quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I mean, how can you actually know something like this?: [QUOTE]but he had the national media ACTIVELY running interference for him, downplaying and obscuring his real core beliefs. But even THEY can't keep hiding who he really is. He just keeps opening his mouth, thinking every word is intellectual gold. (in his mind). He is letting all Americans know is an out-and-out socialist.

[/QUOTE]


He TOTALLY stole whatever value the shareholders still had in GM, absconded it, and gave it to the autoworkers when he "bailed out" GM. It should have gone to bankruptcy court, the assets would have been divided up, and then GM (or a buyer) would have restructured it.

That is how capitalistic, private ownership, constitutional republics like the U.S. works.

That isn't how Obama works. HE took it over.
Surprising? You look at the people HE identified as his thought leaders and his close friends and influences. Socialists. Did the media drum beat that, like they would have a perceived negative of a republican candidate? No. They buried it.

Listen to the public radio interview he did in around 2001. The one where he said the constitution didn't go nearly far enough. Did the media grill him about how he could be running for the position who's job it is to DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION, and yet he doesn't even agree with it at its core? He never even had to defend that. Why not? Would a fair and unbiased media have wanted to know the answer to that question?


His behavior has CONSISTENTLY been in over-riding private individuals and businesses rights in order to place government in control.

How many "czars" are there now?

The man who was going to have the most transparent administration in history writes a 2300 page document in complete private, so much so that a speaker of the house says we will have to vote to pass it to see what is in it. But, well, it is for the public's good. This is a man that believes in the constitutionally prescribed process, and not socialist government imposition on the will of the people?


Government GAVE an infrastructure for you to be successful? You are successful due to "the state"?

Rich should be willing to "invest in the country", when that REALLY means my government is going to redistribute income to those we deem needy?
At what point is one willing to say, Yeah, he really doesn't believe in a constitutional republic. He is just trying to manipulate it into a socialist system, but is trying to use clever words so people don't know it. And then he has a media more than willing to not call him on it.
Really, not meant in an argumentative spirit at all, but to turn the question around:

How can you NOT know it, after all this? (answer being that the media has run interference for him and not held him accountable. I get that.)

quote Originally posted by Toddster: That is true, 12/21/12 may very well be the end of the world as we know it afterall.

Nah, that's the day my brother turns 40. My grandmother always told him "The way you act, you'll never reach 40!" So the way i figure it, the world will end just to prove my grandma right.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: 1. NO i'm not. 2. NO I don't. And I find it HIGHLY insulting that there are those here that STILL continue to project that on me, DISPITE what I have said time & time again. I did not vote for him, I do not support him, and I will not vote for him this time. (not that any of that should be your's or anyone else's damn business). My only defense of him has been that he does NOTHING alone. He cannot be the complete bumbling idiot some claim in one breath and then some kind of evil genus bent on destroying the United States single-handedly in the other. When I tell you I don't support him and you say I do, you are calling me a lier. And you don't even know me. I'm telling you I don't support him FROM MY OWN MOUTH. It is NOT FOR YOU TO SAY what I support or believe in. Only I can say that. If anyone STILL don't get that after all this, they are doing so only to be dishonestly confrontational. To what end, I have no idea. Because I don't work like that. I would NEVER do to you what you just did to me.

Well I have never read that you are totally against him or didn't vote for him, but I don't hang out in every thread political or non political thread, for that matter. If you say you didn't vote for him, and you won't again that's good enough for me. (not that you didn't vote for him, just that you're on the record) However, you do not come across as anti Obama, or anti liberal or otherwise. I was not trying, as you put it, to be "dishonestly confrontational." I was being truthfully honest, and calling it as I see it. To your other point, Obama does not have to be competent, to be wicked. Obama is a bumbling fool with evil plans for this country, that does not mean he is competent, it only means he is deceitful. DON'T BE DECEIVED! I say this not to attack you, but hopefully to wake people up.

Jim

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: However, you do not come across as anti Obama, or anti liberal or otherwise.

That says more about my point then I ever could.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: That says more about my point then I ever could.

Words have meaning, and I go by what you say, not by what you don't. And that's my point. There's nothing wrong with honest confrontation, and there was nothing dishonest about what I said.

Jim

I know exactly how boondawg feels. I've been getting the same treatment. No matter how many times I say that I'm not an Obama supporter, democrat, or liberal, I get the same thing and I've said it dozens of times. It's kind of like when Bush said "you're either with us or against us". THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND! It's not necessary to pick liberal or conservative. I find things that I like and things that don't like in both conservatives and liberals. When I criticize a conservative it does not mean that I'm liberal and if I criticize a liberal it doesn't mean that I am a conservative. It's a free country and I can pick and choose if I want to.

quote Originally posted by dratts: I know exactly how boondawg feels. I've been getting the same treatment. No matter how many times I say that I'm not an Obama supporter, democrat, or liberal, I get the same thing and I've said it dozens of times. It's kind of like when Bush said "you're either with us or against us". THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND! It's not necessary to pick liberal or conservative. I find things that I like and things that don't like in both conservatives and liberals. When I criticize a conservative it does not mean that I'm liberal and if I criticize a liberal it doesn't mean that I am a conservative. It's a free country and I can pick and choose if I want to.

I know i haven't treated you poorly, but i disagree about being a middle ground. Not with this guy, don't give him a inch no compromise. He is death to this country.

'You didn't build that'

Well ok but, why is it that I have done well financially while others with similar opportunities are broke? It was that I sacrificed my time and pleasure. I put at risk, with lots of pre-thought, the results of hard work and careful planning. I tended carefully relationships with successful people, and learned from them as much as I could. I gratefully took help when I needed it and always tried to pay it back. You will not see me drinking anything but water most days, my cars are often repaired not replaced. I have not been too proud to take any work when I was younger, two jobs at a time and briefly three jobs a couple times.
$100,000 in a 401K came from my employer because I did not take it in pay. I would have been able to eat better, drive a nicer car, give extravagant gifts to friends and family with that extra money. I could have gone to several ski trips a year with the money that I did not take in pay. I chose to delay that pleasure.

Tell me now how I owe it to someone that is not doing so well?

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Words have meaning, and I go by what you say, not by what you don't. And that's my point. There's nothing wrong with honest confrontation, and there was nothing dishonest about what I said. Jim

No, It SEEMS you go by what I "do not come across as"......

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: However, you do not come across as anti Obama, or anti liberal or otherwise.

....becouse I didn't seem to you to be ANTI-him.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: ....and there was nothing dishonest about what I said. Jim

You said "You are on his team".
Not only is that untrue, it is dishonest, as I have never said that, and you have no right to assign it to me.
You stated it as FACT.
It is NOT a fact.

I would say next time just ASK me where I stand, but I have been down that road here before, and if what I claim as my own don't go along with what has already been ASSIGNED to me by that person, he then just glosses over it or changes tactics.

The sickening part is, that people here that press SO hard about "where you stand" don't want to know so they can agree with you, they want to know so they can ridicule you.
They aren't looking to include, they are looking to EXCLUDE.
They want a villan, right here in their midst, one that they can spew thier displeasure upon.
And if you don't give them one, they will make one.

It's shameful.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by dratts: I know exactly how boondawg feels. I've been getting the same treatment. No matter how many times I say that I'm not an Obama supporter, democrat, or liberal, I get the same thing and I've said it dozens of times. It's kind of like when Bush said "you're either with us or against us". THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND! It's not necessary to pick liberal or conservative. I find things that I like and things that don't like in both conservatives and liberals. When I criticize a conservative it does not mean that I'm liberal and if I criticize a liberal it doesn't mean that I am a conservative. It's a free country and I can pick and choose if I want to.

Last time I did this over the forum, somebody told me it meant I wasn't genuine, so I'm going to PM you.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: It's shameful.

Did you notice the negative posts towards you start to increase after Jazzman "left"?

Or was that just perceived by me?

quote Originally posted by dratts: It's a free country and I can pick and choose if I want to.

And in my opinion that makes you more of a patriot then someone "spewing the company line".
Your's is the harder job.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: You said "You are on his team". Not only is that untrue, it is dishonest, as I have never said that, and you have no right to assign it to me. You stated it as FACT. It is NOT a fact. I would say next time just ASK me where I stand, but I have been down that road here before, and if what I claim as my own don't go along with what has already been ASSIGNED to me by that person, he then just glosses over it or changes tactics. The sickening part is, that people here that press SO hard about "where you stand" don't want to know so they can agree with you, they want to know so they can ridicule you. They aren't looking to include, they are looking to EXCLUDE. They want a villan, right here in their midst, one that they can spew on. And if you don't give them one, they will make you one. It's shameful.

I know you don't like to be labeled, and I hope you are less upset than you seem, for your health and for my happiness.

I have some questions.

Why do you take something like this so personally? You seem to be hurt by these things on a very deep emotional level, and I have never understood why.
Why do you come into political topics when you know the segregation that takes place? Do you wish to change things? I do hope to, a little bit, but I don't take things as personally as you so I think it's "safer". For you, it's like a kid running into a warzone. I worry for your feelings, genuinely.
Why have I noticed a trend with you "poking fun" at the Conservatives on political topics, saying things like we'll never actually listen, or the Liberals are speaking to brick walls, when you claim to not be on a side? Maybe my notice just literally isn't true, and for that, I accept that I may be wrong. But it's just an observation, you can take it how you will.

To me, it seems that you like to "play ball" on the left side, but then still come over to the right and be accepted on their team too. There shouldn't even be teams in the first place, and I think you agree with that, but I'm using the analogy for a reason. People have brought up the notion of teams on here quite a bit, and I don't like it, but unfortunately there are teams.

The biggest point of all this is: I do understand that you believe yourself to be bipartisan (my opinion doesn't matter on that at all, as you correctly pointed out), and I understand that you don't like being labeled. So why... torture yourself my coming into these topics? I wish I could say I would walk through the most dangerous part of any city because I shouldn't have to worry about anything, and they shouldn't be "mean" to me, but the reality is I would have to worry. The same goes here. These topics are dangerous alleyways for a guy like you. Why do you walk through them?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I couldn't say, but I did & do agree with some of the points he was trying to make. Maybe it just seems that way becouse we are somewhat alike in our thoughts and the way we come across when expressing that.

I think a lot of people liked and agreed with jazz on many things, at least until the end when things went south for him on here.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I know you don't like to be labeled, and I hope you are less upset than you seem, for your health and for my happiness.

I am not upset.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Why do you take something like this so personally? You seem to be hurt by these things on a very deep emotional level, and I have never understood why.

I will NEVER be told what I do or don't think or do or don't stand for.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Why do you come into political topics when you know the segregation that takes place? Do you wish to change things? I do hope to, a little bit, but I don't take things as personally as you so I think it's "safer". For you, it's like a kid running into a warzone. I worry for your feelings, genuinely.

Becouse I am always eager to learn new thoughts & ideas.
And I am NEVER rude or attack another for it.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Why have I noticed a trend with you "poking fun" at the Conservatives on political topics, saying things like we'll never actually listen, or the Liberals are speaking to brick walls, when you claim to not be on a side? Maybe my notice just literally isn't true, and for that, I accept that I may be wrong. But it's just an observation, you can take it how you will.

I'm a joker.
Being funny is what I do to lighten the mood, or to just take the opportunity to laugh at ourselves.
It's always in good fun, never ment to hurt or degrade.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: To me, it seems that you like to "play ball" on the left side, but then still come over to the right and be accepted on their team too. There shouldn't even be teams in the first place, and I think you agree with that, but I'm using the analogy for a reason. People have brought up the notion of teams on here quite a bit, and I don't like it, but unfortunately there are teams.

I do not belong to any group, side, team, or club.
Nor will I ever.
My thoughts, idea's, and actions are all my own, and require no support or fellowship from others.
I have always done me all on my own.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: The biggest point of all this is: I do understand that 1. you believe yourself to be bipartisan (my opinion doesn't matter on that at all, as you correctly pointed out), and I understand that 2. you don't like being labeled.

1. I do.
2. I do not.
And I will not let someone do it to me.
I am not "white".
I am not "low, middle, or upper" class.
I am not "right or left".
I am a free man.
Free to choose what I am.
I don't choose it for others and I will not have it choosen for me.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: So why... torture yourself my coming into these topics? I wish I could say I would walk through the most dangerous part of any city because I shouldn't have to worry about anything, and they shouldn't be "mean" to me, but the reality is I would have to worry. The same goes here. These topics are dangerous alleyways for a guy like you. Why do you walk through them?

Because it is my right?
Because I will not be intimidated?
I don't dislike politics, I dislike bullsh!t tactics.
I'm fine with whatever anyone has to say, as long as they are not besmerching me by telling me who I am or am not & what I do or don't stand for.
And although I am singular in my beliefs, I still care about what my fellow man thinks about.
I still believe in people.

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

Peace on Earth, good will toward men.
That is my dream.

Thanx for asking!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-17-2012).]

And similarly, thanks for the reply. I understand your jokes, they just didn't seem that light hearted to me, and I understand not being on a team, as I'm certainly not. I also understand that you are curious about other beliefs, and care about man in general. I still dont understand some things, but that's okay.

Boonie's type of person/mentality are the very core of the People who make up the group of Society called 'swing-voters'...but what seperates Boonie, and quite a few others IN that group from the rest, is the fact that THEY LISTEN, DO NOT DISPARAGE OTHERS' VIEWS, BUT QUESTION THEM, NO MATTER WHO HOLDS THEM. THEY HAVE AN OPEN, INTELLIGENT MIND, AND COULD PROBABLY ENSURE THAT THE BEST GOVERNMENT FOR THE COUNTRY BECOMES ELECTED.
So take care about whom you 'fanatics' on either side deride and sneer at. Because THEY ARE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO MIGHT GET 'YOUR TEAM' ELECTED
I'm not sorry for shouting...although I accept it is probably as pointless as whispering, considering the closed-mindedness of most of the politically outspoken on this Forum, on EITHER side of the 'Aisle'.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I understand your jokes, they just didn't seem that light hearted to me,

But that is how they are intended. Look back again at how this all started in this thread.
Completely lighthearted.
Not to mention purely speculative.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Boonie's type of person/mentality are the very core of the People who make up the group of Society called 'swing-voters'...but what seperates Boonie, and quite a few others IN that group from the rest, is the fact that THEY LISTEN, DO NOT DISPARAGE OTHERS' VIEWS, BUT QUESTION THEM, NO MATTER WHO HOLDS THEM. THEY HAVE AN OPEN, INTELLIGENT MIND, AND COULD PROBABLY ENSURE THAT THE BEST GOVERNMENT FOR THE COUNTRY BECOMES ELECTED. So take care about whom you 'fanatics' on either side deride and sneer at. Because THEY ARE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO MIGHT GET 'YOUR TEAM' ELECTED I'm not sorry for shouting...although I accept it is probably as pointless as whispering, considering the closed-mindedness of most of the politically outspoken on this Forum, on EITHER side of the 'Aisle'.

doubtfull.. . 80% of voters are swing votors.. they vote for who's going to give them MORE.. not whats going to be best for the greater good of ALL.. it's become,all about what can you do for #1.. f everybody else.. thats how 80% vote.. 20% vote thinking whats best for the country.. even if it might hurt them allitle..
thats not a swing votor.. thats a national pride voter.. there IS a DIFFERENCE

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 07-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Boonie's type of person/mentality are the very core of the People who make up the group of Society called 'swing-voters'...but what seperates Boonie, and quite a few others IN that group from the rest, is the fact that THEY LISTEN, DO NOT DISPARAGE OTHERS' VIEWS, BUT QUESTION THEM, NO MATTER WHO HOLDS THEM. THEY HAVE AN OPEN, INTELLIGENT MIND, AND COULD PROBABLY ENSURE THAT THE BEST GOVERNMENT FOR THE COUNTRY BECOMES ELECTED. So take care about whom you 'fanatics' on either side deride and sneer at. Because THEY ARE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO MIGHT GET 'YOUR TEAM' ELECTED I'm not sorry for shouting...although I accept it is probably as pointless as whispering, considering the closed-mindedness of most of the politically outspoken on this Forum, on EITHER side of the 'Aisle'.

I think i'm in love.

As far as the election goes, may the best man for the job win!
Now we just need to FIND him!

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: doubtfull.. more like afraid to make a stand and let the cards fall where they may.

You are wrong.
But I don't expect you to believe it, knowing my fears (of what others here will think of my opinions) as well as you think you do.
Nonetheless, you are wrong.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: doubtfull.. more like afraid to make a stand and let the cards fall where they may.. as he doesn't want a lable.. 80% of voters are swing votors.. they vote for who's going to give them MORE.. not whats going to be best for the greater good of ALL.. it's become,all about what can you do for #1.. f everybody else.. thats how 80% vote.. 20% vote thinking whats best for the country.. even if it might hurt them allitle.. thats not a swing votor.. thats a national pride voter.. there IS a DIFFERENCE

You could not, IM MY HUMBLE OPINION, be more wrong. The actual number of 'swing voters' at ANY election, be it in America, Britain, Holland, Germany etc etc , usually condense down to between 15 and 20%. And of that 15-20%, probably MOST of them vote intelligently. It is the diehard extremes who simply vote the same way no matter WHAT who elect the wrong people and wrong Governments. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I know i haven't treated you poorly, but i disagree about being a middle ground. Not with this guy, don't give him a inch no compromise. He is death to this country.

I don't remember you ever treating me poorly. I value your point of view and agree with you a lot of the time. I don't agree with anyone all of the time. I'm not going to name names partly because I don't remember everyone who has classified me, and anyway I wouldn't want to stir things up. There are some people on the forum who do have totally closed minds. Those are the ones who I often disagree with. It's just not ONE way. There are good ideas on the conservative side and good ideas on the liberal side. Also bad ideas from both sides. I think that us centrists are the ones who will decide things because the hard core on both sides will not budge. I know, labeling us centrists as the deciders sounds a bit egotistical. Sorry about that.

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal:80% of voters are swing votors.. they vote for who's going to give them MORE.. not whats going to be best for the greater good of ALL.. it's become,all about what can you do for #1.. f everybody else.. thats how 80% vote.. 20% vote thinking whats best for the country.. even if it might hurt them allitle.. thats not a swing votor.. thats a national pride voter.. there IS a DIFFERENCE

Huh, if someone wants to guarantee my vote, they will run on the "not a single dime will be spent that we do not already have, all raises in payments are frozen, and taxes will be raised until the debt is equal to zero in X years." I can only imagine how well we could all be doing if there was no debt. Think, we could spend that big pile of money and know it will be replaced and not spent on interest.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: That is true, 12/21/12 may very well be the end of the world as we know it afterall.

More like November X, 2012 (whatever election day is).

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: Huh, if someone wants to guarantee my vote, they will run on the "not a single dime will be spent that we do not already have, all raises in payments are frozen, and taxes will be raised until the debt is equal to zero in X years." I can only imagine how well we could all be doing if there was no debt. Think, we could spend that big pile of money and know it will be replaced and not spent on interest.

So Ron Paul then?

Brad

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: Huh, if someone wants to guarantee my vote, they will run on the "not a single dime will be spent that we do not already have, all raises in payments are frozen, and taxes will be raised until the debt is equal to zero in X years." I can only imagine how well we could all be doing if there was no debt. Think, we could spend that big pile of money and know it will be replaced and not spent on interest.

YOU DO UNDERSTAND 50% OF THE NATIONAL DEBT IS COOKING THE BOOKS.. when one dept. "borrows" from another dept.. that owed is added to the debt.. when it was an inter dept transfer.. nothing more..
like the hyway safty will have 10 billion they are not going to spent this year.. they let the labor debt "borrow it" and the debt # goes up 10 billion.. when it really was just another dept spending another dept's "alloted funds"
cause who's gonna get behind new taxes if the budget is balanced. eh
the irs killes any business that plays the cook the books games the feds do..
remember don't steal, the government don't like competition

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 07-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: ... if that many vote him back in.. And I mean the electoral college.. then washington as a whole needs to go.

Wrong !
First, in a round-a-bout way, though I am not sure it is the best system, the Electoral College is a voted for entity. Secondly, Washington used to work and can be made to work again. The voting process is the problem. A topic I have addressed and am willing to do so again.

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: ... his own party has to know he is dangerous and the death to that party.. even if stepping back and see'n that giving up 4 years is better than total death.

Study history. I am a high school drop out and this I know, ... the Progressives played this hand before. They gained traction/power. Their ideals crashed and burned so bad, that they went into hiding, politically. Only to finally resurface again. This time, they did their homework well. It involved years of work, with the infiltration of the schools (indoctrination) and the media (propaganda). The icing on their cake is the enslavement of much of the population into dependence on the government. Be it free money or answers to their woes. Vote buying in reference to my first point (not the only voting process problem).
Many in his party, the Democratic Party, do think the Progressive Movement (Nobama is just a figurehead, the man in front of the curtain) is dangerous but they can not do anything about it. If they want backing from the party. Many in the party do not think he is doing enough.
The Progressive ideology crashed and burned before. I am not studious enough to know the why's. It will crash and burn again, but at what cost? Civil war ?

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: ... the popular vote is really a bunch of b/s as the electoral college never has to vote the way of their people.. sadly thats true.. the electoral college should've died about 80 years ago.. as information flowed fast enough by then .to not need that "college" vote..

Educate me. How often did the Electoral College not vote the way the people wished and what elections were impacted diversely ? Information availability was not the reason the Electoral college was devised.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: More like November X, 2012 (whatever election day is).

I think people would be zombiefied and staggering around in a daze for a few weeks before taking to the streets and making Syria look like a picnic.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: If he were to get a 2nd term, the "American Experiment" will be over and it will be time to lower the flag.

The "American Experiment" was never a success because of quitters.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 07-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: You said "You are on his team". Not only is that untrue, it is dishonest, as I have never said that, and you have no right to assign it to me. You stated it as FACT. It is NOT a fact. I would say next time just ASK me where I stand, but I have been down that road here before, and if what I claim as my own don't go along with what has already been ASSIGNED to me by that person, he then just glosses over it or changes tactics. The sickening part is, that people here that press SO hard about "where you stand" don't want to know so they can agree with you, they want to know so they can ridicule you. They aren't looking to include, they are looking to EXCLUDE. They want a villan, right here in their midst, one that they can spew thier displeasure upon. And if you don't give them one, they will make one. It's shameful.

Whatever Boonie. There was not and never was anything dishonest about anything I said. It was my personal observation. "Maybe" it was an incorrect observation, maybe not. But for you to get as riled up as you have it seems to have hit close to the mark. I'm done with this conversation, and I don't think any less of you. If you believe that or not is totally up to you, and I will not spend another second trying to convince you. What is really shameful is you calling me dishonest.

Jim

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I read it, too. But it was still only conjecture. I mean, how can you actually know something like this?: ... but he had the national media ACTIVELY running interference for him, downplaying and obscuring his real core beliefs. But even THEY can't keep hiding who he really is. He just keeps opening his mouth, thinking every word is intellectual gold. (in his mind). He is letting all Americans know is an out-and-out socialist.

Do you need a grant for a government study ? If the media walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, ..., Boondawg, who are the owners of the main duck media ? Their admitted political affiliations and the causes they put their money to should be a hint.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 07-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Who funded the government to give these grants ? The top earning 5% of the population pays 95% of the tax revenue. Which administration allocated those tax dollars ? Gore's ? The government funded Solyndra and other failedgreen boondagles.

Cliff, I have to disagree with this rhetorical soundbite that slips so glibly from peoples' lips .
99% OF MIDDLE-CLASS AND POOR PEOPLE end up contributing 100% of their 'salary' to taxes. May not be 'income tax'...but once all the taxes are poured into the melting pot...you want to tell me WHICH of the dollars in the melting pot are INCOME TAX, and which of the others are sales taxes etc. etc.etc.? You can't, and nobody else can either.
The only people who do not end up paying ALL their income into the taxes cauldron one way or another, are those who have enough to save, after they have spent all they need. Their savings/investments are no longer subject to taxes until they withdraw them...and then they are only liable for tax on the PROFITS. And they pay a very much lower tax on that than people pay on the money they earn every day working.
I am open to correction, as always, and no doubt some will try their best

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Whatever Boonie. There was not and never was anything dishonest about anything I said. It was my personal observation. "Maybe" it was an incorrect observation, maybe not. But for you to get as riled up as you have it seems to have hit close to the mark. I'm done with this conversation, and I don't think any less of you. If you believe that or not is totally up to you, and I will not spend another second trying to convince you. What is really shameful is you calling me dishonest. Jim

You said I was on his team.
I told you that was not true.
Rather then just apoligize for your mistake, you went with deflection.

Until then, it wasn't a huge deal to me.
And I had/have no intent of holding it against you.

If you look back to one of my posts here, you will see I even mention this very thing that is happening right now.
It's not unusual here, or even a really big deal.

But I don't believe you were any more offended by what I said then I was by what you said.
I'll call it a draw if you will.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Who funded the government to give these grants ? The top earning 5% of the population pays 95% of the tax revenue. Which administration allocated those tax dollars ? Gore's ? The government funded Solyndra and other failedgreen boondagles.

It makes you wonder how many other failed green boondawgles we haven't heard about.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It makes you wonder how many other failed green boondawgles we haven't heard about.

....and how many BILLIONS, possibly TRILLIONS of dollars in taxes,the powerfully influential and 'untouchable' keep from public view, AND the tax coffers . That WE haven't heard of...yet .
Edited to add: ON BOTH SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM . After all...how many Socialist/Democrat Politicians are as poor as church mice? . I have yet to see a Politician who has NOT been exceedingly financially secure...on either side, and before stepping into the blighted system of Government which is laughingly called Government OF the People, BY the People.
Impossible I know nowadays...but just show me ONE influential Politician who had as much or as little AFTER his 'term', as before...and I will show you an HONEST POLITICIAN, who IS a Politician BECAUSE he is honest, and wants the best for his Country.
The only Politician who remotely could fill that post out of the current crop, and the PAST crop, is Ron Paul. Yes, I know much less about him than most of you do because I don't live there. But after 65 years on this Planet, I think I am pretty good at summing up Character and personality. I raerly have been wrong about PFF Members...why not Politicians...after all, I only read what they say, and what others might say about them .

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 07-17-2012).]