Originally posted by JazzMan: So you seem to be saying that you have no choice but to keep your posts in this topic political in nature? That you cannot contribute in any other way? That you cannot change? What drives that choice? Or since it's not apparently a choice with you, what drives you?
You seem to be saying that you have no choice but to keep reading a thread you don't approve of. You can choose to not read it, hit the back button on your browser, and read something else. What drives you?
I'm not the only one who is posting politics in this thread, but you've taken issue ONLY with my posts. That seems like an almost creepy obsession - maybe pathological - with me. You've complained about no one else. You cannot contribute in any other way? You cannot change?
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It's not about intellectual capital (whatever the hell that means), its about respect and about decision-making.
Yes, it certainly is. And you seem to be saying that you are incapable of leaving a thread you don't approve of. Can you not change?
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You're the one posting what you write. Nobody else is forcing you to, at gunpoint or otherwise.
I'm curious, since you like to talk about choice and forcing, who is holding the gun to your head to read this thread?
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You sit at your keyboard and freely type what ever you want to,
Yes. That's how the internet works.
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and in this thread you only type political and personal attacks.
Wrong. I've posted links to news articles talking about the person who perpetrated the crime which precipitated the subject of this thread.
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39 posts so far.
Thank you for the JazzMan Post Counter TM. It goes nicely with the "JazzMan is the new moderator" motif.
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Let me let you into a little secret: You can choose the high road even if others choose the low road. You *have* a choice, fierobear, you really do. You can choose to post diatribes, rants, attacks against enemies (perceived or otherwise), you can do all of those things. Or, you can man up and choose to behave like an adult and do the right thing.
It's your choice.
Let me let you in on a little secret: you can choose not to read a thread you don't like. You *have* a choice, JazzMan, to "man up" and not read something you don't like. You can act like an adult and not show an obsession with me while saying nothing to anyone else about doing the same thing.
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Do the right thing, fierobear, show some respect for Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of this horrific tragedy.
BTW, although this thread wasn't marked political, the title of the thread is "Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords reportedly shot in Tuscon", not "Memorial for the Victims". Seems more like a news thread than a memorial. If you are so concerned about Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims, why not do the adult thing and just start a memorial thread instead of obsessing about me and a thread with content of which you don't approve?
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11:14 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by newf: I guess my point to you was the labelling and finger pointing is happening from both sides but you seem only to be pointing it out from one side as wrong. If you could swallow your pride for a minute and admit it's a problem from anyone who chooses to do so I would have no problem agreeing with you on the matter.
newf, I've told you what I'm saying, and you seem to not accept that and continue to suggest otherwise. Our conversation is over.
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11:16 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
yes....his wallowing & flailing has really gone to epic levels, eh?
wonder if he'll argue Timothy McViegh was not a righty too?
Right or left, politically motivated or not, the actions of a crazy person are just that! It is a horrible tragedy for anyone to lose their life, or to have to go through what Rep. Gifford's and her family will have ahead because of the actions of one very sick individual. It is also tragic that the state of our political system in this country has become what it has, with both sides viciously labeling the other for their benefit. Whether it be inuendo, or frontal attacks, the bickering between political opponents in our Country is foolish, and unproductive to the true nature of government. The political stage is becoming nothing more that one of the many reality shows that plague the T.V. networks, only we expect these fools to govern us and make wise decisions for our Country.
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11:18 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Clever, Marvin. But I guess you haven't been keeping up with the news. The right is constantly portrayed as "violent and hate filled", including the description of the shooter, but with no evidence. I object to that. I've seen numerous leftists calling for violence. That's my point. Yeah, I know, you don't believe me and don't care. OK.
You seem to be saying that you have no choice but to keep reading a thread you don't approve of. You can choose to not read it, hit the back button on your browser, and read something else. What drives you? ...
BTW, although this thread wasn't marked political, the title of the thread is "Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords reportedly shot in Tuscon", not "Memorial for the Victims". Seems more like a news thread than a memorial. If you are so concerned about Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims, why not do the adult thing and just start a memorial thread instead of obsessing about me and a thread with content of which you don't approve?
You finally admit the thread was intended to not be political. That's good. It's a small step, but any step is progress, even if it's only after 8 pages.
Gabrielle Giffords has been a supporter of motorcycle-related causes for over two decades, rides, and races. She's the real deal when it comes to motorcycling. She's worked hard in her position in government to support motorcycling, and that's a cause I fully agree with. That's what drives me, because I am a rider too.
I keep coming to this thread to see if anyone had posted something new about her and about this tragedy. Instead I find a few people ranting about politics and making personal attacks. You stand out. You mock me and others, insult and attack, lie and insinuate, make groundless accusations, and generally behave like a petulant child. I'm nod making you behave like this, I'm merely pointing it out.
This thread is not the political platform you so desperately seem to need, it was never intended to be. You merely saw a weak excuse to jump in and make it one, like so many threads before.
Again, I ask you, contribute to this thread on topic. Just this one thread. Of the 287 posts in this topic so far 42 are yours, that's almost 15% of the posts, and they're all political or personal attacks or diatribes/rants. One in seven, and nothing related to the thread topic.
Be different.
Be better than that.
[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 01-18-2011).]
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11:47 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
You finally admit the thread was intended to not be political. That's good. It's a small step, but any step is progress, even if it's only after 8 pages.
I never said it wasn't. You're just playing absurd games. And you still haven't admitted that I neither started the political banter nor was I the only contributor. You still haven't admitted that Neptune's suggestion "we must know the shooter" was way out of line nor have you taken issue with it, so you must agree with it? You still haven't admitted that you have a choice not to read it or my posts, and have the freedom to start a memorial thread if you are so concern.
Clever, but wrong, Jazz.
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Gabrielle Giffords has been a supporter of motorcycle-related causes for over two decades, rides, and races. She's the read deal when it comes to motorcycling. She's worked hard in her position in government to support motorcycling, and that's a cause I fully agree with. That's what drives me, because I am a rider too.
She's also considered a moderate Democrat. You OK with that?
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I keep coming to this thread to see if anyone had posted something new about her and about this tragedy.
Wow, really? You have the entire internet at your disposal, but you come to this thread for news? You could read the news, you know. Oh, wait, then you'd have to leave this thread you seem incapable of leaving. Never mind. Here is some news for you:
CAUTION! Clicking on this link will take you from this thread, which you seem unable to leave!
Instead I find a few people ranting about politics and making personal attacks. You stand out.
Really? Could that be because we disagree, politically? You didn't object to Neptune's post. Can we assume you agree with it?
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You mock me and others, insult and attack, lie and insinuate, make groundless accusations, and generally behave like a petulant child. I'm nod making you behave like this, I'm merely pointing it out.
Well, aren't we all blessed by our new moderator for forum behavior. I mock you because you have a choice not to read, but you continue. I mock folks like madcurl because he keeps posting Sarah Palin's web site info with no evidence that the shooter ever even read her website.
I *lie*? What lies? Oh, that's right, you like accusing others of lying. Now I remember (you liked to do that before you acted like a petulant child, and picked up your toys and went home because you couldn't stand O/T politics). Please, tell me what I'm lying about, this should be interesting.
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This thread is not the political platform you so desperately seem to need, it was never intended to be. You merely saw a weak excuse to jump in and make it one, like so many threads before.
Yet you just posted how Giffords is a political advocate for motorcycles. So which is it, Jazz, you approve of discussing politics or not?
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Again, I ask you, contribute to this thread on topic. Just this one thread. Of the 287 posts in this topic so far 42 are yours, that's almost 15% of the posts, and they're all political or personal attacks or diatribes/rants. One in seven, and nothing related to the thread topic.
Wow. ALMOST 15% of the posts. No comment whatsoever about the other 85%. Is that because you agree with the others, politically?
As far as contributions, I've posted several links to information about the shooter. That you don't approve does not mean they aren't contributions.
You mentioned that you like Giffords because she's a motorcycle advocate. I've contributed comments about politics because conservatives in general, Beck, Palin, the Tea Party and others have been falsely accused of being complicit. Now I'm confident you have no appreciation for any of the aforementioned, but I do. I'm a member of the Tea Party. When the Tea Party is mentioned with no evidence to back it up, that's a lie. I strongly object to that, and it's my right to do so. If you don't approve, then how about NOT reading my posts? Or can you no use the "scroll bars" of your browser to simply skip past my posts? Can you make that choice? Can you?
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12:20 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by JazzMan: I keep coming to this thread to see if anyone had posted something new about her and about this tragedy. Instead I find a few people ranting about politics and making personal attacks.
Be sure to include yourself as one of the ranters. Stop jumping up and down stomping your feet complaining other people are acting like children.
Take your own advice and be better than that.
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12:37 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
I think her husband needs to insure Gabby and the whole family stay above the fray. Time to hire a family spokesperson to insure this happens. And they should do it now before the buzzards start eating their prey. Sure there are tons of six figure offers, and maybe even a seven figure offer for the first interview of her. The media are slime balls, as anyone paying attention can see. They will use anyone close to her, and even have no problem using her to forward their Agenda. He needs to keep her secluded and shielded from those with an agenda, and he needs to seclude himself. The press in better at asking questions than one is answering them. He or no one knows what she will be like now, or how long it will be before she even resembles who she once was.
According to recent reports (last night as a matter of fact) the attending physicians are saying it may just be a matter of a few days before she's able to leave the hospital and start physical therapy. Amazing.....a few days after a 9mm headshot. Let's pray the press leaves her alone and allows her to continue the healing process in peace.
She seems to be one remarkable lady. Here's to her swift recovery!
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02:39 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
According to recent reports (last night as a matter of fact) the attending physicians are saying it may just be a matter of a few days before she's able to leave the hospital and start physical therapy. Amazing.....a few days after a 9mm headshot. Let's pray the press leaves her alone and allows her to continue the healing process in peace.
She seems to be one remarkable lady. Here's to her swift recovery!
I'll second that prayer (although I'm not very confident the media will leave her alone).
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03:50 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
... Glenn ... has NEVER advocated shooting people or violence in any way. If you can prove otherwise, present your evidence.
May 17 2005:
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BECK: Hang on, let me just tell you what I'm thinking. I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out -- is this wrong? I stopped wearing my What Would Jesus -- band -- Do, and I've lost all sense of right and wrong now. I used to be able to say, "Yeah, I'd kill Michael Moore," and then I'd see the little band: What Would Jesus Do? And then I'd realize, "Oh, you wouldn't kill Michael Moore. Or at least you wouldn't choke him to death." And you know, well, I'm not sure.
I've got more if you want?
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09:54 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by ryan.hess: I've got more if you want?
Uh...OK...there is a classic case of "context". I'm sure I saw that show, and I'm trying to remember the entire context from that entire 22 SECONDS you posted. I think he was referring to the "useless idiots" concept from Stalin, where the first people who were killed were the "loyal supporters" that were closest to Stalin.
As for the the 2005 comment, that was long before I started listening to him, you've provided no link to the source, and I'd like to see if there is a context issue.
Yes, I'm sure you can take 22 seconds of a 20 minute monologue and create something that sounds damning. Are you REALLY that desperate, ryan? Geez.
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11:12 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Uh...OK...there is a classic case of "context". I'm sure I saw that show, and I'm trying to remember the entire context from that entire 22 SECONDS you posted. I think he was referring to the "useless idiots" concept from Stalin, where the first people who were killed were the "loyal supporters" that were closest to Stalin.
As for the the 2005 comment, that was long before I started listening to him, you've provided no link to the source, and I'd like to see if there is a context issue.
Yes, I'm sure you can take 22 seconds of a 20 minute monologue and create something that sounds damning. Are you REALLY that desperate, ryan? Geez.
Yes, yes... I'm sure we're all missing the great big picture. And I'm sure he doesn't actually want to kill Michael Moore...
Or the Speaker of the House?
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"So, Speaker Pelosi, I just wanted to -- you gonna drink your wine? Are you blind? Do those eyes not work? There you -- I want you to drink it now. Drink it. Drink it. Drink it.
I really just wanted to thank you for having me over here to wine country. You know, to be invited, I thought I had to be a major Democratic donor or a longtime friend of yours, which I'm not.
By the way, I put poison in your -- no, I -- I look forward to all the policy discussions that we're supposed to have -- you know, on health care, energy reform, and the economy."
-Glenn Beck 8/6/09
Out of context again? I can keep going?
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11:23 AM
PFF
System Bot
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
You should share this show with all of your friends. It is so important. On Wednesday, Glenn showed us on the chalkboard the difference between revolutionaries and politicians. They are using each other for power and control; the only thing left to decide is who will win in the end because only one of these groups will be left standing. Remember, revolutionaries don't mind anarchy, they don't mind violence. The more violent the revolutionaries become, the more the politicians have to move to total government..oh, what a trap that have laid for us.
================================================
Poor ryan...doesn't know that you can find archives of Glenn's ENTIRE show, not just a carefully edited 22 seconds. Nice try, ryan.
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11:27 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
So has anyone even have a clue if the shooter watched or listened to any of the so-called hate spewers on the left or right? I am sure there are those who want to tie him to the other side, but as of now he was the lone assassin, no conspiracy at this point.
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11:38 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Ryan, do you want to have a serious conversation about this, or are you satisfied just being a smart ass?
Oh damnation all to hell. I made the mistake of reading this while drinking and now my keyboard is ruined. Probably the best example of irony I've seen in years.
Now back on topic in this non-political thread, yes, it blows me away that a person who just 12 days ago had a bullet travel the length of her brain can now stand. I've seen statistics that say 95% of people with bullet injuries to the brain die. Amazing what she's doing. Her strength of will is mind-blowing.
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12:32 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by fierobear: It depends on the current conversation. I was discussing facts with ryan, or trying to. Do you not know the difference?
no....no you are not. you are spouting opinions on interpetations.
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12:33 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Oh damnation all to hell. I made the mistake of reading this while drinking and now my keyboard is ruined. Probably the best example of irony I've seen in years.
What I'm talking about is having a debate on facts. Sometimes, you talk facts, sometimes you exchange barbs. When you mix them, it doesn't help the debate. If this wasn't personal with you, you'd see that.
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12:51 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
It depends on the current conversation. I was discussing facts with ryan, or trying to. Do you not know the difference?
I have noticed that a number of the "conversations" you participate in typically are filled with insults, and your standard rhetoric. You are an very opinionated individual, but your political views are extremely myopic. With information so readily available at our fingertips, it is extremely easy for someone to find their own version of facts for any given topic. Your one-sided research, opinion, and "fact" posting does not make you right.
It would seem that the majority of posters who participate in political discussions here in O/T have political views similar to your own, so it is rather easy for you to continue to act the way you do, since most would not bother to say "hey, tone it down, you are beginning to look like an ass." So guess what, I am going to say it. Stop acting like an ass.
Debate, intelligent conversation, and intellectual arguments can be enjoyable. They let people of different opinion discuss and share their views on the topic. Ranting, insulting, and derogatory comments are nothing more than bullying. They serve little purpose in adult conversation, and make the person who uses these methods look like an idiot. We are adults here, so if you have a difference of opinion with another poster, try to keep it civil and above board. Try debating a topic, rather than ranting. Do you know the difference?
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01:18 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I have noticed that a number of the "conversations" you participate in typically are filled with insults, and your standard rhetoric. You are an very opinionated individual, but your political views are extremely myopic. With information so readily available at our fingertips, it is extremely easy for someone to find their own version of facts for any given topic. Your one-sided research, opinion, and "fact" posting does not make you right.
Isn't it interesting how, when you disagree with someone, what they say is "myopic" and "rhetoric"?
My views aren't myopic. I've done my homework, and I believe what I believe, not because I want to, but because my belief is based on information. I read a LOT. You've seen me post many links here. For every link I post, I've probably read 2 or 3 various sources, and pick the one source that appears to be the most reliable. If I post an opinion article, it is normally one with links to news sources.
I'm also in my mid 40s. I've seen a lot, experienced a lot, and know what works and what doesn't. Leftist policies don't work. They are failing all over Europe, and the leftists in this country want to bring those policies here. That is sheer madness. This is MY country, too, and I don't want it to fail. If that makes me pissed off sometimes, so be it.
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It would seem that the majority of posters who participate in political discussions here in O/T have political views similar to your own, so it is rather easy for you to continue to act the way you do, since most would not bother to say "hey, tone it down, you are beginning to look like an ass." So guess what, I am going to say it. Stop acting like an ass.
Debate, intelligent conversation, and intellectual arguments can be enjoyable. They let people of different opinion discuss and share their views on the topic. Ranting, insulting, and derogatory comments are nothing more than bullying. They serve little purpose in adult conversation, and make the person who uses these methods look like an idiot. We are adults here, so if you have a difference of opinion with another poster, try to keep it civil and above board. Try debating a topic, rather than ranting. Do you know the difference?
Yes. I give what I get. I've had many very civil conversations and debates with folks I disagree with. Doni Hagan is one example. Our exchanges have been pretty civil. Same with ryan.hess, until he goes smart ass, then I'll give it back to him. Folks like JazzMan and Neptune, we've been exchanging barbs for years. I tried being civil to them, and it didn't work. We have a history that may predate your joining the forum, or at least the O/T section.
It's pretty simple - be nice to me, I'll be nice to you. Give me crap, and that's what you'll get back. Seriously, it's that simple.
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07:19 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
this was obviously heavily edited - and to top it off, he says 'you're gonna have to shoot them in the head - but warning, they may shoot you' ... and he also said 'shoot ME in the head.'
Glen Beck is a joke, and an easy target. Oops, I said target. Sara Palin is falling into the same habits, and is looking less 'presidential' all the time.
[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 01-21-2011).]
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11:58 PM
Jan 21st, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
this was obviously heavily edited - and to top it off, he says 'you're gonna have to shoot them in the head - but warning, they may shoot you' ... and he also said 'shoot ME in the head.'
Glen Beck is a joke, and an easy target. Oops, I said target. Sara Palin is falling into the same habits, and is looking less 'presidential' all the time.
So, despite having the transcript with the context, you're STILL saying that?
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01:17 AM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
this was obviously heavily edited - and to top it off, he says 'you're gonna have to shoot them in the head - but warning, they may shoot you' ... and he also said 'shoot ME in the head.'
Glen Beck is a joke, and an easy target. Oops, I said target. Sara Palin is falling into the same habits, and is looking less 'presidential' all the time.
I agree that she will not be able to win the top spot, could be decades before a woman on either side does. But the left also eats their own, look at the way they went after Clinton in the primary. This recent Palin bashing that started with the left wing blogs and then had so much steam the left wing press figured it was safe to run with, even thought there was no shred of evidence this guy even saw her map. This was a successful test for the left. Anyone running against Obama can expect even more of this style of treatment. There will be no limit in their efforts to bring down any person who dares to run against the anointed one.
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01:39 AM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
Still on that, Jeff? Haven't we covered that? Is our agreement over?
It did happen. And I did wait until page 8 just in case you might realize your hypocrisy on the topic and sit it out. I'm not suggesting that you actually would endorse a homicide or an attempt, but it is easy to see how violent rhetoric is somehow acceptable and seen as free of consequence. However, some people pick up on that rhetoric and take it seriously. It doesn't have to come from Keith Olberman or Rush Limbaugh. It is everywhere.
