Originally posted by madcurl: The major companies will use their loses as this years write during the next tax season. What they've racked in way more monies than their loses.
Thats true.. but the end result is we are left with a dollar that aint worth didlysquat!
This is a direct result of the FED dumping money by the bucket load into the market to get the banks propped up.
We've just begun to see the fall out of all this fun and frivolous spending.. The fun part is cleaning up after the party.
And who do you supposed bails out the insurance companies?
The same as all other insurance companies during ecomonic or wide scale weather related issues. Some compaines fold, some are absorb, some die, and others regroup and live on to see another day. Just take a look at Florida. Not many insurance companies are currently in the "insurance" business.
Originally posted by madcurl: The same as all other insurance companies during ecomonic or wide scale weather related issues. Some compaines fold, some are absorb, some die, and others regroup and live on to see another day. Just take a look at Florida. Not many insurance companies are currently in the "insurance" business.
But this is GLOBAL. It's not just America but the EU. The "deflated" dollar will cause havoc on trade, prices at the stores will eventually have to rise OR the trade deficit will go off scale.
Christmas will be fun. I cant wait to see how it all pans out.
funny was a bad choice for the post, but to call them idiots is not any better.
OK, a bad choice, we all make some.
Somebody already posted the definition of an idiot for you, and well nobody likes to be called one, but stupid is as stupid does. I can't help it if people don't know how or want to hold on to their monies, what would you like these good hearted folks to be called? I will also bet that the people that were not idiots and just plane lost are the one that will be able to pick themselves up.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: ..... Could all of you go without an income for 6 months and still pay all your bills?
Could all of you go without an income for 9 months and still pay all your bills?
Could all of you go without an income for more than a year and still pay all your bills? .....
here is where much of the problem comes from. most people - if they could "not work" for 6 months - they just plain old wouldn't. if they could take a year off, they would. if they have anything extra - it must be consumed. it means they must be able to add another few thousand to their debt.
Christmas will be fun. I cant wait to see how it all pans out.
Fine fine fine...
As the U.S. dollor deflates and China exported toys are coated with lead paint, AAPL is up @ $170.09 and raising. It maybe a "blue" Christmas for U.S. toy companies, but it's gonna be a good X-mas for Apple as they sell the cheaper version of their Ipods; the same may hold true for RIMM currently @ 116.45 as the business community buys. In other news;
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
GOOG up in after hours trading $630, RIMM $117, CSCO $33.33, LFC $96, MSFT $30
Meanwhile, China Life Incsurance (LFC) @ $98.77 and climbing. China mightbe making bad tyoys for U.S. babies, but the Chinese people do need life Insurance, right? If you can't beat them....join them and ride the wave up.
Okay folks, we've hit a bump in the road and stocks are down a little.
The run up in oil and gold prices lifted the stocks of oil services and metals firms. However, it dragged on the airline sector, as those companies are especially sensitive to fuel price fluctuations.
And why not? The got 30 BILLION of the 50 BILLION from the fed to play with.. So far, investors have taken in stride more than $20 billion in writedowns from the financial sector, due to the subprime crisis. And that could be an indication of how stock investors may respond to any weak earnings being reported over the next few weeks.
Australia ASX 100 -19.40 -0.35% 5,468.30 10/12 5:00pm Australia ASX All Ords -19.50 -0.29% 6,760.10 10/12 5:00pm Australia ASX Mid-cap 50 -32.30 -0.48% 6,761.60 10/12 5:00pm Hong Kong Hang Seng -294.65 -1.01% 28,838.37 10/12 5:59pm Hong Kong HSCC Red Chip -70.28 -1.15% 6,054.46 10/12 4:25pm Japan Nikkei 225 -127.81 -0.73% 17,331.17 10/12 4:30pm
Europe Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Belgium Bel 20 -33.51 -0.74% 4,501.40 10/12 1:23pm Europe DJ Stoxx -28.77 -0.73% 3,894.08 10/12 1:23pm Europe Euronext 100 -9.09 -0.87% 1,036.93 10/12 1:23pm Europe Euronext 150 -12.41 -0.64% 1,941.85 10/12 1:23pm France CAC -70.70 -1.21% 5,792.13 10/12 1:23pm France SBF 80 -67.61 -0.96% 6,996.64 10/12 1:23pm France SBF 120 -50.07 -1.17% 4,227.92 10/12 1:23pm Germany DAX -45.27 -0.56% 7,988.42 10/12 1:23pm Germany MDAX -62.44 -0.58% 10,694.06 10/12 1:23pm Germany TECDAX -5.54 -0.55% 1,008.36 10/12 1:23pm Netherlands AEX -2.81 -0.50% 555.20 10/12 1:23pm Norway BRIX -5.99 -0.16% 3,817.36 10/11 12:00am Norway OSE Industry -3.78 -0.22% 467.43 10/12 1:23pm Sweden OMX +7.30 +0.58% 1,267.70 10/11 12:00am Sweden OMSX All Share +2.66 +0.66% 407.81 10/11 12:00am UK FTSE 100 -49.60 -0.74% 6,674.90 10/12 12:23pm UK FTSE All Shares -25.32 -0.73% 3,428.30 10/12 12:23pm UK FTSE Eurotop -24.41 -0.73% 3,317.07 10/12 12:23pm UK FTSE Techmark -8.17 -0.47% 1,742.37 10/12 12:23pm
The economy only needs to be portrayed as rosy and healthy until if and when the Dems get a president into office. At that point the portrayals will swap, I predict less than 60 days, then the fall will be blamed on the Dems even though it takes years of mismanagement to create the crap that's gonna hit the fan soon. Personally I hope the Dems lose the presidential election next year, that way cause and effect will be clear enough to ensure that no Republican will hold any office of significance for the next half century. That'll give the Dems enough time to clean up the mess if there's any way to clean it up at all. My gut feeling is that ultimately the fall will be as bad as the Great Depression in some ways and far worse in others, and the end result will be that we'll become a third-world country with no particular importance in the world. I hate for that to happen, don't want it to happen, but you know what they say, wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one fills up first.
JazzMan
So are you saying when Bush cut taxes and tax revenue increased it wasn't really because of the tax cuts but because of Clinton? And when Clinton over saw the dot com boom and all was good it was really Bush/Reagen's doing?
Damn... hit another bump.. This road sux... anyone know of a good paver for hire cheap?
Oil smashes $86 for the first time 3:28pm: Crude prices reach record high on worries about declining oil inventories, OPEC production warning; Turkey-Iraq tension.
Looks like the world markets.. europe in particular took yet another hit... all is fine fine fine...
Europe Index Change %Change Level Last Update * Belgium Bel 20 -30.08 -0.66% 4,501.98 10/15 6:05pm Europe DJ Stoxx -34.06 -0.87% 3,895.83 10/15 7:00pm Europe Euronext 100 -7.11 -0.68% 1,037.92 10/15 6:07pm Europe Euronext 150 -3.67 -0.19% 1,945.15 10/15 6:07pm France CAC -36.51 -0.62% 5,807.44 10/15 6:10pm France SBF 80 -42.59 -0.60% 7,002.43 10/15 6:12pm France SBF 120 -26.52 -0.62% 4,238.00 10/15 6:12pm Germany DAX -71.79 -0.89% 7,969.47 10/15 6:32pm Germany MDAX -56.69 -0.53% 10,698.40 10/15 6:32pm Germany TECDAX -0.70 -0.07% 1,013.97 10/15 6:32pm Netherlands AEX -6.07 -1.09% 553.07 10/15 6:05pm Norway BRIX -4.09 -0.11% 3,813.53 10/15 11:56am Norway OSE Industry -2.64 -0.16% 463.92 10/15 4:28pm Sweden OMX -7.40 -0.58% 1,260.30 10/12 12:00am Sweden OMSX All Share -2.28 -0.56% 405.53 10/12 12:00am UK FTSE 100 -86.20 -1.28% 6,644.50 10/15 4:35pm UK FTSE All Shares -43.12 -1.25% 3,411.41 10/15 4:36pm UK FTSE Eurotop -26.98 -0.81% 3,321.00 10/15 4:45pm UK FTSE Techmark -11.50 -0.66% 1,735.01 10/15 4:36pm Americas Index Change %Change Level Last Update * Canada TSE 300 -64.58 -0.45% 14,231.28 10/15 4:54pm Canada CDNX +52.51 +1.77% 3,014.41 10/15 4:54pm Canada S&P/TSX 60 -4.83 -0.58% 824.08 10/15 4:45pm
Stocks get slammed Financial sector leads decliners on Citigroup's weak profits, debt rescue fund implications; crude hits all-time high above $86 a barrel.
Meanwhile, China Life Incsurance (LFC) @ $98.77 and climbing. China mightbe making bad tyoys for U.S. babies, but the Chinese people do need life Insurance, right? If you can't beat them....join them and ride the wave up.
LFC still holding onto past gains @ 96.03. China index stock FXI at $202.94...wow! Not bad if you got in under $100 bucks in three months flat or even @131 per share. A few bucks lost @109.71 RIMM (somebody rated it over-rated). CSCO still holding @32.79
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 10-15-2007).]
I don't think the stock market is a really good indicator of economic health, if for no other reason than if the income/wealth distribution is the same for stockholders as it is for the general population it means that 90% of the value is owned by less than 5% of the people and the remaining 10% is spread out so thin among the bottom 90% of the people that it can't really make a meaningful difference in their lives. I know that I don't, and can't afford to, own any stocks so this market isn't helping me at all in any direct sense, i.e., can I buy groceries this week or not.
123 started this thread using the then plunging stock market as one reason to think we were all going into the gutter, which is why we have been hashing out the market for 18 pages now, with almost daily updates of gloom and doom.
The way is affects all of us is in consumer confidents and the fact that just about everybodies retirement is tied to it in one way or another. It also has to do with the value of a corp. and their ability to borrow etc. to keep the masses employed.
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:
Oh, and Greenspan should have reigned in the dot-com bubble, he even said so himself, but I guess Clinton could have ordered him to do that. Wait, does the fed Chairman take orders from the President? I honestly don't know.
JazzMan
I don't believe the Pres. has any control over the chairman other than the initial appointment.
[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 10-15-2007).]
I did not start this thread only on the stock markets plunge but on the housing climbing bankruptcies.
The stock market is one of the things I pointed out to show how I thought the economy was going down the tubes but I also included the rise in bankruptcies in this country as part of my first thread.
It was not just the stock market, even though some have looked at it this way.
And some have picked the housing boom as a good thing until all the bankruptcies. Then blaming them on peoples own stupidity. While that may be true in some cases, it is not true in all. Yet they continue to increase.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123: The economy, is it good or bad. Are we headed into a recession? I see on the one hand the stock market is taking a dive, Stocks Plunge; Dow Down More Than 310 Email this Story
Jul 26, 6:33 PM (ET)
By JOE BEL BRUNO  (AP) Trader Peter Tuchman rubs his head as he works or the floor of the New York Stock Exchange,... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} NEW YORK (AP) - Wall Street suffered one of its worst losses of 2007 Thursday, leading a global stock market plunge as investors succumbed to months of worry about the mortgage and corporate lending markets. The Dow Jones industrials closed down more than 310 points after earlier skidding nearly 450. Investors who had been able for months to largely shrug off discomfort about subprime mortgage problems and a more difficult environment for corporate borrowing finally decided it was time to sell after the Commerce Department issued another disappointing home sales report.
By ALEX VEIGA  (AP) A home is offered for sale in Riverside, Calif. Monday, July 23 2007. Mortgage defaults in... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} LOS ANGELES (AP) - The national housing slump could lead to billions of dollars in losses for Wall Street investors as it drags on for at least another year and mortgage defaults increase, economists said Thursday. The outlook on eroding credit quality in the U.S. mortgage market by Moody's Economy.com anticipates that more than 1.2 million first mortgage loans will default this year and another 1.3 million will follow next year. That compares with about 900,000 defaults last year and about 800,000 in 2005, Mark Zandi, the Web site's chief economist, said in a conference call. Hedge fund investors will lose between $100 billion and $125 billion as a result, he said.
"We do expect losses in the subprime market to be very severe," Zandi said
Yet the government says everything is doing great.
Economy Growth Is Best in a Year
Email this Story
Jul 27, 9:14 AM (ET)
By JEANNINE AVERSA  (AP) A newly constructed home waits for an owner in Bainbridge Twp., Ohio on Thursday, July 26, 2007. ... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} WASHINGTON (AP) - The economy snapped out of a lethargic spell and grew at a 3.4 percent pace in the second quarter, the strongest showing in more than a year. A revival in business spending was a main force behind the energized performance. The new reading on gross domestic product, released by the Commerce Department on Friday, marked a big improvement from the first three months of this year, when economic growth skidded to a near halt at just a 0.6 percent pace, the slowest in more than four years.
Like sand through an hour glass.. the fall continues.
Bernanke has warning for Wall Street In a speech in New York, the Fed chairman said the central bank's big interest rate cut last month has helped but that the Fed can't 'insulate investors from risk.' October 15 2007: 10:24 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- In a speech to the New York Economic Club Monday night, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank's rate cut in September has shown signs of success, but cautioned that lenders and investors must bear responsibility for financial decisions that caused the subprime mortgage meltdown.
Junk mortgages under the microscope A close-up of one deal shows how subprime mortgages went bad, says Fortune's Allan Sloan. FORTUNE Magazine By Allan Sloan, Fortune senior editor-at-large October 16 2007: 5:59 AM EDT
(Fortune Magazine) -- It's getting hard to wrap your brain around subprime mortgages, Wall Street's fancy name for junk home loans. There's so much subprime stuff floating around - more than $1.5 trillion of loans, maybe $200 billion of losses, thousands of families facing foreclosure, umpteen politicians yapping - that it's like the federal budget: It's just too big to be understandable.
And the world markets.. doing well this morning. Asia Pacific & Australia Index Change %Change Level Last Update * Australia ASX 100 -39.50 -0.72% 5,417.30 10/16 5:00pm Australia ASX All Ords -40.30 -0.60% 6,711.30 10/16 5:00pm Australia ASX Mid-cap 50 -44.70 -0.66% 6,733.10 10/16 5:00pm Hong Kong Hang Seng -586.23 -1.98% 28,954.55 10/16 5:50pm Hong Kong HSCC Red Chip -13.74 -0.22% 6,345.12 10/16 4:23pm Japan Nikkei 225 -220.23 -1.27% 17,137.92 10/16 4:30pm Europe Index Change %Change Level Last Update * Belgium Bel 20 -38.09 -0.85% 4,463.89 10/16 12:35pm Europe DJ Stoxx -43.96 -1.13% 3,851.87 10/16 12:35pm Europe Euronext 100 -7.80 -0.75% 1,030.12 10/16 12:35pm Europe Euronext 150 -17.36 -0.89% 1,927.79 10/16 12:35pm France CAC -51.94 -0.89% 5,755.50 10/16 12:35pm France SBF 80 -74.43 -1.06% 6,928.00 10/16 12:35pm France SBF 120 -38.92 -0.92% 4,199.08 10/16 12:35pm Germany DAX -33.00 -0.41% 7,936.47 10/16 12:35pm Germany MDAX -188.81 -1.76% 10,509.59 10/16 12:35pm Germany TECDAX -13.52 -1.33% 1,000.45 10/16 12:35pm Netherlands AEX -4.22 -0.76% 548.85 10/16 12:35pm Norway BRIX -4.09 -0.11% 3,813.53 10/15 12:00am Norway OSE Industry -6.75 -0.40% 457.17 10/16 12:35pm Sweden OMX -10.65 -0.85% 1,249.65 10/15 12:00am Sweden OMSX All Share -2.62 -0.65% 402.91 10/15 12:00am UK FTSE 100 -36.50 -0.55% 6,608.00 10/16 11:35am UK FTSE All Shares -17.48 -0.51% 3,393.93 10/16 11:35am UK FTSE Eurotop -30.89 -0.93% 3,290.11 10/16 11:35am UK FTSE Techmark -8.78 -0.51% 1,726.23 10/16 11:35am Americas Index Change %Change Level Last Update * Canada TSE 300 -64.58 -0.45% 14,231.28 10/15 12:00am Canada CDNX +52.51 +1.77% 3,014.41 10/15 12:00am Canada S&P/TSX 60 -4.83 -0.58% 824.08 10/15 12:00am
and, dont forget the bleeding hole in the USA's economy. $200,000 per minute. to rebuild Iraq. how many folk here would like that in one year? this is one minute.....
I did not start this thread only on the stock markets plunge but on the housing climbing bankruptcies.
quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:
123 started this thread using the then plunging stock market as one reason to think we were all going into the gutter, which is why we have been hashing out the market for 18 pages now, with almost daily updates of gloom and doom.
"as one" are the key words here!
And yes, most people that are in the housing crisis were/are idiots. Key word being "most"
Junk mortgages = subprime, key word,,,,, "junk" this whole load of crap is being used as a political tool. "tool" is the key word here and is exactly what the people are that signed these junk mortgages and the people that buy into the sky is falling doom and gloom which by design is undermining consumer confidence, that as said is what our entire investment economy is kept thriving by.
There have been and always will be people in the poor house, PERIOD! so waving these unfortunate people around to try and prove an inept point is laughable.
I am sure this was spelled out pages ago but here it is again anyway!
Record number of home owners,,,,,,,, record number of foreclosures! DUH!
Record number of jobs,,,,,,,,,, record number of losses! DUH
Anytime you have record highs in whatever you will have record percentages of whatever!
and, dont forget the bleeding hole in the USA's economy. $200,000 per minute. to rebuild Iraq. how many folk here would like that in one year? this is one minute.....
I certainly won't debate that that is a lot of moolah!. I would be interested to see other government expenses calculated by the minute. I think it must be thought of as an "investment" in the future. We shall have to just wait and see how it turns out.
I am quite sure that many of us feel that the "investment" in freeloaders is/has not paid off and we should get out of that one too.
Originally posted by Red88FF: I certainly won't debate that that is a lot of moolah!. I would be interested to see other government expenses calculated by the minute. I think it must be thought of as an "investment" in the future. We shall have to just wait and see how it turns out.
I am quite sure that many of us feel that the "investment" in freeloaders is/has not paid off and we should get out of that one too.
I would love to think of it as an investment - but this is JUST the rebuild - and them maniacs are blowing the crap up as quick as we build it.
anyways - another thing many are overlooking is that the "boom" was created by all the easy credit & easy loans that suddenly became available. everyone suddenly had money - or felt like they had money - and spent spent spent. this of course fuels for a boom. and now - we are in "the hangover", as everyone is reaching their limits - or learning to spend only yesterdays money - NOT tomarrow's.
anyways - another thing many are overlooking is that the "boom" was created by all the easy credit & easy loans that suddenly became available. everyone suddenly had money - or felt like they had money - and spent spent spent. this of course fuels for a boom. and now - we are in "the hangover", as everyone is reaching their limits - or learning to spend only yesterdays money - NOT tomarrow's.
Funny how it is accepted that people spending on credit and boosting the economy and production which creates jobs and increasing tax revenues is somehow not trickle down economics. Oh ya but that doesn't work, heh. People spending like this is/was foolish and much as it pisses people off I think they are/were idiots.
Yes a hangover from something like this is far worse than trickle down tax cuts because it obviously is not sustainable like tax cuts are because the credit eventually runs out and has to be absorbed or paid back. BUT BUT BUT this hangover is a correction, not the sky is falling.
Originally posted by Red88FF: ...., Yes a hangover from something like this is far worse than trickle down tax cuts because it obviously is not sustainable like tax cuts are because the credit eventually runs out and has to be absorbed or paid back. BUT BUT BUT this hangover is a correction, not the sky is falling.
exactly. it feels so bad because of all the fun we had while people were selling off their futures. here in Michigan - the economy DOES SUCK. no doubt about it. people are hurting all over. but - yes - the sky is not falling. most of these folk barely got thru high school, and are 2nd gen UAW types. no ambition, no education. great combo. I myself am pretty damn lazy - but boy oh boy......
anyways - hopefully this massively devalued dollar makes "Made is USA" products a better value in the world market, and all of us can get a little.
and - the magical day I am waiting for - when the asians start demanding their fair share of all the work they are doing. 100 asians getting rich - 100,000 doing the work - that wont last. didnt last here - wont last there.
anyways - hopefully this massively devalued dollar makes "Made is USA" products a better value in the world market, and all of us can get a little.
and - the magical day I am waiting for - when the asians start demanding their fair share of all the work they are doing. 100 asians getting rich - 100,000 doing the work - that wont last. didnt last here - wont last there.
Yes the devalued dollar is going to help in a lot of ways, even though some are scared it will hurt other countries, I don't care, they too can have a correction! heh That is one advantage to nothing backing up the dollar other than confidence.
I don't know if China is ever going to get the chance to do what American workers have done, they are commies and do not enjoy the benefits of a free system of the people. But it would be great to see! not only for the boost for our manufacturing since our government won't support a "fair" trade ethic but I would like to see the average Chinese person prosper in their own right and not at the expense of Americans. I think their retirement plan is to die.
"commie" or communism is NOT actually an oppressive form of government. the root of it is "community", and when properly done - most citizens have a pretty decent way of life. unfortunately, greed of the leaders usually overwhelms - and you end up with a dictatorship, with several top layers, and one big fat layer of "workers" holding it up. thats what always bother me about any layout - that the people who actually do the work seem to be the least rewarded. it alwasy builds up, and always explodes.
I've always liked that aspect of the movie "Fight Club" - the lines about "we make your food, we make your cars, we clean up after you - dont frack with us". They are only on top because we let them.
anyways - maybe one day we will outgrow this concept of money. not sure what will replace it - not even close to a concept - but money certainly does not fit the bill anymore. the size/scales of larger corporations, where some peoples weekly pay is "normal" peoples yearly income for basicly equivalant work - something is amiss. and, things like the "entertainment industry". industry?? lol its people playing music, playing ball, pretending to be someone else, singing songs. but, whatever - I enjoy sports, movies & music - and we do have the best in the world.
its hard to ***** when ya got it so easy, eh? is it just jealousy? probably. at least they be making money, and hiring people, and making demands for the "high end" goods, which make for more jobs, and more services, which would never had been available. our type economy NEEDS high income people.
The consumer buying binge is over It's been said many times, but now consumers are truly tapped out, says Fortune's Geoff Colvin.
"Here I go. I am about to walk into one of the biggest sucker's games in the whole world of economics: declaring that the U.S. consumer is tapped out, so desperately in hock and troubled about the future that he finally just can't spend like it's 1999 anymore. And to be clear, that is what I'm declaring. Unless I can talk myself out of it by the end of the column.
I must be nuts. One of the most reliable ways to look like a business dope over the past several years has been to announce that the consumer spending party is finally over. Every year, usually in the fourth quarter, assorted boffins prove beyond doubt that U.S. consumers cannot possibly keep spending as they have been. Consumers then ignore those reports and keep right on spending anyway. "
