...pizza.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: First off, I'm happy for you that your issue was resolved. Now, you say that proof of God is that He intervened in a legal matter on your behalf? Man, I wish your God would do that for all the people that DIE unjustly all over the place, every day! He's pretty arbitrary, your God.

Typical argument, but not valid unless you know everything. Do you know everything? Do you think you would know better than God? Sin/suffering is of man, the plan is God and if you don't want a part of that plan he is not forcing it on you. I have seen God cure cancer, I was there for the diagnosis and she was told she had a short time to live with stage 4 bone cancer, and I was there when the doctor said he could no longer find signs of cancer. Had this not happened she may have lost her faith when a drunk driver committed suicide 100mph backwards on the highway killing her granddaughter. However God showing her he is real has given her peace knowing she will see her granddaughter again.

[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 05-15-2015).]

quote Originally posted by jmbishop: I have seen God cure cancer, I was there for the diagnosis and she was told she had a short time to live with stage 4 bone cancer, and I was there when the doctor said he could no longer find signs of cancer. Had this not happened she may have lost her faith when a drunk driver committed suicide 100mph backwards on the highway killing her granddaughter. However God showing her he is real has given her peace knowing she will see her granddaughter again.

Man, that's batshit crazy. But whatever makes sense for people and keeps them happy, I guess.

Belief in God may be expressed anyway you like. Me, I have given the results over to God. I make general requests usually but, I am thankful for any answer that is given. I tend to find God has a sick sense of humor. The younger of my 2 sisters had 2 boys, one shortly after another when her youngest girl was about to enter high school and being a cancer survivor, it was a surprise being that she was already in her late 40s also.
God told me to stay with my wife. God let my son get leukemia. God also told me he would survive. God let my Dad have cancer and took him with almost no rest after retirement.
To interpret as the truth what God has chosen to do would be asking to play God. I will say how going to take it, no matter the truth because, the lesson will make me a better person. To stay with my wife because she is such a pain because she needs someone to make her strong. I learned later that my son said he was suicidal, and he is being told to appreciate the life that he has while he has it. My Dad could not let others do work that he could afford to pay for, it consumed all his time, and it kept him from being there for my mother. Left my Mom with a lot of things that were unfinished and lots of money. She would of preferred more time with him while he was alive.

quote Originally posted by TK: I think this is the first time I've seen a thread where both sides are saying he did it wrong. I don't understand the people here that are disappointed they didn't get what they wanted out of it. Dennis, if you got what you needed, good for you.

Ty, It was the darkest part of my life, and its gonna be alright now.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Man, that's batshit crazy. But whatever makes sense for people and keeps them happy, I guess.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

quote Originally posted by jmbishop: It's not really for you to say.

Which part?

quote Originally posted by jmbishop: I have seen God cure cancer

No you haven't you saw a medical mystery (which isn't the first) had zero explanation, so chalked it up to Gods doing. You didn't "see" or "witness" god do anything. You witnessed something you didn't have an explanation to or understand, and gave god credit.. Like people have been doing for thousands of years when they don't understand how or why something happened.

But hey man, if believing something like that gives you comfort, or just helps you deal with things in life that you cannot explain, then all the power to ya..

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 05-16-2015).]

I know where arguing with you people goes, your trying to prove something you can't and if it was reality, humanity would be depraved animals. Your not interested in anything other than the argument.

quote Originally posted by jmbishop: I know where arguing with you people goes, your trying to prove something you can't and if it was reality, humanity would be depraved animals. Your not interested in anything other than the argument.

I believe you to be a morally correct man. God or not.

I also believe I may have went off on you a long time ago regarding some odd thing or the other. It has bothered me. You left for a moment afterward, and I have always felt bad about that. I apologize. I misunderstood where you were coming from. I have thought of this damn near every time that I read your postings.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: I believe you to be a morally correct man. God or not. I also believe I may have went off on you a long time ago regarding some odd thing or the other. It has bothered me. You left for a moment afterward, and I have always felt bad about that. I apologize. I misunderstood where you were coming from. I have thought of this damn near every time that I read your postings.

Thanks, I don't remember what specific thing it was but I know it had to have been partially or mostly my fault, I started posting young and I'm still young. I apologize to you and other forum members I've had negative exchanges with.

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: But hey man, if believing something like that gives you comfort, or just helps you deal with things in life that you cannot explain, then all the power to ya..

But not really huh?
If you wished well and "all power to you " Would you have told him how wrong he was?

Different day. Same bullshit.

'Well every prayer ends with 'god answered my prayer' or 'it's gods will'. You've pretty much got your 'proof' either way, but whatever gives you comfort without hurting or control of others is pretty much ok with me.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: But not really huh? If you wished well and "all power to you " Would you have told him how wrong he was?

I'm not seeing the contradiction here. Jonesy told dennis that he was most probably wrong in assigning the surprising turn in his legal issues to supernatural intervention but if that made him feel better, he had no problem with it (Jonesy may be feeling somewhat sorry for dennis on an intellectual level, I suspect, as do I). If you post an obviously controversial position in a public discussion forum, you will get some people that call BS. What did everyone expect? A chorus of "Hallelujah"?

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-16-2015).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I'm not seeing the contradiction here. Jonesy told dennis that he was most probably wrong in assigning the surprising turn in his legal issues to supernatural intervention but if that made him feel better, he had no problem with it (Jonesy may be feeling somewhat sorry for dennis on an intellectual level, I suspect, as do I). If you post an obviously controversial position in a public discussion forum, you will get some people that call BS. What did everyone expect? A chorus of "Hallelujah"?

It would far easier to take credit myself, for being just that good in how I handle things, than to give credit elsewhere. However, credit to where credit is due.
The court was pushing termination of rights over BS from the day one, that is all they wanted to talk about. , However good my lawyer is, he was not that good. and he was shocked.
Understand the county attorney has said many times that his only job is to win. In other words, it is not his job to make sure justice is served, but only to win.
In family court, they don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you do. This was dismissed before evidence from our side was even given a chance to be heard.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 05-16-2015).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I'm not seeing the contradiction here. Jonesy told dennis that he was most probably wrong in assigning the surprising turn in his legal issues to supernatural intervention but if that made him feel better, he had no problem with it (Jonesy may be feeling somewhat sorry for dennis on an intellectual level, I suspect, as do I). If you post an obviously controversial position in a public discussion forum, you will get some people that call BS. What did everyone expect? A chorus of "Hallelujah"?

Bla bla?

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: ... In family court, ...

Those that have never been through such a thing could never understand. It is NOT about justice. Money. Money is the goal. From all sides. If you draw out hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of cases (Macomb County Michigan for instance), a cash cow presents itself. Mentioned county has over 170,000 FOC cases. Subtract a tiny sum of $1.75 each week, from each parent, and you can see where a few dollars meet the standards of a fine county prosecutor. Truths are not looked upon, and accusations can win arguments.

Edit: **** it. I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars into child support. Basicazlly I am supporting a woman that is a troll. The amount taken is astronomical. No justice kiddies. And, thanks to Obama Care, this continues for a full 25 years. Not your old 18 like when your fathers would walk to school up hill. Both ways. Eh.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-17-2015).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Those that have never been through such a thing could never understand. It is NOT about justice. Money. Money is the goal. From all sides. If you draw out hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of cases (Macomb County Michigan for instance), a cash cow presents itself. Mentioned county has over 170,000 FOC cases. Subtract a tiny sum of $1.75 each week, from each parent, and you can see where a few dollars meet the standards of a fine county prosecutor. Truths are not looked upon, and accusations can win arguments. Edit: **** it. I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars into child support. Basicazlly I am supporting a woman that is a troll. The amount taken is astronomical. No justice kiddies. And, thanks to Obama Care, this continues for a full 25 years. Not your old 18 like when your fathers would walk to school up hill. Both ways. Eh.

An assassin would be cheaper. And more just.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Those that have never been through such a thing could never understand. It is NOT about justice. Money. Money is the goal. From all sides. If you draw out hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of cases (Macomb County Michigan for instance), a cash cow presents itself. Mentioned county has over 170,000 FOC cases. Subtract a tiny sum of $1.75 each week, from each parent, and you can see where a few dollars meet the standards of a fine county prosecutor. Truths are not looked upon, and accusations can win arguments. Edit: **** it. I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars into child support. Basicazlly I am supporting a woman that is a troll. The amount taken is astronomical. No justice kiddies. And, thanks to Obama Care, this continues for a full 25 years. Not your old 18 like when your fathers would walk to school up hill. Both ways. Eh.

I am extremely sorry this happened to you, you are 100 percent correct when you say it's about money.

It's actually about money AND VOTES. When election time comes around they can say, "we collected X dollars for single mothers and children."

I went thru this myself. Child support caused me to lose two houses, a car, and a motorcycle. It also forced me into bankruptcy and kept me from seeing my kids for most of their lives. Because my support was so high, I had to work every available minute of overtime. Then when you make more money, they want a larger chunk of it. You just can't win. I know I paid over $200K but I stopped counting because I didn't want to think about it any more than I had to.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-17-2015).]

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: It's actually about money AND VOTES. When election time comes around they can say, "we collected X dollars for single mothers and children." I went thru this myself. Child support caused me to lose two houses, a car, and a motorcycle. It also forced me into bankruptcy and kept me from seeing my kids for most of their lives. Because my support was so high, I had to work every available minute of overtime. Then when you make more money, they want a larger chunk of it. You just can't win. I know I paid over $200K but I stopped counting because I didn't want to think about it any more than I had to.

This wasn't my wife taking kids, this was the state.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 05-17-2015).]

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: This wasn't my wife taking kids, this was the state.

I would keep details like this "offline."


Not sure why people feel the need to dig into a persons beliefs when they come forward to share 'good news'. Even my original reply was chock full of concentrated dumbassness. Dennis didn't knock on my door and spray me in the face with God juice or hit me in the knee caps with a holy baseball bat and then tattoo "I wuv Jesus " on my forehead,but I replied as if he had...
I don't like people getting suckered or hurt or stunted due to rules or beliefs, it's a sore spot because of a few folks I know but this wasn't the case here. The "pizza" reply cracked me up, though...

I hope things turn out well.

quote Originally posted by TheDigitalAlchemist: I would keep details like this "offline." Not sure why people feel the need to dig into a persons beliefs when they come forward to share 'good news'. Even my original reply was chock full of concentrated dumbassness. Dennis didn't knock on my door and spray me in the face with God juice or hit me in the knee caps with a holy baseball bat and then tattoo "I wuv Jesus " on my forehead,but I replied as if he had... I don't like people getting suckered or hurt or stunted due to rules or beliefs, it's a sore spot because of a few folks I know but this wasn't the case here. The "pizza" reply cracked me up, though... I hope things turn out well.

I will keep details offline, its a nightmare beyond comprehension, one of those, this doesn't happen in America things. I know enough that I could have got "even", but nothing I could have ever done would have brought the outcome, that happened.

Been experiencing bits and pieces of nightmarish interactions with "the system" and individuals who are supposed to be helping others (and being REALLY well paid to do so.) hope your nightmare ends soon...

[This message has been edited by TheDigitalAlchemist (edited 05-18-2015).]

As I you. Nothing worse than the system, becoming the nightmare, it is supposed to prevent.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: This wasn't my wife taking kids, this was the state.

I understand that. I was just letting you know that I could feel your pain. It is often nice to know that the boat you are rowing to agony is being propelled by others in similar situations. I'm glad yours worked out so much more quickly than mine. Mine did also but only within the last few years. Now my oldest son works for the same company I do and we see each other daily. Even so, there is no way to make up for lost time. There are infinite moments and memories of their lives that I will never know, or be a part of. That still hurts.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: I understand that. I was just letting you know that I could feel your pain. It is often nice to know that the boat you are rowing to agony is being propelled by others in similar situations. I'm glad yours worked out so much more quickly than mine. Mine did also but only within the last few years. Now my oldest son works for the same company I do and we see each other daily. Even so, there is no way to make up for lost time. There are infinite moments and memories of their lives that I will never know, or be a part of. That still hurts.

We still managed to miss two of the kids birthdays, and Mothers day. There is no way to make up for the screaming year and a half child, that doesn't understand why mommy and daddy don't save her from being drug off again. There is something seriously wrong with this nation, and if we don't wake up it's "I was just following orders", all over again. I am sorry for your pain, and I know nothing will ever make it right.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: First off, I'm happy for you that your issue was resolved. Now, you say that proof of God is that He intervened in a legal matter on your behalf? Man, I wish your God would do that for all the people that DIE unjustly all over the place, every day! He's pretty arbitrary, your God.

You couldn't have just said your happy for him and left it at that, you had to wipe your ass with the thread? We get it, you don't believe in anything beyond yourself. That's fine. How about showing some of the much vaunted but seldom seen liberal tolerance and let him have his own beliefs and be done with it?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You couldn't have just said your happy for him and left it at that, you had to wipe your ass with the thread? We get it, you don't believe in anything beyond yourself. That's fine. How about showing some of the much vaunted but seldom seen liberal tolerance and let him have his own beliefs and be done with it?

If you post on a public discussion forum, this is what you get. Some people agree with you, some don't. Note that the thread title wasn't "I'm so happy that my legal troubles are over, and so surprisingly" but "There is a god and he has delivered me...".

A strong statement will attract strong opinions, either way.

I stand by what I said: I'm happy that his trouble is over but the god thing is pure BS and actually extremely self-centered IMO ("I'm so damn important that the creator of the universe will personally intervene in my legal case"). If I were pious, I'd probably think that was blasphemy...!

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-18-2015).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: If you post on a public discussion forum, this is what you get. Some people agree with you, some don't. Note that the thread title wasn't "I'm so happy that my legal troubles are over, and so surprisingly" but "There is a god and he has delivered me...". A strong statement will attract strong opinions, either way. I stand by what I said: I'm happy that his trouble is over but the god thing is pure BS and actually extremely self-centered IMO ("I'm so damn important that the creator of the universe will personally intervene in my legal case"). If I were pious, I'd probably think that was blasphemy...!

You really take ******* to a new level. You are a petty and childish person. I'm sorry I ever met you.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: If you post on a public discussion forum, this is what you get. Some people agree with you, some don't. Note that the thread title wasn't "I'm so happy that my legal troubles are over, and so surprisingly" but "There is a god and he has delivered me...". A strong statement will attract strong opinions, either way. I stand by what I said: I'm happy that his trouble is over but the god thing is pure BS and actually extremely self-centered IMO ("I'm so damn important that the creator of the universe will personally intervene in my legal case"). If I were pious, I'd probably think that was blasphemy...!

I am truly sorry you feel that way, it wasn't that God thought I was all important, it was that in his infinite grace, felt compassion for me. It is truly humbling, I haven't done anything to deserve His grace.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You couldn't have just said you're happy for him and left it at that, you had to wipe your ass with the thread? We get it, you don't believe in anything beyond yourself. That's fine. How about showing some of the much vaunted but seldom seen liberal tolerance and let him have his own beliefs and be done with it?

He has gone on the defensive despite that he has almost been ignored. All this God talk offends him. I'm not to interested in arguing with him, If he is going to reject god, he has the right to do so, the only thing we can do is tell the truth and be an example.

Somehow Atheists think they know everything and they have the moral high ground. However, without god there are no morals and all you have to serve is yourself. You live under man's law and your own which means you're capable of anything you can get away with or think you can get away with as long as it pleases you, because it's all about you. The only thing that keeps Atheists in check is their false sense of morals that are based off nothing.

Atheists aren't really atheists, a atheist by definition has to believe that he knows everything because that's the only way you could know there is no God. So they may claim to be a atheist but they are really Agnostic which means they aren't sure, God is neither proven or disproven by science.

There is a sub category who are so delusional that they have a faith in science, it's become it's own religion. They ignore the scientific process and preach theory as fact. Real science does not work this way once you cross that line you are practicing religion instead. This is how evolution, global warming and the big bang have become so popular despite missing observed science or being disproven by fact. Take a look at Stephen Hawking, he was facing death and saw what he wanted to see because he didn't want to believe in god. His work is now useless, it's been destroyed by observable science but it's been taught for so long it's accepted as fact for no other reason than the "faith" we had in "science".

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: We still managed to miss two of the kids birthdays, and Mothers day. There is no way to make up for the screaming year and a half child, that doesn't understand why mommy and daddy don't save her from being drug off again. There is something seriously wrong with this nation, and if we don't wake up it's "I was just following orders", all over again. I am sorry for your pain, and I know nothing will ever make it right.

Will be praying for your families.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: I am truly sorry you feel that way, it wasn't that God thought I was all important, it was that in his infinite grace, felt compassion for me. It is truly humbling, I haven't done anything to deserve His grace.

Again, I'm very happy things worked out for you. It doesn't fix what was missed but I hope it's the beginning of better times for you and your family. Having friends who've dealt with family court, I can appreciate how arbitrary it feels. It sometimes seems like it's designed to cause the most disruption and harm rather than prevent it.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Again, I'm very happy things worked out for you. It doesn't fix what was missed but I hope it's the beginning of better times for you and your family. Having friends who've dealt with family court, I can appreciate how arbitrary it feels. It sometimes seems like it's designed to cause the most disruption and harm rather than prevent it.

See, as soon as the supernatural is taken out of the equation, we agree 100%!

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: It's actually about money AND VOTES. When election time comes around they can say, "we collected X dollars for single mothers and children." I went thru this myself. Child support caused me to lose two houses, a car, and a motorcycle. It also forced me into bankruptcy and kept me from seeing my kids for most of their lives. Because my support was so high, I had to work every available minute of overtime. Then when you make more money, they want a larger chunk of it. You just can't win. I know I paid over $200K but I stopped counting because I didn't want to think about it any more than I had to.

It's just all part of God's plan for you. Have faith in him.

quote Originally posted by jmbishop: ... Somehow Atheists think they know everything and they have the moral high ground. However, without god there are no morals and all you have to serve is yourself. You live under man's law and your own which means you're capable of anything you can get away with or think you can get away with as long as it pleases you, because it's all about you. The only thing that keeps Atheists in check is their false sense of morals that are based off nothing. ...

Disclaimer: I do not consider myself an Atheist. Nor a believer.

Not believing in a deity has led me to my own moral ground. These morals are Christian based. I wish more Christians were more "Christian".

Right, but it's based on you and what you feel is best. So is it wrong for you to have no morals if you don't think you need them? I'm not saying people who aren't believers don't have morals, they just aren't guided by anything but themselves and it's not really based on anything but feelings.

Christians are one of the biggest deterrents for becoming a christian, There are too many false prophets and to many people who aren't willing to live as christians. The % of the bible people have been told vs the % people have read is sickening as well.

[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 05-19-2015).]