Originally posted by 84Bill: However if one can not afford to bust that montly nut then now is not the time to buy.. I mean like Duhh.. it's not rocket science.
That has nothing to do with the economy, though. If you buy a house and can't afford the "monthly nut" then you're in for financial problems - regardless of the economy. The only possibility is when the the prices were going up so fast you had the option of selling for more than you paid when you couldn't make the payments. Counting on that is foolhearty. It was foolish when the housing market was booming and it's suicidal now.
I bought my house last year. If it drops in value or interest rates go up, that doesn't affect me. My 30 year fixed mortgage payment isn't going to change. My interest rate isn't going to go up. I could only lose money if I decide to sell during a slump. Over the long term prices will recover and grow and if I wait a few years to sell, this housing slump with have zero effect on me.
If you're just looking to buy real estate as an investment to flip, then you take more risks. But that doesn't change the fact that you have to pay the mortgage until the house is sold. You just have to make sensible choices - don't get a mortgage that's going to be affordable today and bankrupt you when the rates adjust, and don't buy more house than you can afford to pay for. That's true for everything - not just housing.
Right now my biggest economic concern is the devaluation of the U.S. Dollar on the world market. With as much as we import, that will make many products more expensive and can lead to inflation.
Originally posted by Formula88: That has nothing to do with the economy, though. If you buy a house and can't afford the "monthly nut" then you're in for financial problems - regardless of the economy. The only possibility is when the the prices were going up so fast you had the option of selling for more than you paid when you couldn't make the payments. Counting on that is foolhearty. It was foolish when the housing market was booming and it's suicidal now.
From what I'm reading and watching in and on the news it aprears that many of those "investors" flipping houses are the ones who got those crappy mortgages figureing they could pull a fast flip and are now stuck with 2 and 3 houses they cant sell. These same asshulls are the ones to caused the housing prices to skyrocket in the first place and those who follishly bough an overpriced POS house with a wonderfull adjustable interest rate are being forced out because (1) The POS house was artificially inflated to begin with due to the roll over practices. (2) The interest rates have gone up (3) Insurance rates have gone up (4) Property taxes have gone up (5) Energy costs have gone up which means pretty much everything across the board has gone up (6) Pay has not gone up at the same rate. (7) The POS house will not sell for near its overly inflated purchase price.
Home builders who built those cheaply built highly priced POS houses at astonishing rates are now really hurting. Some cant even continue their half built developments.. Brandy ne POS houses are vaccant along with the older WAY overly priced houses. THey simply cant sell them.
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Right now my biggest economic concern is the devaluation of the U.S. Dollar on the world market. With as much as we import, that will make many products more expensive and can lead to inflation.
You mean MORE inflation?
It's already happening. Nazi owned Wal-Mart is suffering sales decline. The local distribution center is currently cutting back job thru attrition to offset the drop in sales but will still show quartly gains. The next step is to raise prices and from what I can see.. it's starting to happen.
Some retailers are even promoting "tax free days" to get people into the stores. They may not charge tax but you can bet your sweet hiney they raised the prices a few cents prior to their market campaign and they aint going to lower them again anytime soon.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-11-2007).]
"Some retailers are even promoting "tax free days" to get people into the stores."
Tax free days, or weeks, are generally legislated by the state and occur close to the start of school, at least everywhere where I have paid attention when I heard about it. Bill, you live in Fl, so you should know that that is what happened here. This week is no tax week.
As for raising prices, I've been shopping this week and haven't seen any evidence of that. In fact, the local WalMart where I buy the tee shirts I wear to work had them for $3 instead of $4 and their brand of jeans was $10. I bought a jacket at J. C. Penney that was marked down to $48 from $160. All of the mens wear was marked down. All of the clothes I regularly buy keep going down in price with no change in quality. However, I do wait for sales and watch prices carefully when I buy.
"Some retailers are even promoting "tax free days" to get people into the stores."
Tax free days, or weeks, are generally legislated by the state and occur close to the start of school, at least everywhere where I have paid attention when I heard about it. Bill, you live in Fl, so you should know that that is what happened here. This week is no tax week.
As for raising prices, I've been shopping this week and haven't seen any evidence of that. In fact, the local WalMart where I buy the tee shirts I wear to work had them for $3 instead of $4 and their brand of jeans was $10. I bought a jacket at J. C. Penney that was marked down to $48 from $160. All of the mens wear was marked down. All of the clothes I regularly buy keep going down in price with no change in quality. However, I do wait for sales and watch prices carefully when I buy.
A lot of things aren't rocket science Bill. The mating habits of African Swallows in not rocket science. Pillow fights are not rocket science. Stupidty is not rocket science.
Economics...THAT'S rocket science Bill. And clearly you're no rocket scientist.
What manufacturing sector are you talking about exactly?
We no longer have one, everything is built someplace else.
Thanks to those who insist on buying Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, and every other car made overseas, or made here and then all the profits sent back to their home country.
Keep telling yourself we are in fine shape, buy that BMW, Sony TV, and al the other crap.
Don’t forget to buy your kids those Chinese made toxic toys.
Did you forget to comment on this one Todd?
Or this?
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Originally posted by 84fiero123:
It’s going to hit hard, and already is in California. They have the highest percentage of loans at high risk.
Option-ARMs accounted for nearly 22 percent of the mortgages made in California during 2006, according to LoanPerformance. Other hot spots included: Nevada (15 percent), Hawaii (13.3 percent), Florida (12.2 percent), Washington (10.9 percent) and Arizona (10.6 percent). If many of those loans go bad, major option-ARM lenders will likely be forced to erase some of the profits that they have already booked from the exotic mortgages. Under an accrual accounting method allowed by regulators, option-ARM lenders routinely record the uncollected interest as income even though the money may never be paid.
I see you don’t answer the questions that have a ring of truth.
Didn't forget. I don't answer the questions of people not willing to learn. Why should I waste my breath sharing my knowledge with you when no matter WHAT I say you will merely disagree with me for the sake of being argumentative?
I'm happy to answer serious and legitimate questions on economics from anyone on any level of understanding on the subject but I simply scoff at trolls.
Didn't forget. I don't answer the questions of people not willing to learn. Why should I waste my breath sharing my knowledge with you when no matter WHAT I say you will merely disagree with me for the sake of being argumentative?
I'm happy to answer serious and legitimate questions on economics from anyone on any level of understanding on the subject but I simply scoff at trolls.
So you really are stupid!
You can’t give a good answer to those legitimate questions and your non answer proves your not quite as smart as you think you are. Of course no one could be as smart as you think you are.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
You can’t give a good answer to those legitimate questions and your non answer proves your not quite as smart as you think you are. Of course no one could be as smart as you think you are.
Well you sure did put me in my place. How silly of me to think you are a troll.
Originally posted by Toddster: Economics...THAT'S rocket science Bill. And clearly you're no rocket scientist.
Economics for some is rocket science in the fact that in order to steal the peoples money legally there needs to be crafty deceptions and alot of smoe and mirrors.
Economics is nothing more than the premmice that if you have money you spend it, if you dont have money you cant.
The smoke and mirrors "rocket science" part of all this is credit.. which is spending money that one does not have.. It begs the question.. If one has no money then how can one spend money
This can be dummed down as well... You cant really do that forver and without some limits so if you do, you had better be able to BACK IT UP which we will all soon find out the dollar is completely worthless.
Lowe's axes 205 workers in Osceola [county] Real-estate woes in Central Florida and across the nation hit the home-improvement retailer hard.
Mark Chediak and Daphne Sashin | Sentinel Staff Writers August 11, 2007
The slumping housing market claimed more victims Friday, as 205 Lowe's workers lost their jobs because of slowing sales at the nation's second-largest home-improvement retailer.
Employees who showed up for work Thursday night at the massive Lowe's distribution center in Osceola County were told not to clock in. Some started to cry, and others were simply stunned by the news. Several said their hours had been reduced in recent weeks, but they had no idea they would be without jobs -- and health benefits.
"I'm tired, and I feel very bad," said Maria Medina, 57, who was sitting with others from her department Friday afternoon outside the Kissimmee Civic Center, where laid-off employees were collecting severance information and getting job-placement counseling.
Though the housing bust hit home in a personal way for the Lowe's workers, its effects are being felt across the nation. The subprime-mortgage meltdown and concern about a credit crunch forced the Federal Reserve on Friday to inject billions of dollars into the banking system to calm the markets, which have been reeling for weeks. Home-improvement retailers have been particularly hard-hit by the housing turmoil. Lowe's, the nation's second-largest home-supply retailer behind Home Depot, reported a same-store sales and profit decline for its latest quarter, despite earning $47 billion in annual sales in fiscal year 2006.
Three years ago, when Lowe's opened the 1.4 million-square-foot distribution center in the Poinciana Office and Industrial Park, the economic picture was far different. The region's hot housing market and the 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons boosted business at home-improvement suppliers. As a result, Lowe's distribution center nearly doubled its work force to about 1,000 employees by the spring of 2006.
However, during the past few months, employees had been asked to reduce their hours or take voluntary time off because of slackening demand. Lowe's had received a $1.8 million job-incentives package to open its Osceola County distribution center, which supplies 96 retail stores in Florida and southern Georgia. The incentive deal required the distribution center to create 600 jobs by the end of 2007, which the company is on track to meet, Ahearn said.
However, that's little consolation for those workers without a job Friday.
Israel Cruz, 55, said he was on vacation when he got the call to show up at the Kissimmee Civic Center to pick up his severance papers.
'It's coming just like that," said Cruz, of Poinciana, who worked in the receiving department. "The mortgage is too high. I don't know what I'm going to do now." http://www.orlandosentinel....ug11,0,3349916.story [QUOTE]
To the best of my knowledge, Israel Cruz isn't an investor or a speculator. Just an average citizen who THOUGHT he had a good steady job with a good company. So he bought a house. More homes and jobs are disappearing. Every day I see more homes with "For Sale- Bank Forclosure" signs in the yard. The President is keeping an eye on things, though. Just like he kept an eye on New Orleans during and after Hurricane Katrina.... ------------------ Thank you for the forum, Cliff.
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 08-12-2007).]
You can’t give a good answer to those legitimate questions and your non answer proves your not quite as smart as you think you are. Of course no one could be as smart as you think you are.
Oooooooh, Steve. You really got him there. Knock him out with your killer argument move.... Ask him to describe how to do something on fixing a car or welding or construction. You know, the stumpers that don't remotely have anything to do with the thread you ask when YOU'RE OVER YOUR HEAD IN AN INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING BEING SAID!
So, let me get this straight........
You start a thread asking for opinions of the economy. I would assume because you're not quite sure what to make of everything. Like others, you'd like to get a bunch of different views from those that are educated or familiar or are authorities in the topic you ask about. Then you start arguments with those that are trying to educate you or familiarize you better with the topic?
If you think someone is not quite right, then please, post something more educated and refined and versed rather than starting a drunken bar type argument that a couple of cavemen would start. Even if it is a thread YOU started.
Instead of posting an article and saying "What about this?", post a link and give us your opinion or knowledge and why you think the article holds water or why it doesn't.
If you think the economy stinks right off the bat, create a thread: "The Economy Stinks!" and then back up your opinion.
Oooooooh, Steve. You really got him there. Knock him out with your killer argument move.... Ask him to describe how to do something on fixing a car or welding or construction. You know, the stumpers that don't remotely have anything to do with the thread you ask when YOU'RE OVER YOUR HEAD IN AN INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING BEING SAID!
So, let me get this straight........
You start a thread asking for opinions of the economy. I would assume because you're not quite sure what to make of everything. Like others, you'd like to get a bunch of different views from those that are educated or familiar or are authorities in the topic you ask about. Then you start arguments with those that are trying to educate you or familiarize you better with the topic?
If you think someone is not quite right, then please, post something more educated and refined and versed rather than starting a drunken bar type argument that a couple of cavemen would start. Even if it is a thread YOU started.
Instead of posting an article and saying "What about this?", post a link and give us your opinion or knowledge and why you think the article holds water or why it doesn't.
If you think the economy stinks right off the bat, create a thread: "The Economy Stinks!" and then back up your opinion.
Check my first post on this page ace. It has all the things you wanted yet the Turd didn’t even try to say I was wrong or give a reason why he didn’t answer it.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-12-2007).]
GLOBAL Economy, 94fiero123. GLOBAL Economy. We can't stay as isolationists. You've got to now look at the big world for our entire economy. Steve, I'm not trying to insult you or argue with you, but I constantly see that you want to stay in the day that there wasn't the big picture to look at. We can't look at things like that anymore. If we kept looking at the little picture of just the USA, we'd be or will be like Iran, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Kurdistan and other 3rd world countries.
You referenced that we're hurting our economy by outsourcing to Toyota and Honda even though the manufacture here and take all those profits beck to Asia. That may be, but the Americans employed by Toyota and Honda are spending their paychecks here and making the economy move. And to reciprocate things, Levi Strauss is having jeans made in say Mexico, the Mexicans are spending their paycheck in Mexico, but the profits from that move are flowing right back into the U.S. and the shareholders are getting dividends from the profits and making our U.S. economy move.
Give and take and move and adapt with the changes.
GLOBAL Economy, 94fiero123. GLOBAL Economy. We can't stay as isolationists. You've got to now look at the big world for our entire economy. Steve, I'm not trying to insult you or argue with you, but I constantly see that you want to stay in the day that there wasn't the big picture to look at. We can't look at things like that anymore. If we kept looking at the little picture of just the USA, we'd be or will be like Iran, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Kurdistan and other 3rd world countries.
You referenced that we're hurting our economy by outsourcing to Toyota and Honda even though the manufacture here and take all those profits beck to Asia. That may be, but the Americans employed by Toyota and Honda are spending their paychecks here and making the economy move. And to reciprocate things, Levi Strauss is having jeans made in say Mexico, the Mexicans are spending their paycheck in Mexico, but the profits from that move are flowing right back into the U.S. and the shareholders are getting dividends from the profits and making our U.S. economy move.
Give and take and move and adapt with the changes.
Ya the global economy is doing just great because of what is happening here to, right?
The shareholders are not sending these jobs overseas, the executives right here in this country are sending the jobs elsewhere.
Originally posted by aceman: Toyota and Honda are spending their paychecks here and making the economy move. And to reciprocate things, Levi Strauss is having jeans made in say Mexico, the Mexicans are spending their paycheck in Mexico, but the profits from that move are flowing right back into the U.S. and the shareholders are getting dividends from the profits and making our U.S. economy move.
Give and take and move and adapt with the changes.
I dont mean to interrupt the bruhaha but that monie that is being spent here goes to China, Mexico.. etc... etc.. and the rest goes to the upper echeschlongs. Banks mainly.
BEIJING (AP) — China sought Sunday to dampen speculation it will conduct a massive sell-off of U.S. dollar holdings, with a central bank official saying the dollar remains a mainstay of its foreign exchange reserves. In an interview carried by the government's Xinhua News Agency, an unnamed official with the People's Bank of China said U.S. dollars and government bonds are "an important part of China's foreign reserve investments." China's $1.3 trillion in foreign exchange reserves are the largest in the world and are believed to be comprised largely of dollar assets, potentially giving Beijing enormous sway over the dollar's value and currency markets worldwide.
So how about China? What is your opinion on it? If I state my opinion on it and it's not what you want to hear, you call me a pompous, arrogant ass. You wonder why people don't answer you directly?
Oh yeah.. Communist China is our friend.. I forgot about that... and so is human rights abuser of the world Saudi Arabia. Which is where much of out money goes for oil.. Hey pretty soon we may be know for something too.. BEING BROKE AS A MUTHAH ****ER!
Funny how the people on here that have enough money to invest in the market are the ones saying we are doing fine and the ones that don’t have disposable income, (90% of the American public), think it’s in the shitter.
Dow Off 208 on On Credit, Consumer Woes 
Tuesday August 14, 6:10 PM EDT
NEW YORK (AP) — Wall Street pulled back sharply Tuesday as investors worried about fundamental economic problems as well as the ongoing fallout from credit market problems and stocks' own volatility. The Dow Jones industrials skidded more than 200 points. The downturn in stocks was first triggered by a report from Wal-Mart Stores Inc. that profit will fall below expectations this year as consumers rein in spending. Home Depot Inc., the world's biggest home improvement chain, added to the slide when it said weakness in the housing market caused quarterly profit to slide. Confirmation that Sentinel Management Group Inc., which oversees $1.6 billion in assets, is seeking to halt investor redemptions exacerbated the selling. Other funds are said to have similar problems as they face withdrawal demands at a time it has become difficult to value low-quality debt.
Funny how the people on here that have enough money to invest in the market are the ones saying we are doing fine and the ones that don’t have disposable income, (90% of the American public), think it’s in the shitter.
That's when the commies strike the hardest. I really believe you all deserve what you get too. I just wish I could figure out a sure fire way not to go down with you.
Funny how the people on here that have enough money to invest in the market are the ones saying we are doing fine and the ones that don’t have disposable income, (90% of the American public), think it’s in the shitter.
Heh, it is what YOU choose to spend your money on. Well maybe not you in particular knowing something of your situation, I tell you what, I am but tired of doom criers that really want nothing more than to watch me lose my money just because I CHOSE to invest and THEY did something else and somehow it is not FAIR that I have it and they don't. CHOICES PEOPLE!!!!!!! Seems like it is the liberals who take the main share of that type of thinking.
Still doing fine at 13,028 almost 6,000 higher than it was in recent years. See it is all how you look at it!
Still doing fine at 13,028 almost 6,000 higher than it was in recent years. See it is all how you look at it!
Good point. If you look at today's chart you might think - AAAGGH!! PANIC!!! 1 Day
But if you look at it over the long term, it's a blip on the radar. 5 Years
I'm not an economics genius, but when I try to watch where the big money goes. Any sudden move in the market will be touted as a major event. That movement is how people make money - both up and down. The hardest thing to do when investing is not look at the daily return, but the big picture. If I were retiring this year, I might be concerned, but I'd also have already moved all of my funds to more stable investments.
You all know how to read. From David Walker, comptroller general of the USA:
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The US government is on a ‘burning platform’ of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned.
David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”.
These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt. [QUOTE]
It would be an interesting psychological study to explore why some people feel the need for this "disaster mentality", their need for the world to end to prove they are right.
It would be an interesting psychological study to explore why some people feel the need for this "disaster mentality", their need for the world to end to prove they are right.
Well I'll take a stab at it,,,,,,,,, It's the same thing that makes most kids today lazy and think the world owes them something. I mean, hell if the world is going to end tomorrow why should I bother doing anything constructive with myself to make a better tomorrow when there is not going to be one. I will just do whatever I please. Spend spend spend like there is no tomorrow.
A lot of people could get into the investment game simply by quitting the latté habit and stop eating out so often!!!!!!!!!! it's not that tough,,, oh but read above again!
I am starting to not give a damn about these people, I would,,,,,hell I am betting that I am going to be better off by the actions and decisions I have made and make today. I survived the market fall into the 7,000's and if it go down that far again? well it WILL come back up. All the doom criers can hope all they want but the really funny part of it is even if I lost everything I would still have as much as they do,,,,,ooops I guess I will still have more, I will have my self respect and the confidents and drive to do it again. The thing of it is,,, is,, our entire economy and dollars are all based on confidence. People should take a hard look at those that are trying to shake it.
Originally posted by fierobear: It would be an interesting psychological study to explore why some people feel the need for this "disaster mentality", their need for the world to end to prove they are right.
Here's a study of HISTORY which is alot more easier to read and much more apt to be repeated. Will the marked follow the exact same path? I duno... Since the market is GLOBAL in scope and other markets are posting losses as well a smart person will say that everything is A okay, move his funds while the not so smart person will cling to false hope and loose his ass. But here is the "old news" case study.
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Throughout the 1920s a long boom took stock prices to peaks never before seen. From 1920 to 1929 stocks more than quadrupled in value. Many investors became convinced that stocks were a sure thing and borrowed heavily to invest more money in the market.
But in 1929, the bubble burst and stocks started down an even more precipitous cliff. In 1932 and 1933, they hit bottom, down about 80% from their highs in the late 1920s. This had sharp effects on the economy. Demand for goods declined because people felt poor because of their losses in the stock market. New investment could not be financed through the sale of stock, because no one would buy the new stock.
But perhaps the most important effect was chaos in the banking system as banks tried to collect on loans made to stockmarket investors whose holdings were now worth little or nothing at all. Worse, many banks had themselves invested depositors' money in the stockmarket. When word spread that banks' assets contained huge uncollectable loans and almost worthless stock certificates, depositors rushed to withdraw their savings. Unable to raise fresh funds from the Federal Reserve System, banks began failing by the hundreds in 1932 and 1933. [quote]
The "fed" just released 35 billion to cover losses. We all know the printing presses are at max output. We know that releases of large summs of money devalues the dollar.. the good side is that other reserve banks have done the same and that would mean their dollar equivlent has lowered as well... So that would seem to indicate the GLOBAL economy (Europe) is on the decline and not just the U.S. Market....
Not to mention this "global market" bullshit has never before been seen in human history making it unpredictable. in any case TRENDS dont lie and the trend at the moment is SELL! SELL! SELL!
The unanswered question is how much longer will it last and when will the pinch start to be felt.. For the wealthy it takes a while to realize they just lost a few million.... in one month... but for the average peon it only takes a few days.
I saw this coming last year and sold off my stocks and bailed early... just in case and I'm glad I did.
Bailing early is a good thing if you reinvest again at the lower value later. If you spent the money you now have less than nothing. If you can buy stock without borrowing to do so ( I will never borrow to buy) and have chosen wisely you really have not lost until you sell/bail, in theory you have less total worth on a given day of course. I know people that both borrowed and bailed when the market plunged last time. They did not get back in and are screwed, we stayed the course and mostly things are back the way they were overall.
The thing is theres nothing to hide the money in except the coffeecan burried in the back yard.
With this 35 bil release in cash the dolar will devalue causing that money you pulled from the market to be worth-less. If you were to reinvest in the market and the market is closely tied to sales of goods which are getting more expensive (inflation) means they will sell less, co's start posting quartly losses so your investment will be worth-less.
The dog is looking right at his own tail and thinking "it will be nice to have that for lunch."
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-15-2007).]
It begs the question.. If one has no money then how can one spend money
