Yes you are floundering, that has nothing to do with the lunacy you posted and I responded too. But I will answer you. I believe there is one true God, my God. However despite your hatred of him I have never trashed your threads and never would.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 05-20-2015).]
Yes you are floundering, that has nothing to do with the loonacy you posted and I responded too. But I will answer you. I believe there is one true God, my God. However despite your hatred of him I have never trashed your threads and never would.
So Hermes performing a miracle is a lunacy and the Christian god performing a miracle is... a miracle. Fascinating!
Why would you ask a question like that, it's no secret that's what I believe if I'm a Christian and everyone knows it. You've made no point or exposed any great secret.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 05-20-2015).]
Sure, I've been guided by parents, elders, teachers... but the lessons that stick are the ones that are learned first hand.
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
I believe there is one true God, my God.
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
And why do you find that offensive if you confirmed it's true? Why did talking about the root of your morals offend you? You don't have to read the book, or follow the laws in the book so why do you have a problem if I or anyone else on this forum does?
Please, get down off the pulpit. I don't need to be preached to.
What I find "offensive" is your proclamation that anyone who doesn't believe in "one true God, my God" lacks a moral compass.
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
Somehow Atheists think they know everything and they have the moral high ground. However, without god there are no morals and all you have to serve is yourself. You live under man's law and your own which means you're capable of anything you can get away with or think you can get away with as long as it pleases you, because it's all about you. The only thing that keeps Atheists in check is their false sense of morals that are based off nothing.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-20-2015).]
It does get annoying when the religious people keep posting their beliefs.
I havent really noticed it very much. Whenever it does happen there are a couple folks who pop in to make fun and the thread hangs around long enough for everyone tio find something they dont apprecate about it.
Originally posted by Formula88: Was dennis "pressing" his beliefs on you with this thread? Has he posted in your threads about his religion?
I have to agree with that, putting a post on a forum isnt calling out Dratts for example and pushing a religious belief on him. so now we have gone from keep your beliefs at home, keep them out of office, out of workplace, out of schoo, to keeop them out of the forums you like to visit online. Sheesh.
Perfect example of why religious threads (discussion/debate) are a complete waste of time.
Maybe it is because most threads with a religious topic were never meant to be a platform for discussion or debate about faith. This one is a perfect example. OP didn't ask for any thoughts or debates about his beliefs. He wanted to express his happiness and thankfulness about a legal issue involving his kids. The only comments that are on topic are those that congratulated him for his good fortune. Everything else has been an unwelcome tangent driven by the most zealous group of people I know. If you don't believe, why do any of you feel such a strong need to convince others? To you it should be a non issue and not worth your time. Instead, this is the hottest thread right now. I'd like to see the formula that mathematically explains this phenomenon.
Did you see my "Hermes" post above? If I had posted this here, wouldn't have someone here thought I was a little strange?
If I believed that the Greek god Hermes had protected me from coming to harm in Miami traffic, I would fully expect to be ridiculed. Where is the difference? Because one god is more real than the other? The Greeks worshipped Hermes and his coterie for millennia...
Despite YOUR expectations, nobody stooped to your level and ridiculed and degraded you for that did they?
THERE is the difference.
The fact that you have stated that you believe yourself to be intellectually superior to dennis, and presumably other people of faith, and yet you are incapable of demonstrating any respect or tolerance for people who express views contrary to your own proves the lie to your imagined intellectual superiority.
Your apparent compulsion to continually lash out against religion says more about *you* than it does about religion my friend.
I have no entity to follow. If anyone feels that I am less for that, then... I know my past morals can never be atoned for, but I will not be tripped up because of what another believes my morals to be.
I have no entity to follow. If anyone feels that I am less for that, then... I know my past morals can never be atoned for, but I will not be tripped up because of what another believes my morals to be.
I would never think less of you for that. Your past *can* be atoned for if YOU want it to be. You have to decide what path to follow. Nobody else can make that decision for you.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-20-2015).]
I have to agree with that, putting a post on a forum isnt calling out Dratts for example and pushing a religious belief on him. so now we have gone from keep your beliefs at home, keep them out of office, out of workplace, out of schoo, to keeop them out of the forums you like to visit online. Sheesh.
No need to capitalize my name. My ego is way smaller than it used to be. I am totally aware of my insignificance in the universe. If anyone wants to call me out for my lack of belief they are welcome to but I won't start a thread about my agnosticism or how it saved me. It won't.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 05-20-2015).]
If you don't believe, why do any of you feel such a strong need to convince others?
I speak for myself and no one else speaks for me. Supply a quote where I'm trying to convince anybody to drop their religious beliefs.
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:
The only comments that are on topic are those that congratulated him for his good fortune. Everything else has been an unwelcome tangent driven by the most zealous group of people I know.
Yes Boostdreamer, what you said there just about nails it.
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
Somehow Atheists think they know everything and they have the moral high ground. However, without god there are no morals and all you have to serve is yourself. You live under man's law and your own which means you're capable of anything you can get away with or think you can get away with as long as it pleases you, because it's all about you. The only thing that keeps Atheists in check is their false sense of morals that are based off nothing.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-20-2015).]
No need to capitalize my name. My ego is way smaller than it used to be. I am totally aware of my insignificance in the universe. If anyone wants to call me out for my lack of belief they are welcome to but I won't start a thread about my agnosticism or how it saved me. It won't.
Capitalization was just due to me having forum names ingrained as names No biggee.
Originally posted by Tony Kania: I know my past morals can never be atoned for, but .
What makes you know this? I believe they can and have been. It is a guilt and worthlessness feeling that hold many people down.
"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree (cross), so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed” (1 Peter 2:24). Here again we see that Christ took the sins we committed onto Himself to pay the price for us. A few verses later we read, “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit” (1 Peter 3:18). Not only do these verses teach us about the substitute that Christ was for us, but they also teach that He was the atonement, meaning He satisfied the payment due for the sinfulness of man.
God’s Son, Jesus Christ, came to earth to pay for the price of our sins. Because He did this for us, we now have the opportunity to not only have our sins forgiven, but to spend eternity with Him. In order to do this we must place our faith in what Christ died on the cross. We cannot save ourselves; we need a substitute to take our place. The death of Jesus Christ is the substitutionary atonement." -
Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Check out the account of the theif who was being punished on a cross next to Jesus.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-20-2015).]
So now certain threads are restricted to "believers"? That's an interesting development.
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:
If not, what purpose is your participation in this "religious" thread?
I voiced my concern with an offensive post. (Not difficult to track down as I've repeated it a few times.) And I'll voice my concern again when necessary.
I voiced my concern with an offensive post. (Not difficult to track down as I've repeated it a few times.) And I'll voice my concern again when necessary.
It's not offensive if it's true, even less offensive after you've confirmed it's true. To be a atheist you have to think you know everything. Your thought and feelings are where your morals come from but they are just that, thoughts and feelings which amount to nothing.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 05-20-2015).]
It's not offensive if it's true, even less offensive after you've confirmed it's true. To be a atheist you have to think you know everything. Your thought and feelings are where your morals come from but they are just that, thoughts and feelings which amount to nothing.
As an onlooker to your conversation, I'm not sure your technique is causing the communication to move forward.
As an onlooker to your conversation, I'm not sure your technique is causing the communication to move forward.
And maybe your right, I am baffled by how the truth could be offensive but I do know it's upsetting to Patrick even though I don't think it should be. I'm going to stop this is ridiculous, if patrick would like to PM instead of trashing this thread, that's fine but I'd like to see this thread no longer be a soap box for both sides.
I didnt think Patricks response was over the top. Not that its up to me.
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
(jmbishop) As an onlooker to your conversation, I'm not sure your technique is causing the communication to move forward.
I may not share your religious beliefs, but I've always appreciated that you remain level headed in these type of discussions. Thank-you.
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
It's not offensive if it's true, even less offensive after you've confirmed it's true. To be a atheist you have to think you know everything. Your thought and feelings are where your morals come from but they are just that, thoughts and feelings which amount to nothing.
Do you realize how delusional that sounds? No, I guess you probably don't.
Look, I don't have any problem with you personally. I appreciate your input in the tech forums, but man oh man, what you're saying in this thread is a little scary.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-20-2015).]
I am baffled by how the truth could be offensive but I do know it's upsetting to Patrick even though I don't think it should be.
Your "truth" is just that... your truth. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It you don't understand that concept, then any/all discussion is pointless.
I voiced my concern with an offensive post. (Not difficult to track down as I've repeated it a few times.) And I'll voice my concern again when necessary.
A simple "I don't answer questions" is fine. I won't ask any more.
That's fine, I've got a Fiero outside waiting to be worked on.
You can give your favorite color as an answer to a math problem, too, if you want to. I asked if you were a believer. There was nothing in your response that addresses that. I asked if you wanted to congratulate Dennis. You did not address that. I asked for your purpose of participation. You indicated that you saw a post that needed your response but you failed to say which one so that is an incomplete answer at best. Your method of answering questions seems to indicate you align yourself politically with democrats.
I haven't really responded much to the fighting on this thread, I have been reflecting on how to address it. This threads title was not "I have proof you are wrong to not believe in God". The purpose of this thread was not to debate the existence of God. This thread had two purposes. 1. If a forum member had just saved your family, possibly your children from mortal danger and a lifetime of trauma, who wouldn't put a thread up praising them? It may not have been a forum member, but credit to where credit is due. 2. Others are going through rough times also, and this may help someone else in a impossible struggle.
It was also marked religion, so anyone who didn't want to see religious threads, didn't have to. I was under the understanding, that is why we have a way to denote religious or political threads.
Oh baloney. It's delusional talk like this that turns thinking people off.
[EDIT] Pray tell, where do your morals come from? A book? I'd rather have my morals guided by empathy than by something I've been instructed to follow.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Your "truth" is just that... your truth. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It you don't understand that concept, then any/all discussion is pointless.
Now who's "delusional"?
Rather than living by *your truth* or *my truth* or even by your personal *empathy*, I am very thankful that we live in a society that is run by BOOKS of *laws*. Those laws which are essentially *morals* largely derived, (at least here), from a very long Judeo-Christian heritage and codified, recorded and agreed upon for us all to follow to prevent precisely the vagaries, whims and chaos of everyone's personal "empathy".
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-20-2015).]
Originally posted by Boostdreamer: I don't know if this is directed at me and if it is, I don't know what it means.
I dont think Patricks response seems out of line. If you look at his first post he responded to something Jmbishop said which was sort of open ended twards a group of people instead of an individual. Anyone still participating in this thread I recommend taking some deep breaths and re reading and realizing its not only the perspective of two sides here, but alot of individuals.
It sounds like something is missing from your experience. I hope the next time, God makes peace with you.
Damn dude. That's pretty rude of you. He clearly stated he believes; does God require a huge experience every time?
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:
First off, I'm happy for you that your issue was resolved.
Now, you say that proof of God is that He intervened in a legal matter on your behalf? Man, I wish your God would do that for all the people that DIE unjustly all over the place, every day! He's pretty arbitrary, your God.
Shame on you.
quote
Originally posted by RACE:
Steve, your theology will eventually get corrected. I've already taken your case before the God that you don't believe in.
Dennis 6, welcome to your mew life. Keep the faith brother.
I've heard this before, from this forum. "You will believe one day."
You don't even realize how you sound. When I was a Christian, I wanted people to believe for their own sakes. This makes it seem like you want to see the fright in their face as they die and see that they're wrong.
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
It's not offensive if it's true, even less offensive after you've confirmed it's true. To be a atheist you have to think you know everything. Your thought and feelings are where your morals come from but they are just that, thoughts and feelings which amount to nothing.
Not true. I'm an atheist because I don't believe there is a god. I don't know for sure. Who said I know everything?
My thoughts and feelings are just electrical bleeps in my head and my consciousness is no more than just a result of everything that has happened up until now. I choose to accept conventionally held ideas of self and morals because it makes life easier to do so. I know how I feel when I'm happy and I know how I feel when I'm not. I choose to live to be happy because it gives me the most pleasure, even if that pleasure is just a chemical reaction due to a response of choices I had no part of and random impulses that have no meaning. So yeah, they amount to nothing. But I'm happy.
I don't think your belief system is sound. But I stay out of it, because I was a Believer once, and discussing religion was not edifying. It made me angry, at people like Wichita, who couldn't leave well enough alone.
This whole thread is sad. Who the **** cares what Dennis's belief system is? Just be happy for him. I am. The State can be brutal to children.
Originally posted by theBDub: This whole thread is sad. Who the **** cares what Dennis's belief system is? Just be happy for him. I am. The State can be brutal to children.
I dont think Patricks response seems out of line. If you look at his first post he responded to something Jmbishop said which was sort of open ended twards a group of people instead of an individual. Anyone still participating in this thread I recommend taking some deep breaths and re reading and realizing its not only the perspective of two sides here, but alot of individuals.
So it wasn't directed at me then? Ok, because I have not said anything about Patrick's posts being out of line. What is out of line is that this thread was posted correctly in TO/T and correctly identified as Religion yet it is like ringing the dinner bell for a pack of hungry dogs who seemingly are completely unable to control themselves when religious threads develop. They seem to have no conscious choice in the matter because they HAVE to post in them. They obviously cannot control themselves because they do it over and over and over, ad nauseam. Why? Why? Why? I have repeatedly asked that question. Still no answers on that one. I can only come to one conclusion and that is that they are unwitting agents of Satan. Yep, our fellow forum members must be caught in ol' Satan's web and they are being forced to do his work. What else can it be? Seriously, who in their right mind (or soul) spends so much time and effort saying something doesn't exist? It is simply insane if that is what they truly believe yet they continue to work so hard to disprove something that is a "fairytale" to them.
If there is a God and if there is a Satan, doesn't it seem likely that Satan's message to the world would be that God doesn't exist? Who else would try so hard to get that message out? Patrick? I seriously doubt it. There are greater forces out there and you will pick a side either actively or passively. You have been warned. Your destiny is in your hands and your heart. I sincerely hope you choose wisely.
Damn dude. That's pretty rude of you. He clearly stated he believes; does God require a huge experience every time?
Not rude at all. I wished him better than what he seemed to have. It has nothing to do with a huge experience. He seemed very "ho-hum" about his salvation experience. He also seems to be implying that he is a Christian yet he never mentioned Jesus Christ in his experience. If Jesus wasn't there, no wonder it felt "typical" instead of inspirational. In the Christian faith, a man CANNOT make peace with God. People have to make peace with JESUS and it is He that makes the peace for you with God. It is that experience that I wish for him, you, and everyone here. Definitely not a rude thing to wish.
Not rude at all. I wished him better than what he seemed to have. It has nothing to do with a huge experience. He seemed very "ho-hum" about his salvation experience. He also seems to be implying that he is a Christian yet he never mentioned Jesus Christ in his experience. If Jesus wasn't there, no wonder it felt "typical" instead of inspirational. In the Christian faith, a man CANNOT make peace with God. People have to make peace with JESUS and it is He that makes the peace for you with God. It is that experience that I wish for him, you, and everyone here. Definitely not a rude thing to wish.
I never said I haven't met Jesus. I was ho-hum about my salvation experience, because I have come to reject what the church has packaged. You can do all the the steps on the Billy Graham website, and never know God. All that is required, is belief. Everything else is a fruit of the Spirit. I know it goes against the grain it took me a long, long time to break from dogma, and understand the Gospel. I don't really want to turn this into a religious debate. You can rest assured that my faith is based on the sacrifice at Calgary. I don't really feel, anymore needs said.
The following quote is not directed at anyone or the forum, just something I have recently found to be inspirational. “We do not find happiness by being assertive. We don't find happiness by running over people because we see what we want and they are in the way of that happiness so we either abandon them or we smash them. The Scriptures don't teach us to be assertive. The Scriptures teach us—and this is remarkable—the Scriptures teach us to be submissive. This is not a popular idea.” ― Rich Mullins
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 05-20-2015).]
I can only come to one conclusion and that is that they are unwitting agents of Satan. Yep, our fellow forum members must be caught in ol' Satan's web and they are being forced to do his work.
If there is a God and if there is a Satan, doesn't it seem likely that Satan's message to the world would be that God doesn't exist? Who else would try so hard to get that message out? Patrick? I seriously doubt it. There are greater forces out there and you will pick a side either actively or passively. You have been warned. Your destiny is in your hands and your heart. I sincerely hope you choose wisely.
Oh. My. Goodness.
I just checked in (as I'm still in the process of installing an EGR tube), but seriously man... you've gone completely over the edge.
Of all the forum members you could've chosen, why would you associate me with Satan?
Gotta get back outside... you know what they say about idle hands.
I think it's pretty clear why this thread went on the tangent it did. He OP's focus was not on how great it was that his legal fortunes had changed for the better, and unexpectedly.
It was first and foremost about the "fact" that this turn of events is PROOF of the existence of HIS god.
Since the Christian god is pretty exclusive, that means he's right and everyone else (non-believers, believers in other faiths) is wrong.
Of course people in those groups will strongly disagree. Why shouldn't they?
I know my past morals can never be atoned for, but I will not be tripped up because of what another believes my morals to be.
No biggee.
