quote Originally posted by Formula88:

Missed that. That is funny, even if you are a Nobama koolaid drinker.

I don't like, understand or support Obama...but I am willing to bet Romney will take his place..on top of the same post within a year, if he wins the Presidency .
Meanwhile, I continue to hope and dream that a miracle will occur, and that the little grey Man will get there . He'd dig the flaming post UP, and make it into firewood ....IMHO .
KICK OUT THE SUITS, THE 'CELEBRITY' FRONTMEN, AND THE PLAUSIBLE, AND GET BACK TO THE DOWN-TO-EARTH CANDIDATE

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Yeah, right, . I have not adopted any talking points.

If you have honest questions pose them to me and I will answer.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I don't like, understand or support Obama...but I am willing to bet Romney will take his place..on top of the same post within a year, if he wins the Presidency . Meanwhile, I continue to hope and dream that a miracle will occur, and that the little grey Man will get there . He'd dig the flaming post UP, and make it into firewood ....IMHO . KICK OUT THE SUITS, THE 'CELEBRITY' FRONTMEN, AND THE PLAUSIBLE, AND GET BACK TO THE DOWN-TO-EARTH CANDIDATE

You won't hear about it much on the lamestream media, but he is still eligible for the candidacy.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I've had enough of your crap. STFU, Jeff. Go find someone else to dick with.

Um, you are the one who was looking for attention when I was discussing something with someone else. And I don't think Cliff likes that word...

quote Originally posted by newf: If you have honest questions pose them to me and I will answer.

OK.
Let's first start with Nobama's claim that his statement was taken out of context. Let's first examine the context of the man. I could start with the influences which shaped his ideology but, let's start with the Joe the Plumber moment. He told Joe that he wants to redistribute the wealth. Whose wealth ? Joe was not wealthy.
My first question to you is what did he hope to accomplish with his remarks/speech ?
Nobama has also stated on more than one occasion, that he wants to grow the economy from the middle up.
My second question to you is, how is that possible ?

New version of Obama’s recent speech:

quote If you’re a successful bureaucrat, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I lied better than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of lying politicians out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was an innovative entrepreneur somewhere whose tax payments funded your position. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody’s money was taken at the threat of imprisonment and handed over to you and your cronies to pay for roads and bridges, regardless of whether they agreed to if, how, where, by whom, and at what price. If you’ve got a high ranking position and a pretty office with a federal, state, or city flag in it — you didn’t build that. Some homeowner’s property tax, some businessman’s corporate/payroll tax, or some wage earner’s income tax money was used to fund it, somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Businesses and voluntary open source communities made the Internet useful, only to have bureaucrats utilize those services to enhance the efficiency of their spying, looting and propaganda, and to support the entire edifice of an ever more growing, bloated, and intrusive police state. The point is, is that when we bureaucrats succeed, we succeed on the backs of hard working individuals, entrepreneurs, and future generations who weren’t even given the illusion of a choice in this matter.

'You didn't build that': Anti-colonialist rage?
'Americans stole it, he has every right to use power of state to confiscate it back'
http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/...ti-colonialist-rage/

quote Dinesh D’Souza, a former policy adviser to President Reagan and the director of a controversial new film about Barack Obama’s past, told WND he believes the roots of the current president’s infamous “you didn’t build that” speech go back to Kenya and the anti-colonialism seeded in his worldview. At the beginning of his new film “2016 Obama’s America,” D’Souza states, “We are all shaped by our pasts, and we carry elements of the past into our future. But we have to be careful, because nothing can threaten the future quite as much as the debts of the past.” And after the Washington, D.C., screening of the film, D’Souza told WND he believes Obama’s anti-colonialist past was the driving force behind telling a crowd at Roanoke, Va., on July 13, “If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” In brief, D’Souza explained European colonialism as fundamentally about occupation, rule, conquest and acquiring wealth; whereas anti-colonialism is fundamentally about redistributing the wealth of the world “so that it is enjoyed equitably by everyone in the world.” D’Souza told WND, “Anti-colonialism’s core idea is that the wealth America has now is not earned wealth, but stolen wealth. And I believe that is a very influential idea with Obama and his recent comment that business owners didn’t earn their success, they used the public school system and public roads. That is the intellectual equivalent of me saying to Obama, ‘You didn’t really win the election. You, after all, drove on the public roads to your rallies, so you don’t deserve to be president.’ “The reason Obama makes such arguments – bogus though they are – is because he’s trying to say ‘If you didn’t earn it, I have the right to take it,’” D’Souza said. “And that is an idea rooted in anti-colonialism that the rich people and rich countries don’t deserve what they have. They didn’t earn it, they stole it and he has every right to use the power of the state to confiscate it back.” D’Souza’s take that Obama is an anti-colonialist may stem from personal experience. After all, D’Souza emigrated from India, where his father and grandfather were anti-colonialists. As WND reported, D’Souza moved to the United States to attend Dartmouth College and today is president of The King’s College in New York City. In “2016 Obama’s America,” he humorously explains his rise to working in the Reagan White House, becoming a bestselling author and debating against the likes of Jesse Jackson. In the film, D’Souza takes his audience to Kenya, Hawaii, Indonesia and elsewhere to interview those who know Barack Obama or his mother and father figures. He also interviews Paul Kengor, biographer of Obama’s primary influence, Communist Frank Marshall Davis. In Kenya, D’Souza tried to interview the president’s step-grandmother Sarah Obama. But once the family found out he had interviewed Barack’s half-brother, George Obama, they refused to talk. They also banned him from the family homestead. As D’Souza said, George is “the black sheep of the family” because wrote a book expressing conservative ideals and disputing anti-colonialism. Moreover, George is poor but insists on earning his own living. D’Souza also interviewed psychologist Dr. Paul Vitz about the father figures in Obama’s life. He interviewed experts on the impending crisis of our mounting national debt and examines Obama’s military/defense agenda. And while most regular WND readers know much about Obama’s murky past, this film is likely to stun the scores Americans who haven’t looked into their president’s formative years. “I think this is a film that, whatever your politics, you’re going to leave the theater saying, ‘I know a lot more about Obama than I did 90 minutes ago,’” said D’Souza. “And I think that makes the film a contribution to the debate.” After the Washington screening of “2016 Obama’s America,” one journalist told WND, “It scared the h— out of me!” When D’Souza was told about the reaction, he replied, “Well, I think what makes the film shocking is that much of the material was unreported by mainstream media, even though the information was not that hard for me to collect. For example, when I was down in Kenya, talking to people related to Obama and those who knew Barack Sr., I asked, ‘Who has interviewed you so far?’ And they said, ‘Nobody. Nobody’s interviewed us.’ And I was shocked. So I kind of felt like I had large areas of territory, and I think that’s why people come out of theaters saying, ‘How come I didn’t know all this? “I wanted a film that wasn’t like a TV documentary, but was like a real movie and appealed to people both on the intellectual level and the emotional level,” D’Souza explained. “I wanted to make a film by which people could understand Obama, and by that I mean even to empathize with Obama – understand how he became the man that he is above the give and take of political squabbling. I think it’s an interesting film on a human level. The Obama story to me is a riveting story, quite apart from politics.” The trailer for “2016 Obama’s America” can be seen below: “2016 Obama’s America” is currently showing in producer Gerald Molen’s home state of Montana and Houston-area theaters. Doug Sain, another producer, said distribution will expand to 300 theaters by Aug. 10 and 500 theaters by Aug. 17. Click here to see the growing list of theaters showing the film.

Click on article link to see video and other links.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I still don't understand your point. I read his statement word for word and it was very clear what he meant. Tell the part about "wroking together" to Steve Jobs...under Obama, Jobs and Wozniac would have been red tagged by the Fire Marshall, the City Building Department, and a dozen other agencies for trying to start Apple Computer in their garage....uh, with no help BTW. How about Papa John's Pizza? The guy took over his dad's pizza shop in the mid 80's and turned it into a dynasty by working long hours and investing HIS money wisely....no help. He created every job in that business from nothing. What YOU fail to understand, as Obama does, is that the seed for every great economic empire began with one person's idea and will power to see it made into reality. The power of the individual mind must be acknowledged and encouraged in a free society. But Obama does not WANT a free society, he wants centralized rule, he wants to starve the creative spirit in favor of order and uniformity (Fairness, as he calls it...slavery, as I call it) Nice try but I know EXACTLY what the colossal imbecile meant.

I don't agree with your opinion about the speech, seems like more fear and hate to me but have at it if it makes you feel better.

You did however state that Obama has put regulations into place that would have stopped Apple computers from starting. That is an interesting point could you please point out the specific laws or regulations Obama has implemented that would have stopped their venture?

quote Originally posted by newf: [OUT OF CONTEXT] ... he really is a Kenyan, Muslim, Hitler clone [/OUT OF CONTEXT]

Really??? I think you forgot to refer to your "Book of Common Knowledge" and left out Socialist, Communist, and Marxist.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: left out Socialist, Communist, and Marxist.

I realize you are being a smart ass, but it it pretty easy to make a case for this.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: ... it it pretty easy to make a case for this.

It is perhaps easy to make an argument, just not a credible one.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: It is perhaps easy to make an argument, just not a credible one.

Yes, it is a very credible argument. His statements on class warefare, redistribution of wealth, this parents, grandparents and mentor "Frank" being all Marxists and socialists (meaning he was steeped in that viewpoint all his young life), his own comments in his own words in his own books...the evidence is quite credible, Marvin. You just seem to be able to ignore all that for some reason.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: It is perhaps easy to make an argument, just not a credible one.

Once a person takes the statement out of context a person can then till there's no end. Seriously, Pennock's should make another O/T section strictly for "out of context" members here who seek fortune tellers and .

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Once a person takes the statement out of context a person can then till there's no end. Seriously, Pennock's should make another O/T section strictly for "out of context" members here who seek fortune tellers and .

Except that my argument is not based on the allegedly "out of context" statement in this thread. But you seem to be ignoring all that, just like Marvin.

Look at it another way. If Bush wrote a book saying he had a mentor that was a Nazi, sought out fascist professors in college, parents were card carrying Nazis and KKK, you know DAMN WELL you wouldn't be so dismissive. So spare me the crap about my argument when you are so willing to dismiss such evidence.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: It is perhaps easy to make an argument, just not a credible one.

Watch this and decide for yourself. All I ask is you don't immediately discount it as irrelevant because of the source. Actually listen and consider if you believe the points made on their own merit and not because of who is saying it. Sources are cited in the video.


I can't find Part 2, but if I find it, I'll add it here.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Except that my argument is not based on the allegedly "out of context" statement in this thread. But you seem to be ignoring all that, just like Marvin. Look at it another way. If Bush wrote a book saying he had a mentor that was a Nazi, sought out fascist professors in college, parents were card carrying Nazis and KKK, you know DAMN WELL you wouldn't be so dismissive. So spare me the crap about my argument when you are so willing to dismiss such evidence.

That is what you'd like for others here to do, but the thread was about what he "supposedly" said to business owners which was taken out of context. If you'd like to start a thread about President Obama's book and then quote various points to make you argument go right ahead. Speaking of which (correct if I'm wrong), but looking back on the 6-pages you never once used a single quote from the book. Come on, don't go on a tirade about what you "think" is what he said. Have something that is concrete otherwise you're making us look like fools. There are enough tirade threads in O/T that are dictated to that like, "Is Obama born in Africa or something," "Is Obama a Muslim," or "Is Obama a Christian."

http://news.yahoo.com/half-...c-news-politics.html

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Speaking of which (correct if I'm wrong), but looking back on the 6-pages you never once used a single quote from the book.

In this thread, or never? I'm pretty sure I have, curl. Seriously. How many times to I have to post the evidence? Perhaps a better question...what would it take for you to say I'm right? What evidence do you require?

quote Originally posted by newf: No idea, ..., how would I know this? Again I'm not sure why you would ask me what the Obama administration means in such matters.

Why the dodge ?

quote Originally posted by newf: I merely have an opinion like anyone else and I think that if ones looks at the context of his recent speech it is NOT about the tiny blurb "You didn't build that".

I will rephrase the question.
In your opinion, what do you think he meant, in context, of "you didn't build that" ?
In your opinion, how is it possible to build an economy from the middle up ?

quote Originally posted by newf: "You didn't build that" sure is a good snippet for the fear and hate though.

C'mon, man up. Tell us what you think he meant. Entrepreneurs were entrepreneurs before we had the road and bridge system.
You have no problem assigning motive to what we say, ...

quote Originally posted by newf: "You didn't build that" sure is a good snippet for the fear and hate though.

quote Originally posted by newf: "The context makes clear that the president was saying entrepreneurs need government infrastructure like roads and bridges, investments in education and what Obama called "this unbelievable American system that allowed you to thrive." But of course when has context ever mattered?

When has context ever mattered ? When you do not include it all ? Or, when you post context of the his spin ?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 07-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: In this thread, or never? I'm pretty sure I have, curl. Seriously. How many times to I have to post the evidence? Perhaps a better question...what would it take for you to say I'm right? What evidence do you require?

I'm referring to this thread. If you're going to use excerpts from President Obama's book and then claim President Obama said, “this or he said that, and meant this”-then you should actually use "-------"-pg. (end of quote). I could be wrong, but did you actually read the book?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: When has context ever mattered ? When you do not include it all ? Or, when you post context of the his spin ?

It always matters IMO, I linked the entire speech for that reason. It seemed clear (to me anyway) that in the speech in question he was saying that everyone is/has been supported by their community in some way.

quote "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

It seemed very clear to me that he was talking primarily about government, not the community itself.
A teacher - public school system employee...
Roads and bridges, presumably built by government contracts...
The internet - "Government research created the Internet"

Everything was with an eye towards what government does. I don't equate government with community, but that's me.

One point President Kardashian misses is things like the internet were not invented by government research "so that all the companies could make money off the Internet." It was DARPA project initially. (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) It took capitalists to say, Hey, we've got this great resource now. How can it be used for business?

That's not uncommon for government research. It's usually developed for some specific government need - i.e. the heat shielding foil used on the Apollo lunar lander, and was later adapted by businesses for commercial uses - i.e., radiant barriers in your home, emergency thermal blankets, etc.

quote Originally posted by newf: I linked the entire speech for that reason.

Really ?
He flew all that way on Air Force One to give a 35 second speech ? He started a speech with the words ""If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help."?
Newf, a speech, is much like a story. It is much like a, ..., I don't want to use the word joke but it fits. It is just like a news story. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. It is much like a movie. They all have a plot. The introduction is the beginning. Character/issue development comes next. There are injections of action/comedy//tragedy, right before the punch line/climax.
What kind of President would fly Air Force One to say "you would not be here if your mother did not give birth to you" ?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 07-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Really ? He flew all that way on Air Force One to give a 35 second speech ? He started a speech with the words ""If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help."? Newf, a speech, is much like a story. It is much like a, ..., I don't want to use the word joke but it fits. It is just like a news story. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. It is much like a movie. They all have a plot. The introduction is the beginning. Character/issue development comes next. There are injections of action/comedy//tragedy, right before the punch line/climax. What kind of President would fly Air Force One to say "you would not be here if your mother did not give birth to you" ?

Again I gave a link to the speech in a previous post in thsi thread you can infer from it whatever you like.

quote Originally posted by newf: Again I gave a link to the speech in a previous post in thsi thread you can infer from it whatever you like.

Why the dodge ?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I could be wrong, but did you actually read the book?

I've read excerpts of the book and heard clips from the audio book, which was read by the president himself. One example:

Link

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structured feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpets or set our stereos so loud the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling conventions. We weren't indifferent, or careless, or insecure. We were alienated.

But this strategy alone couldn't provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerant. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."

Barrack Obama - Dreams of My Father, page 101

Audio version


Here is the definition of "Bourgeois Society", from a site called "marxists.org"
http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/b/o.htm

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I've read excerpts of the book and heard clips from the audio book, which was read by the president himself. One example: Link "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structured feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpets or set our stereos so loud the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling conventions. We weren't indifferent, or careless, or insecure. We were alienated. But this strategy alone couldn't provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerant. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names." Barrack Obama - Dreams of My Father, page 101 Audio version Here is the definition of "Bourgeois Society", from a site called "marxists.org" http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/b/o.htm

It appears you have been mistaken here on page 101. Once again it seems that you're taking what was written out of context. It would be best to read the paragraph above and the following below.

"On its own, the quote makes Obama appear racially militant. Whereas, in full context, the quote illustrates Obama’s confusion over his race and cultural heritage. This is emphasized in the preceding paragraph, where Obama describes himself as someone compensating for insecurity in his "racial credentials."

http://www.factcheck.org/20...dreams-of-my-father/

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 07-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: It appears you have been mistaken here on page 101. Once again it seems that you're taking what was written out of context. It would be best to read the paragraph above and the following below.

Or you could take it at face value that seeking out Marxist professors was simply a continuation of the ideology he was raised on.

Would you be so dismissive if this was Bush, seeking out a fascist or KKK member?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Or you could take it at face value that seeking out Marxist professors was simply a continuation of the ideology he was raised on. Would you be so dismissive if this was Bush, seeking out a fascist or KKK member?

You now have the facts before you. If you choose to take a sentence or paragraph out of context and spin it-that is your choice, but "facts are facts" and you need evidence to support it.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: You now have the facts before you. If you choose to take a sentence or paragraph out of context and spin it-that is your choice, but "facts are facts" and you need evidence to support it.

No, curl, you are focusing on the details and losing the big picture. I gave you facts earlier, and you just skipped over them.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: No, curl, you are focusing on the details and losing the big picture. I gave you facts earlier, and you just skipped over them.

Actually, I read all that was mentioned on this page that you listed and beyond for it took me nearly 1-hr or so digging into it. The part that was the most important was the paragraph before and after-or the entire page. This is were you failed and this is were FactCheck.org proved you wrong. http://www.factcheck.org/20...dreams-of-my-father/

If you were to continue with this nonsense you might as well use the rest of what is in the paragraph and run with that too like, "structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets"-pg. 101

Now are we to conclude that President Obama is into "Punk Rock" poets too? Seriously, I thought President Obama likes R&B old school like Al Green. Seriously, FactCheck has proven you wrong and reading is fundamental.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Now are we to conclude that President Obama is into "Punk Rock" poets too? Seriously, I thought President Obama likes R&B old school like Al Green. Seriously, FactCheck has proven you wrong and reading is fundamental.

No, it hasn't proven me wrong. That is the opinion of the writer at factcheck. And this doesn't exist in a vacuum. It wasn't intended to be ALL the evidence that Obama is a socialist at best, and maybe a Marxist. But it is YOU who ignore the other evidence, which is part of a big picture, one that you cannot or will not see.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: No, it hasn't proven me wrong. That is the opinion of the writer at factcheck. And this doesn't exist in a vacuum. It wasn't intended to be ALL the evidence that Obama is a socialist at best, and maybe a Marxist. But it is YOU who ignore the other evidence, which is part of a big picture, one that you cannot or will not see.

Tell me then, what does the paragraph states before and after the statement you are trying to claim as "fact"? Or for that mater the entire page? As I stated in my first posting here that this thread is bogus. You are trying to attach imaginary dots to a false statement already taken out of context. That's what you call a fail boat. At least try to attach it too something that floats. As I stated before you didn't post any fact findings until I requested from you and what you've shown is too false for FactCheck.org has proven you wrong. When you add the fact that you didn't read the paragraph before and after is telling my friend, very telling. Other-than-that, I don't mind a few moments of banterering, but I guess you like to argue with people over the internet about things that aren't seen for I'm neither a mind reader nor do I claim to be a clairvoyant, but you seem to be one of the person on the forum with that ability.

Not that it will make any difference to madcurl, but here is some of the other evidence I spoke of...

One of Obama's books is called "Dreams from My Father". Notice it isn't dreams OF, but FROM. That seems to imply that he shares those dreams and/or had such an influence on him that he titled a book about it. So, who was his father? What kind of dreams are we talking about?

Obama Hid His Father’s Socialism From Readers

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Why the dodge ?

No dodge, I have expressed my opinions, that is what you asked.

quote Originally posted by newf: It seemed clear (to me anyway) that in the speech in question he was saying ...

This is where you fail. President Context, heh, is supposed to be a leader. All of his speeches, all of his actions, is the context of which we judge him. His speech of the day is a continuation of what he is saying as a leader. Have you been paying attention to what he has been saying ? He wants to tax the rich more. "You didn't build it on your own" is his projection of rationalization of why they should be taxed more.

quote Originally posted by Bullet: Should those who make more from the same benefits of infrastructure be demonized for their success?

quote Originally posted by newf: Not at all, who ever said it should?

President Context, duh. Many times.

quote Originally posted by newf: No dodge, I have expressed my opinions, that is what you asked.

No. I asked you to to answer my questions. Sure, it will involve your opinion and I am good with that. I wasn't done asking though. I want to understand how you can believe what you believe. I am trying not to infer that you are just posting for the self gratification of stirring the pot.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Exactly.

Feel free to chime in Marvin.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: No. I asked you to to answer my questions. Sure, it will involve your opinion and I am good with that. I wasn't done asking though. I want to understand how you can believe what you believe. I am trying not to infer that you are just posting for the self gratification of stirring the pot.

My opinion is that the blurb "You didn't build that" was taken out of context and that if one looks at the whole speech it is apparent.

I don't believe Obama a Socialist, Communist, Fascist, etc. and further more I think he wants to improve the U.S., take it out of the near depression it was in, and keep it one of the greatest countries on earth.

I think people that regurgitating the hate and fear seem blinded by it and are basically doing what the extremes of the political system want, it makes it so much easier to control them and predict their stance (they are kind of bought and sold). I think that the U.S. and other political systems are too easily influenced by money and that waters down their effectiveness to Govern "For the people" first, this includes the Obama administration IMO.