Of course you KNEW this would happen:

Congress Reacts: Dems Propose Gun Restrictions & Ban on ‘Threatening Language or Symbols’

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Of course you KNEW this would happen: Congress Reacts: Dems Propose Gun Restrictions & Ban on ‘Threatening Language or Symbols’

Does this mean that the kill Bush movie will not ever be seen again?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Of course you KNEW this would happen: Congress Reacts: Dems Propose Gun Restrictions & Ban on ‘Threatening Language or Symbols’

So how would the Dems react to statements such as Obama's own "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" rheoteric?

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Does this mean that the kill Bush movie will not ever be seen again?

OH, NO! That's perfectly OK. Because...

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: So how would the Dems react to statements such as Obama's own "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" rheoteric?

..they're hypocrites.

I hesitate to even write in this thread but I have a suggestion. How about when tragic events like this happen we have one thread that stays on the subject of the event and everyone "tries" to refrain from getting into some kind of political debate.

Discuss the events,the sadness of loss of innocent lives, etc. but create a seperate thread marked political about the same event if you want to spew opinions, suspected motives and other biased thoughts.

For frigg sakes some excuse for a human takes an innocent 9 year old girls life plus many others and there has to be a left right debate??? Pathetic.

Edit to say I'm not trying to call anyone out specifically we all probably do it to some extent I just thought it might be a good idea for those who want to discuss the event itself and stay out of the perceived politics.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 01-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by DRA: But his idealogy, no matter what it may be, is effected by his mentl status. He shot someone who would get him the most noteriety and attention. In this he has succeeded.

This is very similar to when John Hinkley shot President Reagan, it was all about an atttention seeking psycho, not about the politics.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: I hesitate to even write in this thread but I have a suggestion. How about when tragic events like this happen we have one thread that stays on the subject of the event and everyone "tries" to refrain from getting into some kind of political debate. Discuss the events,the sadness of loss of innocent lives, etc. but create a seperate thread marked political about the same event if you want to spew opinions, suspected motives and other biased thoughts. For frigg sakes some excuse for a human takes an innocent 9 year old girls life plus many others and there has to be a left right debate??? Pathetic. Edit to say I'm not trying to call anyone out specifically we all probably do it to some extent I just thought it might be a good idea for those who want to discuss the event itself and stay out of the perceived politics.

Amen. Thank you for your objective viewpoint and voicing your opinion about keeping politics out of this discussion. Looking at some of the comments from the last couple of pages, objectivity died before the end of the second page. Quoting blogs posted by hard right or left wingers is not the method to express outrage over this shooting. Scoring a couple of points using Google seems to be the object here. My heart goes out to the innocent nine year old girl, her family, the representative and all the other victims in this horrible event.

Do people really care all that much that innocent people died? I mean, I see a lot of responses from members here that try to somehow 'prove' they are above the fray by tongue lashing at everybody else and then assuming the higher moral role about "prayers and thoughts" go out to the families, when in fact people give second passing thoughts to the matter.

I mean, which one of you went down on your knees, burned a candle or meditated a deep thought about the welfare of the families and friends who would be affected by this event? All you really did was post something on a car forum.

You know, I knew this would become political real quick, as a member of Congress was hit and that will turn political in a heart beat. But is bad as that is, at least the people posting about their thoughts on the matter are really expressing their real thoughts both from the left and right.

But I find most "prayers and thoughts go to the family" as fake and insincere as it can be.

What we have to remember is that none of these people deserved to die. It is the fault of some sick individual that decided he would try to kill as many as he could, for whatever twisted reason he had. Politics and laws would not have prevented this, nor will they in the future.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: What we have to remember is that none of these people deserved to die. It is the fault of some sick individual that decided he would try to kill as many as he could, for whatever twisted reason he had. Politics and laws would not have prevented this, nor will they in the future.

Very well said.

Ron

quote Originally posted by spark1: Arizona Sheriff's (15) are political animals, elected by county voters. Phoenix (Maricopa County) and Tucson (Pima County) are polar opposites politically.

That was kinda my point. For Madcurl to assume that Joe Arpaio is the only Sheriff in AZ. is kind of ludacris. Usually there is a Sheriff Department in each County.

Anyways, this is a very sad thing. My wife was just telling me that Giffords is in a medically induced coma. The 9 year old girl was reported to be in attendence because she wanted to learn more about the government. It's a tragic loss of life no matter how you look at it.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 01-10-2011).]

I can see the usual suspects are still in force. Sad.

All I can observe WRT the situation is that when there's a strong drumbeat of hatred there are going to be fringies that respond by doing things like this. Who's at fault, the fringie or the drum beaters? Is fault shared? I personally think that it should be, but there's no legal way to hold the drumbeaters accountable for the results of their behavior. The same kind of drumbeat of hate got Kennedy killed; I've look at and read much of the hate speech and vilification that went on back then. Little different than today in many respects. I'm just surprised this didn't happen sooner.

In the bigger picture, we really need a way for forum members to change the way a post is tagged. Even though this thread is 90% politics it's not marked political, thus allowing it to show despite the fact that I've got politics and religion turned off. What good is filtering if the filters don't matter? What I think would be a good idea for Cliff to implement would be a thread voting system. If enough people vote a thread (not marked as political) as being political, either from the outset or turned into one by the Usual Suspects, then the appropriate tag would get set and the thread would disappear from the view of those, who like me, have chosen to not read political threads.

Cliff gave me a choice to not see political threads; I'd really like it if that choice mattered.

,,This shooting is totally Political ,,it became more political when the first reports tried to implicate the republican right ,,a Afganistan vet indeed,what a joke..,this guy is another democrat wack job,as 90% of these murderers are ,,there are not many oklahoma city bombers , the right is much more steady
..A scull on his altar ?? typical godless democrat,, what do you expect from these godless atheist Queers ?
..This lady was one of the few good democrats ,she voted against the messiah & his america hating wife.
..this shooting is to big to hide .the media hid or played down 10 or more democrat assault s,murders,kidnappings,hostage holdings,holy Political correctness..
NEVER forget the target thing was started to encourage the murder of President ..BUSH ,the left wrote a book about how to assasinate Bush or Cheney,,crap they even made a Movie

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I can see the usual suspects are still in force. Sad. All I can observe WRT the situation is that when there's a strong drumbeat of hatred there are going to be fringies that respond by doing things like this. Who's at fault, the fringie or the drum beaters? Is fault shared? I personally think that it should be, but there's no legal way to hold the drumbeaters accountable for the results of their behavior. The same kind of drumbeat of hate got Kennedy killed; I've look at and read much of the hate speech and vilification that went on back then. Little different than today in many respects. I'm just surprised this didn't happen sooner. In the bigger picture, we really need a way for forum members to change the way a post is tagged. Even though this thread is 90% politics it's not marked political, thus allowing it to show despite the fact that I've got politics and religion turned off. What good is filtering if the filters don't matter? What I think would be a good idea for Cliff to implement would be a thread voting system. If enough people vote a thread (not marked as political) as being political, either from the outset or turned into one by the Usual Suspects, then the appropriate tag would get set and the thread would disappear from the view of those, who like me, have chosen to not read political threads. Cliff gave me a choice to not see political threads; I'd really like it if that choice mattered.

So you'd see the Daily Kos held accountable criminally for this ?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: In the bigger picture, we really need a way for forum members to change the way a post is tagged. Even though this thread is 90% politics it's not marked political, thus allowing it to show despite the fact that I've got politics and religion turned off. What good is filtering if the filters don't matter? What I think would be a good idea for Cliff to implement would be a thread voting system. If enough people vote a thread (not marked as political) as being political, either from the outset or turned into one by the Usual Suspects, then the appropriate tag would get set and the thread would disappear from the view of those, who like me, have chosen to not read political threads. Cliff gave me a choice to not see political threads; I'd really like it if that choice mattered.

Yes, let's get Cliff to spend god-knows-how many hours coding so you don't have to be bothered with accidentally stumbling onto politics. I'm sure that would be so much easier than your hand guiding your mouse over to the "back" button of your browser.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Oh please. What names did he use?

Last night he singled out Palin and Sharon Angle as spewing hate.
So If in his investigation he find a paper that the shooter has it in for either one, guess he will have to destroy it to keep his reputation.

JazzMan...I too prefer not to read most threads related to commentary about faith and politics, though not all. Respectfully, I accomplish that by simply not opening them. My system works fine thus far.

Cliff likely has enough on his plate as it is.

As a sidebar, though my prayers do go out to the families negatively impacted by this event, I for one fully anticipated this thread would become political in nature. I honestly don't see how it could be avoided considering the nature of the tragedy and those involved. It was, in my opinion, both a tragic human story and a disturbing political one. A member of Congress and a Federal judge were attacked along with 18 innocents. To not expect politics to become part of the discussion would be like initiating a conversation about birds without expecting the subject to include flight.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 01-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: JazzMan...I too prefer not to read most threads related to commentary about faith and politics, though not all. Respectfully, I accomplish that by simply not opening them. My system works fine thus far.

It failed for me because it wasn't marked political and I opened it. By page two it was political, I had a headache, and...well... what else is there to say? I guess if Cliff did institute some way for us non-political folks to vote political threads "off the isle" so to speak the Usual Suspects would just work that much harder to contaminate non-political threads. It's a never-ending battle that we can't win.

I've been on some forums that have an "ignore" feature that works well. If there's a user you'd prefer not to see, you put the user's name in your ignore list and poof, you don't see their posts anymore. I suspect that it would be a fairly easy feature to implement, and being that Cliff is a programmer by living I doubt it would be all that difficult for him to do it, if he chose. I mean, he put in the filtering system, that took some work (wasted, since the Usual Suspects simply ignore it). If that system worked it'd be a lot more pleasant for me and others like me who don't want to read politics.

One of the reasons I walked away from Pennocks was to get away from the politics, and the ensuing character assassination, bullying and intimidation, and general foulness that festers here in the form of right (and left, though a microscopically small segment) wing extremists constantly beating their political meat here in OT. I'm only just getting back to where I can stomach it enough to participate here, but just because I can doesn't mean it's not an extremely unpleasant experience for me. The extremists refuse to follow Cliff's rules on marking political threads, and there's no real way for anyone else to enforce those rules. Why is that acceptable? It's not to me, but apparently I'm in an extreme minority in that respect.

If the Usual Suspects could keep their proverbial political wankers in their pants over in the filtered Politics section then I wouldn't even be typing this now.

@D B Cooper, I don't know what Daily Kos is, but it sounds like something political and as such I have no interest in checking it out enough to respond to your question. That's all I can say to you about that. Sorry.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 01-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: If the Usual Suspects could keep their proverbial political wankers in their pants over in the filtered Politics section then I wouldn't even be typing this now.

And if YOU would simply hit the "back" button when a thread isn't to your liking, then Cliff wouldn't have to spend time programming, everyone else having to hold your hand. But the "usual suspect leftist" evidently can't be adult enough to deal with this himself, so he needs everyone else to do things for him. Sounds like a typical leftist.

quote @D B Cooper, I don't know what Daily Kos is, but it sounds like something political and as such I have no interest in checking it out enough to respond to your question. That's all I can say to you about that. Sorry.

The Daily Kos is a leftist blog. I'll bet you'd like it, given what seems to be your political point of view. Of couse, there's the inconvenient truth that they also "targeted" Giffords. Oops.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Healthcare reform is important. But civility and decency are even more important. Our democracy cannot survive without them. Sticks and stones are not the only things that hurt. Names hurt, too. We will end up not just hating our presidents, but hating each other."

But you can't legislate people into being civil and decent.

A real shame that innocent lives were lost because of one deranged individual.

Also a shame that people bring up twitter pages as a cause of the tradgedy.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT I think the key is to alter our behavior when it comes to Politicians who are really in the public eye.....not censor TV, music, and video games. Hell, I guarantee that if I posted a picture of crosshairs on Obama, I would be getting a visit from a few people within a few hours of posting so why is Palin allowed to do it?

What political office does Ms. Palin hold again? Or is the fact that she used to be in politics enough to censor her rhetoric? Should she not be allowed to speak her mind on her television show? Then again that would contradict your "not censor TV" bit...

oh jeez, that's enough politics for me in one day.

------------------


-Aaron

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: I could have been an 85 SE V6.. never know

It's this lack of civility and decorum which I find disheartening. Attacking, disparaging, insulting. Basically saying, "We brought politics into this non-political thread, if you don't like it, leave".

Doesn't seem like it's really even paying lipservice to Cliff's rules.

I hope that Gabrielle Giffords survives and can return to her job. From what I've read she's been quite a supporter of motorcycle-related issues.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It failed for me because it wasn't marked political and I opened it.

quote Thread Title: Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords reportedly shot in Tuscon

You've been around Pennock's long enough to know that a thread with a Political Representative's name in the title might have a bit of politics in it.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Cliff gave me a choice to not see political threads; I'd really like it if that choice mattered.

There is a way to not see threads marked as political. In the main forum page, if you click on the "+" next to the "Totally O/T" link, you will see a number of topics with check boxes next to it. Uncheck the ones you don't want to see and you won't see them anymore.

[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 01-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: This is somewhat disturbing, the "cross hairs"... and the "help us prescribe a solution"... Hell, even her twitter account is disturbing:

Well it looks like the Democrats did the same thing, this was their “targets for Democratic gains in 2004″:

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's this lack of civility and decorum which I find disheartening. Attacking, disparaging, insulting. Basically saying, "We brought politics into this non-political thread, if you don't like it, leave".

What about a simple, adult decision? "This thread is political, I don't want to talk politics...click". Done. Simple solution, no programming required.

After the Ft. Hood murders, the press was quick to say not to jump to any conclusions even though the attacker was clearly Muslim and yelling, "Allāhu Akbar" while he was killing soldiers.

At the Times Square bombing, the leftist press and a number of politicians and leftist commentaters were quick to say that it was probably done by a Tea Party member or other angry right winger. It wasn't.

Then there was the IRS plane attack which the media and leftists quickly blamed on the right which also turned out to be wrong.

There was also the Pentagon Shooter who was mentally ill and in no way related to any "right wing" movement. Yet the leftists were quick to say he was an anti-government right winger.


So the leftists are 0-4 in just that small slice of recent history.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Well it looks like the Democrats did the same thing, this was their “targets for Democratic gains in 2004″:

If there were a list of names next to it, I'd agree with you. You can't shoot a state...

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: If there were a list of names next to it, I'd agree with you. You can't shoot a state...

So according to you, we should fashion our speech so that we don't provoke anyone that is mentally ill?

[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 01-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: There is a way to not see threads marked as political. In the main forum page, if you click on the "+" next to the "Totally O/T" link, you will see a number of topics with check boxes next to it. Uncheck the ones you don't want to see and you won't see them anymore.

I did that years ago. And yet, here we are. The point I'm trying to make is that the filtering that Cliff implemented only works if everyone plays by the rules. I did my part, unchecked politics and religion. I can't make the political masturbators do their part and mark their threads political, and more importantly, keep their politics out of threads that aren't marked political. Lord, there are more than enough political threads for them to jerk off in, why do they still insist on sliming the rest with their excrescence?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I did that years ago. And yet, here we are. The point I'm trying to make is that the filtering that Cliff implemented only works if everyone plays by the rules. I did my part, unchecked politics and religion. I can't make the political masturbators do their part and mark their threads political, and more importantly, keep their politics out of threads that aren't marked political. Lord, there are more than enough political threads for them to jerk off in, why do they still insist on sliming the rest with their excrescence?

You are crying into the wind. This entire subject was politicized by the leftist media as soon as they opened their mouths and said that it was a "Tea Partier", "right winger" or anything related to Conservative or Replublican. See my post above with three examples from just last year.

I seriously doubt you would be able to keep your politics out of a thread if the media immediately blamed a left-wing Democrat operative for an assassination attempt.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: If there were a list of names next to it, I'd agree with you. You can't shoot a state...

Yea, I don't know what is wrong with me.
Targets, behind enemy lines, Bush written four times and someone with a deranged mind, why that is the secret recipe for love.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I did that years ago. And yet, here we are. The point I'm trying to make is that the filtering that Cliff implemented only works if everyone plays by the rules. I did my part, unchecked politics and religion. I can't make the political masturbators do their part and mark their threads political, and more importantly, keep their politics out of threads that aren't marked political. Lord, there are more than enough political threads for them to jerk off in, why do they still insist on sliming the rest with their excrescence?

And you STILL can't stop reading a thread you say is too political. Is the "back button" on your browser broken?

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: You are crying into the wind. This entire subject was politicized by the leftist media as soon as they opened their mouths and said that it was a "Tea Partier", "right winger" or anything related to Conservative or Replublican. See my post above with three examples from just last year. I seriously doubt you would be able to keep your politics out of a thread if the media immediately blamed a left-wing Democrat operative for an assassination attempt.

You can doubt all you want, and you're free to believe anything you want. One of the things I worked really hard on for the years I was gone from here was figuring out how to cope with people saying things about me that I knew, to my core, were simply not true. These lies were intended to inflict harm upon me, and their progenitors succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. I've walked away from politics. I've grown weary of the filth and lies, games based on winning at any cost rather than finding truth or facts. You can disbelieve that all you want. I've learned that there are people who I wish to associate with, and those who make no difference in my life whatsoever. It's been excruciatingly hard to learn to put people that I've met into the latter group, but I can now. It's unpleasant, like cleaning up dog turds, and I believe to some extent that it lessens a part of me, but no matter. In the long run I believe I will be better for it.

I could care less what happens in politics, or what will become of this country. The extremists have ruined that for me forever. I can still care for individuals who are suffering, such as Gabrielle Giffords, but I could care less what happens for those who fail to exercise some level of decorum and civility, those who cannot or will not show any basic human respect for those around them. And sadly, that would include you.

And Fierobear, this isn't a political thread, remember? You and the others keep bringing politics into it. In fact, of the 21 posts you've made to date in this thread, none have expressed concern for the victim. They've all be political attacks, or other semantic brow-beating posts with no respect for civility. All have been direct or indirect attempts to inject your political bias into the conversation, or to attack others who don't share your bias.

Your contributions here have demonstrated no value, and your personal attacks only show what kind of person you really are, deep down inside. Every iota of your entire existence means nothing to me at all. FWIW.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 01-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: You can doubt all you want, and you're free to believe anything you want. One of the things I worked really hard on for the years I was gone from here was figuring out how to cope with people saying things about me that I knew, to my core, were simply not true. These lies were intended to inflict harm upon me, and their progenitors succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. I've walked away from politics. I've grown weary of the filth and lies, games based on winning at any cost rather than finding truth or facts. You can disbelieve that all you want. I've learned that there are people who I wish to associate with, and those who make no difference in my life whatsoever. It's been excruciatingly hard to learn to put people that I've met into the latter group, but I can now. It's unpleasant, like cleaning up dog turds, and I believe to some extent that it lessens a part of me, but no matter. In the long run I believe I will be better for it. I could care less what happens in politics, or what will become of this country. The extremists have ruined that for me forever. I can still care for individuals who are suffering, such as Gabrielle Giffords, but I could care less what happens for those who fail to exercise some level of decorum and civility, those who cannot or will not show any basic human respect for those around them. And sadly, that would include you.

People generally react to a person's post in the same way it was posted. If you post comments that are respectful, thoughtful and non-aggressive, then even people who disagree with you will generally post like comments back even if they disagree with you.

Frankly, your old posts were inflamitory. You can't start the fire then claim to be a victim of arson.

I hope you stick around this time but if you keep posting the same way as you did last time, then expect the same results. You can either grow a thicker skin, or stop kicking the dogs.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: ,,This shooting is totally Political ,,it became more political when the first reports tried to implicate the republican right ,,a Afganistan vet indeed,what a joke..,this guy is another democrat wack job,as 90% of these murderers are ,,there are not many oklahoma city bombers , the right is much more steady ..A scull on his altar ?? typical godless democrat,, what do you expect from these godless atheist Queers ? ..This lady was one of the few good democrats ,she voted against the messiah & his america hating wife. ..this shooting is to big to hide .the media hid or played down 10 or more democrat assault s,murders,kidnappings,hostage holdings,holy Political correctness.. NEVER forget the target thing was started to encourage the murder of President ..BUSH ,the left wrote a book about how to assasinate Bush or Cheney,,crap they even made a Movie

right on the nutz!!

quote Originally posted by newf: I hesitate to even write in this thread but I have a suggestion. How about when tragic events like this happen we have one thread that stays on the subject of the event and everyone "tries" to refrain from getting into some kind of political debate. Discuss the events,the sadness of loss of innocent lives, etc. but create a seperate thread marked political about the same event if you want to spew opinions, suspected motives and other biased thoughts. For frigg sakes some excuse for a human takes an innocent 9 year old girls life plus many others and there has to be a left right debate??? Pathetic. Edit to say I'm not trying to call anyone out specifically we all probably do it to some extent I just thought it might be a good idea for those who want to discuss the event itself and stay out of the perceived politics.

Unfortunately the press and politicians made it into a political issue long before we did. And now its going to be a rights and freedom issue.

Its the world we live in now.

Cliff, can you close this thread? I think we have gotten the point that this is a political forum.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: If there were a list of names next to it, I'd agree with you. You can't shoot a state...

For those who didn't see the link.....or chose to ignore it!

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 01-10-2011).]