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Lopsided chops? by jmbishop
Started on: 08-27-2008 12:19 AM
Replies: 1023 (16917 views)
Last post by: Cliff Pennock on 11-08-2008 08:55 PM
DL10
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Report this Post10-27-2008 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DL10Click Here to visit DL10's HomePageClick Here to Email DL10Send a Private Message to DL10Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:

This is not a court room, if it was the case would be closed.


You're right........it would be closed and you would have lost because you have not shown any proof, just lots of allegations
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Report this Post10-27-2008 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DL10Click Here to visit DL10's HomePageClick Here to Email DL10Send a Private Message to DL10Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:

Now which is lopsided the engine or the brace?


I thought we all agreed on page 1 that you can't tell if anything is lopsided by looking at a picture. You were even told why you couldn’t tell anything

 
quote
Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:

I don’t think this is your purpose, but Its completely irrelevant to do anything to a low rez picture like that, on top of everything else, if the camera was not at exactly 90* to the car, say it was at 80*, then the picture will look straight, but the object will appear shorter and smaller on the far side of the frame.

I haven’t been in this "other thread" but this sounds to me like little more than someone trying to start crap about someone else’s work for no reason, and unless you have done better yourself, you don’t even have any room to comment, not unless you sit a can of pop on the roof and it slides off to the side.

If you have to break out a protractor and micrometer to figure out if its wrong, its good enough.


So why do you keep posting a picture and keep asking what is lopsided?? Most likely it was the camera.

[This message has been edited by DL10 (edited 10-27-2008).]

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Report this Post10-27-2008 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jmbishopClick Here to Email jmbishopSend a Private Message to jmbishopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DL10:


You're right........it would be closed and you would have lost because you have not shown any proof, just lots of allegations


Wrong, we have already gone over this.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jmbishopClick Here to Email jmbishopSend a Private Message to jmbishopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DL10:


So why do you keep posting a picture and keep asking what is lopsided?? Most likely it was the camera.



Since its obvious you can't read I should make it clear that we are talking about Curly's car when we ask which is if its the "engine or brace" thats off. In this case the flaw is big enough to be seen at even low resolution. Take a look at the pictures, even one of the ones he posted in the thread clearly shows it. If your going to try to tell me that when viewing perspective that all parallel line do not intersect at the same point then you need to take a 3rd grade art class.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I've got to ask, is this the only way you can mount a 3800, by cutting that big hole in the cross-member support of the cradle??? Thanks something I'd want to know about before purchasing a 3800 SC Fiero.

I hope you realize that the cradle is a key structural member of the Fiero, not just an engine trans/mount point. You might be a little concerned since you popping in a V8 with more HP/Torque.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


I'm sorry numb-nuts, but you've haven't addressed your "lop-sided choptop allegations regarding Will-Martin's chop top nor any of the 24 chop tops made by Archie. Please get your documents in order. You're holding-up the court room.


But dipshit--We are now talking about your car being flawed since you kept wanting to bring up my engine being installed crooked. You are the one that got off on another subject about motors being installed in crooked. But now that someone post pictures of your car having either the motor installed high on one side or the cross brace in the back being off, you wanna resort back to talking about the choptop.

I call that the TUCK and RUN method.
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MstangsBware

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quote
Originally posted by California Kid:



I've got to ask, is this the only way you can mount a 3800, by cutting that big hole in the cross-member support of the cradle??? Thanks something I'd want to know about before purchasing a 3800 SC Fiero.

I hope you realize that the cradle is a key structural member of the Fiero, not just an engine trans/mount point. You might be a little concerned since you popping in a V8 with more HP/Torque.



You are kidding me right? That all I have to say on that one. This really proves to me and anyone else reading this thread that you have no clue. Thanks.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:

I've got to ask, is this the only way you can mount a 3800, by cutting that big hole in the cross-member support of the cradle??? Thanks something I'd want to know about before purchasing a 3800 SC Fiero.

I hope you realize that the cradle is a key structural member of the Fiero, not just an engine trans/mount point. You might be a little concerned since you popping in a V8 with more HP/Torque.


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Report this Post10-27-2008 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
You are kidding me right? That all I have to say on that one. This really proves to me and anyone else reading this thread that you have no clue. Thanks.


A. You didn't answer my question.

B. I take by your comments that you don't believe the cradle is a "structural member" , that not only supports the engine/transmission, but also is the backbone of the rear suspension. Guess I'm really full of $hit.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:


A. You didn't answer my question.

B. I take by your comments that you don't believe the cradle is a "structural member" , that not only supports the engine/transmission, but also is the backbone of the rear suspension. Guess I'm really full of $hit.



LOL--Keep it coming!!!!
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Report this Post10-27-2008 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Curly & Cali I still don't see what the tiff is about that cradle? Please elaborate.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ROFL!! I'm with MstangsBware on this one. HILARIOUS! I'm not going to be the one to break it to him (Cali)....
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p8ntman442
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I did my mount the same way, and im only running a 2.8

In fact I do that mount the same way on all fiero swaps I do. The trunk is plenty of structure for the back of the car, the cradle is basically so you can mount things to.

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Report this Post10-27-2008 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I posted a comment in his thread in "General" on same subject, you can look at it as a partial retraction. On the other hand, any modifications to the cradle must not be taken lightly, it receives load forces from torque induced by the power train, and lower rear suspension. Even "stock" cradle are known to torque flex under heavy cornering.
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p8ntman442
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Report this Post10-27-2008 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for p8ntman442Click Here to visit p8ntman442's HomePageClick Here to Email p8ntman442Send a Private Message to p8ntman442Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
how much tq does your current setup produce?
How much HP?

Show me one fiero cradle that twisted (past yield) under load!

[This message has been edited by p8ntman442 (edited 10-27-2008).]

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Report this Post10-27-2008 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Enough Generics Cali What do you see?
Is it the RED poly that's there, instead of a solid mount.
Curly what do you see that needed a circle to point it out? Even with the Circle I'm clueless.

[This message has been edited by DIY_Stu (edited 10-27-2008).]

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Report this Post10-27-2008 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iClick Here to Email Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:

I posted a comment in his thread in "General" on same subject, you can look at it as a partial retraction. On the other hand, any modifications to the cradle must not be taken lightly, it receives load forces from torque induced by the power train, and lower rear suspension. Even "stock" cradle are known to torque flex under heavy cornering.


Saved. This is classic!
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Report this Post10-27-2008 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by p8ntman442:

how much tq does your current setup produce?
How much HP?

Show me one fiero cradle that twisted (past yield) under load!



To you first two questions, I don't know yet, car is still in shop (engine builder put in valve springs that were either wrongly packaged, or his guy put in the wrong lb force springs - way off - we never could get a good tune on the engine) Secondly, as I posted in my build thread, I will not post the number's for people to pick at. Third, are you Shaunbag's messenger boy from RFT? He posted earlier he wanted someone to ask those exact same questions.

To the last part of you post, here you go, took about 1 minute to find one (there are more):







Not my cradle, mine is heavily modified. I never anything about cradle's being twisted visibly, just that they do flex, and can cause issues like those shown above when subjected to extremes past original design intent. If you're going to modify it there's alot to think about. Heck, I've heard of cracked cradle in stock 4 and 6's just due to age. If there is a stress riser point, or a bad weld it's going to happen as well.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

California Kid

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quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:


Is it the RED poly that's there, instead of a solid mount.




My car was modified with solid mounts way back in 1993, have never had an issue, or a repair needed.

You guys are too much, I'm outa here.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-27-2008).]

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Report this Post10-27-2008 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:

Curly & Cali I still don't see what the tiff is about that cradle? Please elaborate.


This is what I am waiting on!!!!

I can't figure out what is wrong with my cradle. I mean it is a stock cradle from an 88 that I have added a poly trans mount to. The poly mount was added in the stock location with no other modifications done to the cradle.
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MstangsBware

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quote
Originally posted by California Kid:


My car was modified with solid mounts way back in 1993, have never had an issue, or a repair needed.

You guys are too much, I'm outa here.




I would leave and not come back also if I made comments that showed I had no clue about what I was talking about. I figured your new motor swap was still in the shop and would no be running right for a long time. I think myself and several others called this back when you first started your Thread on the swap. With 30 years of GM experinace you think you could figure out the problem yourself and fix it but with the comment you made about the cradle, I see why you can't.
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Report this Post10-27-2008 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
I would leave and not come back also if I made comments that showed I had no clue about what I was talking about. I figured your new motor swap was still in the shop and would no be running right for a long time. I think myself and several others called this back when you first started your Thread on the swap. With 30 years of GM experinace you think you could figure out the problem yourself and fix it but with the comment you made about the cradle, I see why you can't.


Well that's the difference between you and me. My car isn't an assembled junk yard-back yard special, I contacted a firm to build an engine for me, they didn't do it right, so they're fixing it at their cost and labor. Why the hell should I do all the diagnosis, and tear the engine down to replace the springs!!!
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Report this Post10-27-2008 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChumpClick Here to visit Chump's HomePageClick Here to Email ChumpSend a Private Message to ChumpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like turtles!
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Report this Post10-27-2008 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sound like that might be Tina's Cradle.... Nope not the right color... Maybe Carbon Fiber Kids.... or mmiller's, or many other 88 owners. The problem is when beating on the car you stress that area. You stress it even more when the dogbone is loose or missing. But what you don't realize is when you reinforce that area you do it under the area. I didn't think there was a mirror in that picture but you may have a 3D monitor that many of us don't have... Oh but then you would have seen them...

[This message has been edited by DIY_Stu (edited 10-27-2008).]

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Report this Post10-27-2008 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BremertonfieroClick Here to Email BremertonfieroSend a Private Message to BremertonfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
hummmm how to enter this and comeout clean.
i do alot of welding and modification of structual steel members on cars.
you need to know where the stress is in somthing like a engine cradle an how much meterial is there to take that wheight
the example that was used when it was taught to me was if you suport the needle at the top of the space needle with a plastic fork it might not brake where as if you suport the bottem with a fork chances are its not gunna last but if you suport it with a million forks it will
case in point know where your load is and how much it is
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Report this Post10-27-2008 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:


Well that's the difference between you and me. My car isn't an assembled junk yard-back yard special, I contacted a firm to build an engine for me, they didn't do it right, so they're fixing it at their cost and labor. Why the hell should I do all the diagnosis, and tear the engine down to replace the springs!!!


The differance between my car and yours is mine is faster hands down and always will be. No matter who you get to build your car, what valve covers you put on it or what HP claims you make, it will always be slower. Your car may look better hands down but that is not the route I choose to take with my car at this point so you do have me beat there. But for $1500 more I can have a nice paint job which will put my car not only faster but looking better than yours. And at that point I will still have a 1/4 of what you have invested in your slow azz V-8 that puts down 300 HP if you are lucky.

So what do you see wrong that I have done with my stock non cut 88 cradle? You do know the differance between an 88 cradle and a Pre-88 cradle right?
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Bremertonfiero
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Report this Post10-28-2008 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BremertonfieroClick Here to Email BremertonfieroSend a Private Message to BremertonfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
cali how much did that set you back?
and the sme question to you mustang?
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Report this Post10-28-2008 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFClick Here to Email Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:


Third, are you Shaunbag's messenger boy from RFT? He posted earlier he wanted someone to ask those exact same questions.



Yes, Cali. Mstangs is Shaunna's little nutswinger.
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Report this Post10-28-2008 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:


Yes, Cali. Mstangs is Shaunna's little nutswinger.



Mr. Nutswinger to you......
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Hulki U. My-BFF
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quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
Mr. Nutswinger to you......


Mr.? Not yet. Maybe if you ask Daddy Hammit nicely, someday he'll make you a real boy. But for now, you'll just have to settle with being his puppet, and having his hand up your azz to make you talk.
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Report this Post10-28-2008 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:

Sound like that might be Tina's Cradle.... Nope not the right color... Maybe Carbon Fiber Kids.... or mmiller's, or many other 88 owners.


That red cradle is not an 88 cradle dude. Look at the rear crossmember and the suspension pickup points and the fact that it has A-arms...
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Report this Post10-28-2008 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well Tina's isn't an 88 either so you can still get my point. So so far I've seen anyone with POWER that hasn't reinforced the cradle has cracked it. And since Cali hasn't had any problems with his, well....... You get the drift.
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Report this Post10-28-2008 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No doudt any cradle will crack once enough power is aplied to it along with some torque.

But that is not the topic at hand--The topic is Cali-Kid not knowing what a 88 cradle looks like in stock form or any form for that matter.

30 years of Gm experinace shows itself!!!!!!!

I did know a guy that retired from GM after 35 years that was a maintanace Tech. I thought man this guy must really know his way around the GM line of cars/trucks/ect after working for them all that years. Come to find out he was a janitor for GM for 35 years and that his offical title was Maintance Tech.--Maybe that is Cali_Kids case also, that would explain alot.
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Report this Post10-28-2008 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iClick Here to Email Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Well Tina's isn't an 88 either so you can still get my point. So so far I've seen anyone with POWER that hasn't reinforced the cradle has cracked it. And since Cali hasn't had any problems with his, well....... You get the drift.


What... are.. you.. talking about! Matt Hawkins, Jinxmutt, Purple Reign, FieroX, Amir, Souldcrusher, Lildevil, BillyBo455, all use non modified cradles (to the best of my knowledge) just to name a select few.... That still doen't mean Cali's car is decent, but I'm not buying the cradle part.
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Report this Post10-28-2008 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry I still had Hard Mounted V8's on my mind.

 
quote
Originally posted by Emc209i:


What... are.. you.. talking about! Matt Hawkins, Jinxmutt, Purple Reign, FieroX, Amir, Souldcrusher, Lildevil, BillyBo455, all use non modified cradles (to the best of my knowledge) just to name a select few.... That still doesn't mean Cali's car is decent, but I'm not buying the cradle part.


Matt Hawkins : Poly mounted 3.4 <- Not hard mounted
Puple Reign : poly mounted 3800SC <- Not Hard mounted
FieroX : Poly Mounted 3800 Turbo <- Not hard mounted
SoulCrusher: Poly Mounted 3800SC <- Not hard mounted
LilDevil : Poly Mounted 3800SC <- Not hard Mounted
BillyBo455 : Poly mounted 3800SC <- Not hard Mounted

Thanks for the list you gave me an extra point to make.
By adding a small amount of padding between your drive train and your cradle (chassis) keeps them from constantly flexing the mounting locations and causing cracks just from the dump truck shacking of the engine. So I guess you see what I mean. And before you or cali speak up and say well there's 2.8's with rubber mounts cracking their cradles too, you might want to do a check on if their dog bones are TIGHT and if all the other mounts are in good condition. One good hit is all it takes to pull the front trans mount apart in stock form. Then it's up to the motor mount to hold it all in place.

[This message has been edited by DIY_Stu (edited 10-28-2008).]

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madcurl
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Report this Post10-28-2008 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


CRICKETS?????


That's what I thought.


BEHOLD! RFT INSURGENT'S false god.



BEHOLD RFT new mascot
The monkey urine false god that RFT members mstangbware metaphically drinks from.


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DIY_Stu
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Report this Post10-28-2008 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dang another post wasted. Are you 48 yet?
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post10-28-2008 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

BEHOLD! RFT INSURGENT'S false god.



BEHOLD RFT new mascot
The monkey urine false god that RFT members mstangbware metaphically drinks from.




Nice comeback but still no answer to my questions. Like I said it is okay to admit your car isn't perfect in every way or even some ways. Give Ol' Kevin at DS1 a call and see if he can come fix that high sided engine for you. Or take it back to Archee so he can level out that cross brace in the rear for you.


Good to see that you have shown alot of people on the board what you are really like.

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Emc209i
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Report this Post10-28-2008 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iClick Here to Email Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

BEHOLD RFT new mascot
The monkey urine false god that RFT members mstangbware metaphically drinks from.



Way to act bro. There's much more of that going on here at this forum than I've ever seen at RFT.

 
quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:

Sorry I still had Hard Mounted V8's on my mind.


Ok, that makes more sense. I just read your post for what it said, you never mentioned hard mounting.
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Report this Post10-28-2008 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DIY_StuClick Here to visit DIY_Stu's HomePageSend a Private Message to DIY_StuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah my mistake on not saying that. With as hectic as yesterday was along with the last couple days I seem to not type everything I think out.
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