Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  300WHP Supernatural 3.XX Coming Soon! (Page 13)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version

This topic is 14 pages long:  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14 
Previous Page | Next Page
next newest topic | next oldest topic
300WHP Supernatural 3.XX Coming Soon! by La fiera
Started on: 01-01-2018 09:47 PM
Replies: 534 (17065 views)
Last post by: La fiera on 01-15-2024 10:39 AM
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-29-2022 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

Now that you've got this build done, and before you start your next build, can you please make a list here of all the mods that you made? The post is 12 pages long now and I'm too lazy to go through with a fine-toothed comb to make the list myself


That would be too easy! Like installing an LS or a turbo!!
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2022 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

Now that you've got this build done, and before you start your next build, can you please make a list here of all the mods that you made? The post is 12 pages long now and I'm too lazy to go through with a fine-toothed comb to make the list myself


https://youtu.be/jqzdOPSqLbg

This will help you!
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-27-2022 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://youtu.be/oFQFaqonhk4

!

The 3.7L Supernatural snapped a brand new axle. Good thing it's under warranty! I installed these new ones with the engine so they have no miles. With the 3.4L would take several dyno sessions and several mileage but I was stomped at how fast this one snapped, maybe 20 miles on it? Will, how many axles I've broken? I lost count!


IP: Logged
pmbrunelle
Member
Posts: 4372
From: Grand-Mère, Québec
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 62
Rate this member

Report this Post06-27-2022 10:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe it's time for drive-by-wire! Maybe there's a happy medium where the throttle response is slowed down enough to reduce the shocks on the drivetrain, but not enough to slow you down on the track.

********************************************************************************

As long as you're using the F23 transmission, I guess you're stuck with those splines. Maybe you could get the tripots cryo-treated?

Otherwise, I've been wondering about the benefits of an undercut at the end of splines:


Is there room for a bigger undercut, and would a bigger undercut be beneficial?

I have this exact question for a splined shaft in a work-related project; if my work colleague has some time for me in the coming weeks, I'll ask him to do some FEA comparisons of splines with/without undercut.

I think that cutting the undercut larger would be relatively doable on a lathe. From memory, Fiero tripots have centre holes on both sides, so it would be easy to get the tripot set up between centres.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 06-27-2022).]

IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-27-2022 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was thinking about the cryotreating also!
IP: Logged
Trinten
Member
Posts: 1346
From: Mebane, N.C.
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score:    (8)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-27-2022 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So it looks like you are shearing off the flange stub?

If that's the case, you could talk with a group like G-Force to see if they would machine you a custom set of flanges that will connect to the stock half-shafts. Then if you do bust the half-shafts, you can work with them or Dutchman to have those made.

I don't know if any companies made stronger cv axles for any cars that came with the F23, but that might be worth some checking into as well?
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-28-2022 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

So it looks like you are shearing off the flange stub?

If that's the case, you could talk with a group like G-Force to see if they would machine you a custom set of flanges that will connect to the stock half-shafts. Then if you do bust the half-shafts, you can work with them or Dutchman to have those made.

I don't know if any companies made stronger cv axles for any cars that came with the F23, but that might be worth some checking into as well?


Thank you Vince! I'll give them a call today!
IP: Logged
Will
Member
Posts: 14216
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 237
Rate this member

Report this Post06-29-2022 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Maybe it's time for drive-by-wire! Maybe there's a happy medium where the throttle response is slowed down enough to reduce the shocks on the drivetrain, but not enough to slow you down on the track.



It's not throttle response... it's dropping the clutch on sticky tires.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/.../000121-18.html#p708

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:









The track prep was very good. One of the first guys I talked to before I made my first run said that traction was good.

There were only a couple of other street cars there... Two Hondas running in the 10.2 range. I was the fastest real street car there, although a couple of the obviously dedicated drag cars that showed up on trailers had plates. I think the fastest time I saw on the board was 5.0xx, but I only watched a fraction of the passes that evening.

I was working on both my launch technique and my clean-off spin technique. I overdid the clean off spins and had some minor wheel hop. That may have contributed to the CV spline failure. I had the clean off spin perfected for the 4th pass..., just the right RPM and clutch slip to get 1-2 full revolutions of the tires with no wheel hop.

By the time I made my 4th run, both tires and pavement were nice and sticky. I was getting used to the clutch and felt that I had the RPM and slip figured out to cut at least a 1.8 short time if not a 1.7. Obviously, there were other circumstances of which I was not aware. If I'd done the 1.7, I definitely would have gotten a 7.9.



Note that mine wrung off directly through the splines rather than at that undercut. The splines remaining on the cup are angled, demonstrating that the shaft twisted before shearing.
I had a hardness check done, but I'm not sure it was done correctly, as the results are REALLY low (like RC26 low... I'm not sure they could actually be that soft and still do the job)

IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2022 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Finally got it to where I can drive it to the dyno on its own power. After fixing the fuel flow problem, the ECU setting problems and other problems I was able to Dyno it. But driving to the dyno and at the dyno I had a problem, it didn't wanted to go over 5000RPMs. It felt like it was hitting the rev limiter even though I set the limiter at 9000RPMs. I did log every pull so I got plenty of data to analyze.
This is the Camaro 3.4L bored out to meet 3.7L, same iron heads, no juice, super or turbo charger; all NA.

324WHP & 360WtQ @ 4900RPMs
IP: Logged
Trinten
Member
Posts: 1346
From: Mebane, N.C.
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score:    (8)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-18-2022 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Congratulations on hitting your goal!

You set out to find a way to do it, and to stay within the racing class restrictions. Thank you for sharing with us (here and on youtube) about the efforts and thought you put into making it work - right down to weighing valve train components!

Hopefully your spark issue won't be anything crazy. I recall seeing a few articles that got into the science behind different ignition systems, with a focus on coil packs. In short it seemed when you got into specialized territory like you have, there starts to be some "give and take" around picking an ignition system that best meets the range the engine will most often be running in.
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-18-2022 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Congratulations on hitting your goal!

You set out to find a way to do it, and to stay within the racing class restrictions. Thank you for sharing with us (here and on youtube) about the efforts and thought you put into making it work - right down to weighing valve train components!

Hopefully your spark issue won't be anything crazy. I recall seeing a few articles that got into the science behind different ignition systems, with a focus on coil packs. In short it seemed when you got into specialized territory like you have, there starts to be some "give and take" around picking an ignition system that best meets the range the engine will most often be running in.


Thank you Vince for your encouraging words!
I'ts been a long journey since I have to figure things on my own without any guide because nobody has gone as far as me to exploit this platform to its maximum potential and that adds another level of difficulty. But thanks to today's information technology I can find lots of info that 10 years ago I would only dreamed about getting my hands on. I'm talking about scientific research papers on different aspects of engine design and development that I have studied and applied to my project and now we can see the result. It's very labor intensive, lots of reading and calculations, sleepless nights and saving money to make that "one of" part I spent so much time improving. The ignition problem is being addressed as we speak. I've been gathering hardware to improve the ignition system to be more reliable and precise. As you can see there's much power to be had at the higher RPMs!
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
lou_dias
Member
Posts: 5252
From: Warwick, RI
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post09-19-2022 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I forgot to ask about your fuel pump. What are you running?
You should ask your dyno guy to also overlay the a/f ratio...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 09-19-2022).]

IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-19-2022 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

I forgot to ask about your fuel pump. What are you running?
You should ask your dyno guy to also overlay the a/f ratio...



https://www.amazon.com/Walb...g-Fuel/dp/B07L3D8YW9
The Walbro 485 is one of the strongest fuel pumps on the market and is a great option for those looking to replace a stock pump for something capable of more power.

Type: Universal In-Tank Pump
Ethanol Compatible
Capable of 750+ horsepower
Flows at up to 450lph)
Dual Turbine design for high efficiency and extremely quiet operation
39mm Upper Body Diameter
50mm Lower Body Diameter

IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-01-2022 08:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I've been wanting to do this mod for a long time and I believe the right time is now since I'll be tracking the car soon.
I decided for the 3 quart unit. Taking into consideration the pan only uses about 5 quarts it might seem overkill, not really.
Besides its basic principle of operation there are other ways to take advantage of this.

I'm pretty sure the majority of us know how this works but for the ones who don't, lets give the stage to the experts to learn how this will help any application.
https://youtu.be/vyaGoj60A6s
IP: Logged
Blacktree
Member
Posts: 20770
From: Central Florida
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 350
Rate this member

Report this Post10-02-2022 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For what you plan on doing, I'd consider that (or a dry sump) to be a prerequisite.
IP: Logged
Will
Member
Posts: 14216
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 237
Rate this member

Report this Post10-04-2022 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Much cheaper alternative to a dry sump and a must for running track with race rubber
IP: Logged
Patrick
Member
Posts: 36240
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 458
Rate this member

Report this Post10-04-2022 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

I'm pretty sure the majority of us know how this works but for the ones who don't, lets give the stage to the experts to learn how this will help any application.



Interesting. I take it then that the extra 1-1/2 quarts of oil that are "injected" into the engine's oil system (when the accumulator temporarily empties) at startup isn't an issue at all?
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-05-2022 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Interesting. I take it then that the extra 1-1/2 quarts of oil that are "injected" into the engine's oil system (when the accumulator temporarily empties) at startup isn't an issue at all?


No. As soon as the engine starts after pressurization by the accumulator instant oil pressure is experienced because the oil doesn't have to spend time traveling from the oil pump, through the engine filling every crevice.
IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3082
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 66
Rate this member

Report this Post10-12-2022 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been considering adding an accumulator to my oil system as well. I'd rather it be mounted to the powertrain and/or cradle as opposed to in the driver compartment so that in the event of a failure of the accumulator, or the lines, I don't have potentially hot oil spraying inside of the car. simple cloth spray guards made of shop rags and zip ties can go a very long way to limiting the ability of the oil to travel, and spray in the event of such a failure, and have almost no weight penalty. I would also recommend a hose restraint of some kind to ensure that in the event of a hose end failure, the hose cannot "whip" in the driver's compartment.


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Interesting. I take it then that the extra 1-1/2 quarts of oil that are "injected" into the engine's oil system (when the accumulator temporarily empties) at startup isn't an issue at all?



I'm not sure I would add the entire working volume of the accumulator to the oil pan, it's been dyno proven that oil aeration removes power from an engine, and frequently, a somewhat lower oil fill, will actually produce more power than a standard fill, even on engines with solid camshafts. obviously you need to be careful about how much oil you have in the pan, too little and the pump cavitates, or you suck the pan dry too much and the rotating and reciprocating components aerate it. My thought would be to add an additional pressure gauge, and if not already done, a check from the oil pump, to the accumulator.



here we have the oil pump, the pickup in the pan, a check valve, and the accumulator, obviously an engine will have a filter and maybe a cooler, but you get the idea. by instrumenting oil pressure both post pump(red circle), and post accumulator(blue circle), excessive aeration, or cavitation of the pump can be seen by a loss of pump discharge pressure, the accumulator however, should maintain oil pressure to the lubricated components of the engine. now that we have data, we can carefully adjust oil fill such that aeration is minimized, yet cavitation also does not occur. When I get around to adding an accumulator, I will start by using a oil fill level slightly above stock fill, but probably less than stock fill+ working volume of the accumulator, then monitor datalogs for indication of lowering pump discharge pressure and add/remove oil to determine the optimum fill

Obviously a dry sump would be ideal, but a vacuum pump should also help minimize oil aeration, because the oil can't mix with the air if it isn't there. this should increase the oil return rate to the pan as well. but I would probably develop my optimum fill around no vacuum, so that if a loss of vacuum is experienced, oil control is still somewhat maintained.

it's also worth mentioning that monitoring the air side of the accumulator is critical, if it loses pressure, it will fill completely, and not discharge. at a minimum, it would be very wise to check the pressure before every race event, and maybe even on each pit at least until a baseline for leak down is established. installing a low pressure warning light switch might not be a bad idea.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

No pushrod 60V6 Fiero has been faster according to the 1/4 mile list.

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 10-12-2022).]

IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-12-2022 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

I've been considering adding an accumulator to my oil system as well. I'd rather it be mounted to the powertrain and/or cradle as opposed to in the driver compartment so that in the event of a failure of the accumulator, or the lines, I don't have potentially hot oil spraying inside of the car. simple cloth spray guards made of shop rags and zip ties can go a very long way to limiting the ability of the oil to travel, and spray in the event of such a failure, and have almost no weight penalty. I would also recommend a hose restraint of some kind to ensure that in the event of a hose end failure, the hose cannot "whip" in the driver's compartment.

I'm not sure I would add the entire working volume of the accumulator to the oil pan, it's been dyno proven that oil aeration removes power from an engine, and frequently, a somewhat lower oil fill, will actually produce more power than a standard fill, even on engines with solid camshafts. obviously you need to be careful about how much oil you have in the pan, too little and the pump cavitates, or you suck the pan dry too much and the rotating and reciprocating components aerate it. My thought would be to add an additional pressure gauge, and if not already done, a check from the oil pump, to the accumulator.



here we have the oil pump, the pickup in the pan, a check valve, and the accumulator, obviously an engine will have a filter and maybe a cooler, but you get the idea. by instrumenting oil pressure both post pump(red circle), and post accumulator(blue circle), excessive aeration, or cavitation of the pump can be seen by a loss of pump discharge pressure, the accumulator however, should maintain oil pressure to the lubricated components of the engine. now that we have data, we can carefully adjust oil fill such that aeration is minimized, yet cavitation also does not occur. When I get around to adding an accumulator, I will start by using a oil fill level slightly above stock fill, but probably less than stock fill+ working volume of the accumulator, then monitor datalogs for indication of lowering pump discharge pressure and add/remove oil to determine the optimum fill

Obviously a dry sump would be ideal, but a vacuum pump should also help minimize oil aeration, because the oil can't mix with the air if it isn't there. this should increase the oil return rate to the pan as well. but I would probably develop my optimum fill around no vacuum, so that if a loss of vacuum is experienced, oil control is still somewhat maintained.

it's also worth mentioning that monitoring the air side of the accumulator is critical, if it loses pressure, it will fill completely, and not discharge. at a minimum, it would be very wise to check the pressure before every race event, and maybe even on each pit at least until a baseline for leak down is established. installing a low pressure warning light switch might not be a bad idea.


I'm using the best oil line for the job because I thought about "what if"just like you adviced. The oil line will be chassis attached every 3 inches to the chassis.
I can see clearly the Accusump air gauge from the driver's seat. The light is a good idea but I'll have it wired to turn a red light every time the Accusump dumps oil in the engine.
Right now I have -8AN oil lines to the remote filter, cooler and back to the engine but with this pump installed I'll upgrade all the hoses to -10AN to increase pressure in the system.
The check valve is not a good idea because all my research has revealed that it puts a restriction on the system and lots of Aussies that do road racing have complaint about oil starvation due to the check valve. Once the check valve is removed the oil starvation stops.
As far as oil level it will vary per track so I have to do testing at them. For example, Carolina Motorsports Park (CMP) has sweeping high speed corners and tight chicanes that will put the Accumulator system to the test. Other tracks that I frequent have tight but slow corners.
I figure if I can dial it at CMP which is the hardest on the system it should perform ok at the other tracks.
IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3082
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 66
Rate this member

Report this Post10-13-2022 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if someone is having problems with a check valve causing a restriction, it sounds to me like it was improperly sized. FWIW, many oil filters integrate a check valve in their design. and by nature of the oil filter having some restriction, placing a sensor pre oil filter may be adequate in lieu of a check valve, assuming the accumulator is plumbed post filter.

To be clear, a check valve is by no means required to prevent the accumulator from dumping into the sump, the nature of a positive displacement pump like an oil pump will prevent any massive backflow from occurring unless the pump driveshaft fails, or all the inside parts of the oil pump decide to become outside parts.

I'm also not aware of any oil pump for an engine being velocity based (non positive displacement), people who say a check valve is an absolute requirement, would be wrong unless the engine they are running has a velocity based oil pump

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

No pushrod 60V6 Fiero has been faster according to the 1/4 mile list.

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 10-13-2022).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Patrick
Member
Posts: 36240
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 458
Rate this member

Report this Post10-13-2022 01:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I take it then that the extra 1-1/2 quarts of oil that are "injected" into the engine's oil system (when the accumulator temporarily empties) at startup isn't an issue at all?


 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

I'm not sure I would add the entire working volume of the accumulator to the oil pan...


I agree with you. I was rather surprised that in the demo video (starting from This point), that they clearly show the entire contents of the accumulator being emptied into the engine prior to start up. The guy even says... "You're dumping all this in there." Seems to me that when the engine is then first started, that the crankshaft would be pounding away at the resulting high oil level in the pan.

 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

No. As soon as the engine starts after pressurization by the accumulator instant oil pressure is experienced because the oil doesn't have to spend time traveling from the oil pump, through the engine filling every crevice.


As explained above, it wasn't lack of oil pressure that I was concerned about!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-13-2022).]

IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3082
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 66
Rate this member

Report this Post10-13-2022 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

As explained above, it wasn't lack of oil pressure that I was concerned about!



gotcha, Personally, I don't think it would be a problem, especially short duration like on a startup, if there was always too much oil in the pan, yeah, it could be a problem. honestly, I would argue that for 99.999% of engines any of us are using, pre-lubing is absolutely unnecessary. I would be more focused on oil control while running than pre-lube characteristics.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

No pushrod 60V6 Fiero has been faster according to the 1/4 mile list.

IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-23-2022 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-02-2023 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know where to start. Last Wednesday I was doing the final tuning of the car to finalize it in the Dyno. The breaking up passed 5k was resolved and the engine cleanly and crispy hit the limiter 8300rpm effortlessly. I'm all done but decided to check the ignition trigger offset to verify it with a timing light. Made a small change and (this is where I messed up) hit the "burn" button With the engine running!!. There was a loud thunk and it felt like someone hit the car. The starter could barely turn the engine. I took all the spark plugs out and the engine spun freely. Compression test was good all through all cylinders. Put the plugs back in, reflashed a back up tune and fire the engine. It fired fine but it seemed uneven and making a squeaky sound at crank speed. So definitely something is wrong.
I kept playing the scenario in my head and asking myself, "How in the world did you made that mistake, you've done this hundreds of times?? Why, didn't you shut the engine like you've always done" Up until now I can't answer myself. But this is it for this engine for now. I'll see what's wrong when I take it apart. The heads on it will go the 9000RPM short block. I'll fix it and refresh it and set it aside for the future. What really pisses me off is that I couldn't go to the dyno and really see its potential and I had 3 different track days booked and now I can't go. There is an old Spanish proverb that says "No hay mal que por bien no venga" Basically means when bad things happen, good things are coming.
In another note, the 3.7LR is ready to be assembled. I installed the crank, prepped the cylinders with dry lubricant, assembled the rod, piston and rings. The drysump pan is being made along with the bracket that will hold the pump on the pan.
IP: Logged
Trinten
Member
Posts: 1346
From: Mebane, N.C.
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score:    (8)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-02-2023 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TrintenSend a Private Message to TrintenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh man! I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it turns out to be an easy/straight forward fix.
IP: Logged
Will
Member
Posts: 14216
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 237
Rate this member

Report this Post04-02-2023 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dam, dude, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with that.

Gotta watch that complacency... I went to Navy flight school right out of college. One of the instructors would say "With the number of flight hours I have right now, I'm statistically most likely to get myself and someone else killed. Let's go flying!"
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-02-2023 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Dam, dude, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with that.

Gotta watch that complacency... I went to Navy flight school right out of college. One of the instructors would say "With the number of flight hours I have right now, I'm statistically most likely to get myself and someone else killed. Let's go flying!"


Yes, I think I got too comfortable.
IP: Logged
Frenchrafe
Member
Posts: 344
From: Locmiquelic France
Registered: Feb 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-03-2023 05:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrenchrafeSend a Private Message to FrenchrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh that's a shame...
I hope it's nothing too serious?
Sounds like the engine management went mad? Possibly firing all 4 cylinders at once while dumping full squirt with the injectors?
Backfire shock load? Partial hydro-lock?

[This message has been edited by Frenchrafe (edited 04-03-2023).]

IP: Logged
pmbrunelle
Member
Posts: 4372
From: Grand-Mère, Québec
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 62
Rate this member

Report this Post04-03-2023 08:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Was the engine running at full load when you clicked "Burn"?

Sometimes there is a hiccup, and it seems like there may be a jump in timing.

Normally I don't shut off the engine completely; I just click "Burn" when the engine is at idle, where damage is less likely.
IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3082
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 66
Rate this member

Report this Post04-03-2023 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well, I can't say I don't know that pain... the last engine that was in my car randomly spun a rod bearing without warning, or defined reason after only a couple hundred miles.

for the most part, I don't see an issue with burning the program while the engine is running, I do it all the time with my car, that said, I'm usually not messing with trigger offset while the engine is running, and that is something that I think is probably best done on a non running engine based on the nature of how quickly things can go wrong, especially if something were accidentally fat fingered, say a 10.0 accidently becomes a 100

have you considered putting a bore scope in it and checking for internal damage before pulling the engine? depending on what happened, an in car repair may be possible, although by the sound of things that doesn't seem likely.

good luck with repairs/moving forward.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-03-2023 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Was the engine running at full load when you clicked "Burn"?

Sometimes there is a hiccup, and it seems like there may be a jump in timing.

Normally I don't shut off the engine completely; I just click "Burn" when the engine is at idle, where damage is less likely.


Not on this page.


IP: Logged
sleek fiero
Member
Posts: 291
From: British Columbia
Registered: Aug 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-03-2023 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleek fieroSend a Private Message to sleek fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi La Fiera. I just read through all 13 pages. what a cool racecar you have put together. Cool think out of the box engine mods. Just wish I could watch your videos. I have been working on mine for 29 years and its still nothing compared to yours. I will never race mine but it will see some track days. sleek
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-05-2023 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Well, she did pound a bearing as you can see I didn't have to look no further. Metal flakes are non magnetic. I want to see what I find in the filter. So I'll use this opportunity to do some upgrades to this 3.7L. Get rid of the heavy rods and use lighter pistons with lighter rods and also use top gapless rings. Stay tuned!
IP: Logged
sleek fiero
Member
Posts: 291
From: British Columbia
Registered: Aug 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-06-2023 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sleek fieroSend a Private Message to sleek fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now that's a shame. Nobody ever wants to see the bearing sparkles ! sleek
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2023 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Took the Eifel Tower off to see how the lobes on the cam look and they are perfect!

Everyting looks like I installed it yesterday!
IP: Logged
sleek fiero
Member
Posts: 291
From: British Columbia
Registered: Aug 2022


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2023 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sleek fieroSend a Private Message to sleek fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So it's probably a bearing on one of the rods ? Sleek
IP: Logged
Whoodoo
Junior Member
Posts: 3
From: Wonder Lake, IL
Registered: Mar 2023


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2023 09:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WhoodooSend a Private Message to WhoodooEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've also just finished reading through this thread in it's entirety as well as your 3.4 build. Hats off to you, sir and thank you for sharing your journey with us! How can I gain access to your YouTube videos? It's such a tease reading things like "turn up the volume" and not being able to join in the fun..

[This message has been edited by Whoodoo (edited 04-13-2023).]

IP: Logged
Blacktree
Member
Posts: 20770
From: Central Florida
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 350
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2023 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He deleted his youtube account, and switched over to Rumble. Here's a link to his channel: https://rumble.com/user/LaFieraV6

That said, I haven't been on PFF in awhile. Dang, that sucks about the engine. I've also been guilty of flashing the MS while idling, and never had a problem. That's weird. Hopefully, you can just toss a bearing in it.
IP: Logged
La fiera
Member
Posts: 2186
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2023 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Whoodoo:

I've also just finished reading through this thread in it's entirety as well as your 3.4 build. Hats off to you, sir and thank you for sharing your journey with us! How can I gain access to your YouTube videos? It's such a tease reading things like "turn up the volume" and not being able to join in the fun..



Thank you very much the encouraging words! Since I have 2 other engines I'm taking this set back as an opportunity to install my other 3.7L with some upgrades. You can see the progress here https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...5065-4.html#lastpost

IP: Logged
Previous Page | Next Page

This topic is 14 pages long:  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14 
next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock