Books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
And if you watch the videos he put up... wow.. um, what the? I don't even..
Clearly a disturbed individual and a true tragedy. This is not political, it's the works of an insane man.
~Tyler
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quote
Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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04:38 PM
williegoat Member
Posts: 20783 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2009
There is a difference between political affiliation and murderer. Some people with homicidal dispositions do these things just for validation. Doesn't matter their political views, they only parrot the catch phrases of the group that incites the most passion.
This would be a tragedy in any situation.
Thank you
Loughner no more represents conservatives than Madcurl represents Fiero enthusiasts. I am conservative and a Fiero enthusiast, and I am not represented by either.
Books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
And if you watch the videos he put up... wow.. um, what the? I don't even..
Clearly a disturbed individual and a true tragedy. This is not political, it's the works of an insane man.
~Tyler
Not to condone what he did and i agree HE had problems, but just because you read books like The Manifesto it doesn't make you an unstable kook. The entire concept of 'association' like that scares me.
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04:46 PM
williegoat Member
Posts: 20783 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2009
Originally posted by User00013170: Not to condone what he did and i agree HE had problems, but just because you read books like The Manifesto it doesn't make you an unstable kook. The entire concept of 'association' like that scares me.
No, what makes him a kook is the videos he created.
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04:50 PM
firstfiero Member
Posts: 4879 From: york,pa,17403 Registered: Dec 2000
No, what makes him a kook is the videos he created.
I wasn't interested enough in him to go watch his videos so i cant comment on that part. The post i was commenting on seemed to directly imply the reading of certain books as an indicator ( or instigator.. ) of a person that is off-kilter and would do such horrible things.
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 01-08-2011).]
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05:05 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
You know, I hate the fact that this event happened. But I also dislike it when people elevate a member of Congress above those who were caught up in the horrific event and that either lost their lives or were wounded as if Gabrielle Gifford's condition status was more important than the others.
The sad thing is that this will turn political for sure.
If any good at all comes from this, perhaps it will be the realization that it's well past time to cool out some of the "them against us" rhetoric. There are those among us who don't know the difference between social discourse and guerrilla warfare. For example, during the last election cycle, Sharon Angle in Nevada suggested that voters apply what she termed as "2nd Amendment remedies" to our political disagreements.
Unfortunately, there ARE people who take that sort of hyperbole literally.
I'm curious to see how long this thread remains on the 1st page.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 01-08-2011).]
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05:21 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
I didn't quote his book list as indication of his mental status, rather, his political leanings. I, myself, have read most of those books but would not tag them as "favorites". His videos and actions are what point to his mental stature.
~Tyler
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06:10 PM
Flamberge Member
Posts: 4268 From: Terra Sancta, TX Registered: Oct 2001
I didn't quote his book list as indication of his mental status, rather, his political leanings. I, myself, have read most of those books but would not tag them as "favorites". His videos and actions are what point to his mental stature.
~Tyler
Ok, then i misunderstood your intent. Sorry about that
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06:22 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
She is not that controversial, basically a blue dog. She is a gun owner and has stood up for gun rights several times. Pushing to overthrow the DC gun ban law. She rides motor cycles and is pretty down to earth. She has been elected three times in a district that has a majority of republicans. She was one of the 13 who voted against Pelosi as the minority leader. She also read the first amendment on the house floor this week. Why this nut job went after her, probably is because he is a nut job.
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07:21 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
I don't see any 'liberal' slant here. Someone is seeing creating boogeymen. This killer is more like Timothy McVeigh with his dystopian views and narcissist self-important view. This is the type of personality that responds to over-the-top statements put out by the talking heads on TV.
[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 01-08-2011).]
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07:38 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Giffords was among at least 10 people wounded, and the hospital said her outlook was optimistic as she was responding to commands from doctors despite having a bullet go through her head. The death toll included a 9-year-old girl, a federal judge, and a staffer for the Democratic congresswoman. ... Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22. Pima County Sheriff's officials said he used a 9 mm pistol to carry out the shooting spree. U.S. officials who provided his name to the AP spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release it publicly.
His exact motivation was not clear, but a former classmate described Loughner as a pot-smoking loner who had rambling beliefs about the world. Federal law enforcement officials were poring over versions of a MySpace page that belonged to Jared Loughner and over a Youtube video published weeks ago under an account "Classitup10" and linked to him. The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by officials, included a mysterious "Goodbye friends" message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to "Please don't be mad at me."
In one of several Youtube videos, which featured text against a dark background, Loughner described inventing a new U.S. currency and complained about the illiteracy rate among people living in Giffords' congressional district in Arizona.
"I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People," Loughner wrote. "Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen (sic)."
U.S. District Judge John Roll was one of the dead. Giffords had worked with him in the past to line up funding to build a new courthouse in Yuma, and Obama hailed him for his nearly 40 years of service as a judge.
Giffords spokesman C.J. Karamargin said three Giffords staffers were shot in the attack. One died, and the other two are expected to survive. Gabe Zimmerman, a former social worker who served as Giffords' director of community outreach, died.
I don't see any 'liberal' slant here. Someone is seeing creating boogeymen. This killer is more like Timothy McVeigh with his dystopian views and narcissist self-important view. This is the type of personality that responds to over-the-top statements put out by the talking heads on TV.
The "Liberals" I was referring to are the ones on here taking the opportunity to use this tragedy for their own humor, not the shooter.
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07:40 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
The "Liberals" I was referring to are the ones on here taking the opportunity to use this tragedy for their own humor, not the shooter.
hmmm, I just see inappropriate comments in a thread of an emerging story, if we are to agree that those who are most guilty of insensitive posts happen to be 'liberal' - okay - but I seriously doubt that it represents a 'liberal' mentality. Just seems a little provocative. I suppose someone could start similar accusations about comments regarding the harming of the Commander-in-Chief - or the disrespect of the individual branches of government because they are occupied by the majority of the party someone disagrees with... and all of O/T will end up in the Trash Can.
Every time someone points a finger, three more are pointing back.
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07:49 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.
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07:49 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.
Next paragraph: '"I don't see the connection," between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday's shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly's spokesman. "I don't know this person, we cannot find any records that he was associated with the campaign in any way. I just don't see the connection.
"Arizona is a state where people are firearms owners — this was just a deranged individual," Ellinwood said.'
Although there is this - and this sort of rhetoric is never good -
'Giffords' Tucson office was vandalized a few hours after the House voted to approve the health care law in March, with someone either kicking or shooting out a glass door and window. In an interview after the vandalism, Giffords referred to the animosity against her by conservatives. Palin listed Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections because of the lawmakers' support for the health care law.
"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.'
So, let's not assert that the imagery is lost on the impressionable.
[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 01-08-2011).]
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07:58 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
A woman named Caitie Parker has been tweeting that she went to school with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' alleged shooter Jared Loughner and that he had met Giffords previously. Also," he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class" and "As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."
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Any other brilliant statements to make, Neptune, or have you finished stepping in s*** AGAIN?
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07:59 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by USFiero: Next paragraph: '"I don't see the connection," between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday's shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly's spokesman. "I don't know this person, we cannot find any records that he was associated with the campaign in any way. I just don't see the connection.
Right. But the author of the article seemed to think it was a good idea to link her Republican challenger and firearms for no apparent reason, and with no bearing on incident. The quote you posted is from a spokesperson of her challenger in the last election, questioning the relevance.
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08:01 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Originally posted by fierobear: The quote you posted is from a spokesperson of her challenger in the last election, questioning the relevance.
yeah, I don't think you'd get that type of counterpoint from FOX. I think the response is appropriate, he is just deranged. Not 'left' or 'right' or even 'radical.' Just insane, looking for a high-value target to appease his inner demigod.
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08:06 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
A 22-year-old woman in Arizona, Caitie Parker, claimed on her Twitter feed that she went to high school and college with the gunman, and was in a band with him. She described his politics in the past as "left wing, quite liberal, & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy." She also described him as having a lot of friends "until he got alcohol poisoning in '06" and dropped out of school. "Mainly loner very philosophical."
Parker described the gunman meeting Rep. Gabrielle Giffords previously: "He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was 'stupid & unintelligent.'"
Sounds like a Liberal to me Madcurl, so OT goes on as normal.
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08:07 PM
Finally_Mine_86_GT Member
Posts: 4809 From: Hyde Park, New York Registered: Sep 2006
You know, I hate the fact that this event happened. But I also dislike it when people elevate a member of Congress above those who were caught up in the horrific event and that either lost their lives or were wounded as if Gabrielle Gifford's condition status was more important than the others.
The sad thing is that this will turn political for sure.
I can't agree more but probably for a different reason. Flame me if you want, and no I'm not a nut job that would do anything like this but... I personally can care less about the law makers. It's the collateral damage i think the guy should fry for. I have zero respect for ANY politician. NY politicians should have been the target during one of their pointless daily meetings, about how much their raises should be and how much more they need to tax to get it. but i digress.
If your that mad and that crazy then just assassinate, don't shoot innocents. Shooting even in the general direction of a child should get you castrated, slowly skinned alive and quartered. I hope he fries.
Madcurl: funny joke, i got it. Just bad timing. Once this hit page 3 you might have been able to get away with it. People should just drop it and continue with the real story here.
Let the flaming begin.
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08:09 PM
PFF
System Bot
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
by default, since this was an attack on a member of congress it is a political act, and possibly politically motivated. this is a natural consequence of the heated rhetoric and violent metaphor we as a society have become inured to, prone to, even accepting of.
there are members on this forum who openly advocate violence toward those of different political, ethnic and "lifestyle" leanings. we permit this sort of thing to happen by our tolerance of, and acceptance of this sort of advocation of violence. why cliff permits it to happen on his forum eludes me. i can't believe it's laziness or indifference, but given the experience of the dutch on the Dam Square in 1944 the "freedom of speech" argument rings a bit hollow.
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 01-08-2011).]
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08:12 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27104 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
yeah, I don't think you'd get that type of counterpoint from FOX. I think the response is appropriate, he is just deranged. Not 'left' or 'right' or even 'radical.' Just insane, looking for a high-value target to appease his inner demigod.
You can read the Fox News article here. They mention some politics, but I don't see anything overtly partisan.
A local Fox affiliate KFYI (radio) is now reporting that law enforcement is seeking a second suspect, a man in his fifties. The only internet story I can find on this is from the first source (NPR) to erroneous report the congresswoman's passing. Take it for what it is worth. http://www.azpm.org/news/st...n-did-not-act-alone/
This is somewhat disturbing, the "cross hairs"... and the "help us prescribe a solution"...
She commented on that subject in an interview. She did not appreciate Sarah Palin's crosshairs and said that some "nutcase" could interpret them wrong. Well, I guess she was correct.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-08-2011).]
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10:48 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
"I can't trust the current government because of fabrications," Loughner wrote in a YouTube slide presentation. "The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar."
Evidently, he's the grammar police posterchild too.
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11:31 PM
TiredGXP Member
Posts: 712 From: A cold, miserable place Registered: Jan 2008
Here's a nice quote from the local sheriff: (from the Globe and Mail)
Sheriff Dupnik pointed to the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country as he denounced the shooting that claimed several of his friends as victims, including Judge Roll. The judge celebrated mass on Saturday morning like he does every day before stopping by to say hello to his good friend Ms. Giffords.
“When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous,” the sheriff said. “And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”
Lets start a list of who he may be referring to: 1.) Glen Beck
The joke was related to the O/T section, not towards the person who was shot. 
