quote Originally posted by TiredGXP: Here's a nice quote from the local sheriff: (from the Globe and Mail) Lets start a list of who he may be referring to: 1.) Glen Beck

Is this list only to contain folks on the right?

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Is this list only to contain folks on the right?

No, feel free to add anyone you believe fits the sheriff's description

Maybe he is talking about the new media in general. Take a look at a typical story:

Obama targets Republicans on reform

Notice the language "Obama targets" and "U.S. President Obama launches broad attack against Republicans" used to describe the article and in the video "Democrats are battling" "Obama is seeking to marshal public anger".

The language of war is routinely used to describe political conflicts. Targeting someone for something is an expression often used and only taken literally by deranged persons.

Edit: But since the sheriff is talking about Arizona in particular, he probably has Russell Pearce in mind.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 01-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: This is somewhat disturbing, the "cross hairs"... and the "help us prescribe a solution"...

Are you freaking serious? Really, ryan?

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: She commented on that subject in an interview. She did not appreciate Sarah Palin's crosshairs and said that some "nutcase" could interpret them wrong. Well, I guess she was correct.

Amazing. Got a link?

quote Originally posted by TiredGXP: No, feel free to add anyone you believe fits the sheriff's description

Well this sheriff is an open borders liberal who said he would not enforce the law.
So for him to take this moment to push his agenda is about as sick as the guy who did the shooting.

Its a shame there are idiots in the world, its also a shame that this will power the next attempted gun grab.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: This is somewhat disturbing, the "cross hairs"... and the "help us prescribe a solution"... Hell, even her twitter account is disturbing: http://twitter.com/SarahPal...A/status/10935548053 crosspost:

quote Originally posted byMSNBC television network: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/...ooting_congresswoman In an interview last year with the MSNBC television network, Giffords cited a map of electoral targets put out by former Alaska Republican Governor and prominent conservative Sarah Palin, each one marked by the crosshairs of a rifle sight. "When people do that, they've got to realize that there's consequences to that action," Giffords told MSNBC.

-Palin quickly condemned the shootings on Saturday and offered condolences to the victims.


All that **** and reload crap has come back to bite her and the beloved followers.

Sarah Palin's campaign was in poor taste, but to expect an adult to murder a representative because of it, is insane. Sarah Palin did not contribute to this. If her ads caused this, every bill board on the highway would have caused this man to go broke.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: All that **** and reload crap has come back to bite her and the beloved followers.

You're full of s***, curl. You REALLY believe she meant people should shoot each other over politics?

Go ahead, keep digging yourself deeper in that hole.

Interesting facts about Rep. Gabrielle Gifford

Although Giffords is a Democrat, she's a former Republican and self-described moderate who isn't afraid to mix it up with members of her own party.

Last year, she criticized the Obama administration for suing Arizona over its controversial law cracking down on illegal immigrants. She also assailed Obama for not sending more National Guard troops and Border Patrol agents to the Mexican border after the killing of a prominent southeast Arizona rancher.

Giffords was one of 19 Democrats this week who didn't vote for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi as speaker, after voters returned control of the House to Republicans in November's midterm elections.

Like the crosshairs don't represent "actually shooting" these representatives. Whether it represents "take back" or "take out" it's just plain tacky.

To me this senseless shooting is not a suprise. I've seen it coming the past few years with all the extremism and A LOT of it has been going on. When people use rhetoric like Sarah Palin eventually some nutbar, like her, will be inspired to carry something like this out.

[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 01-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: She commented on that subject in an interview. She did not appreciate Sarah Palin's crosshairs and said that some "nutcase" could interpret them wrong. Well, I guess she was correct.

It seems that the woods deserts are full of nutcases;
Last August, Giffords aides called the police after a man dropped a gun at a similar town hall style event at a Safeway.
In April, Giffords supported Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) after he had to close two offices, including one in Tucson, when he and his staff received threats following his call for a boycott of Arizona businesses in opposition to the state’s controversial immigration law.
(from The Hill)

The sheriff said this on Saturday, according to ABC News:

“The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And unfortunately Arizona I think is the capital. We are the Mecca for prejudice, for prejudice and bigotry,”

Remember Judge John Roll, the one who was killed?
In 2009, Judge Roll faced death threats after presiding over a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit. The lawsuit was filed by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher. After Judge Roll ruled that the case would be certified, threats came from talk-radio shows which fueled controversy and spurred audiences into making threats against the judge.

After one radio talk show, Judge Roll's name logged more than 200 phone calls as some callers threatened the judge and his family. This resulted in the judge and his wife being placed under a full-time protective detail for one month.

When Asked on Saturday by the New York Post whether his daughter had any enemies, Giffords's father replied:
"The whole tea party."


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[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 01-09-2011).]

Lets examine the facts and the media spin surrounding the primary suspect, Jared Loughner.

The videos posted by self described terrorist Loughner feature flag burning and rants against law enforcement and our economic system. These are all positions and tactics generally characterized as left leaning.

I read several articles that claimed Loughner railed against those who do not speak English. The fact is that his complaint was regarding the improper use of grammar and syntax by native English speakers.
Many articles claimed he had a military background. The truth is that although he attempted to enlist, he was rejected. These purposely misleading insinuations by some media sources are irresponsible at best, and could be characterized as political activism.

The fact is that he is simply a deranged individual who, not unlike a few posters here, took pleasure in inciting and provoking people.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-09-2011).]

The spin in this thread is ridiculous. Finger pointing, accusations and insults, while the truth is, this guy is emotionally unstable.

How about letting the investigating authorities do their job and then we might be able to come to some conclusions. Pina County Sheriff Dupnik seems to have his own agenda so, his opinion doesn't have much credability IMO.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-09-2011).]

Ron, when you recieve the shellacking they did at the polls last Nov, you have to understand, they are going to grab at any straw they can, especially after spending a year describing the Tea Party as a right wing fringe movement that would never amount to much at all.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It's disturbing no matter what the shooter's motivations were. I hope he's prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Amen!

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Sarah Palin's campaign was in poor taste, but to expect an adult to murder a representative because of it, is insane.

I agree.

But when you have a person who is insane, things like crosshairs can be taken literally. I think the moral of this story is to stop inciting hatred.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Its a shame there are idiots in the world, its also a shame that this will power the next attempted gun grab.

Like the attempted assassination of Reagan did, when Brady was injured.

I was trying to stay away from that angle myself in my comments yesterday so as not to diminish the suffering of the families in this terrible event, but i agree it will be turned into a political gun grab event by the media.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I agree. But when you have a person who is insane, things like crosshairs can be taken literally. I think the moral of this story is to stop inciting hatred.

HALLELUJAH Brother!!!! But then that would require both sides to back down and I don't see the Libs backing up even after the butt whipping they took in Novermber. There is something to be learned from just about everything. And, no I am not advocating anything with this post.

Works both ways. But, this is off topic and I don't believe for a minute this guy was incited to shoot anyone based on Sarah Palin's comments. But, I do think there is a growing significant anti-government movement in this country that could have effected his train of thought. There is no doubt, he is unstable, sane folks don't do things like this.

Ron

This isn't about the Tea Party, Republican Party, DemocratIC Party or any other. It's a matter of tone and civility in our political discourse and our general interaction with those who may hold a differing POV. Words have CONSEQUENCES, actions precipitate REACTIONS and how we articulate our positions does have an impact on those on the fringes of our society who are more likely to take the inflammatory rhetoric seriously. I would like to think the average person did not see, for example, Sarah Palin's "reload" campaign or Angle's "2nd Amendment solutions" statements as a call to arms but then again the "average" person is not likely to shoot a politician in the head on broad daylight. For another example, Obama is the most threatened president in American history. According to the US Secret Service, assassination threats against Obama rose by as much as 400 percent compared with when President Bush was in office. Considering the degree and the pure nature of the vitriol directed at this president, that figure shouldn't come as a surprise. Fanning the flames of discontent has become a multi-million dollar business for some who hold the public ear in one manner or another. I'm anxious to hear the statements made by those employed as political pundits in the media (particularly on radio) this week in light of yesterday's events to see if the situation remains "business as usual."

This isn't about gun rights either. Someone said previously (I truly hope in a distorted attempt at humor) that this may not have occurred if the Representative was herself armed or if those in the crowd were themselves armed. That's ludicrous. If having weaponry around was a mitigating factor, John Hinkley wouldn't have shot Ronald Reagan in the midst of a Secret Service detail. We have portrayed our politicians ON BOTH SIDES as the very things we as a nation have fought wars to eradicate....Nazis, Fascists, Terrorists, the ANTICHRIST, for Pete's sake! Anyone with a sense of the impressionable nature of some members of our "lunatic fringe" should find it hard not to understand how such rhetoric would cause some nut to try to rid the country of what we've declared as an enemy throughout American history. I lifted this from a Newsmax article..."Healthcare reform is important. But civility and decency are even more important. Our democracy cannot survive without them. Sticks and stones are not the only things that hurt. Names hurt, too. We will end up not just hating our presidents, but hating each other." There are those among us who are obviously influenced by things that most of us would allow to slide off our backs. As one extreme example, John Lennon was murdered by Mark David Chapman who said he was compelled to kill him after reading "The Catcher In The Rye" by J.D. Salinger.

I would respectfully suggest that we, ALL OF US, dial back the political aspect of this event in Arizona until all of the facts are evident. We don't yet know if his motivation was based on his political ideology or simply on the basis of his being a garden variety unhinged individual. Having said that, if ever there was a "learning moment" in recent political history, this is certainly one.

Hopefully, it won't prove to be the proverbial canary in the coalmine.

Boy, that woman just cannot get away from the guns:

quote During his campaign to unseat Giffords, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held events where he urged supporters to help remove the Democrat from office by joining him to shoot a loaded M-16 rifle.

The twisting of this tragedy should not come as a suprise to me, I'm not sure what to say at this point. I guess disappointment is the best word to describe my feelings about some of the responses.
I expect it from the news media and politicians who twist and spin every event to fit their agenda, but come on guys!

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Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I agree. But when you have a person who is insane, things like crosshairs can be taken literally. I think the moral of this story is to stop inciting hatred.

Should probably ban violence on TV, in lyrics of music, and alot of video games too, if we are altering our behavior around what a nutcase will do, I'm not sure where it would end.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I hope you're joking, but if that is true-the O/T section is destroyed, hehe.

You have every right to say that. Just as I can say with certainty that if a black politician was even NickD by a bullet, every homeboy in Inglewood would be looting a new tv set right now.

It's racist because I'm white, and because I'm right.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Should probably ban violence on TV, in lyrics of music, and alot of video games too, if we are altering our behavior around what a nutcase will do, I'm not sure where it would end.

I think the key is to alter our behavior when it comes to Politicians who are really in the public eye.....not censor TV, music, and video games. Hell, I guarantee that if I posted a picture of crosshairs on Obama, I would be getting a visit from a few people within a few hours of posting so why is Palin allowed to do it?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Should probably ban violence on TV, in lyrics of music, and alot of video games too, if we are altering our behavior around what a nutcase will do, I'm not sure where it would end.

Respectfully, I don't know if I'd consider that a valid parallel. While I don't doubt that there are folks out there who think they're supposed to drive like Grand Theft Auto, handle our internal affairs like Jack Bauer, do drugs like Lindsey Lohan or converse like 50 Cent, it's not popular culture that's at issue here. Those types of examples don't get chosen by their respective communities to represent them in our government or enact legislation that directly impacts their lives on a daily basis. Our "leaders" and our "entertainment" are, IMHO, two totally different animals with two distinct spheres of influence.

Perhaps I'm being Utopian in my view but I would like to think the average person can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: I think the key is to alter our behavior when it comes to Politicians who are really in the public eye.....not censor TV, music, and video games. Hell, I guarantee that if I posted a picture of crosshairs on Obama, I would be getting a visit from a few people within a few hours of posting so why is Palin allowed to do it?

So your answer would be to NOT censor entertainment media and speech but to censor political speech and media?

The idea of changing the way we operate or live because of one whacko that was bound to come unhinged at some point is absolutely rediculous.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Perhaps I'm being Utopian in my view but I would like to think the average person can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

Exactly, we should not be catering what we do around what a nutjob might do. But in relation to a resonable person. That's just my point anyway.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: I think the key is to alter our behavior when it comes to Politicians who are really in the public eye.....not censor TV, music, and video games. Hell, I guarantee that if I posted a picture of crosshairs on Obama, I would be getting a visit from a few people within a few hours of posting so why is Palin allowed to do it?

Mind posting a link to where she placed a cross hair on a individuals face? What i saw was far different, and was symbolic only.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Respectfully, I don't know if I'd consider that a valid parallel. While I don't doubt that there are folks out there who think they're supposed to drive like Grand Theft Auto, handle our internal affairs like Jack Bauer, do drugs like Lindsey Lohan or converse like 50 Cent, it's not popular culture that's at issue here. Those types of examples don't get chosen by their respective communities to represent them in our government or enact legislation that directly impacts their lives on a daily basis. Our "leaders" and our "entertainment" are, IMHO, two totally different animals with two distinct spheres of influence. Perhaps I'm being Utopian in my view but I would like to think the average person can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

So it is your opinion that entertainment medi and celebritys have had no impact on politics?
Oprah had no impact on Obama's election, movies that trash the military and conservative values have had no effect on the youth of this country?
At this point I see very little distiction between the entertainment industry, news media, and political interests.

quote Originally posted by DRA: So your answer would be to NOT censor entertainment media and speech but to censor political speech and media? The idea of changing the way we operate or live because of one whacko that was bound to come unhinged at some point is absolutely rediculous.

There's a vast difference between a call for "censorship" as it were in political intercourse and a plea for civility and/or decorum in the same arena. If we've gotten to the point where the two are considered one in the same, we should all fear for the potential future of the democratic process.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 01-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by DRA: So your answer would be to NOT censor entertainment media and speech but to censor political speech and media? The idea of changing the way we operate or live because of one whacko that was bound to come unhinged at some point is absolutely rediculous.

No.....I guess the term wouldn't be censor but there has to be SOME boundary on political speech just out of courtesy (which most politicians do not have). I think actual debates between politicians and stating an argument in a political commercial on TV is fine. It is when some politicians use crosshairs, homeless children, and other forms of really uncalled-for negative visual media to gain the upper hand that should be monitored. I'm not a political person so this is just my opinion. I PERSONALLY could care less what any of these people do but I just threw in my 2 cents.

quote Originally posted by DRA: So it is your opinion that entertainment media and celebrities have had no impact on politics?

No, that isn't my opinion. It is, however, drawing a distinction between the degree of influence held by popular culture and that held by our elected officials. While I don't disagree that the media has an influence of a sort, I wouldn't send Oprah to Washington to represent my interests. I would add, however, that there are those in the media who have positioned themselves as spokespersons for a specific political ideology and that's where the lines get quite blurred, in my opinion.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: When Asked on Saturday by the New York Post whether his daughter had any enemies, Giffords's father replied: "The whole tea party."

And, of course, you BELIEVE that.

Anything anti-conservative, you're there. Gawd, you're such a sucker and partisan hack.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: When Asked on Saturday by the New York Post whether his daughter had any enemies, Giffords's father replied: "The whole tea party."

quote Originally posted by fierobear: And, of course, you BELIEVE that.

I think the appropriate question should be "Why does her FATHER believe that?" If we can answer that, we're getting closer to the crux of the problem. And, with all due respect, before you climb on your horse and gallop to the rescue, I'm not attacking the Tea Party. I am, however, addressing the general atmosphere of vitriol that's inherent in our political process at present.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 01-09-2011).]