report this Post11-25-2009 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You can't override the 3 minute timer? You might be able to bypass it. Dont' mind me. I modify everything.

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Report this Post11-25-2009 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just a thought before you waste too much time on the injector - check it with an ohm meter. Put the meter across the 2 pins - should be low resistance, if not the coil is bad.

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josef644
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Report this Post11-25-2009 07:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Just a thought before you waste too much time on the injector - check it with an ohm meter. Put the meter across the 2 pins - should be low resistance, if not the coil is bad.


Great idea. Ill do it right now and get back to you.

Set on 200K it measured 00.0
A good one measured 00.0,
On scale 200
Bad one 16.3
Good one 16.4
I checked three on the 200 scale from the 'good' pile. They all measure 16.XX
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:

You can't override the 3 minute timer? You might be able to bypass it. Dont' mind me. I modify everything.


I'll just let it be I think. I have it here in my computer room. When it kicks off I'll just push the on button again.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-26-2009).]

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josef644
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Report this Post11-26-2009 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

# 8 is clear today. I don't know if it was the ultrasonic cleaning in 180* water for an hour and a half, or the PB Blaster in the two ends for three days. I have a feeling that it was the PB Blaster, as the liquid that came out first was the orange color of PB Blaster. I will do a final check of all 8 injectors before I assemble them back on the rails for installation.

I will not be able to put these back in the car untill Tuesday, as we have company here for Thanksgiving. Orders from the "BOSS"

Cathy and I want to wish a 'Happy Thanksgiving Day' to all our PFF friends and family. May your troubles be few and you joys be many.
Joe Crawford
Texas

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josef644
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Report this Post11-29-2009 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I retested all 8 injectors yesterday before I had to go to work. Two did not fire. I will be doing them untrasonic on all of these un processed injectors today at work. I have had PB Blaster on them since yesterday morning
Joe

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Report this Post11-29-2009 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rdeanClick Here to Email rdeanSend a Private Message to rdeanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I bought a rebuilt set of injectors locally so I have some extra if you want them.
Finally got all the issues here covered and enjoyed a weekend of just smiling and cruising.

Ray

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Report this Post11-29-2009 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rdean:

I bought a rebuilt set of injectors locally so I have some extra if you want them.
Finally got all the issues here covered and enjoyed a weekend of just smiling and cruising.

Ray


If these two don't clear up I might take you up on the offer. 3 hours in hot water in an Unltasonic cleaner today. I'll be testing them again Monday at lunch.


Rdean PM sent

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-29-2009).]

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Report this Post11-30-2009 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well I tested these two non working injectors again this morning. Both were working good. I guess 3 hours or so in the Ultra sonic did some good. I will test all 8 once more tomorrow before I put them all back on the fuel rails . I wanna hear that V8 running in my garage before I have to go to work at 1:30pm
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-30-2009).]

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Report this Post12-01-2009 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I did a test on all 8 this morning. Two will only work in the backflush direction, and not the top to bottom direction. I am at a stop untill I have 8 working injectors. Rdean has his old ones and offered to send them to me. Maybe I can get two of those to work .
Joe

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Report this Post12-01-2009 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rdeanClick Here to Email rdeanSend a Private Message to rdeanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sent you a PM

How fast do you want them shipped?

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josef644
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Report this Post12-01-2009 11:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rdean:

Sent you a PM

How fast do you want them shipped?


Priority Mail 3- 5 days is fine.
And thanks
Joe

Edited to add:
After cleaning the two non working injectors in the Ultrasonic cleaner and hot water for 4 hours yesterday, I have one still refusing to cooperate. One unhappy camper. It will backflush, but not spray. I am gonna wait for the ones rdean is sending before proceeding.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 12-02-2009).]

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Report this Post12-02-2009 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rdeanClick Here to Email rdeanSend a Private Message to rdeanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sent and gone. should be there Friday or Saturday.
I threw in a couple of extras just in case.

Ray

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josef644
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Report this Post12-02-2009 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ray ,ya just got a +
And Thanks
Joe

Edited to add:

My thrread on how to remove 4.9 Fuel Rails and injectors:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/105057.html

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 12-02-2009).]

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Report this Post12-03-2009 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Installed one V6 automatic radiator.

And just for information:
Just for information. This also fits other GM:

and, but the arrow pointing to the front of the car is incorrect

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 12-03-2009).]

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Nhebayer
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Report this Post12-04-2009 04:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NhebayerClick Here to Email NhebayerSend a Private Message to NhebayerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

My First post. Been following for awhile... But had trouble getting signed up so I could post. LOL

Awesome job on this... I will be starting the same project in a cpl of weeks. Your level of detail is great.. Easy to follow.

Thank you
Reaney

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Report this Post12-04-2009 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Nhebayer:

My First post. Been following for awhile... But had trouble getting signed up so I could post. LOL

Awesome job on this... I will be starting the same project in a cpl of weeks. Your level of detail is great.. Easy to follow.

Thank you
Reaney


Thanks for the kind words Reaney, and good luck on your swap.
Joe

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Report this Post12-04-2009 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan_SeattleClick Here to Email Dan_SeattleSend a Private Message to Dan_SeattleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Close, so close!

I know mine is a little different than yours, but I've done some tuning on it and now seem to be averaging around 25mpg. I still need to get the 195 thermostat in mine. I think I popped in a 180 durring the summer months. Dumb and wasn't needed. Got any pictures of your car in it's current state for us?

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Report this Post12-04-2009 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It is Friday and Joe is out in his S-10 by the mailbox, with the heater running waiting for his injectors!
I think Christmas will come early for Joe.

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Report this Post12-04-2009 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan_SeattleClick Here to Email Dan_SeattleSend a Private Message to Dan_SeattleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Too funny! Yeah, I would be myself.

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Report this Post12-04-2009 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dan_Seattle:

Close, so close!

I know mine is a little different than yours, but I've done some tuning on it and now seem to be averaging around 25mpg. I still need to get the 195 thermostat in mine. I think I popped in a 180 during the summer months. Dumb and wasn't needed.


I've got the same situation with my thermo. I was told it "had" to be used with the chip from stickpony (which I'm no longer using )With the 180 therm the car does not heat fully up on my commute. Figured I'd pick up a 195 this weekend. Just out of curosity, did you have the second fan switch setup also on yours? My second PCM fan output is setup 10 degrees higher. I think I'll wire in a winter/summer switch for easy changes between the 2 outputs.

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josef644
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Report this Post12-04-2009 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierocarparts:

It is Friday and Joe is out in his S-10 by the mailbox, with the heater running waiting for his injectors!
I think Christmas will come early for Joe.


Gas is to expensive to waste sitting out here. Our mail is the last delivered of the day on this route. He's here between 3:30 and 4:00pm. I'm sitting here with my laptop and 4 thick blankets!!!
 
quote
Originally posted by Dan_Seattle:

Close, so close!

I know mine is a little different than yours, but I've done some tuning on it and now seem to be averaging around 25mpg. I still need to get the 195 thermostat in mine. I think I popped in a 180 durring the summer months. Dumb and wasn't needed. Got any pictures of your car in it's current state for us?


I saw about 2-3 MPG difference between the 180* and the 195* on my Duke. They prefer the hotter temps

Sure thing, but not much to see that has changed since the last ones I posted:
This shot shows the upper static Fiero storage area:

Gen u wine fierocarparts radiator installed two night ago:

Gen u wine fierocarparts 2.5 thermostat neck cut off and prepped for welding on the Caddie thermostat housing:

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 12-04-2009).]

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josef644
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Report this Post12-04-2009 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

,

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 12-04-2009).]

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josef644
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Report this Post12-04-2009 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I thought this would be on page 7, but I was wrong. Who ever post next will be page 7

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 12-04-2009).]

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